6696 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Saying the asari wouldn't have a preference for females based on evolution and what not is the same as saying humans wouldn't tend to have a preference for the opposite sex, and that humans are naturally all bisexual too, and not mainly heterosexual with a few homosexuals/bisexuals thrown in every so often.

In that case...GO ALL BISEXUAL LIS YEAH!

[Siansonea]

jlb524 wrote...

Mash Mashington wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

What twitter are you all talking about?

Blacklash93 wrote...

A tweet from Sr. Producer Jesse Houston:

"it's not just gay man shep it's also fem shep too! Liara isn't a girl!"

I don't agree about Liara, but going by that logic I'd say it's safe to say that the new f/f romance option won't be an Asari.

Well,

Liara is a woman.

Liara is an alien, a female alien, but still an alien. Women are female humans, generally speaking. This is what I believe Liara means when she tells Shepard "I'm not exactly a woman". She's an asari, and an asari has an entirely different experience than a human female. My two cents.

[jeweledleah]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Actually, quite the opposite. Saying that Asari(females) should not be interested in males and should be in other females IS supporting homosexuality, in that they should be with other females. I believe my speculations are somewhat educated, from the lore and the information about the species, and  dialog along the way through the series.
I am not the only one that has this viewpoint either.

and I have to ask you again - why would sex of their partner matter at all, when they are different species that look nothing alike? and in case of elcor/hanar - they are not even remotely humanoid.

Saying the asari wouldn't have a preference for females based on
evolution and what not is the same as saying humans wouldn't tend to
have a preference for the opposite sex, and that humans are naturally
all bisexual too, and not mainly heterosexual with a few
homosexuals/bisexuals thrown in every so often.

except asari have no concept of gender, being a monogendered species and all, and are capable of being atracted to/fall in love with species that look, act, etc NOTHING like asari, male or female.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 21 mai 2011 - 07:51 .

[CroGamer002]

Mr.House wrote...

Some asari would still date males, but majority should prefer asari or female humans, that's not the case in ME. We see the opposite and that's the issue that many people including me have. The asari as they are now, are fan service for males, which is a shame because they have alot of potential.

You do know that humans find out about Citadel 40 years ago while Asari with Salarians 2600 years ago?

That's a big time gap, even for Asari.



Also did you forget about Aria, Samara, random merc on Miranda's LM, Vasir and Liara's father?

[Siansonea]

I get the impression that asari aren't really influenced by the appearance of other species. Few asari remark about other people's appearance, the only thing I can think of is when Enyala calls out Miranda for her slatternly outfit.

[SennenScale]

jeweledleah wrote...

they don't have concept of gender.  and concidering that they mate and bond with species that don't even look humanoid - I tend to beleive the assertion that asari DO in fact judge atractiveness by mental compatibility, rather then visual one.

or to reiterate some of the arguments made her earlier defending s/s relationship with Garrus or Thane.  they are already alien.  how is gender more important then the fact that they are not even the same species (or in case of Garrus - DNA chirrality)

I do not mean as in gender. I mean attraction to female-looking bodies ought to be more common to them than a male body given the fact they evolved mating with each other.  Current situation is not impossible for obvious reasons given their biology and culture, I just was saying it's the opposite of what I'd expect to be the case.

Modifié par SennenScale, 21 mai 2011 - 07:59 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Actually, quite the opposite. Saying that Asari(females) should not be interested in males and should be in other females IS supporting homosexuality, in that they should be with other females. I believe my speculations are somewhat educated, from the lore and the information about the species, and  dialog along the way through the series.
I am not the only one that has this viewpoint either.

It  supports homosexuality yes,  that's not what's getting to me.  What you are suggesting though,  is essentially that Asari should only prefer to company of woman...  which sounds rather similiar to humans should only prefer to opposite sex.  Or does alternate sexuality bother you if it is outside what you consider normal?    You just sound a bit hypocritical.

[Black Raptor]

Asari take on a form that is appeasing to humans. They look different to Turians and Salarians. To them, human women do not look like Asari. 

Modifié par Black Raptor, 21 mai 2011 - 08:03 .

[Siansonea]

SennenScale wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

they don't have concept of gender.  and concidering that they mate and bond with species that don't even look humanoid - I tend to beleive the assertion that asari DO in fact judge atractiveness by mental compatibility, rather then visual one.

or to reiterate some of the arguments made her earlier defending s/s relationship with Garrus or Thane.  they are already alien.  how is gender more important then the fact that they are not even the same species (or in case of Garrus - DNA chirrality)

I do not mean as in gender. I mean attraction to female-looking bodies ought to be more common to them than a male body given the fact they evolved mating with each other.  Current situation is not impossible for obvious reasons given their biology and culture, I just was saying it's the opposite of what I'd expect to be the case.

It's not established that physical appearance is a major factor in an asari's attraction to a mate. While it is true of humans, we can't assume it's also true of asari.

[jeweledleah]

SennenScale wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

they don't have concept of gender.  and concidering that they mate and bond with species that don't even look humanoid - I tend to beleive the assertion that asari DO in fact judge atractiveness by mental compatibility, rather then visual one.

or to reiterate some of the arguments made her earlier defending s/s relationship with Garrus or Thane.  they are already alien.  how is gender more important then the fact that they are not even the same species (or in case of Garrus - DNA chirrality)

I do not mean as in gender. I mean attraction to female-looking bodies ought to be more common to them than a male body given the fact they evolved mating with each other.  Current situation is not impossible for obvious reasons given their biology and culture, I just was saying it's the opposite of what I'd expect to be the case.

I'm still not seeing it, mainly because you are equating looks with a specific sex.  for example - human males look a lot more similar to asari then krogan, or salarian, or turian females.  now if you had said that they should be atracted most to other asari - yes, I could see that.  its the familiar, the comfortable, biologicaly reasonable to be atracted to your own species.  but once you start concidering other species, especialy species that are so very different from you, gender of your potential partners kinda starts to lose its significance, you know.

this reasoning doens't just aply to human alien pairings, it applies even more so to asari/alien pairings, becasue at least humans unlike asari - do have a concept of gender.

[Siansonea]

Black Raptor wrote...

Asari take on a form that is appeasing to humans. They look different to Turians and Salarians. To them, human women do not look like Asari. 

This is anecdotal, and is also a misconstruction of overheard conversation in the game, the infamous "bachelor party" in the Eternity Bar. Many species find asari attractive, and they speculate that the asari have pheromones that heighten the effect of asari attractiveness, but no one really thinks that the asari are projecting some kind of illusion. If that were true, all the asari corpses seen in the game would look like something else entirely. It's just that turians, salarians, etc., focus on the asari attributes that are most similar to their own. If asari truly were projecting some kind of illusion, they would appear masculine to FemaleShepard and feminine to MaleShepard, wouldn't they?

[catabuca]

Siansonea II wrote...

Context would be good for this Jesse Houston tweet, I kind of recommend against Twitter rampages in general due to the oversimplified nature of the communication.

this is how i use twitter ... it's what i do ... i'm big enough and ugly enough to handle it

[Sunnie]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Actually, quite the opposite. Saying that Asari(females) should not be interested in males and should be in other females IS supporting homosexuality, in that they should be with other females. I believe my speculations are somewhat educated, from the lore and the information about the species, and  dialog along the way through the series.
I am not the only one that has this viewpoint either.

It  supports homosexuality yes,  that's not what's getting to me.  What you are suggesting though,  is essentially that Asari should only prefer to company of woman...  which sounds rather similiar to humans should only prefer to opposite sex.  Or does alternate sexuality bother you if it is outside what you consider normal?    You just sound a bit hypocritical.

I have trouble trying to figure out where you are getting that I am supporting heterosexuality. I was talking on a purely gender type role. Asari are monogender female. They should prefer prefer the company of other females, though I am not naive in that there should be just as many deviants as compared to humans. That would tend to put those supporting something as unnatural (to them) as human intercourse in the tiny majority. These are just my opinions and beliefs, some share them some don't, and thats ok. What I find rather offensive is that you think it's hypocritical, when in fact I am just discussing what I and others feel should be the norm for the species, not the current depiction which completely supports human heterosexuality.

[Siansonea]

catabuca wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Context would be good for this Jesse Houston tweet, I kind of recommend against Twitter rampages in general due to the oversimplified nature of the communication.

this is how i use twitter ... it's what i do ... i'm big enough and ugly enough to handle it

So what was the context of the tweet? What was it in reference to?

I always think of Twitter as overhearing half of a person's telephone conversation, sprinkled in with some random statements aimed at no one in particular. That's one reason I don't really use Twitter. 

[Black Raptor]

Siansonea II wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

Asari take on a form that is appeasing to humans. They look different to Turians and Salarians. To them, human women do not look like Asari. 

This is anecdotal, and is also a misconstruction of overheard conversation in the game, the infamous "bachelor party" in the Eternity Bar. Many species find asari attractive, and they speculate that the asari have pheromones that heighten the effect of asari attractiveness, but no one really thinks that the asari are projecting some kind of illusion. If that were true, all the asari corpses seen in the game would look like something else entirely. It's just that turians, salarians, etc., focus on the asari attributes that are most similar to their own. If asari truly were projecting some kind of illusion, they would appear masculine to FemaleShepard and feminine to MaleShepard, wouldn't they?

Asari wish to attract other species, so they look attractive to them. An Asari has already implanted a connection into your mind before you get to kill one so they still look the same after they're dead.

This is a subconsious act, so the Asari themselves have no control about the specifics of their looks. The fact they look female to all humans is because this action doesn't discriminate between genders so therefore they look the same to either. This is because Asari evolved on a world which didn't have genders, so any evolutionary path which makes them more attractive to other species wouldn't be able to discriminate one sex from another.  

Modifié par Black Raptor, 21 mai 2011 - 08:15 .

[Siansonea]

Sunnie22 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Actually, quite the opposite. Saying that Asari(females) should not be interested in males and should be in other females IS supporting homosexuality, in that they should be with other females. I believe my speculations are somewhat educated, from the lore and the information about the species, and  dialog along the way through the series.
I am not the only one that has this viewpoint either.

It  supports homosexuality yes,  that's not what's getting to me.  What you are suggesting though,  is essentially that Asari should only prefer to company of woman...  which sounds rather similiar to humans should only prefer to opposite sex.  Or does alternate sexuality bother you if it is outside what you consider normal?    You just sound a bit hypocritical.

I have trouble trying to figure out where you are getting that I am supporting heterosexuality. I was talking on a purely gender type role. Asari are monogender female. They should prefer prefer the company of other females, though I am not naive in that there should be just as many deviants as compared to humans. That would tend to put those supporting something as unnatural (to them) as human intercourse in the tiny majority. These are just my opinions and beliefs, some share them some don't, and thats ok. What I find rather offensive is that you think it's hypocritical, when in fact I am just discussing what I and others feel should be the norm for the species, not the current depiction which completely supports human heterosexuality.

It sounds like you're treating asari as if they're female humans, and while your statement would be logical for a human species without males, the asari are a completely different species and we don't know that they have the same thought process as humans would in the same situation. Given their natural biotics and their ability to merge nervous systems, I imagine that external appearance would be given much less consideration for an asari than it would for a human female. I can see that human females who prefer asari would do so for visual reasons, but I would not assume the reverse was true, because we don't know the mind and motives of the asari as well as we do humans'.

[catabuca]

Siansonea II wrote...

catabuca wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Context would be good for this Jesse Houston tweet, I kind of recommend against Twitter rampages in general due to the oversimplified nature of the communication.

this is how i use twitter ... it's what i do ... i'm big enough and ugly enough to handle it

So what was the context of the tweet? What was it in reference to?

I always think of Twitter as overhearing half of a person's telephone conversation, sprinkled in with some random statements aimed at no one in particular. That's one reason I don't really use Twitter. 

his tweet was in response to someone saying the ME team were off to a good start by allowing for a gay manshep ... that's the context.

i'm an old pro at twitter, i'm good at assessing context and so on, and i know when to wade in or not to ... i appreciate it's not the medium everyone likes to engage via, but i do just fine

[Siansonea]

Black Raptor wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

Asari take on a form that is appeasing to humans. They look different to Turians and Salarians. To them, human women do not look like Asari. 

This is anecdotal, and is also a misconstruction of overheard conversation in the game, the infamous "bachelor party" in the Eternity Bar. Many species find asari attractive, and they speculate that the asari have pheromones that heighten the effect of asari attractiveness, but no one really thinks that the asari are projecting some kind of illusion. If that were true, all the asari corpses seen in the game would look like something else entirely. It's just that turians, salarians, etc., focus on the asari attributes that are most similar to their own. If asari truly were projecting some kind of illusion, they would appear masculine to FemaleShepard and feminine to MaleShepard, wouldn't they?

Asari wish to attract other species, so they look attractive to them. An Asari has already implanted a connection into your mind before you get to kill one so they still look the same after they're dead.

This is a subconsious act, so the Asari themselves have no control about the specifics of their looks. The fact they look female to all humans is because this action doesn't discriminate between genders so therefore they look the same to either. This is because Asari evolved on a world which didn't have genders, so any evolutionary path which makes them more attractive to other species wouldn't be able to discriminate one sex from another.  

Where in the game does it say any of what you just said? You're stating all of this as if it were fact, and it's simply not.

[AngelicMachinery]

Sunnie22 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Actually, quite the opposite. Saying that Asari(females) should not be interested in males and should be in other females IS supporting homosexuality, in that they should be with other females. I believe my speculations are somewhat educated, from the lore and the information about the species, and  dialog along the way through the series.
I am not the only one that has this viewpoint either.

It  supports homosexuality yes,  that's not what's getting to me.  What you are suggesting though,  is essentially that Asari should only prefer to company of woman...  which sounds rather similiar to humans should only prefer to opposite sex.  Or does alternate sexuality bother you if it is outside what you consider normal?    You just sound a bit hypocritical.

I have trouble trying to figure out where you are getting that I am supporting heterosexuality. I was talking on a purely gender type role. Asari are monogender female. They should prefer prefer the company of other females, though I am not naive in that there should be just as many deviants as compared to humans. That would tend to put those supporting something as unnatural (to them) as human intercourse in the tiny majority. These are just my opinions and beliefs, some share them some don't, and thats ok. What I find rather offensive is that you think it's hypocritical, when in fact I am just discussing what I and others feel should be the norm for the species, not the current depiction which completely supports human heterosexuality.

I’m not suggesting your supporting heterosexuality.  I am suggesting that what you are saying is  rather similar to arguments used to discredit homosexuality.  I suspect if someone said similar things to you about gay or lesbian relationships you may in fact end up calling them out on it.  I’ll simplify it for you your entire argument is thus “Asari shouldn’t enjoy the company of men because it’s unnatural.”  which in my mind is rather similar to “Humans shouldn’t enjoy the company of the same sex because it is unnatural.” 

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 21 mai 2011 - 08:20 .

[Black Raptor]

Siansonea II wrote...
Where in the game does it say any of what you just said? You're stating all of this as if it were fact, and it's simply not.

Where in the game does it state that none of this is true? 

It is simply a resolution to the argument you guys are having as to why Asari don't favour women. 

[Siansonea]

catabuca wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

catabuca wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Context would be good for this Jesse Houston tweet, I kind of recommend against Twitter rampages in general due to the oversimplified nature of the communication.

this is how i use twitter ... it's what i do ... i'm big enough and ugly enough to handle it

So what was the context of the tweet? What was it in reference to?

I always think of Twitter as overhearing half of a person's telephone conversation, sprinkled in with some random statements aimed at no one in particular. That's one reason I don't really use Twitter. 

his tweet was in response to someone saying the ME team were off to a good start by allowing for a gay manshep ... that's the context.

i'm an old pro at twitter, i'm good at assessing context and so on, and i know when to wade in or not to ... i appreciate it's not the medium everyone likes to engage via, but i do just fine

Well, while he is wrong to say that asari aren't "girls" (dude...), maybe he was trying to say that the f/f options wouldn't be limited to asari, but rather include fully-realized f/f human pairings. It's so hard for me to tell with Twitter.  

Has he responded since the initial tweet?

[CroGamer002]

Mash Mashington wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Also did you forget about Aria, Samara, random merc on Miranda's LM, Vasir and Liara's father?

what about them?

They don't look blatant fan service for males to me.

[Maugrim]

Siansonea II wrote...

catabuca wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Context would be good for this Jesse Houston tweet, I kind of recommend against Twitter rampages in general due to the oversimplified nature of the communication.

this is how i use twitter ... it's what i do ... i'm big enough and ugly enough to handle it

So what was the context of the tweet? What was it in reference to?

I always think of Twitter as overhearing half of a person's telephone conversation, sprinkled in with some random statements aimed at no one in particular. That's one reason I don't really use Twitter. 

I responded with this tweet "WTF My MShep is in a gay/genderqueer relationship with Liara?! I dont
think the straight male gamers are going to take this news well"

Shortly after that it seems the tweet was deleted, at the least I can't find it anymore.

[jeweledleah]

Sunnie22 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Actually, quite the opposite. Saying that Asari(females) should not be interested in males and should be in other females IS supporting homosexuality, in that they should be with other females. I believe my speculations are somewhat educated, from the lore and the information about the species, and  dialog along the way through the series.
I am not the only one that has this viewpoint either.

It  supports homosexuality yes,  that's not what's getting to me.  What you are suggesting though,  is essentially that Asari should only prefer to company of woman...  which sounds rather similiar to humans should only prefer to opposite sex.  Or does alternate sexuality bother you if it is outside what you consider normal?    You just sound a bit hypocritical.

I have trouble trying to figure out where you are getting that I am supporting heterosexuality. I was talking on a purely gender type role. Asari are monogender female. They should prefer prefer the company of other females, though I am not naive in that there should be just as many deviants as compared to humans. That would tend to put those supporting something as unnatural (to them) as human intercourse in the tiny majority. These are just my opinions and beliefs, some share them some don't, and thats ok. What I find rather offensive is that you think it's hypocritical, when in fact I am just discussing what I and others feel should be the norm for the species, not the current depiction which completely supports human heterosexuality.

I'm going to reuse yet another argument from before.  who said that asari would be enjoying/engaging in intercourse at all.  what do we know about sexual habits of Krogan, Turians, Salarians, Elcor, Volus and Hanar exactly  (not putting Raloi on that list as they are not in game and we kinda know even less about them then previously mentioned races)

if human males are capable of having fulfilling relationships with each other (or women)  without ever penetrating anything (yes, its possible), if asari are capable of having/inducing pleasure from "gentle melding of nervous systems" alone - why is intercourse specificaly such a requirement and a stumbling stone?  its not necessary. 

yes we see nudity and touching in ME1 love scene.  but where does it ever suggest that they went the traditional route of tab a into slot b?  all we know is that shepard asks liara to guide him/her.

why is atraction to alien females = normal, while alien males = deviancy?

edited to add - this

I’m not suggesting your supporting heterosexuality.  I am suggesting
that what you are saying is  rather similar to arguments used to
discredit homosexuality.  I suspect if someone said similar things to
you about gay or lesbian relationships you may in fact end up calling
them out on it.  I’ll simplify it for you your entire argument is thus
“Asari shouldn’t enjoy the company of men because it’s unnatural.” 
which in my mind is rather similar to “Humans shouldn’t enjoy the
company of the same sex because it is unnatural.” 

Modifié par jeweledleah, 21 mai 2011 - 08:22 .