6696 réponses à ce sujet

[JeffZero]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I admit it's kind of hard to. There's a response to his tripe that made me almost as angry but I'm not going to reply to it directly. Let's just... be civil.

Deep breathing helps, so does stretching from what I've found out.  From what I've seen, when someone's not really giving much for one to try and talk things out, as frustrating as it is, you're stuck with not being able to reason with them.  I like to believe that it's possible to talk anything out, and if need be crack out some coffee cake since people tend to open up more when food's involved.  

At this point I think cracking out a full seven course meal with really fancy dessert's not going to help.

Heheh, well said. Incidentally, I just stepped outside for a few moments and I already feel plenty relaxed. You're quite right on that.

Now I want coffee cake.

[Seboist]

One guy expresses his views and he's ganged up on. It's clear who's "hateful" and it isn't Extreme.

[Polliot]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I admit it's kind of hard to. There's a response to his tripe that made me almost as angry but I'm not going to reply to it directly. Let's just... be civil.

Deep breathing helps, so does stretching from what I've found out.  From what I've seen, when someone's not really giving much for one to try and talk things out, as frustrating as it is, you're stuck with not being able to reason with them.  I like to believe that it's possible to talk anything out, and if need be crack out some coffee cake since people tend to open up more when food's involved.  

At this point I think cracking out a full seven course meal with really fancy dessert's not going to help.

Same could be said for your side. But you can't expect someone to change their beliefs because of few posts.

[BrandNewMan]

Seboist wrote...

One guy expresses his views and he's ganged up on. It's clear who's "hateful" and it isn't Extreme.

Haha. Oh, that's funny.

[JeffZero]

Seboist wrote...

One guy expresses his views and he's ganged up on. It's clear who's "hateful" and it isn't Extreme.

Yo. It has nothing to do with the viewpoints from a broad perspective. Not for me, anyway. You'll notice I didn't actually say anything to him until that last post of his but that's going over the line. Such a ridiculously loathsome rant deserves to be criticized.

[M-Sinistrari]

BrandNewMan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

One guy expresses his views and he's ganged up on. It's clear who's "hateful" and it isn't Extreme.

Haha. Oh, that's funny.

It was only a matter of time before he showed up.  They migrate in pairs.

[Polliot]

Seboist wrote...

One guy expresses his views and he's ganged up on. It's clear who's "hateful" and it isn't Extreme.

I think he is,but he has every right to be. At least he is not a hypocrite like most of the people here. A lot of hateful people are here,they just don't realize it.

[Any_ILL]

I agree with ExtremeOne on one thing. It's his right to be disgusted by it. I mean, it's a free country, you can think absolutely whatever you want. He has the right to think that and I find offensive that he has to be persecuted for it (you too can think whatever you want though but I don't understand how your own intolerance to his intolerance is any different or better).

He would be going too far if he tries to limit other persons freedom. Yelling or complaining on a gay couple who kiss each other on the street is wrong. Finding it offensive is not, it's sad for him (because he's limiting himself, by example by preventing him from enjoying ME3 or be disgusted each time a gay couple kiss which will happen more and more in the following years) and irrationnal (but everyone is) but not wrong. And if he want to expose that point of view over and over on this forum, he has the freedom to do so. You have the freedom to find that offensive too, but I don't think it's any better than what he's doing so it's a little odd.
You don't fight a problem (in this case intolerance) by being intolerant yourselves, burriyng the consequence under a pile of righteous comment or despising people like him or their opinions.

[Polliot]

Any_ILL wrote...

I agree with ExtremeOne on one thing. It's his right to be disgusted by it. I mean, it's a free country, you can think absolutely whatever you want. He has the right to think that and I find offensive that he has to be persecuted for it (you too can think whatever you want though but I don't understand how your own intolerance to his intolerance is any different or better).

Exactly.

[M-Sinistrari]

Polliot wrote...

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Deep breathing helps, so does stretching from what I've found out.  From what I've seen, when someone's not really giving much for one to try and talk things out, as frustrating as it is, you're stuck with not being able to reason with them.  I like to believe that it's possible to talk anything out, and if need be crack out some coffee cake since people tend to open up more when food's involved.  

At this point I think cracking out a full seven course meal with really fancy dessert's not going to help.

Same could be said for your side. But you can't expect someone to change their beliefs because of few posts.

Well, there's been no shortage of stubborness with I think pretty much everyone posting.  Though there is a vast difference between a statement like "I don't think X is a good idea, my reasons are Y and Z" and "This sucks and you all suck!" when it comes to trying to have a discussion.

[JBONE27]

I'm a little confused. They said there would be no new love interests. Then they said there would be wider options, but the LIs would remain the same characters. Now, there are new love interests.

Revised way I think it should be implemented.
M/M Kaiden, James Vega.
F/F Tali, Kelly, Jack
Asari Liara, Samara, Morinth (bad idea).

Reasoning.
Kaiden: Body language seems to imply an attraction to both male and female Shepards, one missing from Ashley, Garrus, Miranda, Jack (there's other evidence for her), Jacob, and Thane.
James: We know absolutely nothing about his sexuallity, so he could be gay or bisexual.
Tali: Combination of body language, spoken language (so MOE around both male and female Shepards), and the dossier from LotSB.
Kelly: She is very openly pan-sexual (mentions love for several alien species).
Jack: Mentioned that she had sexual relations with women prior to joining the Normandy.
Liara: LI for both M and F in the first game and LotSB.
Samara: Almost kiss in ME2.
Morinth: Can pursue successfully in ME2, but not recommended.

Looking at the list, it seems there should be some sort of male alien for the M/M... but neither Garrus nor Thane really work... Maybe Grunt or some new male alien.

[paptschik]

Any_ILL wrote...

(because he's limiting himself, by example by preventing him from enjoying ME3 or be disgusted each time a gay couple kiss which will happen more and more in the following years)

People kissing each other can be pretty disgusting anyway.
I mean, unlike in movies etc. a genuine kiss, unless you're one of the two involved parties, can look either silly or ugly. I've seen straight couples going at it in public and it looked like they tried to suck each others guts out of one another.
I'm still in favor of public portrayals of affection by any kind of romance, but yeah, it can look not so good.

[JeffZero]

Any_ILL wrote...

I agree with ExtremeOne on one thing. It's his right to be disgusted by it. I mean, it's a free country, you can think absolutely whatever you want. He has the right to think that and I find offensive that he has to be persecuted for it (you too can think whatever you want though but I don't understand how your own intolerance to his intolerance is any different or better).

Actually, that would partly depend on what country he's in. Not all posters on here are American, you know. And I'm not going on some big anti-American bend by saying that so don't take it as such. I'm just thinking you might have been subconsciously categorizing us all as Americans based on the old "it's a free country" statement. That seems to link itself to the States rather quickly.

He would be going too far if he tries to limit other persons freedom. Yelling or complaining on a gay couple who kiss each other on the street is wrong. Finding it offensive is not, it's sad for him (because he's limiting himself, by example by preventing him from enjoying ME3 or be disgusted each time a gay couple kiss which will happen more and more in the following years) and irrationnal (but everyone is) but not wrong. And if he want to expose that point of view over and over on this forum, he has the freedom to do so. You have the freedom to find that offensive too, but I don't think it's any better than what he's doing so it's a little odd.

It's the vile in that one particular post of his that sets me off. He said some things that I guess one could classify as no more edgy than anyone else's and when some posters answered him 'unfavorably' he suddenly threw a bunch of unnecessary vitriol into the mix. To me going on a multi-sentence escapade about how 'disgusting' same-sex romance is is the equivalent to going on a multi-sentence escapade about how 'disgusting' [insert ethnic minority here] is.

And sure, everyone is irrational to some degree, but there are degrees. That's the important part. I really don't think anyone on the opposite side of the fence has posted anything as purely vindictive as what he typed up earlier.

[JeffZero]

For the record, I am American -- born and raised. So please don't misunderstand the tone of my first response.

[Seboist]

Polliot wrote...

Seboist wrote...

One guy expresses his views and he's ganged up on. It's clear who's "hateful" and it isn't Extreme.

I think he is,but he has every right to be. At least he is not a hypocrite like most of the people here. A lot of hateful people are here,they just don't realize it.

That most certainly is true and they know who they are.

[Polliot]

JeffZero wrote...


And sure, everyone is irrational to some degree, but there are degrees. That's the important part. I really don't think anyone on the opposite side of the fence has posted anything as purely vindictive as what he typed up earlier.

No? People of his opinion have been called idiots,less worthy,as*holes,just to name a few. Of course he is pissed off.

[JBONE27]

JeffZero wrote...

Any_ILL wrote...

I agree with ExtremeOne on one thing. It's his right to be disgusted by it. I mean, it's a free country, you can think absolutely whatever you want. He has the right to think that and I find offensive that he has to be persecuted for it (you too can think whatever you want though but I don't understand how your own intolerance to his intolerance is any different or better).

Actually, that would partly depend on what country he's in. Not all posters on here are American, you know. And I'm not going on some big anti-American bend by saying that so don't take it as such. I'm just thinking you might have been subconsciously categorizing us all as Americans based on the old "it's a free country" statement. That seems to link itself to the States rather quickly.

He would be going too far if he tries to limit other persons freedom. Yelling or complaining on a gay couple who kiss each other on the street is wrong. Finding it offensive is not, it's sad for him (because he's limiting himself, by example by preventing him from enjoying ME3 or be disgusted each time a gay couple kiss which will happen more and more in the following years) and irrationnal (but everyone is) but not wrong. And if he want to expose that point of view over and over on this forum, he has the freedom to do so. You have the freedom to find that offensive too, but I don't think it's any better than what he's doing so it's a little odd.

It's the vile in that one particular post of his that sets me off. He said some things that I guess one could classify as no more edgy than anyone else's and when some posters answered him 'unfavorably' he suddenly threw a bunch of unnecessary vitriol into the mix. To me going on a multi-sentence escapade about how 'disgusting' same-sex romance is is the equivalent to going on a multi-sentence escapade about how 'disgusting' [insert ethnic minority here] is.

And sure, everyone is irrational to some degree, but there are degrees. That's the important part. I really don't think anyone on the opposite side of the fence has posted anything as purely vindictive as what he typed up earlier.

Aren't all contries that have English as their primary language relatively free these days?  Most, if not all of them have had their problems, including the US, but aren't they all free now?

[JeffZero]

JBONE27 wrote...

Aren't all contries that have English as their primary language relatively free these days?  Most, if not all of them have had their problems, including the US, but aren't they all free now?

Yeah. But I know at least one poster on here that isn't from an English-primary country and has opened up to me about the horrors she's faced where she lives, so yeah.

Modifié par JeffZero, 22 mai 2011 - 11:22 .

[M-Sinistrari]

Polliot wrote...

JeffZero wrote...


And sure, everyone is irrational to some degree, but there are degrees. That's the important part. I really don't think anyone on the opposite side of the fence has posted anything as purely vindictive as what he typed up earlier.

No? People of his opinion have been called idiots,less worthy,as*holes,just to name a few. Of course he is pissed off.

If you look at the tone of posts expressing thier opinion, that's a factor with how the content's taken.  Even online, impressions do matter.  There's a difference between not clearly stating one's opinion with use of terminology that's going to trigger a kneejerk reaction and posting in a clear and calm manner.

[JeffZero]

Polliot wrote...

No? People of his opinion have been called idiots,less worthy,as*holes,just to name a few. Of course he is pissed off.

*shrugs* I only looked at the past couple of pages. I hadn't realized. There's a reason I don't keep up with the entire thread. When you see me in here, know that I've only read the relatively recent posts because this place is so super-heated with angst that I just can't bring myself to follow it in its entirety.

So yes, if you're thinking "oh, so you don't even read the entire thread, what do you know" then I'll concede. I'm not usually like that but given the circumstances, I'd hope you understand.

[JeffZero]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

If you look at the tone of posts expressing thier opinion, that's a factor with how the content's taken.  Even online, impressions do matter.  There's a difference between not clearly stating one's opinion with use of terminology that's going to trigger a kneejerk reaction and posting in a clear and calm manner.

Indeed. ExtremeOne has been noted for his tendency to knee-jerk the hell out of all his posts, too, so I'm going off of that.

[Seboist]

Polliot wrote...

JeffZero wrote...


And sure, everyone is irrational to some degree, but there are degrees. That's the important part. I really don't think anyone on the opposite side of the fence has posted anything as purely vindictive as what he typed up earlier.

No? People of his opinion have been called idiots,less worthy,as*holes,just to name a few. Of course he is pissed off.

And they get spammed by troll pics. The nerve some people on here have is apalling.

[JBONE27]

[quote]JeffZero wrote...

[quote]JBONE27 wrote...

[/quote] Aren't all contries that have English as their primary language relatively free these days?  Most, if not all of them have had their problems, including the US, but aren't they all free now?
[/quote]

Yeah. But I know at least one poster on here that isn't from an English-primary country and has opened up to me about the horrors she's faced where she lives, so yeah.

[/quote] I suppose you're right.  I'm not entirely sure of the nation of origin of most of the people on this forum.  I just assumed that they were from a primary English country because it's usually easier to comunicate in your native tounge.

[BrandNewMan]

Polliot wrote...

JeffZero wrote...


And sure, everyone is irrational to some degree, but there are degrees. That's the important part. I really don't think anyone on the opposite side of the fence has posted anything as purely vindictive as what he typed up earlier.

No? People of his opinion have been called idiots,less worthy,as*holes,just to name a few. Of course he is pissed off.

Alright, then let's have reasonable debate here. He couldn't explain why homosexuality was disgusting and offensive, but I'd love for anyone else to do it for him.

[M-Sinistrari]

JBONE27 wrote...
Aren't all contries that have English as their primary language relatively free these days?  Most, if not all of them have had their problems, including the US, but aren't they all free now?

The Free Speech argument that gets flung about by my fellow Americans really only applies in that the Government cannot interfere with someone speaking out.  These forums are the property of Bioware so they can mandate whatever rules and restrictions they want.

Equally Free Speech doesn't exempt someone from getting called out by someone else of an opposing viewpoint.