6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Cuddlezarro]

While the witchers romances are pretty cringe worthy in general I honestly don't find bioware much better at all and the witcher does the whol morality and choices and consequences alot better

[Pups_of_war_76]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...
I played The Witcher for the first time yesterday, and for all everyone's been saying about how that game has great moral choices, I think they did a good job with moral choices but the dialog you posted above is pretty much right. The "romance" events in The Witcher seem tailored for a 14 year old boy, and no one else, and only makes me more proud to have played BioWare's games, and Mass Effect romances in general.

Witcher 2's are much better. Mass Effect 1 had good romances but ME2 were a joke.

Triss and Geralt in the bath scene comes right after a romantic conversation between the two and if they should stay together and such. They find a elven bath in a elven garden with flowers around and decide to have some fun.

I haven't explored the other romances since the save import feature unlike ME2's gave me a different Act II so I am getting different quests and npcs to meet. Haven't finished so don't know who else I can romance.

If this isn't a lovely place for a romance scene then I don't know what is.

http://cloud.steampo...981082208191AE/

Just watched this on YouTube too and...this is beyond pandering. Seriously, the next time somebody complains about the objectification of women in BioWare games, I'm going to point them to this scene. It's digital soft-core porn, the only dialogue is "Triss" moaning, and the other people in the cutaway scene. It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen, actually, and if THIS is an indicator of what this game is all about, I'm just that much more glad that I don't own a PC. 

There's another one with the same character that is better, but I still don't see what all the hullaballoo is about. 

[jeweledleah]

well, I wouldn't knock Witcher completely, the game has a lot of good moments, but romance (and lets face it - actual gameplay) are not the strong points of it. it does morally gray very well. sex in it IS pandering though, its pretty pointless and it serves no purpose other then to show how manly and virile Geralt is.

sex =/= romance. explicit =/= mature relationship.

[Charmile]

I'm sure this idea has been mentioned already, but what if they included sexual orientation as a part on the psychological profile, like the War Hero/Ruthless/Sole Survivorbackground. The idea would be that dialogue between all possible LI's would be different in which ones you were allowed to romance, like the current barriers already created by which Gender you choose for your Shepard.

I can see where this idea might be viewed a filter for those who are uncomfortable for different sexual preferences, but that is not the nature of the idea; It allows each player to customize their Shepard, so that they can have the continuity that each player desire. For example, where one Shepard may romance Ashley from ME1, another may have held out because they felt that none of possible LI's were worth the effort for their Shepard.
I guess the main point I'm trying to get across here is that it would allow the streamlining of the dialogue systems, so player who are concerned won't be accidentally be put into a romance that they do not desire to be in.

[Siansonea]

Honestly, after seeing these few Witcher videos, I would never have any desire to play that game. I don't care how much better they handle gameplay mechanics, etc., if this is the level of thought given to characterization—PASS. I was simultaneously laughing and cringing throughout. And if I want comedy, I'm not going to play a game that seems to be designed to give teenage boys their first boner, now matter how unintentionally hilarious the game is as a result.

[Siansonea]

jeweledleah wrote...

sex ≠ romance. explicit ≠ mature relationship.

You know it, and I know it, but these kids today, they don't know it. Boy are they in for a surprise when they actually find themselves IN relationships...

[jeweledleah]

Siansonea II wrote...

Honestly, after seeing these few Witcher videos, I would never have any desire to play that game. I don't care how much better they handle gameplay mechanics, etc., if this is the level of thought given to characterization—PASS. I was simultaneously laughing and cringing throughout. And if I want comedy, I'm not going to play a game that seems to be designed to give teenage boys their first boner, now matter how unintentionally hilarious the game is as a result.

well, to be honest, the first time I saw the intro to Anders romance (the kiss part)  I just about died laughing.  some people find it hot, but I still cannot help but burst into laughter, IMO it was THAT cheesily over done.

in terms of the Witcher - the games are pretty good in other aspects and I guess I could say that... if it bothers you, don't play through those parts?  its still a choice, Geralt is not obligated to pursue every hookup he comes across, just as Shepard is not obligated to have gay sex, or straight sex, or any sex for that matter.

[Cuddlezarro]

Siansonea II wrote...

Honestly, after seeing these few Witcher videos, I would never have any desire to play that game. I don't care how much better they handle gameplay mechanics, etc., if this is the level of thought given to characterization—PASS. I was simultaneously laughing and cringing throughout. And if I want comedy, I'm not going to play a game that seems to be designed to give teenage boys their first boner, now matter how unintentionally hilarious the game is as a result.

That's pretty much how I feel about bioware romances the dragon age ones had me in stiches between the cheesy ads music and the underwear sex

[Siansonea]

jeweledleah wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Honestly, after seeing these few Witcher videos, I would never have any desire to play that game. I don't care how much better they handle gameplay mechanics, etc., if this is the level of thought given to characterization—PASS. I was simultaneously laughing and cringing throughout. And if I want comedy, I'm not going to play a game that seems to be designed to give teenage boys their first boner, now matter how unintentionally hilarious the game is as a result.

well, to be honest, the first time I saw the intro to Anders romance (the kiss part)  I just about died laughing.  some people find it hot, but I still cannot help but burst into laughter, IMO it was THAT cheesily over done.

in terms of the Witcher - the games are pretty good in other aspects and I guess I could say that... if it bothers you, don't play through those parts?  its still a choice, Geralt is not obligated to pursue every hookup he comes across, just as Shepard is not obligated to have gay sex, or straight sex, or any sex for that matter.

I'm thinking this game isn't for me anyway. For all that it's touted as being 'teh best RPG evar", what little I've seen is enough to make me pretty sure it's not for me. For one thing, I don't want to play "Geralt", but that seems be the only character you can play. At least with Shepard and Hawke I get two genders to pick from. Being limited to this one dude with his one face that I think looks like a 19-year-old boy's idea of badassss!—yeah, not for me. Especially since he somehow gets to bang chicks with implants and Brazilian-waxed landing strips. That's some people's thing, and more power to them I guess, but it's just not my thing. Maybe I'm judging the game unfairly, but I didn't see anything in those videos that even hinted at a higher level of quality. It seemed like the developers spent a lot of time getting the breast jiggle physics just so, but the voice acting and writing was eye-rollingly bad. And those two things are reeeeeally important to me. 

Modifié par Siansonea II, 22 mai 2011 - 05:19 .

[Cuddlezarro]

yeah the english voice acting for the witcher is pretty awful... thats why I play the game with the original polish voice acting on

there are soem very very good aspects to it but gameplay and romance is just not one of them (also the reason you cant change gender is because the games based on a long running polish novel series and the main character is taken from them)

edit:though i wouldent tout it as the best RPG ever IMO that goes to Planescape torment followed by NWN2 mask of the betrayer

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 22 mai 2011 - 05:29 .

[Aurellia]

Charmile wrote...

I'm sure this idea has been mentioned already, but what if they included sexual orientation as a part on the psychological profile, like the War Hero/Ruthless/Sole Survivorbackground. The idea would be that dialogue between all possible LI's would be different in which ones you were allowed to romance, like the current barriers already created by which Gender you choose for your Shepard.

I can see where this idea might be viewed a filter for those who are uncomfortable for different sexual preferences, but that is not the nature of the idea; It allows each player to customize their Shepard, so that they can have the continuity that each player desire. For example, where one Shepard may romance Ashley from ME1, another may have held out because they felt that none of possible LI's were worth the effort for their Shepard.
I guess the main point I'm trying to get across here is that it would allow the streamlining of the dialogue systems, so player who are concerned won't be accidentally be put into a romance that they do not desire to be in.

There are other ways to allow people to opt out of relationships that send less of a "we're giving you a chance to censor teh gay" message.  It also limits choices that may organically arise during the course of the game.

I put up a simple alternative to this several times but no one has commented yet.

Implement a gift system (not the approval system from DA) where you unlock the ability to progress from friendship to romance by giving them a gift.  With this each player can chose who they wish to purse.  No ninja-mances.  The I dun wanna see teh gay boyz can be assured they live in a safe hetero-normative world where no one "untoward" will flirt with them.  And most importantly those of us who want to explore romances with every love interest can do so.

Makes everyone happy and it is equal since all new romances become opt-in on a per character basis.

Of course also let gifts unlock additional scenes for existing romances.  This could really push the romance aspect to a new level as well.

[jeweledleah]

voice acting is extremely important and it definitely can make or break the game, it does help to play with original actors rather then dubs. sometimes dubs are good, other times... oy. I actually watched some Mass Effect videos online with other language dubs and umm... lets just say my opinion on various characters would have been vastly different if that was my first exposure to the game rather then original actors bioware hired.

as for writing in Witcher, it gets pretty cheesy when it comes to "romance" but otherwise - its like a whole different game. here's a review of Witcher 2 that I found to be pretty spot on in case you are still curious
http://nilsmmoblog.b...-witcher-2.html

not that I'm trying to convince you to try it - not your thing is not your thing just, you know don't judge the whole game based on couple of cheesy moments

edited to add to the post above me

personaly, not a big fan of gifts.  they make things easier for sure, but they also ruin immersion.  I had a lot of fun with DAO, but that fact that I could make Morrigan into my best friend even though we disagreed on everything and every time I tried to talk to her or take her, I'd get an aproval drop - but gifts, they just fixed it all.  meh, not a fan, sorry.  it feels like you are buying character affections instead of earning them by finding common ground or something.  (of course I abused the hell out of gift system anyways, but it just feels like as a solution to romances is on about the same level as sexuality toggle - IMO)

Modifié par jeweledleah, 22 mai 2011 - 05:34 .

[Charmile]

bioware-sucks wrote...

Charmile wrote...

I'm sure this idea has been mentioned already, but what if they included sexual orientation as a part on the psychological profile, like the War Hero/Ruthless/Sole Survivorbackground. The idea would be that dialogue between all possible LI's would be different in which ones you were allowed to romance, like the current barriers already created by which Gender you choose for your Shepard.

I can see where this idea might be viewed a filter for those who are uncomfortable for different sexual preferences, but that is not the nature of the idea; It allows each player to customize their Shepard, so that they can have the continuity that each player desire. For example, where one Shepard may romance Ashley from ME1, another may have held out because they felt that none of possible LI's were worth the effort for their Shepard.
I guess the main point I'm trying to get across here is that it would allow the streamlining of the dialogue systems, so player who are concerned won't be accidentally be put into a romance that they do not desire to be in.

There are other ways to allow people to opt out of relationships that send less of a "we're giving you a chance to censor teh gay" message.  It also limits choices that may organically arise during the course of the game.

I put up a simple alternative to this several times but no one has commented yet.

Implement a gift system (not the approval system from DA) where you unlock the ability to progress from friendship to romance by giving them a gift.  With this each player can chose who they wish to purse.  No ninja-mances.  The I dun wanna see teh gay boyz can be assured they live in a safe hetero-normative world where no one "untoward" will flirt with them.  And most importantly those of us who want to explore romances with every love interest can do so.

Makes everyone happy and it is equal since all new romances become opt-in on a per character basis.

Of course also let gifts unlock additional scenes for existing romances.  This could really push the romance aspect to a new level as well.

That does sound less restrictive and I can see the rationale behind this; just as long as the gift system isn't required to maintain loyalty or platonic friendship/alliance with a character, ya know? I've been around a few gaming boards and have seen how much of a hot button this issue is, so I'm just trying to find a solution that works for everyone, with the minimal amount of protesting. I've seen an expansion of the color-coded dialogue or the DA2-dialogue system as options. I am not biased either way, I'm just trying to find rational solutions that will work out for everyone.

[Sunnie]

I think the profile quiz at the beginning of the game, like it was in ME where your profile was corrupted and you had to answer a few questions about yourself, would be ideal for ME3 to determine if s/s content is available or not. You could turn on or off s/s content just by answering a simple question. The question can be lore friendly and still very clear, and would be pretty easy to implement at the very start of the game.
My idea would be to build your character profile and make this choice during an interview by your Earth appointed attorney prior to the trial that is going to be opening the game. Simple!

[Siansonea]

Sunnie22 wrote...

I think the profile quiz at the beginning of the game, like it was in ME where your profile was corrupted and you had to answer a few questions about yourself, would be ideal for ME3 to determine if s/s content is available or not. You could turn on or off s/s content just by answering a simple question. The question can be lore friendly and still very clear, and would be pretty easy to implement at the very start of the game.
My idea would be to build your character profile and make this choice during an interview by your Earth appointed attorney prior to the trial that is going to be opening the game. Simple!

Why would your attorney ask if you're gay?

[Pups_of_war_76]

Sunnie22 wrote...

I think the profile quiz at the beginning of the game, like it was in ME where your profile was corrupted and you had to answer a few questions about yourself, would be ideal for ME3 to determine if s/s content is available or not. You could turn on or off s/s content just by answering a simple question. The question can be lore friendly and still very clear, and would be pretty easy to implement at the very start of the game.
My idea would be to build your character profile and make this choice during an interview by your Earth appointed attorney prior to the trial that is going to be opening the game. Simple!

That would work, but the on/off should be specfic to Shepard. It'd be nice if there were some gay or bi NPCs encountered regardless, and the profile just determined whether or not Shep could flirt with romance options of the same gender, rather than extending to the whole gameworld. 

>Represent all sexualities
>People with straight Sheps don't mistakenly start flirting due to ambiguities in the dialog-wheel paraphrases.
>Everybody wins!

I'd say that they could just implement DA2-style graphic indicators on the dialog wheel to keep people from accidentally initiating romances, but apparently that didn't work for everybody. 

[BrandNewMan]

Siansonea II wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

I think the profile quiz at the beginning of the game, like it was in ME where your profile was corrupted and you had to answer a few questions about yourself, would be ideal for ME3 to determine if s/s content is available or not. You could turn on or off s/s content just by answering a simple question. The question can be lore friendly and still very clear, and would be pretty easy to implement at the very start of the game.
My idea would be to build your character profile and make this choice during an interview by your Earth appointed attorney prior to the trial that is going to be opening the game. Simple!

Why would your attorney ask if you're gay?

You never know, might come in handy in the trial.

[Charmile]

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

I think the profile quiz at the beginning of the game, like it was in ME where your profile was corrupted and you had to answer a few questions about yourself, would be ideal for ME3 to determine if s/s content is available or not. You could turn on or off s/s content just by answering a simple question. The question can be lore friendly and still very clear, and would be pretty easy to implement at the very start of the game.
My idea would be to build your character profile and make this choice during an interview by your Earth appointed attorney prior to the trial that is going to be opening the game. Simple!

That would work, but the on/off should be specfic to Shepard. It'd be nice if there were some gay or bi NPCs encountered regardless, and the profile just determined whether or not Shep could flirt with romance options of the same gender, rather than extending to the whole gameworld. 

>Represent all sexualities
>People with straight Sheps don't mistakenly start flirting due to ambiguities in the dialog-wheel paraphrases.
>Everybody wins!

I'd say that they could just implement DA2-style graphic indicators on the dialog wheel to keep people from accidentally initiating romances, but apparently that didn't work for everybody. 

And that can be done and that was my original intention with the psych option, similar to the ME1/ME2 initial character. The dialogue differentiation would occur much like it did with ME1, where certain characters already have sexual preferences, but they don't express them to Shepard, if that's what you want.

I think it would be better if Kelly was the one that asked about Shepard's profile since she is a psychologist and they would be logically questions to ask during a yearly psychology exam.

[Sunnie]

Siansonea II wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

I think the profile quiz at the beginning of the game, like it was in ME where your profile was corrupted and you had to answer a few questions about yourself, would be ideal for ME3 to determine if s/s content is available or not. You could turn on or off s/s content just by answering a simple question. The question can be lore friendly and still very clear, and would be pretty easy to implement at the very start of the game.
My idea would be to build your character profile and make this choice during an interview by your Earth appointed attorney prior to the trial that is going to be opening the game. Simple!

Why would your attorney ask if you're gay?

It wouldn't be that direct, would be more like...
Attorney: So, we may need a character reference in your defense, did you have a relationship with any of your crew members, or did you want to? Who was it?

Or somethign like that. This would be a good lore freindly way of turning that on or off. Of course there should also be the check box in the options to do so but for those that want immersion, that would be a good way to go about it.

Modifié par Sunnie22, 22 mai 2011 - 05:48 .

[PMC65]

Siansonea II wrote...

Honestly, after seeing these few Witcher videos, I would never have any desire to play that game. I don't care how much better they handle gameplay mechanics, etc., if this is the level of thought given to characterization—PASS. I was simultaneously laughing and cringing throughout. And if I want comedy, I'm not going to play a game that seems to be designed to give teenage boys their first boner, now matter how unintentionally hilarious the game is as a result.

To be honest, teenage boys can look at a chair and get a ....

I do wish that Mass Effect 3 is better in the romantic scenes then in 2 and LotSB. My Shepard would like more than "grab Liara, smooch, black eyes [fade out] ... come back y'all". Now if I were an Asari the black eye scene might be considered "hot", but as a human not so much.

[Cuddlezarro]

Charmile wrote...

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

I think the profile quiz at the beginning of the game, like it was in ME where your profile was corrupted and you had to answer a few questions about yourself, would be ideal for ME3 to determine if s/s content is available or not. You could turn on or off s/s content just by answering a simple question. The question can be lore friendly and still very clear, and would be pretty easy to implement at the very start of the game.
My idea would be to build your character profile and make this choice during an interview by your Earth appointed attorney prior to the trial that is going to be opening the game. Simple!

That would work, but the on/off should be specfic to Shepard. It'd be nice if there were some gay or bi NPCs encountered regardless, and the profile just determined whether or not Shep could flirt with romance options of the same gender, rather than extending to the whole gameworld. 

>Represent all sexualities
>People with straight Sheps don't mistakenly start flirting due to ambiguities in the dialog-wheel paraphrases.
>Everybody wins!

I'd say that they could just implement DA2-style graphic indicators on the dialog wheel to keep people from accidentally initiating romances, but apparently that didn't work for everybody. 

And that can be done and that was my original intention with the psych option, similar to the ME1/ME2 initial character. The dialogue differentiation would occur much like it did with ME1, where certain characters already have sexual preferences, but they don't express them to Shepard, if that's what you want.

I think it would be better if Kelly was the one that asked about Shepard's profile since she is a psychologist and they would be logically questions to ask during a yearly psychology exam.

while I like the idea of a psychologist asking shep the questions and stuff but Kelly didnt survive in every ones games (she didnt in mine) so i think it might be best to have either her replaced if she died or just a generic one in general

[Siansonea]

I dunno, sitting through a boring psych eval with Kelly just so anti-gay players don't have to choose the obvious Flirt With A Dude options? I'd rather they spend those resources on an interesting conversation with Kelly that reveals something interesting about Shepard and Kelly in the process, where Shepard can declare his/her true feelings about the events in the game. You know, actually customize the character from an emotional standpoint. This just sounds like a "setup wizard" to fill in Shepard's profile.

[TheSeventhJedi]

I'll drop my two cents in why I'm worried. If you're playing a femshep, and you DON'T want to romance that idiot Jacob - you pretty much have to never ask him about his personal life, and go down the "I hate you forever don't look at me or I'll throw up" route in conversations to avoid things being creepy. When manshep talks to Jacob, he says "I'm just interested in talking for a bit," it sounds casual and completely okay. When femshep says it to him, she sounds like a totally creepy stalker who wants to jump his bones right then and there.

I think you're right about doing it like DA2 - but not with gifts. There needs to be a seperate, fourth dialogue option for "flirt." Just because I'm a paragon doesn't mean I want to sleep with you, and just because I'm a renegade doesn't mean I don't. I'm not gay. I don't want to see gay relationships. If you're for people being allowed to like them, then you must give those who find it - disturbing is the nicest word I can come up with, the same freedom of opinion. In DA2, I knew "Uh-oh, Anders has a heart in the dialogue box - do not flirt or you're going to wind up in a relationship with him." I was able to know, without question, which dialogue option to avoid if I didn't want to be gay with a character in the game. As long as the game never just assumes that my Shep is into dudes just because he's nice, I'll be fine.

[Siansonea]

PMC65 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Honestly, after seeing these few Witcher videos, I would never have any desire to play that game. I don't care how much better they handle gameplay mechanics, etc., if this is the level of thought given to characterization—PASS. I was simultaneously laughing and cringing throughout. And if I want comedy, I'm not going to play a game that seems to be designed to give teenage boys their first boner, now matter how unintentionally hilarious the game is as a result.

To be honest, teenage boys can look at a chair and get a ....

I do wish that Mass Effect 3 is better in the romantic scenes then in 2 and LotSB. My Shepard would like more than "grab Liara, smooch, black eyes [fade out] ... come back y'all". Now if I were an Asari the black eye scene might be considered "hot", but as a human not so much.

I agree, but I don't think depicting coitus adds anything other than titillation, and I'm not there for that. I want meaningful interaction. For instance, it would have been nice if in the midst of Shepard and Miranda's grappling, there was a pause, and Shepard put his hand on Miranda's face, and her expression softened, and they just looked into each other's eyes for a few seconds, that would have been cool. Just watching people mackin' on each other is kinda meh for me. 

In the Liara scene, I liked everything that led up to the "black eyes", and I don't know what could have come after that other than just groping and whatnot. At that point I would start feeling like a voyeur. 

[Sunnie]

TheSeventhJedi wrote...

I'll drop my two cents in why I'm worried. If you're playing a femshep, and you DON'T want to romance that idiot Jacob - you pretty much have to never ask him about his personal life, and go down the "I hate you forever don't look at me or I'll throw up" route in conversations to avoid things being creepy. When manshep talks to Jacob, he says "I'm just interested in talking for a bit," it sounds casual and completely okay. When femshep says it to him, she sounds like a totally creepy stalker who wants to jump his bones right then and there.

I think you're right about doing it like DA2 - but not with gifts. There needs to be a seperate, fourth dialogue option for "flirt." Just because I'm a paragon doesn't mean I want to sleep with you, and just because I'm a renegade doesn't mean I don't. I'm not gay. I don't want to see gay relationships. If you're for people being allowed to like them, then you must give those who find it - disturbing is the nicest word I can come up with, the same freedom of opinion. In DA2, I knew "Uh-oh, Anders has a heart in the dialogue box - do not flirt or you're going to wind up in a relationship with him." I was able to know, without question, which dialogue option to avoid if I didn't want to be gay with a character in the game. As long as the game never just assumes that my Shep is into dudes just because he's nice, I'll be fine.

I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about. DA2 dialoge choices were pretty clear about what was romance via the heart icon. I don't think that ME3 will be any much different in that respect. There will be clear indicators of what you are about to or continue doing when chatting up your squad members.

Modifié par Sunnie22, 22 mai 2011 - 05:57 .