6696 réponses à ce sujet

[AltitudeNYC]

This has become pretty terrible.
All this hetro vs. ****** stuff is just ruining Bioware's licenses.

[LordJeyl]

Well, I for one would like to have my femshep be able to romance either Tali, Miranda or even Jack if it comes down to it. I say we leave it with choice and focus on the relationships themselves.

I for one would have liked more yearning/longing moments in Dragon Age II instead of the quick "in-relationship" we got.

I will be very disappointed if there are a lot of missing sound files detailing a relationship between FemShep and other female romantic interests.Let's just do away with the whole "was originally supposed to be romancable" and just go for it.

[JediMB]

AltitudeNYC wrote...

This has become pretty terrible.
All this hetro vs. ****** stuff is just ruining Bioware's licenses.

There really shouldn't be any "hetero vs ****** stuff" to begin with. There's no rational reason O/S and S/S can't coexist so that players can choose according to their preference when they're playing.

[PMC65]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Seriously, I am with you. There has to be a middle road where everyone can enjoy their game. Hopefully Bioware will look at everyone's concerns and come up with a great solution to implement.  Maybe that is why CHud put this out on twitter 1/2 year + to release.

 BRILLIANT CHud ... let your fanbase brain storm!

From my own experience, getting a crowd to brainstorm always ends up with some interesting ideas that can end up also working for something completely different than what the project is.

It seems that we have been in some of the same meetings.

[James2912]

I would love it if they added the Bethany character model (with modern clothes of course) made her a biotic and a bisexual LI. That would be awesome. Bethany's model was pretty awesome and since you can't romance her for obvious reasons in Dragon age 2, I would love for the opportunity in ME3!

[Aurellia]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

No, it's a way of acknowledging that some people won't find much entertainment in certain themes.  As people championing the increasing homosexual content are eager to point out, these are just pixels.  If a potentially gay character is toggled into the hetero-normative universe where my Shep lives, who's the victim?

Whereas the inclusion of homosexuality was first advanced as a choice for gay players, now it is treated as a political rallying point.  The game must include homosexuality, and it must confront every player.  Bioware games are now a vehicle for the validation of certain sexual...predilections.  The simple preference not to see it is an insult, a terrible (if not dangerous) statement of intolerance.

I answered a question of why some individuals would find the toggle offensive or harmful.

My proposal of using gifts accomplishes exactly the same goal not forcing you to confront material that you are not comfortable with without without the disadvantages that I cited.

Just many GLBT folks don't get why having to say no in a dialog would be troubling to you, many folks on the other side have trouble getting the idea that equating gay content to something disgusting is offensive.


I am trying to propose a way that gives both sides what they want.

Homosexuality between characters has an effect on the theme and tone of a story, just like anything else (such as celibacy).  In a role-playing game, these sorts of things matter.  If, as in DA2, it appears that several teammates are bisexual or (worse yet) have a completely malleable sexuality that can change within a conversation, it colors the story.  When Anders makes a sexual advance, is rejected, and then expresses disappointment (perhaps in the form of rivalry points), it changes the nature of the relationship with Hawke.

There are many things that change the theme and tone of the story such as paragon vs renegade.  That choice has a much larger impact than a few dialog choices that you can ignore (or the ability for a man to give Jacob flowers.)  Yet, that choice is not chosen up front.  The toggle limits roleplay for those of us who wish to enjoy all the options in the game.  The gift system lets you not see "teh gay" since it requires you to take an action to opt in.  Ie click on your terminal, buy a gift and walk over and give it to them.  If you are not carrying a gift you don't get the dialog option to give them the gift.

If these themes are truly part of Bioware's intended story, they should be written that way.  If, however, they are just fanservice to a tirelessly vocal homosexual segment of the fanbase, then they are disposable and can omitted for players with different tastes.  Some of us, for example, are glad that Aragon and Boromir never got around to sodomy during The Fellowship of the Ring.  In fact, some of us may be so foamingly intolerant that we wouldn't have finished the book if they had.

If Bioware is committed to showing the world that such people have no place in their fanbase, they are in an excellent position to make that statement.

Bioware has made it clear to me that they want each person to enjoy their world as they desire.  The toggle is an inferior way to maximize options for everyone to either clearly marked dialog or a gift system.

The dialog options have the disadvantage that "teh gay" is still shoved in your face, so I support the gift system.

Just as a personal note, I was very angry at the handling of lesbian content in ME2 after getting very nice lesbian content in ME1.  This is because Bioware has had a long history of at least including lesbian content in most of its games.  So ME2 was a disappointment, especially relative to DA:O which had just come out a few months before.  

In the end both of us just want to have our cake and eat it too.  i think the gift system is the best way to accomplish exactly that.

Modifié par bioware-sucks, 22 mai 2011 - 08:57 .

[ADLegend21]

JediMB wrote...

AltitudeNYC wrote...

This has become pretty terrible.
All this hetro vs. ****** stuff is just ruining Bioware's licenses.

There really shouldn't be any "hetero vs ****** stuff" to begin with. There's no rational reason O/S and S/S can't coexist so that players can choose according to their preference when they're playing.

That should be the tagline of this thread. Every single game is differnt so I don't see the problem if there's same sex romances in someone elses playthrough. Why cn't we all just get along so everyone is happy?

[OSUP]

Hey all (new here) so I figured I'd jump right in. I actually was really excited about this announcement. A possibility for my MShep to act on his mancrushes for Garrus and Joker? Win. But honestly Bioware is doing what Mass Effect has really attempted to do. Allowing people to shape their galat6ic hero to be who they want. Paragon/Renegade, Gay/Straight/Bi, ect. Options aren't requirements.

[Abispa]

AltitudeNYC wrote...

This has become pretty terrible.
All this hetro vs. ****** stuff is just ruining Bioware's licenses.

You know, there are TWO ways one could take that comment.

[Abispa]

OSUP wrote...

Hey all (new here) so I figured I'd jump right in. I actually was really excited about this announcement. A possibility for my MShep to act on his mancrushes for Garrus and Joker? Win. But honestly Bioware is doing what Mass Effect has really attempted to do. Allowing people to shape their galat6ic hero to be who they want. Paragon/Renegade, Gay/Straight/Bi, ect. Options aren't requirements.

Thank you very much. Feel free to offer constructive criticisms on what you hope to see, and definitely make satirical comments on ME and other Bioware games in order to break up the outbreaks of long, indignant, "I'm so offended" posts that pop up quite frequently.

[Abispa]

James2912 wrote...

I would love it if they added the Bethany character model (with modern clothes of course) made her a biotic and a bisexual LI. That would be awesome. Bethany's model was pretty awesome and since you can't romance her for obvious reasons in Dragon age 2, I would love for the opportunity in ME3!

My girlfriend is obsessed with Bethany carring on some torrid affair with Cullen and carrying his love child in a future expansion or DLC.

[Erani]

OSUP wrote...

Hey all (new here) so I figured I'd jump right in. I actually was really excited about this announcement. A possibility for my MShep to act on his mancrushes for Garrus and Joker? Win. But honestly Bioware is doing what Mass Effect has really attempted to do. Allowing people to shape their galat6ic hero to be who they want. Paragon/Renegade, Gay/Straight/Bi, ect. Options aren't requirements.

This.
Hi and Welcome! 

[jeweledleah]

James2912 wrote...

I would love it if they added the Bethany character model (with modern clothes of course) made her a biotic and a bisexual LI. That would be awesome. Bethany's model was pretty awesome and since you can't romance her for obvious reasons in Dragon age 2, I would love for the opportunity in ME3!

which of her models?  she has more then one

[Strephon Gentry]

bioware-sucks wrote...

Strephon Gentry wrote...

And what is offensive about a toggle? It gives a choice. If you want to see "X" then toggle on. It's like a gore setting found in most FPS. I think that would be a good compromise that would make BOTH sides happy.

This has been discussed quite a bit earlier in the thread.  I'm going to use your example in a bit of an extreme way to make the point.

Likening love between two people of the same sex to gore (something disgusting) sends a subtle message to LGBT people, especially youth that being gay is something disgusting and needs to be kept away from their eyes.

In real life these kind of memes contribute to various harm coming to GLBT folks.  See www.itgetsbetter.org/ if you want to learn more about this.  Some folks may not care about this, and that's fine.  Thankfully Bioware is an inclusive company and does care about these sorts of things.  

Fortunately, it is possible to satisfy both those who have antipathy to the GLBT cause and those who support it as I suggested in my "gift system" posts.

Previous posters have also made analogies such as "why not have a race toggle?" where you can't see or romance people of color because they make you uncomfortable.

While those analogies can be inflammatory they do serve as examples to why a toggle might be troubling.  It is basically a subtle way of condoning or enshrining the distaste for the target class of persons or behavior.

As an interesting moment of Zen, ask yourself why has no-one argued for a paragon/renegade toggle?  After all being nasty/"evil" is probably the biggest thing you want to avoid if you are spiritual or religious in any kind of way^_^

Actually, you are taking it to an extreme there. You have to remember that this is a video game. Not a political statement. A toggle just gives the gamer the choice on the romances. Just as if there was a sexuality option in the character creation process. Yes, you might miss out on some dialog but I honestly don't believe missing that bit of dialog would ruin the story.

And if you do, then you could always get the missing dialog in an other playthrough like you can with going through one time as a paragon and another as a renagade.

But once again, it all comes down to perferences. The "relationships" are a nice addition but not realy needed in over all story and the story is really why we are all playing the game after all. 

[anyawow2]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...
Agreed, I also think they should add a new female companion other than Liara who is bi.

I would like a new female companion to be bi also.  My femshep romanced Liara in ME1.  I do not like at all the person Liara changed into in ME2.  My Femshep has zero interest in any male romances and will be very lonely during ME3 without a new female LI.

New female bi LI please for ME3.<3

[OSUP]

Does anyone have any idea when we might get info on who will be romanceable and to what extent? E3 possibly?

[thatguy212]

OSUP wrote...

Does anyone have any idea when we might get info on who will be romanceable and to what extent? E3 possibly?

I don't think they gave out any info for who you could romance in 2 so we probably won't know til the games out, i think the only sort of hint was in the launch trailer, which showed miranda stripping, so other than a trailer giving us a hint, we won't know until its out

[Subject Alpha]

 Wow. you're really trying to push your gift mechanic system, aren't you Bioware-sucks? 
for the record, I think it's quite a neat idea. I liked them in DA2.
Aaaaannyway, this was already posted on the the Joker-mance thread, but I thought somee of us would appreciate it aswell...

manveerheir Manveer Heir 
@SethGreen I cannot explain how many fans have asked us for Joker to get laid in this game. Joker is definitely loved by many - rock it out

Seth Green also tweeted he recorded dialogue, and posted a picture...
Clicky!!
Look at that pic and tell me you don't want him. I dare you.

Modifié par Subject Alpha, 22 mai 2011 - 10:37 .

[Abispa]

So, since some of you have already commented on the "mature" sex scenes of The Witcher series, how do you think ME3 should handle them? I myself DO NOT want a 3D polygon version of Phil Foglio's XXXenophile, but I am curious on what some of you consider "too much" or "not enough." Would you show the foreplay and the afterglow, but not the actual deed? My girlfriend, a HUGE Garrus fan, wants the scene to go to black but have the sound continue with Garrus and Shepard making appropriate noises mixed in with comments that make you wonder what the hell is going on? Maybe see male Shepard slammed against the wall by one of Jack's passionate outbursts?

EDIT: If forgot to add...

And do you think Bioware will treat gay scenes differently? Or perhaps keep them all relatively tame so as not to make the gay scenes stand out as lackluster?

Modifié par Abispa, 22 mai 2011 - 10:35 .

[paptschik]

Abispa wrote...

So, since some of you have already commented on the "mature" sex scenes of The Witcher series, how do you think ME3 should handle them? I myself DO NOT want a 3D polygon version of Phil Foglio's XXXenophile, but I am curious on what some of you consider "too much" or "not enough." Would you show the foreplay and the afterglow, but not the actual deed? My girlfriend, a HUGE Garrus fan, wants the scene to go to black but have the sound continue with Garrus and Shepard making appropriate noises mixed in with comments that make you wonder what the hell is going on? Maybe see male Shepard slammed against the wall by one of Jack's passionate outbursts?

EDIT: If forgot to add...

And do you think Bioware will treat gay scenes differently? Or perhaps keep them all relatively tame so as not to make the gay scenes stand out as lackluster?

I really think it should depend on the characters. A Miranda or Jacob sex scene could go for more than a Garrus or Tali one just because of who they are. Thane I'm not sure about, Jack..I could see Jack being on the more passionate side, once any drama is out of the way and she can just enjoy it for what it is...hell, I could see a Jack sex scene that is vastly different both from the drama bit after the romance and the aggressive bit if you just randomly go for it with her earlier in the game. I could see Jack playing around and having fun, so in that case I'd be more in favor of only showing foreplay and what's afterwards (they always should show the characters actually being together and talk afterwards, even if it is only a bit like in DA2). But here it could be more open, maybe "naughty" foreplay. With Garrus or Tali I would see it a bit more..restrained? Or tender is perhaps the right word. Especially with Tali and I'd hope they at least show us her skin, her back (like, actually her back, not her ass, just bare shoulers, neck, back) or something if they want to avoid any face-reveals until some special moment that may happen later in the game or if they don't want to show her face at all.

[Porter98]

BioWare ajusting the game so that male Shepard can persue a same sex romance is an incredibly brave move. I believe this needs to be done for one simple reason, to get it over with. We need a very succesfull game, something better than DA2, with an Iconic male character that can be played as either gay or bi depending the individual player's interpertation. If this can done well, then other games will be able to do it with less fear and maybe just maybe, we can push foward the idea of acceptance just a tiny bit foward.

The reason why I mention only male Shepard is because it is my feeling that is the one that makes many people very uneasy. As for people who may be offended by stumbling on to that content in game, I don't have a good solution. Maybe the gift system or toggle system mention'd by others might work, but something tells me those are bad idea's. Me personlly I'm a big boy and I'm not soo easily offended.

I personally will not be playing this optional content, never been my thing. But I salute BioWare for taking this risky move, it takes guts to do it and I hope they do it well.

[Abispa]

Has it ever been established that Tali and Shepard did go all the way? Yes, I know you could imply that they did from the conversation after, but since physical contact is such a huge deal for Quarians, I could see her being just as excited that if she just kissed him and let him grope her through her suit. I always found it a bit of a (I hate this word) "recon" that a woman from a race that was so paranoid about the smallest exposure to foreign biology would have gone "all the way" and just got the flu.

[Aurellia]

Strephon Gentry wrote...
Actually, you are taking it to an extreme there. You have to remember that this is a video game. Not a political statement. A toggle just gives the gamer the choice on the romances. Just as if there was a sexuality option in the character creation process. Yes, you might miss out on some dialog but I honestly don't believe missing that bit of dialog would ruin the story.

And if you do, then you could always get the missing dialog in an other playthrough like you can with going through one time as a paragon and another as a renagade.

But once again, it all comes down to perferences. The "relationships" are a nice addition but not realy needed in over all story and the story is really why we are all playing the game after all. 

Actually I was just explaining why a toggle might be offensive to some people.

My position is that you can accomplish the same goals with a gift system as you can with a toggle.  The toggle offers no advantages over the gift system has the following disadvantages:

- takes away flexibility for players.  A player may choose allow same sex and then halfway through find the dialog a bit too dicey for them.  Now they have wasted a whole half playthrough.  In the case of a gift system they just have to reload the save from before they gave the gift or some later point where they can decline the relationship.
- Offensive to some of the player base for the reasons I argued.  You may find their concerns silly or only reserved for political statements but to these members of the minority class they should not be dismissed as inappropriate.  You have nor more right to dismiss their offense as they have to dismiss your offense at having same sex content shoved in your face.

Modifié par bioware-sucks, 22 mai 2011 - 11:03 .

[Abispa]

Porter98 wrote...

BioWare ajusting the game so that male Shepard can persue a same sex romance is an incredibly brave move. I believe this needs to be done for one simple reason, to get it over with. We need a very succesfull game, something better than DA2, with an Iconic male character that can be played as either gay or bi depending the individual player's interpertation. If this can done well, then other games will be able to do it with less fear and maybe just maybe, we can push foward the idea of acceptance just a tiny bit foward.

The reason why I mention only male Shepard is because it is my feeling that is the one that makes many people very uneasy. As for people who may be offended by stumbling on to that content in game, I don't have a good solution. Maybe the gift system or toggle system mention'd by others might work, but something tells me those are bad idea's. Me personlly I'm a big boy and I'm not soo easily offended.

I personally will not be playing this optional content, never been my thing. But I salute BioWare for taking this risky move, it takes guts to do it and I hope they do it well.

Tis cool. Hang out and argue construtively with the rest of us.