6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Lenimph]

Religious... Lesbian...

Tis been done 

Modifié par Lenimph, 23 mai 2011 - 06:30 .

[ADLegend21]

makenzieshepard wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

It's fine it people don't want the previous characters to be bisexual.  But to say they can't be bisexual because of <insert idiotic reason that proves they have no clue about the basic workings of sexuality in a sentient species here> is what causes pretty much all of the arguing in this thread. 
My personal beserk button is that Ashley can't be gay because she is religious... God help us all if anyone tries to bring that up when I'm on

Someone just brought that up in the Ash thread. I handled it though.

Excellent! If they try to argue remember this quote:

There are 6 admonishments in the Bible concerning homosexual activity and our enemies are always throwing them up to us usually in a vicious way and very much out of context. What they don't want us to remember is that there are 362 admonishments in the Bible concerning heterosexual activity. I don't mean to imply by this that God doesn't love straight people, only that they seem to require a great deal more supervision."   ~Lynn Lavner

Copied and pasted.

[jeweledleah]

or you could just tell them about Dan Savage... you know that guy who started the "it gets better" campaign, who just happens to have a catholic family, a family that accepts him and his partner.

the Liara quote is real, its all in ME1 sound files - just illustrating that just because something was recorded, it doesn't automatically make it canon.

[Sahariel]

makenzieshepard wrote...

It's fine it people don't want the previous characters to be bisexual.  But to say they can't be bisexual because of <insert idiotic reason that proves they have no clue about the basic workings of sexuality in a sentient species here> is what causes pretty much all of the arguing in this thread. 
My personal beserk button is that Ashley can't be gay because she is religious... God help us all if anyone tries to bring that up when I'm on

I don't mind some li's being bisexual, I just don't want every li to be bisexual. Kaiden wouldn't surprise me if he was bi, although Ashley would, and religon is only a minor part of that equation. That is not to say the religon aspect precludes a same sex pairing with Ashley, after all there is about as much page real estate in the bible devoted to bans on homosexual behaviour as there is on eating pork, and that is soundly ignored in this day and age. However it is still viewed as taboo for many christians., so whilst I wouldn't consider that grounds on it's own it does I believe contribute.

The more compelling reason I see for Ashley being purely hetero is simply that she is something of a plain talking, straight shooting, and above all unapologetic character. As such I can't see her being so forthright in all other aspects of her life, and then all of a sudden become a shy retiring wallflower when it comes to f/f romance. I mean she isn't exactly backwards in coming fowards with mshep, I would have thought if she had that dimension to her character we would have seen some hint of it so far, even if it was to just flirt with a random female npc at some point.

I will of course concede the point that with some absolutely stellar writing, such an aspect could be incorpororated into her character, but based on DA2 I did find that the making all the li's bi, made the romantic relationships a bit generic for me. Not saying it can't be done, just that it would be tougher. I would argue that being the case, and with my anti all bi stance, it would make more sense to make characters that already have a much stronger case for the personalities bieng bi.

The Kaiden/Ashley is an interesting case in point as Kaiden was the example of the character who was easiest to interpret as bi from the old Fight for the Love thread, and I think as it is harder to argue the same for Ashley then that is fora  good reason.

Modifié par Sahariel, 23 mai 2011 - 06:46 .

[jeweledleah]

how is Kaidan easiest to interpret as bi? are we speaking in stereotypes again? Kaidan is pretty straight forward, he's just more diplomatic then Ashley. he doesn't hesitate to express his opinions or disapproval, he just doesn't do it as harshly as Ash. He is just as unlikely to hide his feelings as Ash - he doesn't hide them from femshep after all, even while trying to keep it professional. everything that I have seen that people used to explain why Kaidan would make a "good gay" is stereotyping load of horse puke. "he has nice hair, he is sensitive, he's handsome, he's nice, he cares about your feelings, he is diplomatic, thoughtful, he takes sex and relationships seriously"... right. all the character traits that apparently men who are just straight cannot posses - only gay or bi men are allowed to.

THIS is my berserk button. this sort of ridiculous stereotyping that's insulting to men of all sexualities.

personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.

[Sahariel]

Lenimph wrote...

Religious... Lesbian...

Tis been done 

Hmmmm she's bisexual surely? Otherwise my male Warden had a very confusing playthrough, also The Chantry in the Dragon Age series, is not the same as Christianity.  There may be analogous aspects between the two in some cases, however The Bible does condemn homosexuality, the chantry doesn't.

For the record into more modern theological interpretations, it is mentioned with about as much frequency and forcefullness as not eating pork, but still a lot of christians do that. The point is that while one can be a good christian and be gay or bi in my own opinion, that isn't the majority view of many christians.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah. I could see saying "oh I hink he's bi because he treats dude shep like X compared to everyone else's Y." but because of his personality?

Uh...no.

I will squee so happily if Joker is the bi option.

Ah Joker.

[Fault Girl]

jeweledleah wrote...

how is Kaidan easiest to interpret as bi? are we speaking in stereotypes again? Kaidan is pretty straight forward, he's just more diplomatic then Ashley. he doesn't hesitate to express his opinions or disapproval, he just doesn't do it as harshly as Ash. He is just as unlikely to hide his feelings as Ash - he doesn't hide them from femshep after all, even while trying to keep it professional. everything that I have seen that people used to explain why Kaidan would make a "good gay" is stereotyping load of horse puke. "he has nice hair, he is sensitive, he's handsome, he's nice, he cares about your feelings, he is diplomatic, thoughtful, he takes sex and relationships seriously"... right. all the character traits that apparently men who are just straight cannot posses - only gay or bi men are allowed to.

THIS is my berserk button. this sort of ridiculous stereotyping that's insulting to men of all sexualities.

personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.

+1

I have no issue if he is in ME3 but the reasoning above (as you state and I agree with ) doesnt make him a more obvious choice.  Plenty of nice guys out there, doesn't mean they are gay!

All I want in ME3 in regards to Kaidan is the loyalists (romance from ME1, faithful in ME2) get something extra to the people who start romance in ME3. Then I'd be a happy bunny.

I have got a Femshep who might like to have a girlfriend, but going to wait and see who they announce later in the year...

Modifié par ZombieGeisha, 23 mai 2011 - 07:18 .

[SilentNukee]

[lolwut666]

One thing they should *not* include is gay banter.

They should leave the same sex romance dialogue as ambiguous as possible.

Hearing Shepard say s*** like "Come here, big boy" and "I like the way you look in those pants" to another male would be extremely awkward and disgusting. Females should get the same treatment.

[GameBoyish]

JOKER ROMANCE FTW!


Please tell me that this is what the 12 hours worth of dialogue is for........... *prays*

[Ryzaki]

Oh hellz yeah.

12 hours of Joker dialogue? So much win.

Even more win if romance is included in that .

[KawaiiKatie]

TriviaAeducan wrote...

BISEXUAL JOKER ROMANCE FTW!

Fixed that for you.

My heart will explode if Joker plays for both teams. I want it that bad. <3

[lolwut666]

Quit it with the Joker romance bollocks, you selfish, perverted f***s...

You'd break his legs if you rode him, and it doesn't even fit the concept of his character. He is a comic relief, and he is also a withdraw (said to have been raised inside a ship his whole life) guy who is thoroughly and single-mindedly devoted to his piloting craft (one of the first things he says in ME2 is that the Normandy "was the only thing that mattered to me"), and he is already in a platonic relationship with EDI that I really can't see why would you want to interrupt, because they're great together; many lulz get.

Stop trying to ruin characters to satisfy your perverse fantasies.

[ElitePinecone]

lolwut666: Enough with the swearing and insults. Argue your case reasonably or don't argue it here at all. Calling people perverted won't help them consider whatever it is you're trying to say. Next time will mean reporting.

Didn't a Bioware dev hint that they had something planned for Joker in ME3?

[KawaiiKatie]

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how hot this is...



(Mad props to Aimo for the awesome art!)

[Nashiktal]

lolwut666 wrote...

Quit it with the Joker romance bollocks, you selfish, perverted f***s...

You'd break his legs if you rode him, and it doesn't even fit the concept of his character. He is a comic relief, and he is also a withdraw (said to have been raised inside a ship his whole life) guy who is thoroughly and single-mindedly devoted to his piloting craft (one of the first things he says in ME2 is that the Normandy "was the only thing that mattered to me"), and he is already in a platonic relationship with EDI that I really can't see why would you want to interrupt, because they're great together; many lulz get.

Stop trying to ruin characters to satisfy your perverse fantasies.

Your rage and the fact that you imagined joker sex fills me with pleasure.

[Zulmoka531]

jeweledleah wrote...

how is Kaidan easiest to interpret as bi? are we speaking in stereotypes again? Kaidan is pretty straight forward, he's just more diplomatic then Ashley. he doesn't hesitate to express his opinions or disapproval, he just doesn't do it as harshly as Ash. He is just as unlikely to hide his feelings as Ash - he doesn't hide them from femshep after all, even while trying to keep it professional. everything that I have seen that people used to explain why Kaidan would make a "good gay" is stereotyping load of horse puke. "he has nice hair, he is sensitive, he's handsome, he's nice, he cares about your feelings, he is diplomatic, thoughtful, he takes sex and relationships seriously"... right. all the character traits that apparently men who are just straight cannot posses - only gay or bi men are allowed to.

THIS is my berserk button. this sort of ridiculous stereotyping that's insulting to men of all sexualities.

personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.

I think a lot of people on both sides of this argument, fail to see things that way friend.

[lolwut666]

@ElitePinecone

The fact that you need to be sweet-talked to see reason and that you hold onto tactless opinions out of pettiness shows that you're not even worth trying to convince. What I said goes double to you.

@Nashiktal

Yeah, you really seem like the kind to pleasure yourself often.

[Ryzaki]

If Joker can run around  (granted it's more of a hobble but the point stands), climb through ducts, shoot a gun, hold on to Shepard (in full armor no less!) until Shepard forces him to let go, I'm pretty sure he can handle some sex with Shepard. Male or female. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 mai 2011 - 09:20 .

[KawaiiKatie]

Also, I'd like to point out that bisexual Jokermance would be comedy gold.
(Props to ElysianOrchid and Gone-Batty on DevART.)

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 23 mai 2011 - 09:21 .

[Ryzaki]

I just died.

Thank you KawaiiKatie. That is glorious. And so saved. XD

[JediMB]

jeweledleah wrote...

how is Kaidan easiest to interpret as bi? are we speaking in stereotypes again? Kaidan is pretty straight forward, he's just more diplomatic then Ashley. he doesn't hesitate to express his opinions or disapproval, he just doesn't do it as harshly as Ash. He is just as unlikely to hide his feelings as Ash - he doesn't hide them from femshep after all, even while trying to keep it professional. everything that I have seen that people used to explain why Kaidan would make a "good gay" is stereotyping load of horse puke. "he has nice hair, he is sensitive, he's handsome, he's nice, he cares about your feelings, he is diplomatic, thoughtful, he takes sex and relationships seriously"... right. all the character traits that apparently men who are just straight cannot posses - only gay or bi men are allowed to.

THIS is my berserk button. this sort of ridiculous stereotyping that's insulting to men of all sexualities.

personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.
personality =/=sexuality.

An important difference between Ashley and Kaidan, as I see it, is that it was possible for Ashley to see a female Shepard's interest in Liara, but Kaidan would have no way to know about a male Shepard's interest in men.

(Of course they shouldn't assume that Shepard is straight either, but that's what people do.)

[JediMB]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Also, I'd like to point out that bisexual Jokermance would be comedy gold.
(Props to ElysianOrchid and Gone-Batty on DevART.)

http://th03.devianta...ysianOrchid.jpg

Heh

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pitt

[Nashiktal]

lolwut666 wrote...

@ElitePinecone

The fact that you need to be sweet-talked to see reason and that you hold onto tactless opinions out of pettiness shows that you're not even worth trying to convince. What I said goes double to you.

@Nashiktal

Yeah, you really seem like the kind to pleasure yourself often.

I'm flattered you imagined that about me. 

I'd also like to point out while you do have an over active imagination, you seem fairly limited in what you imagine.

For example, thinking that sex with joker could only entail straddling him. 

Modifié par Nashiktal, 23 mai 2011 - 09:28 .