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[Ghost Warrior]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...
Let's see: h
- he sleeps with Miranda and lightly flirts with every female on the ship
- he never shows even the slightest interest in any male
- when Mordin for some unknown reason assumes Shepard is attracted to him,Shepard literally laughs to his face

There is no need for words,actions speak for themselves.

And that's not proof.  He could be overcompensating and in denial of his attractions to men.  Or he could be bisexual with a preference to women and is simply not into salarians.

Okay,now you are expanding your denial on Shepard. Don't!
The fact is that BioWare didn't make Shepard gay in over 80 hours of first two games and now they do because of the pressure of raging fans.

[TheMarshal]

Razorsedge820 wrote...

Yes in fact I loved it because it made sense, but for them to suddenly show their affection towards the same sex Shep in the third game would make no sense storywise, they had their chance. If Garrus and Tali were heterosexual in ME2 to begin with I would have no problem with it but since this is not the case I am not a fan of it in the third game from a character development stand point.

How/why did it 'make sense'?  Neither of them in ME1 ever expressed any romantic interest in anyone, but in ME2 they suddenly  have an interest in Shepard?  (I'm assuming you meant 'homosexual/bisexual in ME2 to begin with')

[Clonedzero]

shepard is whatever you want him/her/it to be.
i like to think of shepard as a giant block of featureless meat that you carve yourself into your ideal badass space hero.

what his or her meat bits are, or what he chooses to do with his meat bits is well your choice right?

[Wereparrot]

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

My opinions may already have been expressed, but they weren't on the first page and I'm not reading all these pages, so here goes.

Regardless of any rubbish you may give me about Liara, who is neither male nor female but something entirely different according to the nature of the asari existence, Shepherd was established in ME1 as straight. Bioware had an opportunity to make Shepherd bi with ME2 and they missed it, and an opportunity of this kind will not present itself again. Bioware have brought their flagship franchise into disrepute, and compromised the integrity of the main character. All I will say is: political correctness is a poor substitute for character integrity. The same thing happened with Anders in DAII: by what he said in Awakening he is clearly straight, but Bioware raped his character in DAII for whatever reason.

"Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up."

Explain please? Are you trying to deny that ME1 ever happened?

You're trying to deny that asari are female, when they clearly, you know, give birth to baby asari. And Shepard wasn't "established" as anything in ME1, because Shepard didn't HAVE to pursue romance AT ALL. Shepard can tell Liara AND Ashley "how about no", then in ME2 tell Miranda, Jack, and Tali "how about no". So what exactly has been "established" for ALL MALE SHEPARDS, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Asari are also fathers, so like I said in my first post: don't give me any of this arogant rubbish. You cannot take Bioware's creation and make it your own. 

If Shepherd doesn't pursue a romance, that doesn't make his character any less straight, because Bioware decided that the available romances would be straight, as they were in ME2, apart from the aimless fraterrnisation with Kelly for female Shepherds.

[Darth Death]

Siansonea II wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

Darth Death wrote...
They're some people claiming the male shep could be ******; that the option was there from the start. But at the same time no one provided me with any evidence. No one. *sigh*

No. They're saying their male shepard can be gay. They're not talking about the Shepard you play.

For the third time Darth, why does it bother you so much that someone else, in some other part of the world, in a totally different playthrough with a completely different looking male Shepard might be romancing a dude?

What - are you going to go look up the dude scenes on youtube? Are you going to pursue the male romance?

I don't pursue straight romances in DA2. It's really easy. 

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I mean give me an example that your male shep is gay. What are the things you had done to achieve this? How did you make your male shep gay?

How about not sleeping with any of the curvaceous babes that make eyes at him? And who says there's an onus upon anyone to "prove" their Shepard is gay? If people want to roleplay a gay Shepard, there's nothing in the game preventing them from doing that, even if the first two games don't offer any opportunities to state it explicitly.

That's the point I was trying to make. Thank you! My initial argument was the lack of continuity, nothing more or less.

[SennenScale]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

That said, we're still left in a position where Bioware removed all traces of his homosexuality from one playthrough. In that case, it's either lazy writing to not put in any subtle hints anywhere, or somebody made a conscious decision to "un-gay" him.

I guess I just hope we get better than that in ME3.

As do I. If Anders can talk about his experience with Isabela, being straightfoward about that Tranquil made really should be there as well. I hope ME3 does better in that regard.

[TheMarshal]

Wereparrot wrote...

Asari are also fathers, so like I said in my first post: don't give me any of this arogant rubbish. You cannot take Bioware's creation and make it your own. 

If Shepherd doesn't pursue a romance, that doesn't make his character any less straight, because Bioware decided that the available romances would be straight, as they were in ME2, apart from the aimless fraterrnisation with Kelly for female Shepherds.

Human females can also be 'fathers' to asari daughters.

[InvaderErl]

I'm going to repost this (once) simply because it got left at the very end of the page and its an issue I think is being buried under people arguing whether or not their Shepard is gay or not (which is the thread beginning to circle itself):

My larger concern and it has nothing to do with some kind of a fear of being hit on by a dude (which is childish), or my Shepard somehow turning gay (which is ridiculous) but rather what kind of impact is this going to have IF characters already engaged in a romance turn out to be Shep-sexual (a term and concept which is ****ing stupid).

Because nobody seems to have addressed how this can possibly work out because as it stands any person romancing let's say Jack or Tali or Garrus is going to have to play catchup to the Shepards that already romanced them in ME2. The thing is does that mean Bioware is going to have to record voice work for a character that now needs a non-romantic path/ a romantic path and now a s/s path for players essentially showing up late? None of those paths are going to suffer or becoming generic and vague like we saw in DA2, especially when you consider that they are optional characters that might not even be present?

My concern is losing the specificity of things like Garrus complimenting a FemShep according to Turian standards of femininity or basic crap like Tali actually using male pronouns or gender specific body language in cutscenes in exchange for DA2's nonsense. Especially when we could potentially use either characters like Samara who are already set up for s/s or use newcomers like James Vega to fill those roles without compromising what we already have in place.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 16 mai 2011 - 04:45 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
Okay,now you are expanding your denial on Shepard. Don't!
The fact is that BioWare didn't make Shepard gay in over 80 hours of first two games and now they do because of the pressure of raging fans.

I'm not in denial about anything.  I was merely pointing out that your "proof" of Shepard being straight was not proof.

[Ghost Warrior]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...
But the thing is that up until recently,Shepard wasn't able to be whatever orientation you wanted,and now he suddenly is. That is the problem,don't you see unconsistancy?

That's not an inconsistency.  Shepard was never forced into being straight.  You assumed that dudeSheps had to be straight because he couldn't initiate a romance at the time.  That's an assumption, IE not a fact.  And apparently said assumption was wrong and now you're in denial and desperately pointing to all the "manly straight things" your Shepard has done to prove how straight he is.

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

[Olwydd]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Let's see: h
- he sleeps with Miranda and lightly flirts with every female on the ship
- he never shows even the slightest interest in any male
- when Mordin for some unknown reason assumes Shepard is attracted to him,Shepard literally laughs to his face

There is no need for words,actions speak for themselves.

Again, absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Ghost Warrior wrote...

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

My point was to illustrate the absurdity of requiring Shepard to explicitly state preference to validate preference. There is never sufficient evidence present within the game to pinpoint Shepard's sexuality. What makes up the difference is your internal roleplaying. The same logic that states that DudeShep can't be gay can be used to state that DudeShep doesn't like blonds or Japanese girls, or doesn't sleep or go to the bathroom. It doesn't hold up, because we have to acknowledge that there's more to Shep than exists in the game we play. A lot of it is in your mind.  It has to be.

Modifié par Olwydd, 16 mai 2011 - 04:52 .

[MACharlie1]

Unfortunatly, I believe that several posters here have the preconceived notion that if Shepard is attracted to other guys then he'll become a prancing faerie who enjoys shoes and sayin: "oh no she didn't!" Shame really...what difference does it really make? Would you reject your best bro if he said that he thinks he's into guys?

[Clonedzero]

well if a gay dude is on a spaceship with a bunch of straight people he's not exactly going to have a thrilling love life is he?

[TheMarshal]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

I'm curious...  In your eyes, are single Shepards straight despite never having "been straight" in a romance?

[RohanDaKitty]

Ryzaki wrote...

RohanDaKitty wrote...

I think the fact this is annouced after the pushed back release date could be an indicator that this was not going to be sometihng in ME3.

This does depend on what it is that caused the game to be delayed in the first place. But I'd put a good bet on Multiplayer and whilst you have staff working on that component of the game, there may be staff with nothing or less to do. So they utilise that time by including other content that may have perviously been cut due to time constraints.

Just as when a game releases and there's already DLC avaliable for it, on day one. It's because the core game has been sent to a different department, testing the game and fixing bugs, etc, and you have some staff who were previously busy making the game who're twiddling their thumbs. So they get put to work on DLC as the core game goes through quality control.

 

I'm notsure on that. They've revealed that there's going to be friendships as well. Would that have not been in ME3 if the date hadn't been pushed back? I doubt it. 

There's no multiplayer. That's been debunked thank the heavesn. 

There's already DLC because they have a DLC crew. The gay romances and squad friendships would need to flow seamlessly. You can't just hack that into the game. Seb for instance while a romance is chaste and no one else reacts to his romance. You also (supposedly) can't flirt with anyone else and do hsi romance (it bugs though and you can). No one reacts to it though. You're never given a confrontaion. It exists in its own little bubble. 

You can't do that with s/s romances. I'm pretty sure it would need to be art of the core game because characters will end up reacting to that (if you cheat on them or leave them for the s/s LI). 

It's true that I am speculating. But it's even possible this was planned, from the start. And the right amount of resources have been allocated to al the romances. As it's always been a popular feature of the franchise, and Bioware games in general.

I don't think they would sacrifice all, if needed. I think you'll merely find the Same-sex romances are lacking. (I'm thinking 'Fable', which in 1 & 2 at least, felt very 'Hacked in')

Mass Effect 2 was hugely succesful. It won over 100 GOTY awards. I think there's precedent here for EA to give Bioware a really good amount of time and money to make this game, and make it right.

And I really think the delay shows that. I too hope it wont be shoved onto store shelves, half cooked.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

He was never able to be into quarians either, until ME2.

So now in ME3 we finally have the solid, undeniable proof that Shepard can be officially and undeniably gay instead of "ambiguously gay" due to lack of sexual partner.

So... what's your point again?  Shepard has to be straight because he could only explicitly show sexual interest in women?  And you're sticking to that just because?  Yeah, that sounds like denial.

[streamlock]

At least we finally know the real reason why John Shep was walking so funny during all of ME2......



Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Modifié par streamlock, 16 mai 2011 - 04:51 .

[Ryzaki]

InvaderErl wrote...

I'm going to repost this (once) simply because it got left at the very end of the page and its an issue I think is being buried under people arguing whether or not their Shepard is gay or not (which is the thread beginning to circle itself):

My larger concern and it has nothing to do with some kind of a fear of being hit on by a dude (which is childish), or my Shepard somehow turning gay (which is ridiculous) but rather what kind of impact is this going to have IF characters already engaged in a romance turn out to be Shep-sexual (a term and concept which is ****ing stupid).

Because nobody seems to have addressed how this can possibly work out because as it stands any person romancing let's say Jack or Tali or Garrus is going to have to play catchup to the Shepards that already romanced them in ME2. The thing is does that mean Bioware is going to have to record voice work for a character that now needs a non-romantic path/ a romantic path and now a s/s path for players essentially showing up late? None of those paths are going to suffer or becoming generic and vague like we saw in DA2, especially when you consider that they are optional characters that might not even be present?

My concern is losing the specificity of things like Garrus complimenting a FemShep according to Turian standards of femininity or basic crap like Tali actually using male pronouns or gender specific body language in cutscenes in exchange for DA2's nonsense. Especially when we could potentially use either characters like Samara who are already set up for s/s or use newcomers like James Vega to fill those roles without compromising what we already have in place.

Yes like Merrill having differen dialogue for fem Hawke and Male Hawke, and Anders having a different romance approach to a female vs a male, Isabela talking about girly fun and Fenris mentioning that it might be different with a man like Hawke. 

Yes they totally ignored Hawke's gender. <_< Sorry to burst your bubble but I felt my gender was more referenced in the DA2's romances than the ME3 ones. If you want to rag on DA2 fine. Just don't pull bull**** out to prove some point. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 04:49 .

[The Halfman]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

Proof of absance is not absance of proof, to think so is mindlessness, however there has been no sign of attraction between any bar kelly who distinctly states it.

The only evidance is that sheperds are able to flirt and have relationships with people of the opposate gender. Whilst that is not inconclusive it is still indecisive, Unlikely not Impossable.

Realy all your doing is stateing false logic and annoying everyone else on this thread.

[Siansonea]

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

My opinions may already have been expressed, but they weren't on the first page and I'm not reading all these pages, so here goes.

Regardless of any rubbish you may give me about Liara, who is neither male nor female but something entirely different according to the nature of the asari existence, Shepherd was established in ME1 as straight. Bioware had an opportunity to make Shepherd bi with ME2 and they missed it, and an opportunity of this kind will not present itself again. Bioware have brought their flagship franchise into disrepute, and compromised the integrity of the main character. All I will say is: political correctness is a poor substitute for character integrity. The same thing happened with Anders in DAII: by what he said in Awakening he is clearly straight, but Bioware raped his character in DAII for whatever reason.

"Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up."

Explain please? Are you trying to deny that ME1 ever happened?

You're trying to deny that asari are female, when they clearly, you know, give birth to baby asari. And Shepard wasn't "established" as anything in ME1, because Shepard didn't HAVE to pursue romance AT ALL. Shepard can tell Liara AND Ashley "how about no", then in ME2 tell Miranda, Jack, and Tali "how about no". So what exactly has been "established" for ALL MALE SHEPARDS, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Asari are also fathers, so like I said in my first post: don't give me any of this arogant rubbish. You cannot take Bioware's creation and make it your own. 

If Shepherd doesn't pursue a romance, that doesn't make his character any less straight, because Bioware decided that the available romances would be straight, as they were in ME2, apart from the aimless fraterrnisation with Kelly for female Shepherds.

I'm not doing anything of the kind. A human female can "father" an asari child. Does that make her a man? Clearly you're the one attempting to rewrite the Codex, pal.

You know what happens when you don't pursue romance? You remain UNDECLARED. Your simplistic notion is like saying everyone who you've never seen eat Mexican food automatically prefers Chinese food.

[Herakleia]

From a writing perspective, a bisexual Ashley Williams would be an interesting piece of character development. My paragon femshep kept her alive and let Kaidan die, though she ended up with Liara. Ashley looked low maintenance, though.....

[Ryzaki]

RohanDaKitty wrote...
It's true that I am speculating. But it's even possible this was planned, from the start. And the right amount of resources have been allocated to al the romances. As it's always been a popular feature of the franchise, and Bioware games in general.

I don't think they would sacrifice all, if needed. I think you'll merely find the Same-sex romances are lacking. (I'm thinking 'Fable', which in 1 & 2 at least, felt very 'Hacked in')

Mass Effect 2 was hugely succesful. It won over 100 GOTY awards. I think there's precedent here for EA to give Bioware a really good amount of time and money to make this game, and make it right.

And I really think the delay shows that. I too hope it wont be shoved onto store shelves, half cooked.

I'd compare it more to JE or something than FAble. Fable's character development is laughable. All the "romances" are shallow s/s or not. I doubt I'd find them that lacking. 

Perhaps. DAO was successful as well and we all know what happened with DA2.  ME3 does have the benefit of not being rushed as all hell though. 

Agreed. 

[Siansonea]

Darth Death wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

Darth Death wrote...
They're some people claiming the male shep could be ******; that the option was there from the start. But at the same time no one provided me with any evidence. No one. *sigh*

No. They're saying their male shepard can be gay. They're not talking about the Shepard you play.

For the third time Darth, why does it bother you so much that someone else, in some other part of the world, in a totally different playthrough with a completely different looking male Shepard might be romancing a dude?

What - are you going to go look up the dude scenes on youtube? Are you going to pursue the male romance?

I don't pursue straight romances in DA2. It's really easy. 

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I mean give me an example that your male shep is gay. What are the things you had done to achieve this? How did you make your male shep gay?

How about not sleeping with any of the curvaceous babes that make eyes at him? And who says there's an onus upon anyone to "prove" their Shepard is gay? If people want to roleplay a gay Shepard, there's nothing in the game preventing them from doing that, even if the first two games don't offer any opportunities to state it explicitly.

That's the point I was trying to make. Thank you! My initial argument was the lack of continuity, nothing more or less.

Well, genius, by your logic Shepard should never have been able to romance Garrus and Tali in the second game. After all, if he/she wasn't able to state an attraction explicitly in the first game, then it's a lack of continuity. By YOUR "logic" I mean. 

[Clonedzero]

Herakleia wrote...

From a writing perspective, a bisexual Ashley Williams would be an interesting piece of character development. My paragon femshep kept her alive and let Kaidan die, though she ended up with Liara. Ashley looked low maintenance, though.....

oh shes not. believe me.

you die for awhile, then go hangout with terrorists for a bit and she'll never let you live it down. blah blah traitor this, and blah blah betrayed me that.

*sigh* women!

am i right guys?!

Modifié par Clonedzero, 16 mai 2011 - 04:54 .