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[Darth Death]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...
BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

He was never able to be into quarians either, until ME2.

So now in ME3 we finally have the solid, undeniable proof that Shepard can be officially and undeniably gay instead of "ambiguously gay" due to lack of sexual partner.

So... what's your point again?  Shepard has to be straight because he could only explicitly show sexual interest in women?  And you're sticking to that just because?  Yeah, that sounds like denial.

He may not have been into quarians specifically in the first game, but he was into asari which is an alien. So yea...  

[RohanDaKitty]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...
But the thing is that up until recently,Shepard wasn't able to be whatever orientation you wanted,and now he suddenly is. That is the problem,don't you see unconsistancy?

That's not an inconsistency.  Shepard was never forced into being straight.  You assumed that dudeSheps had to be straight because he couldn't initiate a romance at the time.  That's an assumption, IE not a fact.  And apparently said assumption was wrong and now you're in denial and desperately pointing to all the "manly straight things" your Shepard has done to prove how straight he is.

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

Irrelevant.

It's been a heavily talked about feature by many ME fans and players and Bioware decided to incorporate it into ME3. For those who wanted it.

It doesn't affect you at all. It only goes to make the game more enjoyable for those who have wanted to do this.

[MACharlie1]

RohanDaKitty wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...
But the thing is that up until recently,Shepard wasn't able to be whatever orientation you wanted,and now he suddenly is. That is the problem,don't you see unconsistancy?

That's not an inconsistency.  Shepard was never forced into being straight.  You assumed that dudeSheps had to be straight because he couldn't initiate a romance at the time.  That's an assumption, IE not a fact.  And apparently said assumption was wrong and now you're in denial and desperately pointing to all the "manly straight things" your Shepard has done to prove how straight he is.

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

Irrelevant.

It's been a heavily talked about feature by many ME fans and players and Bioware decided to incorporate it into ME3. For those who wanted it.

It doesn't affect you at all. It only goes to make the game more enjoyable for those who have wanted to do this.

But because he knows that a character is homosexual, it just makes him feel all squick inside and now he can't talk to him or bring him on any missions because he might hit on him and rape him in his sleep. <_< 

[Siansonea]

InvaderErl wrote...

I'm going to repost this (once) simply because it got left at the very end of the page and its an issue I think is being buried under people arguing whether or not their Shepard is gay or not (which is the thread beginning to circle itself):

My larger concern and it has nothing to do with some kind of a fear of being hit on by a dude (which is childish), or my Shepard somehow turning gay (which is ridiculous) but rather what kind of impact is this going to have IF characters already engaged in a romance turn out to be Shep-sexual (a term and concept which is ****ing stupid).

Because nobody seems to have addressed how this can possibly work out because as it stands any person romancing let's say Jack or Tali or Garrus is going to have to play catchup to the Shepards that already romanced them in ME2. The thing is does that mean Bioware is going to have to record voice work for a character that now needs a non-romantic path/ a romantic path and now a s/s path for players essentially showing up late? None of those paths are going to suffer or becoming generic and vague like we saw in DA2, especially when you consider that they are optional characters that might not even be present?

My concern is losing the specificity of things like Garrus complimenting a FemShep according to Turian standards of femininity or basic crap like Tali actually using male pronouns or gender specific body language in cutscenes in exchange for DA2's nonsense. Especially when we could potentially use either characters like Samara who are already set up for s/s or use newcomers like James Vega to fill those roles without compromising what we already have in place.

So there's some pronoun changes. Characters have to record pronoun alternates for non-romance dialog as it is, why is this such a big deal? Maybe there will be some gender specific lines here and there, as in ME2, but we're not talking about mountains of content here. We're talking about alternate audio tracks for the most part. Not really seeing the concern here, please tell me if I've missed the point you're trying to make.

[Ryzaki]

Sian: there ARE differences.  Only people I hear saying its just pronouns changes are people who didn't do the m/m versions of the romance (or bother watching youtube vids or hell even talking to people who did the gay romances). 

And where is all this acknowledgement of your gender in the ME2 romances?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 05:00 .

[Siansonea]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...
But the thing is that up until recently,Shepard wasn't able to be whatever orientation you wanted,and now he suddenly is. That is the problem,don't you see unconsistancy?

That's not an inconsistency.  Shepard was never forced into being straight.  You assumed that dudeSheps had to be straight because he couldn't initiate a romance at the time.  That's an assumption, IE not a fact.  And apparently said assumption was wrong and now you're in denial and desperately pointing to all the "manly straight things" your Shepard has done to prove how straight he is.

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

AND HE WAS NEVER REQUIRED TO BE STRAIGHT OUTSIDE OF YOUR MIND.

[SNascimento]

 My next Shepard: Adolft H. Shepard  
.
Just kidding. But I wound't mind teach people good manners with my fists though. 

[Clonedzero]

Siansonea II wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

I'm going to repost this (once) simply because it got left at the very end of the page and its an issue I think is being buried under people arguing whether or not their Shepard is gay or not (which is the thread beginning to circle itself):

My larger concern and it has nothing to do with some kind of a fear of being hit on by a dude (which is childish), or my Shepard somehow turning gay (which is ridiculous) but rather what kind of impact is this going to have IF characters already engaged in a romance turn out to be Shep-sexual (a term and concept which is ****ing stupid).

Because nobody seems to have addressed how this can possibly work out because as it stands any person romancing let's say Jack or Tali or Garrus is going to have to play catchup to the Shepards that already romanced them in ME2. The thing is does that mean Bioware is going to have to record voice work for a character that now needs a non-romantic path/ a romantic path and now a s/s path for players essentially showing up late? None of those paths are going to suffer or becoming generic and vague like we saw in DA2, especially when you consider that they are optional characters that might not even be present?

My concern is losing the specificity of things like Garrus complimenting a FemShep according to Turian standards of femininity or basic crap like Tali actually using male pronouns or gender specific body language in cutscenes in exchange for DA2's nonsense. Especially when we could potentially use either characters like Samara who are already set up for s/s or use newcomers like James Vega to fill those roles without compromising what we already have in place.

So there's some pronoun changes. Characters have to record pronoun alternates for non-romance dialog as it is, why is this such a big deal? Maybe there will be some gender specific lines here and there, as in ME2, but we're not talking about mountains of content here. We're talking about alternate audio tracks for the most part. Not really seeing the concern here, please tell me if I've missed the point you're trying to make.

if the only difference between the m/m and m/f romance are a couple of pronouns then they should probably just leave them out of the game because tahts cheap and lazy.

[Darth Death]

Siansonea II wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

Darth Death wrote...
They're some people claiming the male shep could be ******; that the option was there from the start. But at the same time no one provided me with any evidence. No one. *sigh*

No. They're saying their male shepard can be gay. They're not talking about the Shepard you play.

For the third time Darth, why does it bother you so much that someone else, in some other part of the world, in a totally different playthrough with a completely different looking male Shepard might be romancing a dude?

What - are you going to go look up the dude scenes on youtube? Are you going to pursue the male romance?

I don't pursue straight romances in DA2. It's really easy. 

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I mean give me an example that your male shep is gay. What are the things you had done to achieve this? How did you make your male shep gay?

How about not sleeping with any of the curvaceous babes that make eyes at him? And who says there's an onus upon anyone to "prove" their Shepard is gay? If people want to roleplay a gay Shepard, there's nothing in the game preventing them from doing that, even if the first two games don't offer any opportunities to state it explicitly.

That's the point I was trying to make. Thank you! My initial argument was the lack of continuity, nothing more or less.

Well, genius, by your logic Shepard should never have been able to romance Garrus and Tali in the second game. After all, if he/she wasn't able to state an attraction explicitly in the first game, then it's a lack of continuity. By YOUR "logic" I mean. 

Spare me. You already proved my point. Anything you say to me beyond this is insignificant. 

[Ryzaki]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

I'm going to repost this (once) simply because it got left at the very end of the page and its an issue I think is being buried under people arguing whether or not their Shepard is gay or not (which is the thread beginning to circle itself):

My larger concern and it has nothing to do with some kind of a fear of being hit on by a dude (which is childish), or my Shepard somehow turning gay (which is ridiculous) but rather what kind of impact is this going to have IF characters already engaged in a romance turn out to be Shep-sexual (a term and concept which is ****ing stupid).

Because nobody seems to have addressed how this can possibly work out because as it stands any person romancing let's say Jack or Tali or Garrus is going to have to play catchup to the Shepards that already romanced them in ME2. The thing is does that mean Bioware is going to have to record voice work for a character that now needs a non-romantic path/ a romantic path and now a s/s path for players essentially showing up late? None of those paths are going to suffer or becoming generic and vague like we saw in DA2, especially when you consider that they are optional characters that might not even be present?

My concern is losing the specificity of things like Garrus complimenting a FemShep according to Turian standards of femininity or basic crap like Tali actually using male pronouns or gender specific body language in cutscenes in exchange for DA2's nonsense. Especially when we could potentially use either characters like Samara who are already set up for s/s or use newcomers like James Vega to fill those roles without compromising what we already have in place.

So there's some pronoun changes. Characters have to record pronoun alternates for non-romance dialog as it is, why is this such a big deal? Maybe there will be some gender specific lines here and there, as in ME2, but we're not talking about mountains of content here. We're talking about alternate audio tracks for the most part. Not really seeing the concern here, please tell me if I've missed the point you're trying to make.

if the only difference between the m/m and m/f romance are a couple of pronouns then they should probably just leave them out of the game because tahts cheap and lazy.

EXCEPT THAT'S NOT THE CASE. 

UGH. 

*wishes people wouldn't complain about things THEY KNOW **** ABOUT* 

[Siansonea]

Darth Death wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...


*SNIP*
Well, genius, by your logic Shepard should never have been able to romance Garrus and Tali in the second game. After all, if he/she wasn't able to state an attraction explicitly in the first game, then it's a lack of continuity. By YOUR "logic" I mean. 

Spare me. You already proved my point. Anything you say to me beyond this is insignificant. 

In other words, "I can't think of anything else to say, so I'll just pretend I won the argument". Nice try, and thanks for playing.

[Ghost Warrior]

TheMarshal wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

I'm curious...  In your eyes, are single Shepards straight despite never having "been straight" in a romance?

You are missing my point. Roleplaying can be fun,and you can imagine any Shepard to be whatever you want him/her to be. But it is just for you,and nobody else. When you actually romance some of the females,then that (male) Shepard is not gay,for everyone. If you don't romance anyone,then that Shepard can be straight,gay or bisexual,depending on how you see him,but it's once again just in your head. He was never able to be seen as gay or bisexual,for everyone.

[SennenScale]

On the whole "they never talked about dudes before"...Is it really that bothersome if a guy or girl fails to mention they have gone for both sexes before? As long as they never actually said they were exclusively straight or expressed disgust, it is plausible.

I guess, being a female, I am used to not revealing my own past completely, so it doesn't seem that odd. Makes people paranoid when they hear about your exes. "No, I'm not into him anymore. I'm with you now....Who told you that?"

[Clonedzero]

i didnt say it was the case, calm down lol. notice the first word in what i said? that big giant IF.

ive been saying all morning that i wanted unique dialogue for the s/s romances and for people to even acknowledge that its an s/s romance.

[TheMarshal]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

You are missing my point. Roleplaying can be fun,and you can imagine any Shepard to be whatever you want him/her to be. But it is just for you,and nobody else. When you actually romance some of the females,then that (male) Shepard is not gay,for everyone. If you don't romance anyone,then that Shepard can be straight,gay or bisexual,depending on how you see him,but it's once again just in your head. He was never able to be seen as gay or bisexual,for everyone.

So because someone has their Male Shepard romance a female, ALL Male Shepards are canonically straight?

[Siansonea]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sian: there ARE differences.  Only people I hear saying its just pronouns changes are people who didn't do the m/m versions of the romance (or bother watching youtube vids or hell even talking to people who did the gay romances). 

And where is all this acknowledgement of your gender in the ME2 romances?

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more gender differences in bisexual romance options, I think DA2 was a bit light on those. But I think people are exaggerating the amount "resources" required to make that happen. A lot of it simply amounts to recorded dialogue. After all, in some cases the animation can simply be a shot of Shepard listening to the LI speak.

[SennenScale]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
You are missing my point. Roleplaying can be fun,and you can imagine any Shepard to be whatever you want him/her to be. But it is just for you,and nobody else. When you actually romance some of the females,then that (male) Shepard is not gay,for everyone. If you don't romance anyone,then that Shepard can be straight,gay or bisexual,depending on how you see him,but it's once again just in your head. He was never able to be seen as gay or bisexual,for everyone.

The whole point of asking for the m/m options is so that it is no longer just in our heads. Is that so terrible? Shepard was never forced to be a straight dude, and nobody's Shepard is going to be forced to be gay, either. Everyone gets the options they want now.

[-Skorpious-]

Dammit, I don't want to do this, but part of me feels obligated to do so. I was wrong. I was wrong to support a stance/decision that may bereft another member of enjoying a game the way he/she wants to and not how I want to. I was upset over the fact that my favorite character (you guys should already know this by now =p ) may possibly experience a sudden shift in sexual preference, thus, going against my "canon" ideal of Garrus and his established personality. For that I apoligize.

Like I said, I have had time to think it over at work, and I feel that a compromise can exist to please both sides equally without restricting content due to varying beliefs. (Someone else has probably already posted something similar, but I don't care) -

A) Shepard has to be the one to make a move. Always. Simple explanation really, if you initiate the romance then you only have yourself to blame for the awkward 'not interested' answer. This also allows the player to infer that the character remains "straight" (believe me this can be a big deal) in their canon playthrough.

The path to initiating a romance should be clear to the point of being painstakingly blunt. No ambiguous "I want to get to know you" dialog choices, but crystal clear responses such as "I need you".

C) Initiating a romance should exist within the confines of an ambiguous conversation that allows a 'friendship' to simultaneously develop. Thane's talk of religion could possibly lay the grounds for a SS romance, but also leave plenty of room for a friendship to occur for example.

Example of how this can work in ME3 -

Kaidan and a male Shepard are discussing Shepard's decision to join Cerberus (point C) and Kaidan utters the following outburst -

K: "Dammit Shepard! I lost you once to Collector's and again to Cerberus; I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I lost you a third time".

the romance option would appear on the left of the screen, and is easily identified by the player. In this instance it is labeled "You mean more to me than you know Kaidan"

S: *Insert sappy love dialog here*

OR

Shepard can also choose a separate "friendship" option, which is also visually unique. The text would something like "Remember Virmire?"

S: "As a soldier we sometimes have to set our morality aside for the greater good; you of all people should know this Kaidan. Do you remember Virmire? Do you remember destroying a cure that could save an entire species from the brink of extinction? Due you remember leaving Ashely behind to die? We may regret those actions, but we mustn't forget why we made them".

[i]This would shoehorn Kaidan into the friendship path for his character, and would also prevent Kaidan from accidentally showing sexual tension towards Shepard.

While I may have changed my mind regarding SS romances, I still DO NOT CONDONE a repeat of DA2. I still support a cast of totally new SS romances for both genders, with maybe two of the ME/ME2 characters being made available for both sexes.

If they must be bisexual however, please, please, please at least give them a damn good reason for doing so Bioware.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 16 mai 2011 - 05:09 .

[MACharlie1]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

I'm curious...  In your eyes, are single Shepards straight despite never having "been straight" in a romance?

You are missing my point. Roleplaying can be fun,and you can imagine any Shepard to be whatever you want him/her to be. But it is just for you,and nobody else. When you actually romance some of the females,then that (male) Shepard is not gay,for everyone. If you don't romance anyone,then that Shepard can be straight,gay or bisexual,depending on how you see him,but it's once again just in your head. He was never able to be seen as gay or bisexual,for everyone.

I have eight Shepards. Count em. EIGHT. One fem Shepard romanced Liara and then Garrus. Another Shepard romanced Kaidan in the first and stayed loyal. I see one Shepard as being bisexual and the other as straight. ANOTHER fem Shep got it on with Kelly while she romanced Kaidan and then Jacob. Why can't I see one of my male Shepards be bisexual and the other straight? Not everyone views every Shepard the same way. It's nice to have a wide variety of options. An infinite number of selections and personalities that can be expressed in gameplay. 

[Siansonea]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

I'm curious...  In your eyes, are single Shepards straight despite never having "been straight" in a romance?

You are missing my point. Roleplaying can be fun,and you can imagine any Shepard to be whatever you want him/her to be. But it is just for you,and nobody else. When you actually romance some of the females,then that (male) Shepard is not gay,for everyone. If you don't romance anyone,then that Shepard can be straight,gay or bisexual,depending on how you see him,but it's once again just in your head. He was never able to be seen as gay or bisexual,for everyone.

He was also never able to be seen as STRAIGHT for everyone.

[Ryzaki]

Siansonea II wrote...
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more gender differences in bisexual romance options, I think DA2 was a bit light on those. But I think people are exaggerating the amount "resources" required to make that happen. A lot of it simply amounts to recorded dialogue. After all, in some cases the animation can simply be a shot of Shepard listening to the LI speak.

 

I personally prefer it light. The gender differences are one of the reasons I'm "eh" on the Anders female romance. He treats her like a doll going STAY AWAY FROM ME! while with the male he's more flirty and open. It also lends itself to sexism intentionally or otherwise. (What only a female Hawke needs to be protected from Anders? What is that crap?) 

Agreed on the exaggerating resources though. 

[Siansonea]

Darth Death wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...
BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

He was never able to be into quarians either, until ME2.

So now in ME3 we finally have the solid, undeniable proof that Shepard can be officially and undeniably gay instead of "ambiguously gay" due to lack of sexual partner.

So... what's your point again?  Shepard has to be straight because he could only explicitly show sexual interest in women?  And you're sticking to that just because?  Yeah, that sounds like denial.

He may not have been into quarians specifically in the first game, but he was into asari which is an alien. So yea...  

You must be really bad at math. 2+2 does not equal 5. Liking asari is not the same as liking quarians. 

[Ryzaki]

Clonedzero wrote...

i didnt say it was the case, calm down lol. notice the first word in what i said? that big giant IF.

ive been saying all morning that i wanted unique dialogue for the s/s romances and for people to even acknowledge that its an s/s romance.

It's a pet peeve. 

That's exactly what happens in DA2 and every other BW game. I don't know why people are acting like BW would suddenly change that! 

[Darth Death]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

I'm curious...  In your eyes, are single Shepards straight despite never having "been straight" in a romance?

You are missing my point. Roleplaying can be fun,and you can imagine any Shepard to be whatever you want him/her to be. But it is just for you,and nobody else. When you actually romance some of the females,then that (male) Shepard is not gay,for everyone. If you don't romance anyone,then that Shepard can be straight,gay or bisexual,depending on how you see him,but it's once again just in your head. He was never able to be seen as gay or bisexual,for everyone.

Ghost Warrior, how come you're the only person who gets it? Kudos to you. 

[Ghost Warrior]

MACharlie1 wrote...


But because he knows that a character is homosexual, it just makes him feel all squick inside and now he can't talk to him or bring him on any missions because he might hit on him and rape him in his sleep. <_< 

It's nothing like that. I've already said many times that if there was an option since ME1,I wouldn't say a thing.
It's waiting until the last game in the series what bothers me.