6696 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

-Skorpious- wrote...

While I may have changed my mind regarding SS romances, I still DO NOT CONDONE a repeat of DA2. I still support a cast of totally new SS romances for both genders, with maybe two of the ME/ME2 characters being made available for both sexes.

Good post, but how did DA2 go wrong?  None of the romances were with old LIs.

[Ryzaki]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Dammit, I don't want to do this, but part of me feels obligated to do so. I was wrong. I was wrong to support a stance/decision that may bereft another member of enjoying a game the way he/she wants to and not how I want to. I was upset over the fact that my favorite character (you guys should already know this by now =p ) may possibly experience a sudden shift in sexual preference, thus, going against my "canon" ideal of Garrus and his established personality. For that I apoligize.

Like I said, I have had time to think it over at work, and I feel that a compromise can exist to please both sides equally without restricting content due to varying beliefs. (Someone else has probably already posted something similar, but I don't care) -

A) Shepard has to be the one to make a move. Always. Simple explanation really, if you initiate the romance then you only have yourself to blame for the awkward 'not interested' answer. This also allows the player to infer that the character remains "straight" (believe me this can be a big deal) in their canon playthrough.

The path to initiating a romance should be clear to the point of being painstakingly blunt. No ambiguous "I want to get to know you" dialog choices, but crystal clear responses such as "I need you".

C) Initiating a romance should exist within the confines of an ambiguous conversation that allows a 'friendship' to simultaneously develop. Thane's talk of religion could possibly lay the grounds for a SS romance, but also leave plenty of room for a friendship to occur for example.

Example of how this can work in ME3 -

Kaidan and a male Shepard are discussing Shepard's decision to join Cerberus (point C) and Kaidan utters the following outburst -

K: "Dammit Shepard! I lost you once to Collector's and again to Cerberus; I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I lost you a third time".

the romance option would appear on the left of the screen, and is easily identified by the player. In this instance it is labeled "You mean more to me than you know Kaidan"

S: *Insert sappy love dialog here*

OR

Shepard can also choose a separate "friendship" option, which is also visually unique. The text would something like "Remember Virmire?"

S: "As a soldier we sometimes have to set our morality aside for the greater good; you of all people should know this Kaidan. Do you remember Virmire? Do you remember destroying a cure that could save an entire species from the brink of extinction? Due you remember leaving Ashely behind to die? We may regret those actions, but we mustn't forget why we made them".

[i]This would shoehorn Kaidan into the friendship path for his character, and would also prevent Kaidan from accidentally showing sexual tension towards Shepard.

While I may have changed my mind regarding SS romances, I still DO NOT CONDONE a repeat of DA2. I still support a cast of totally new SS romances for both genders, with maybe two of the ME/ME2 characters being made available for both sexes.

If they must be bisexual however, please, please, please at least give them a damn good reason for doing so Bioware.

*cackles evily* 


Seriously though I share your "DO NOT WANT EVERYONE BI." mostly because it's TOO MANY CHARACTERS AT THIS POINT. Just too many. DA2 worked for me because there was only 4 characters. 9? No Just No. I'd feel sufficated from the amount of choice. 

And I do want new LIs. 

[Siansonea]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Dammit, I don't want to do this, but part of me feels obligated to do so. I was wrong. I was wrong to support a stance/decision that may bereft another member of enjoying a game the way he/she wants to and not how I want to. I was upset over the fact that my favorite character (you guys should already know this by now =p ) may possibly experience a sudden shift in sexual preference, thus, going against my "canon" ideal of Garrus and his established personality. For that I apoligize.

Like I said, I have had time to think it over at work, and I feel that a compromise can exist to please both sides equally without restricting content due to varying beliefs. (Someone else has probably already posted something similar, but I don't care) -

A) Shepard has to be the one to make a move. Always. Simple explanation really, if you initiate the romance then you only have yourself to blame for the awkward 'not interested' answer. This also allows the player to infer that the character remains "straight" (believe me this can be a big deal) in their canon playthrough.

The path to initiating a romance should be clear to the point of being painstakingly blunt. No ambiguous "I want to get to know you" dialog choices, but crystal clear responses such as "I need you".

C) Initiating a romance should exist within the confines of an ambiguous conversation that allows a 'friendship' to simultaneously develop. Thane's talk of religion could possibly lay the grounds for a SS romance, but also leave plenty of room for a friendship to occur for example.

Example of how this can work in ME3 -

Kaidan and a male Shepard are discussing Shepard's decision to join Cerberus (point C) and Kaidan utters the following outburst -

K: "Dammit Shepard! I lost you once to Collector's and again to Cerberus; I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I lost you a third time".

the romance option would appear on the left of the screen, and is easily identified by the player. In this instance it is labeled "You mean more to me than you know Kaidan"

S: *Insert sappy love dialog here*

OR

Shepard can also choose a separate "friendship" option, which is also visually unique. The text would something like "Remember Virmire?"

S: "As a soldier we sometimes have to set our morality aside for the greater good; you of all people should know this Kaidan. Do you remember Virmire? Do you remember destroying a cure that could save an entire species from the brink of extinction? Due you remember leaving Ashely behind to die? We may regret those actions, but we mustn't forget why we made them".

[i]This would shoehorn Kaidan into the friendship path for his character, and would also prevent Kaidan from accidentally showing sexual tension towards Shepard.

While I may have changed my mind regarding SS romances, I still DO NOT CONDONE a repeat of DA2. I still support a cast of totally new SS romances for both genders, with maybe two of the ME/ME2 characters being made available for both sexes.

If they must be bisexual however, please, please, please at least give them a damn good reason for doing so Bioware.

I don't got a problem with this. I like it, actually. I wouldn't mind a new character hitting on same-sex Shepard first, though. I will always champion LOTS of friendship dialog, some of my Shepards are just downright busybodies who want to know everything there is to know about their crew. :happy:

[TheMarshal]

Siansonea II wrote...

I don't got a problem with this. I like it, actually. I wouldn't mind a new character hitting on same-sex Shepard first, though. I will always champion LOTS of friendship dialog, some of my Shepards are just downright busybodies who want to know everything there is to know about their crew. :happy:

Amen.  That's how I got to see Mordin's 'romance' dialogue.  It was definitely a moment.

[Ghost Warrior]

TheMarshal wrote...


So because someone has their Male Shepard romance a female, ALL Male Shepards are canonically straight?

Are you people trying to annoy me,or just fail to understand something very simple?
It's not because someone romanced a female,it's because nobody was able to romance a male( with their male Shep,of course)

[-Skorpious-]

jlb524 wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

While I may have changed my mind regarding SS romances, I still DO NOT CONDONE a repeat of DA2. I still support a cast of totally new SS romances for both genders, with maybe two of the ME/ME2 characters being made available for both sexes.

Good post, but how did DA2 go wrong?  None of the romances were with old LIs.

Not that the romances were necessarily bad, but the fact that they were all biesexual is what I was hinted at. Some characters need to have a sense of 'conviction'. =p

[100k]

We kind of knew this already. In ME2, we reconnected with a few people who hinted very strongly at being LIs.

I'm betting Gianna and Shiala will both be straight new LIs for maleShep.
Jack will be bisexual (because she already technically is in ME2).
Maybe Conrad for femShep.
Ash/Kaiden might be bi after supressed feelings about being the VS.

And a few new ones.

[InvaderErl]

Ryzaki wrote...

 <_< Sorry to burst your bubble but I felt my gender was more referenced in the DA2's romances than the ME3 ones. If you want to rag on DA2 fine. Just don't pull bull**** out to prove some point. 

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific.

What I meant is that romances like Thane's for example or Alistair in Origins work as well as they do because they play off the gender of the player character in a very specific and direct way. Even Garrus' shy and awkward attitudes and his subsequent attempt to woo her play off of FemShep in a way that I don't think would have worked for a MaleShep.
 
Wheras DA2 gender is merely a blurb and as a result its less YOUR Hawke in those relationships as some kind of weird nether Hawke that they are addressing (which is a very common problem in DA2).

For a while I've been saying Bioware needs to create gay characters rather than bi characters. Leliana'/Zevran were well constructed but even they suffered to a much lesser degree than DA2 did but regardless they were less "constructed" than Morrigan/Alistair. As Skorpius just posted in the case of DA2 where it got taken to an extreme due to the Hawke-sexual nonsense,  it just felt like the characters lacked a certain sense of "conviction" in their personalities.

And the larger issue I pointed out stands, in that there's a very high likelihood of resources being spread around so as to support multi-path romantic interests rather than focusing on concluding what's already been established IF love interests suddenly become Shep-sexual *ugh*

Modifié par InvaderErl, 16 mai 2011 - 05:19 .

[RohanDaKitty]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

BUT HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO BE GAY OUTSIDE YOUR MINDS.

I'm curious...  In your eyes, are single Shepards straight despite never having "been straight" in a romance?

You are missing my point. Roleplaying can be fun,and you can imagine any Shepard to be whatever you want him/her to be. But it is just for you,and nobody else. When you actually romance some of the females,then that (male) Shepard is not gay,for everyone. If you don't romance anyone,then that Shepard can be straight,gay or bisexual,depending on how you see him,but it's once again just in your head. He was never able to be seen as gay or bisexual,for everyone.

And this feature, to be included in ME3, is meant for those individuals who played Shepard that way. It's not for everyone.

In Mass Effect 3 shepard wont be seen as gay or bisexual by a lot of people. He will be exactly the same, as they will persue heterosexual romances or continue their previous heterosexual romances.

How is it a problem, that I play my Shep gay and everyone else continues on their merry heterosexual way?

I can understand if you're saying from a perspective of story, that Shepard never seemed gay and his new-found homosexual awakening doesn't gel with you. And that's fine. Because this content is not meant for you. It's meant for people like me who would get something extra out of the game from its inclusion.

In ME3, players can play Shep as someone attracted to the same sex. If they want. If you, specifically, don't want to. Then you certainly don't have to.

I fail to see your argument, Bioware say, "Hey for those who wanted this, now you can. If you don't want to, you don't have to."

[Clonedzero]

100k wrote...

We kind of knew this already. In ME2, we reconnected with a few people who hinted very strongly at being LIs.

I'm betting Gianna and Shiala will both be straight new LIs for maleShep.
Jack will be bisexual (because she already technically is in ME2).
Maybe Conrad for femShep.
Ash/Kaiden might be bi after supressed feelings about being the VS.

And a few new ones.

why do people keep brining up Gianna an Shiala as serious LI candiadates? they were nothing more than throw away cameos lol

they're too much of a side character, minor cameo to be a LI.

[bleetman]

I've no aspirations to play a male Shepard, but depending on your view of Asari biology, female Shepards can hook up with one to three different women by the conclusion of ME2. It's not unprecedented, nor is it particularly reasonable to expect them to only offer bisexuality to one gender once they'd decided to include it.

I highly doubt you'll be forced into same-sex romance. If the mere possibility of it occurring for someone else is so troubling, deal with it.

Ghost Warrior wrote...

It's not because someone romanced a female,it's because nobody was able to romance a male( with their male Shep,of course)

Y'know, for the record? Being bi/homosexual does not mean you're attracted to absolutely bloody everybody of the same gender, all the time. Preferences and circumstances change.

Modifié par bleetman, 16 mai 2011 - 05:21 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
Are you people trying to annoy me,or just fail to understand something very simple?
It's not because someone romanced a female,it's because nobody was able to romance a male( with their male Shep,of course)

Nobody was able to romance a blonde, either.  Guess Shepard canonically doesn't like blondes, and any new character LI in ME3 sure as hell better not be blonde or I'm calling retcon.

[Siansonea]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...


So because someone has their Male Shepard romance a female, ALL Male Shepards are canonically straight?

Are you people trying to annoy me,or just fail to understand something very simple?
It's not because someone romanced a female,it's because nobody was able to romance a male( with their male Shep,of course)

Nobody was able to romance a quarian in the first game either. 

[Wereparrot]

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

My opinions may already have been expressed, but they weren't on the first page and I'm not reading all these pages, so here goes.

Regardless of any rubbish you may give me about Liara, who is neither male nor female but something entirely different according to the nature of the asari existence, Shepherd was established in ME1 as straight. Bioware had an opportunity to make Shepherd bi with ME2 and they missed it, and an opportunity of this kind will not present itself again. Bioware have brought their flagship franchise into disrepute, and compromised the integrity of the main character. All I will say is: political correctness is a poor substitute for character integrity. The same thing happened with Anders in DAII: by what he said in Awakening he is clearly straight, but Bioware raped his character in DAII for whatever reason.

"Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up."

Explain please? Are you trying to deny that ME1 ever happened?

You're trying to deny that asari are female, when they clearly, you know, give birth to baby asari. And Shepard wasn't "established" as anything in ME1, because Shepard didn't HAVE to pursue romance AT ALL. Shepard can tell Liara AND Ashley "how about no", then in ME2 tell Miranda, Jack, and Tali "how about no". So what exactly has been "established" for ALL MALE SHEPARDS, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Asari are also fathers, so like I said in my first post: don't give me any of this arogant rubbish. You cannot take Bioware's creation and make it your own. 

If Shepherd doesn't pursue a romance, that doesn't make his character any less straight, because Bioware decided that the available romances would be straight, as they were in ME2, apart from the aimless fraterrnisation with Kelly for female Shepherds.

I'm not doing anything of the kind. A human female can "father" an asari child. Does that make her a man? Clearly you're the one attempting to rewrite the Codex, pal.

Why should it matter who fathers the child? How can asari be purely female if they can play the reproductive role of both genders?

You know what happens when you don't pursue romance? You remain UNDECLARED. Your simplistic notion is like saying everyone who you've never seen eat Mexican food automatically prefers Chinese food.

Of course, but there's been TWO GAMES where Shepherd has been straight (Kelly notwitstanding, but I'm not sure she counts at this stage). And like I said again, Bioware had a good chance to introduce bi options in ME2 when Shepherd was 'dead': all that needed to be done was to say that Shepherd had lost some balance through the ordeal, but no. If we must have bi options, they missed the boat in my opinion. 

[Phaelducan]

The Adolf Shep comment made me lol.

So the argument being made now is that just because we don't see proof that Shep isn't gay, we have to assume that he easily could be?

So we don't have proof that he is a racist, pedophile, necrophage, corprophage, or transvestite... yet we have to assume that those proclivities are all strong possibilities? (calm down, I'm not equating homosexuality with any of those).

Look, no offense to Bioware or anything... but this isn't Fallout. There is a place for games with a complete blank template for the PC... but Shep was never that blank slate. You had limited customization (choose 2 of 6 basic temperments/backstories, choose a gender, choose a class, alter appearance) and for two games that wasn't a big deal.

Now all of a sudden resources are being devoted to sexual orientation... and for what? Why not just ask in ME1 "gay or straight" and have that be part of the generation process. Fallout: New Vegas lets you choose perks at level two identifying sexual proclivities based on gender, and if ME had them no one would care or complain.

Problem is, it's never been of note until now, and it's the third game in the trilogy. Why bother messing with it now?

[TheMarshal]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Are you people trying to annoy me,or just fail to understand something very simple?
It's not because someone romanced a female,it's because nobody was able to romance a male( with their male Shep,of course)

But again you're relying on the whole 'absence of proof' thing, which is not a legitimate argument.  Just because someone's MaleShep hasn't been able to romance a male doesn't mean that the Shepard hasn't wanted to and wouldn't if the opportunity arose.

[Ryzaki]

InvaderErl wrote...
I'm sorry, I should have been more specific.

What I meant is that romances like Thane's for example or Alistair in Origins work as well as they do because they play off the gender of the player character in a very specific and direct way. Even Garrus' shy and awkward attitudes and his subsequent attempt to woo her play off of FemShep in a way that I don't think would have worked for a MaleShep.
 
Wheras DA2 gender is merely a blurb and as a result its less YOUR Hawke in those relationships as some kind of weird nether Hawke that they are addressing (which is a very common problem in DA2).

For a while I've been saying Bioware needs to create gay characters rather than bi characters. Leliana'/Zevran were well constructed but even they suffered to a much lesser degree than DA2 did but regardless they were less "constructed" than Morrigan/Alistair or a Miranda or Jack. As Skorpius just posted in the case of DA2 where it got taken to an extreme due to the Hawke-sexual nonsense,  it just felt like the characters lacked a certain sense of "conviction" in their personalities.

And the larger issue I pointed out stands, in that there's a very high likelihood that the quality of the established romance might not get the attention it deserves so as to try and bring other Shepard's up to speed.

Thane's romance? I hated it. IT wasridculous to me. "I have perfect recollection of my wife but I'm gonna romance you because...? why exactly? Oh yeah and I'm dying soon." Alistair's worked because it had loads of content (like Zevran's m/m romance to me is far more superior to any romance in the ME series because frankly it has more content and character development). Zevran giving my male Hawke the ring and trying to say in not so many words that he loved him was far more touching than any of the romances in the ME series. 

I didn't feel that way at all. I felt they were addressing my Hawke period. 

I agree about gay characers rather than bi. That said I don't get the constructed attitude. I hated Morrigan's romance. I felt Zevran's was superior to hers as well. Lelian's the only one that felt flat to me. And I found Anders blowing up the Chantry to be plenty of conviction in his character. I don't find someone's sexual preferences to be anything about convinction. Morrigan had conviction because she ditched the Warden (before squandering that in witchhunt), Alistair had conviction because he would dump the warden for duty, Zevran had conviction because he would dump the warden if he fell in love and they didn't feel the same. Their conviction had squat to do with what gender they preferred. 

That's gonna happen with new LIs anyways. Just more resources are gonna be taken away from the older LIs because the new LIs need designs, weapons, an all that jazz. 

But yeah we don't agree on most things. I'm not seeing strictly o/s romances as some shining examples of BW romances. DAO romances on the other hand...yeah those are some shining examples. But it's because BW put a lot of resources and development into them. Not because of the fact that they're straight/bisexual. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 05:28 .

[MACharlie1]

Clonedzero wrote...

100k wrote...

We kind of knew this already. In ME2, we reconnected with a few people who hinted very strongly at being LIs.

I'm betting Gianna and Shiala will both be straight new LIs for maleShep.
Jack will be bisexual (because she already technically is in ME2).
Maybe Conrad for femShep.
Ash/Kaiden might be bi after supressed feelings about being the VS.

And a few new ones.

why do people keep brining up Gianna an Shiala as serious LI candiadates? they were nothing more than throw away cameos lol

they're too much of a side character, minor cameo to be a LI.

Well, I'm hoping Shiala becomes an awesome boss fight if she turns into a giant thorian creeper monster husk thing and Gianna is most certainly playing a larger role since she was looking into that dark matter thing which keeps getting brought up. :innocent:

[DaeJi]

Phaelducan wrote...


Look, no offense to Bioware or anything... but this isn't Fallout. There is a place for games with a complete blank template for the PC... but Shep was never that blank slate. You had limited customization (choose 2 of 6 basic temperments/backstories, choose a gender, choose a class, alter appearance) and for two games that wasn't a big deal.

Now all of a sudden resources are being devoted to sexual orientation... and for what?

Because BioWare not allowing their most customizable character since Knights of the Old Republic (and yes, Shepard is a blanker slate than Revan, the Spirit Monk, the Warden, and Hawke) to be gay was stupid in the first place.

[Darth Death]

Phaelducan wrote...

The Adolf Shep comment made me lol.

So the argument being made now is that just because we don't see proof that Shep isn't gay, we have to assume that he easily could be?

So we don't have proof that he is a racist, pedophile, necrophage, corprophage, or transvestite... yet we have to assume that those proclivities are all strong possibilities? (calm down, I'm not equating homosexuality with any of those).

Look, no offense to Bioware or anything... but this isn't Fallout. There is a place for games with a complete blank template for the PC... but Shep was never that blank slate. You had limited customization (choose 2 of 6 basic temperments/backstories, choose a gender, choose a class, alter appearance) and for two games that wasn't a big deal.

Now all of a sudden resources are being devoted to sexual orientation... and for what? Why not just ask in ME1 "gay or straight" and have that be part of the generation process. Fallout: New Vegas lets you choose perks at level two identifying sexual proclivities based on gender, and if ME had them no one would care or complain.

Problem is, it's never been of note until now, and it's the third game in the trilogy. Why bother messing with it now?

That's what I've been saying!! I'm glad to know they're some people on theses forums who see the inconsistency.  

[Siansonea]

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
*snip*
You're trying to deny that asari are female, when they clearly, you know, give birth to baby asari. And Shepard wasn't "established" as anything in ME1, because Shepard didn't HAVE to pursue romance AT ALL. Shepard can tell Liara AND Ashley "how about no", then in ME2 tell Miranda, Jack, and Tali "how about no". So what exactly has been "established" for ALL MALE SHEPARDS, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Asari are also fathers, so like I said in my first post: don't give me any of this arogant rubbish. You cannot take Bioware's creation and make it your own. 


If Shepherd doesn't pursue a romance, that doesn't make his character any less straight, because Bioware decided that the available romances would be straight, as they were in ME2, apart from the aimless fraterrnisation with Kelly for female Shepherds.

I'm not doing anything of the kind. A human female can "father" an asari child. Does that make her a man? Clearly you're the one attempting to rewrite the Codex, pal.

Why should it matter who fathers the child? How can asari be purely female if they can play the reproductive role of both genders?

Well, it's not that simple, is it? And guess what, if asari ARE hermaphrodites or whatever you want to call them, GUESS WHAT THAT MEANS.  That's right, your precious MaleShep, who is banging Liara, is banging a HERMAPHRODITE. So do you STILL want to maintain that asari aren't female?

You know what happens when you don't pursue romance? You remain UNDECLARED. Your simplistic notion is like saying everyone who you've never seen eat Mexican food automatically prefers Chinese food.

Of course, but there's been TWO GAMES where Shepherd has been straight (Kelly notwitstanding, but I'm not sure she counts at this stage). And like I said again, Bioware had a good chance to introduce bi options in ME2 when Shepherd was 'dead': all that needed to be done was to say that Shepherd had lost some balance through the ordeal, but no. If we must have bi options, they missed the boat in my opinion. 

You say "Shepard has been straight for two games", but you don't provide any examples of this. Shepard has had the option to express a heterosexual lifestyle in two games, but in no way is Shepard forced to pursue heterosexual romance. Shepard can tell all the opposite-sex LIs to go away, how is that proving he's straight?

[InvaderErl]

Ryzaki wrote...

Thane's romance? I hated it. Alistair's worked because it had loads of content (like Zevran's m/m romance to me is far more superior to any romance in the ME series because frankly it has more content and character development). 

I didn't feel that way at all. I felt they were addressing my Hawke period. 

I agree about gay characers rather than bi. That said I don't get the constructed attitude. I hated Morrigan's romance. I felt Zevran's was superior to hers as well. Lelian's the only one that felt flat to me. And I found Anders blowing up the Chantry to be plenty of conviction in his character. 

That's gonna happen with new LIs anyways. 

I don't really feel that retorting to my points that "I didn't like them" is really valid as making any kind of point aside from personal preference, regardless they are there and they operate that way.
 
In any case, I'm not saying that makes Morrigan's romance BETTER from a subjective point of view, what I am saying thoug is Morrigan's romance ties into the player being male and intrinsically is a m/f relationship and plays off of said gender conventions moreso than a Zevran romance which has a certain degree of generality so as to appeal to Wardens of both genders.

I think the same goes for a Thane vs a Merril let's say, wherein Shepard's gender is a clear and direct facet of the relationship in the former and a blurb in the latter.

Now as you said its going to happen with the new love interests, resources are going to be drained away - I'm hesitant therefore to draw more resources needlessly away when they can be better used developing the new love interest as new one's and developing established love interests rather than ALSO trying to turn established love interests into new ones as well.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 16 mai 2011 - 05:29 .

[Clonedzero]

DaeJi wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...


Look, no offense to Bioware or anything... but this isn't Fallout. There is a place for games with a complete blank template for the PC... but Shep was never that blank slate. You had limited customization (choose 2 of 6 basic temperments/backstories, choose a gender, choose a class, alter appearance) and for two games that wasn't a big deal.

Now all of a sudden resources are being devoted to sexual orientation... and for what?

Because BioWare not allowing their most customizable character since Knights of the Old Republic (and yes, Shepard is a blanker slate than Revan, the Spirit Monk, the Warden, and Hawke) to be gay was stupid in the first place.

not that i disagree with shepard being allowed to be gay.

but shepard is in no way a blanker slate than the warden or hawke or even revan. he/she is actually pretty well defined with minor differences and no gender references.

[TheMarshal]

Phaelducan wrote...

The Adolf Shep comment made me lol.

So the argument being made now is that just because we don't see proof that Shep isn't gay, we have to assume that he easily could be?

So we don't have proof that he is a racist, pedophile, necrophage, corprophage, or transvestite... yet we have to assume that those proclivities are all strong possibilities? (calm down, I'm not equating homosexuality with any of those).

Look, no offense to Bioware or anything... but this isn't Fallout. There is a place for games with a complete blank template for the PC... but Shep was never that blank slate. You had limited customization (choose 2 of 6 basic temperments/backstories, choose a gender, choose a class, alter appearance) and for two games that wasn't a big deal.

Now all of a sudden resources are being devoted to sexual orientation... and for what? Why not just ask in ME1 "gay or straight" and have that be part of the generation process. Fallout: New Vegas lets you choose perks at level two identifying sexual proclivities based on gender, and if ME had them no one would care or complain.

Problem is, it's never been of note until now, and it's the third game in the trilogy. Why bother messing with it now?

Regarding your laundry list of negative things (which you're totally not equating with homosexuality...) that Shepard could be, yes, they are all possibilities.  However none of them (except perhaps for racist, which Shepard CAN be with regards to aliens, at least) pertain to the story in any way.  Shepard's ability to pursue a romantic relationship, on the other hand, is a key point to both of the Mass Effect games.  All people are asking is for the ability to pursue a relationship the way that they would like to.