6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

InvaderErl wrote...
I don't really feel that retorting to my points that "I didn't like them" is really valid as making any kind of point aside from personal preference, regardless they are there and they operate that way.
 
In any case, I'm not saying that makes Morrigan's romance is BETTER from a subjective point of view, what I am saying thoug is Morrigan's romance ties into the player being male and intrinsically is a m/f relationship and plays off of said gender conventions moreso than a Zevran romance which has a certain degree of generality so as to appeal to Wardens of both genders.

What gender conventions does Morrigan's romance plays off that Zevran's don't? Because I can recall quite a few in my m/m Zevran romances. 

I think the same goes for a Thane vs a Merril let's say, wherein Shepard's gender is a clear and direct facet of the relationship in the former and a blurb in the latter.

Now as you said its going to happen with the new love interests, resources are going to be drained away - I'm hesitant therefore to draw more resources needlessly away when they can be better used developing the new love interest as new one's and developing established love interests rather than ALSO trying to turn established love interests into new ones as well.

I'm still not seeing it. Him calling her siha doesn't make her gender somehow more important in the romance than in Merrill's. (Or heck let's use Anders because I'm more used to him). Him going woman once in a while doesn't make her gender more significant (not to mention the DA2 Lis call Hawke by his/her gender as well). 

I was never pro new LIs and existing LIs. I was pro the former but not the latter. But now that we're getting new LIs anyway they might as well be bi. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 05:32 .

[RohanDaKitty]

Some people have really, really wanted removable helmets or collapsible helmets. Since ME1.

It's possible these could be introduced in ME3. Even though they didn't seem to exist in the two prior games.

Either way, the inclusion of those helmets would be a joy ot those who wanted them all along.

Same-sex romance for Male Shepard is the exact same thing. It's a feautre, an optional feature, in the game that is meant to be enjoyed by those who wanted it all along.

Some argue, "Why start now?"

I say, "Better late than never."

Thanks Bioware.

[DaeJi]

Clonedzero wrote...

not that i disagree with shepard being allowed to be gay.

but shepard is in no way a blanker slate than the warden or hawke or even revan. he/she is actually pretty well defined with minor differences and no gender references.

Shepard is more customizable because you can affect his or her background story.

[Ghost Warrior]

Darth Death wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

The Adolf Shep comment made me lol.

So the argument being made now is that just because we don't see proof that Shep isn't gay, we have to assume that he easily could be?

So we don't have proof that he is a racist, pedophile, necrophage, corprophage, or transvestite... yet we have to assume that those proclivities are all strong possibilities? (calm down, I'm not equating homosexuality with any of those).

Look, no offense to Bioware or anything... but this isn't Fallout. There is a place for games with a complete blank template for the PC... but Shep was never that blank slate. You had limited customization (choose 2 of 6 basic temperments/backstories, choose a gender, choose a class, alter appearance) and for two games that wasn't a big deal.

Now all of a sudden resources are being devoted to sexual orientation... and for what? Why not just ask in ME1 "gay or straight" and have that be part of the generation process. Fallout: New Vegas lets you choose perks at level two identifying sexual proclivities based on gender, and if ME had them no one would care or complain.

Problem is, it's never been of note until now, and it's the third game in the trilogy. Why bother messing with it now?

That's what I've been saying!! I'm glad to know they're some people on theses forums who see the inconsistency.  

Yes,exactly that.

[Clonedzero]

DaeJi wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

not that i disagree with shepard being allowed to be gay.

but shepard is in no way a blanker slate than the warden or hawke or even revan. he/she is actually pretty well defined with minor differences and no gender references.

Shepard is more customizable because you can affect his or her background story.

yes, but the backround is there. as in not blank. lol

he/she either saw his whole unit die on akuze, executed a bunch of batarians on torfon, or rallied some civilians to defend a colony during the skillian blitz

thats still far more defined backround that most of the other characters on bioware games.

you also define his/her childhood as well.

[Phaelducan]

DaeJi wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...


Look, no offense to Bioware or anything... but this isn't Fallout. There is a place for games with a complete blank template for the PC... but Shep was never that blank slate. You had limited customization (choose 2 of 6 basic temperments/backstories, choose a gender, choose a class, alter appearance) and for two games that wasn't a big deal.

Now all of a sudden resources are being devoted to sexual orientation... and for what?

Because BioWare not allowing their most customizable character since Knights of the Old Republic (and yes, Shepard is a blanker slate than Revan, the Spirit Monk, the Warden, and Hawke) to be gay was stupid in the first place.

No offense... but so says you. I think it's stupid for him to all of a sudden have gay options after two full games. Not that either of us are "right" per se, I just think it's a callous waste of resources for a game that is already going to be under a lot of pressure to deliver as strong follow-up to ME2. I'll buy your argument that he should have been gay-enabled from ME1... but since he wasn't, he shouldn't be now. I don't want only straight, I want consistency. The people here citing the lack of dis-proof as proof is fallacious and absurd. He wasn't gay in 1 or 2, or we would have had options.

Again, see Bethesda/Obsidian for how to do this right. This isn't it.

[Ghost Warrior]

Here,I added improved poll:
social.bioware.com/1724485/polls/20089/

Just for the record,I chose 4th option.

[Zweebs]

As long as garrus is not bi or homosexual, I'll be ok with it.

[CroGamer002]

Clonedzero wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

not that i disagree with shepard being allowed to be gay.

but shepard is in no way a blanker slate than the warden or hawke or even revan. he/she is actually pretty well defined with minor differences and no gender references.

Shepard is more customizable because you can affect his or her background story.

yes, but the backround is there. as in not blank. lol

he/she either saw his whole unit die on akuze, executed a bunch of batarians on torfon, or rallied some civilians to defend a colony during the skillian blitz

thats still far more defined backround that most of the other characters on bioware games.

you also define his/her childhood as well.

There's a background for PC in Fallout 3 as well.

[Centauri2002]

Ignoring the posts from people patting each other on the back for agreeing with one another...

I'd just like to ask those who have a problem with this why it even matters? If you don't want to see it, don't choose those options. You won't be exposed to it at all so it won't even be relevant to your save file. By your reasoning, if you don't see something in your game then it never happened. If your Kaiden (used for example purposes) isn't romanced by your MaleShep then you can feel free to believe him to be straight. I won't begrudge that. But don't ask that other people be prevented from enjoying their own games any less.

[Ryzaki]

Spirit Monk

Grew Up in Two Rivers
Has one of 7 looks
Was best friends with Dawn Star
Is the Top Student in his/her class
Is Rivals with Gao
Was OP before the events of the game
The last remaining spirit monk
Can start a relationship with a man.

Yeah SM > Shepard in terms of predefinition.  

[Xilizhra]

Interesting thing that I've noticed: by and large, the people who keep saying that sexuality is a vital part of one's personality are straight. Far more of those who disagree are not. Why might this be?

[bleetman]

I wasn't bi-sexual until a few years into twenties. That must mean I can never be bi-sexual, because it contradicts the years prior. Apparently.

Get a grip, people.

[DaeJi]

Clonedzero wrote...

yes, but the backround is there. as in not blank. lol

he/she either saw his whole unit die on akuze, executed a bunch of batarians on torfon, or rallied some civilians to defend a colony during the skillian blitz

thats still far more defined backround that most of the other characters on bioware games.

you also define his/her childhood as well.

I can only speak for BioWare games from Knights of the Old Republic on, but Shepard is the only character where you can change their background. Sure, some dialog options pop up to let your player character comment on their background, but the events are always set. Not so with Shepard. The closest you can get to that in a BioWare game is Dragon Age 2, where Hawke's background can be changed if you choose a mage or warrior/rogue.

[Phaelducan]

TheMarshal wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

The Adolf Shep comment made me lol.

So the argument being made now is that just because we don't see proof that Shep isn't gay, we have to assume that he easily could be?

So we don't have proof that he is a racist, pedophile, necrophage, corprophage, or transvestite... yet we have to assume that those proclivities are all strong possibilities? (calm down, I'm not equating homosexuality with any of those).

Look, no offense to Bioware or anything... but this isn't Fallout. There is a place for games with a complete blank template for the PC... but Shep was never that blank slate. You had limited customization (choose 2 of 6 basic temperments/backstories, choose a gender, choose a class, alter appearance) and for two games that wasn't a big deal.

Now all of a sudden resources are being devoted to sexual orientation... and for what? Why not just ask in ME1 "gay or straight" and have that be part of the generation process. Fallout: New Vegas lets you choose perks at level two identifying sexual proclivities based on gender, and if ME had them no one would care or complain.

Problem is, it's never been of note until now, and it's the third game in the trilogy. Why bother messing with it now?

Regarding your laundry list of negative things (which you're totally not equating with homosexuality...) that Shepard could be, yes, they are all possibilities.  However none of them (except perhaps for racist, which Shepard CAN be with regards to aliens, at least) pertain to the story in any way.  Shepard's ability to pursue a romantic relationship, on the other hand, is a key point to both of the Mass Effect games.  All people are asking is for the ability to pursue a relationship the way that they would like to.

No, all people are asking for is to "all of a sudden" be able to pursue a relationship the way they would like to. If it in ME1 or ME2 no one would care. It wasn't, and now it will be for ME3, which is why it's stupid. Hell, for that matter it's disempowering. Bioware is essentially saying that Shepard all of  a sudden turned gay, which is ridiculous. 

His relationships are not a key point in any case, they are minor, in that they represent functionally maybe 2-3 minutes of dialog and one extra short cut scene in a game of 30-60 hours. Drop in the bucket, and not worth even MORE resources to provide MORE diversity for most of us who quite frankly don't care. I want a good end to the narrative, not more awkward dialog to sort through to avoid a "whoops Anders" moment.

Again, to beat a dead horse, go play some Fallout to see this issue tackled well. This is just simply a poor way to represent sexual orientation in a video game.

[Ghost Warrior]

centauri2002 wrote...

Ignoring the posts from people patting each other on the back for agreeing with one another...

I'd just like to ask those who have a problem with this why it even matters? If you don't want to see it, don't choose those options. You won't be exposed to it at all so it won't even be relevant to your save file. By your reasoning, if you don't see something in your game then it never happened. If your Kaiden (used for example purposes) isn't romanced by your MaleShep then you can feel free to believe him to be straight. I won't begrudge that. But don't ask that other people be prevented from enjoying their own games any less.

But I'm asking again,why now. What changed between ME2 and ME3?

[Siansonea]

Hey Wereparrot? I'm still waiting for your response on this:

Wereparrot wrote...
*snip*

Why should it matter who fathers the child? How can asari be purely female if they can play the reproductive role of both genders?

Well, it's not that simple, is it? And guess what, if asari ARE hermaphrodites or whatever you want to call them, GUESS WHAT THAT MEANS. That's right, your precious MaleShep, who is banging Liara, is banging a HERMAPHRODITE. So do you STILL want to maintain that asari aren't female?

*snip*
Of course, but there's been TWO GAMES where Shepherd has been straight (Kelly notwitstanding, but I'm not sure she counts at this stage). And like I said again, Bioware had a good chance to introduce bi options in ME2 when Shepherd was 'dead': all that needed to be done was to say that Shepherd had lost some balance through the ordeal, but no. If we must have bi options, they missed the boat in my opinion. 

You say "Shepard has been straight for two games", but you don't provide any examples of this. Shepard has had the option to express a heterosexual lifestyle in two games, but in no way is Shepard forced to pursue heterosexual romance. Shepard can tell all the opposite-sex LIs to go away, how is that proving he's straight?

[Ghost Warrior]

Phaelducan wrote...

No, all people are asking for is to "all of a sudden" be able to pursue a relationship the way they would like to. If it in ME1 or ME2 no one would care. It wasn't, and now it will be for ME3, which is why it's stupid. Hell, for that matter it's disempowering. Bioware is essentially saying that Shepard all of  a sudden turned gay, which is ridiculous. 

His relationships are not a key point in any case, they are minor, in that they represent functionally maybe 2-3 minutes of dialog and one extra short cut scene in a game of 30-60 hours. Drop in the bucket, and not worth even MORE resources to provide MORE diversity for most of us who quite frankly don't care. I want a good end to the narrative, not more awkward dialog to sort through to avoid a "whoops Anders" moment.

Again, to beat a dead horse, go play some Fallout to see this issue tackled well. This is just simply a poor way to represent sexual orientation in a video game.

Good post Phaelducan,but they refuse to understand that. They all think that we are buch of gay-haters,but the truth is we only ask "why now?"

[Centauri2002]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Ignoring the posts from people patting each other on the back for agreeing with one another...

I'd just like to ask those who have a problem with this why it even matters? If you don't want to see it, don't choose those options. You won't be exposed to it at all so it won't even be relevant to your save file. By your reasoning, if you don't see something in your game then it never happened. If your Kaiden (used for example purposes) isn't romanced by your MaleShep then you can feel free to believe him to be straight. I won't begrudge that. But don't ask that other people be prevented from enjoying their own games any less.

But I'm asking again,why now. What changed between ME2 and ME3?

It should have happened sooner. It didn't. Better to change that double standard late than never, I say.

[DaeJi]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

But I'm asking again,why now. What changed between ME2 and ME3?

Shepard found someone to be with. Too complex?

[Xilizhra]

But I'm asking again,why now. What changed between ME2 and ME3?

The ME dev team removed their heads from their asses.

[bleetman]

Phaelducan wrote...

No, all people are asking for is to "all of a sudden" be able to pursue a relationship the way they would like to. If it in ME1 or ME2 no one would care.

Yes, they would. Unless I misunderstood that whole 'Dragon Age 2 is pandering to the gay community/neglecting the straight male gamer' bull**** that conincided with its release.

[SennenScale]

Xilizhra wrote...

Interesting thing that I've noticed: by and large, the people who keep saying that sexuality is a vital part of one's personality are straight. Far more of those who disagree are not. Why might this be?

A lot of straight people think gay people are fundamentally different from them...or rather, that BEING GAY makes somebody fundamentally different from a straight person.

A lot of straight people also think bisexual = sleep with everything.

Me,  I never saw being attracted to the opposite sex as being a defining aspect of my personality. It'a a drop in the bucket of who I am. Being a pale, freckled ginger affects me more than being straight! 

Modifié par SennenScale, 16 mai 2011 - 05:47 .