6696 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

but the truth is we only ask "why now?"

Why not now?

Bolje ikad nego nikad.

[Thepeak12]

Personally I'd want the VS and james vega to be bi but that's it. If Garrus turned bi I'm going to rage.

[Xilizhra]

SennenScale wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Interesting thing that I've noticed: by and large, the people who keep saying that sexuality is a vital part of one's personality are straight. Far more of those who disagree are not. Why might this be?

A lot of straight people think gay people are fundamentally different from them...or rather, that BEING GAY makes you fundamentally different from a straight person.

A lot of straight people also think bisexual = sleep with everything.

Me,  I never saw being attracted to the opposite sex as being a defining aspect of my personality. It'a a drop in the bucket of who I am. Being a pale, freckled ginger affects me more than being straight! 

As I suspected.

[Clonedzero]

DaeJi wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

yes, but the backround is there. as in not blank. lol

he/she either saw his whole unit die on akuze, executed a bunch of batarians on torfon, or rallied some civilians to defend a colony during the skillian blitz

thats still far more defined backround that most of the other characters on bioware games.

you also define his/her childhood as well.

I can only speak for BioWare games from Knights of the Old Republic on, but Shepard is the only character where you can change their background. Sure, some dialog options pop up to let your player character comment on their background, but the events are always set. Not so with Shepard. The closest you can get to that in a BioWare game is Dragon Age 2, where Hawke's background can be changed if you choose a mage or warrior/rogue.

right, but in DA2 aside from living in lothering the past couple years your entire backstory is blank, as in non existant. you could say your hawke spent his childhood as a circus preformer to raise money for his family, or was a thieve, or was in a gang or was a simple farmer, ect. ect. ect.  his backround is blank.

shepard either grew up as an orphan on earth and joined a gang early on and eventually joined the military as a way to escape the gang life.

grew up as a military brat in space going from cruiser to cruiser space station to space station following his mother on her postings.

or grew up on a small farming colony till it was raided by slavers.

his childhood is predefined. sure you have a couple choices, but shepards childhood goes one of 3 ways. you cant make up your own childhood for him

[AngelicMachinery]

You ask why now, I ask why not? I can ask vague questions too.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 16 mai 2011 - 05:46 .

[Ghost Warrior]

DaeJi wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

But I'm asking again,why now. What changed between ME2 and ME3?

Shepard found someone to be with. Too complex?

Some them were there since ME1,others since ME2. He could(should) have found them sooner. Too complex?

That is why I accept new gay characters,but not old ones turning bi(most of them,anyway).

[TheMarshal]

Phaelducan wrote...

No, all people are asking for is to "all of a sudden" be able to pursue a relationship the way they would like to. If it in ME1 or ME2 no one would care. It wasn't, and now it will be for ME3, which is why it's stupid. Hell, for that matter it's disempowering. Bioware is essentially saying that Shepard all of  a sudden turned gay, which is ridiculous. 

His relationships are not a key point in any case, they are minor, in that they represent functionally maybe 2-3 minutes of dialog and one extra short cut scene in a game of 30-60 hours. Drop in the bucket, and not worth even MORE resources to provide MORE diversity for most of us who quite frankly don't care. I want a good end to the narrative, not more awkward dialog to sort through to avoid a "whoops Anders" moment.

Again, to beat a dead horse, go play some Fallout to see this issue tackled well. This is just simply a poor way to represent sexual orientation in a video game.

First point: Tali and Garrus were not romanceable in ME1, "suddenly" were so in ME2.  I'm curious if that caused an issue for you (I honestly can't remember if I've asked you this question before, but it feels like I'm having the same argument over and over).

Second point: Unless Bioware strips MaleShep of the ability to romance women, including the women he has romanced in the past, there is no way that Shepard can "turn gay".  Your assertion that having the option available to those that seek to exercise it somehow makes him canonically gay is way off the mark.

Third point: Avoiding an "Anders" moment isn't any more difficult than avoiding any OTHER unwanted romance.  "I think of you as a great friend" is really that much of a buzzkill for you that you'd prefer to have it left out of the game entirely than allow the people who actually might want to take a different path to do so?

Fourth point: Saying that resources are being "wasted" on s/s romances, while in the same breath calling the romances a "minor" part of the game does very little to prove your point.

I haven't played Fallout.  Is there any particular one you suggest?

[Ryzaki]

SennenScale wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Interesting thing that I've noticed: by and large, the people who keep saying that sexuality is a vital part of one's personality are straight. Far more of those who disagree are not. Why might this be?

A lot of straight people think gay people are fundamentally different from them...or rather, that BEING GAY makes you fundamentally different from a straight person.

A lot of straight people also think bisexual = sleep with everything.

Me,  I never saw being attracted to the opposite sex as being a defining aspect of my personality. It'a a drop in the bucket of who I am. Being a pale, freckled ginger affects me more than being straight! 

Agreed. 

Well on everything except the pale, freckled ginger bit. 

[Ghost Warrior]

Thepeak12 wrote...

Personally I'd want the VS and james vega to be bi but that's it. If Garrus turned bi I'm going to rage.

And I'm going to join you

[Siansonea]

Yeah, why NOT now? What is so pre-defined about EVERY SHEPARD that precludes the possibility of same-sex interest? Especially since the female version of Shepard already pushes that boundary? Maybe it takes male Shepard a little longer to find a willing partner, but that doesn't mean some male Shepards haven't been just as interested as FemShep has been in a little same-sex action.

[Someone With Mass]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Thepeak12 wrote...

Personally I'd want the VS and james vega to be bi but that's it. If Garrus turned bi I'm going to rage.

And I'm going to join you

Same. 

Garrus had no problem getting some action as hetro, so why change something that works?

[Clonedzero]

SennenScale wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Interesting thing that I've noticed: by and large, the people who keep saying that sexuality is a vital part of one's personality are straight. Far more of those who disagree are not. Why might this be?

A lot of straight people think gay people are fundamentally different from them...or rather, that BEING GAY makes you fundamentally different from a straight person.

A lot of straight people also think bisexual = sleep with everything.

Me,  I never saw being attracted to the opposite sex as being a defining aspect of my personality. It'a a drop in the bucket of who I am. Being a pale, freckled ginger affects me more than being straight! 

i d ont believe anyone was saying it was a defining aspect of peoples personalities. just that it had an effect on their personality.

its pretty ignorant to say your sexuality has no effect on your behavior or opinions.

the simple fact that you are attracted to some people and not others fundmentally changes your perspective of the world and of people. not saying its a huge thing or massively alters someones behavior but it does have some effect.

[Phaelducan]

bleetman wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

No, all people are asking for is to "all of a sudden" be able to pursue a relationship the way they would like to. If it in ME1 or ME2 no one would care.

Yes, they would. Unless I misunderstood that whole 'Dragon Age 2 is pandering to the gay community/neglecting the straight male gamer' bull**** that conincided with its release.

No offense to any of them, but straight up the DA2 posters are crazy. That forum is nuttier than a bar of granola.
This is about the Mass Effect Trilogy, and to be honest it's totally different anyway since Hawke was a new character and David Gaider could make him attracted to turnips for all I care.

Shepard had two full games to establish who he/she was and who(m?) he/she was interested in. It was NOT an oversight in the development process, the character simply wasn't gay. Now all of a sudden, Shepard can be, and that is, frankly, stupid. You don't turn gay, and the writers are doing a foolish and shortsighted thing by allowing Shepard to do just that.

For that matter, why is it offensive to the gay community for a strong male or female "blank-slate" type character to not be able to be gay in the first place? Why is it any different for a sexual orientation to be predetermined on the straight side then the bisexual side? 

[Clonedzero]

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, why NOT now? What is so pre-defined about EVERY SHEPARD that precludes the possibility of same-sex interest? Especially since the female version of Shepard already pushes that boundary? Maybe it takes male Shepard a little longer to find a willing partner, but that doesn't mean some male Shepards haven't been just as interested as FemShep has been in a little same-sex action.

oh what? i wasnt saying shepards predefined backround suggested he was a specific sexual orientation.

you can be gay and be in a gang, you can be gay and be a miltiary brat, you can be gay and be a farmer colonist.

[Wonderllama4]

my dreams of a lesbian affair with Miranda is finally coming true

[Ryzaki]

If Shepard is predefined to be straight why hasn't my Shepard slept with a single woman despite mulitple opportunities?

[Clonedzero]

Brodyaha wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
His childhood is predefined. sure you have a couple choices, but shepards childhood goes one of 3 ways. you cant make up your own childhood for him.

You can make up the details within that childhood though.

I have two colonist Sheps who had completely different childhoods from each other.

well yeah, im just saying its less "blank" than other bioware characters.

all my shepards are colonists as well, and its all slightly different, you just dont have total freedom in thier backround is all i was saying.

[Xilizhra]

Shepard had two full games to establish who he/she was and who(m?) he/she was interested in. It was NOT an oversight in the development process, the character simply wasn't gay. Now all of a sudden, Shepard can be, and that is, frankly, stupid. You don't turn gay, and the writers are doing a foolish and shortsighted thing by allowing Shepard to do just that.

First of all, note that this is only an issue (if that) for male Shepard. Female Shepard's already had two gay options.
As for why male Shepard hasn't flirted with other males... there could be plenty of reasons, which we don't know yet; perhaps they'll come up in-game. But your condemnation comes far too quickly.

For that matter, why is it offensive to the gay community for a strong male or female "blank-slate" type character to not be able to be gay in the first place? Why is it any different for a sexual orientation to be predetermined on the straight side then the bisexual side?

You want to be straight? Don't flirt with the same sex. Done.

[TheMarshal]

Phaelducan wrote...

For that matter, why is it offensive to the gay community for a strong male or female "blank-slate" type character to not be able to be gay in the first place? Why is it any different for a sexual orientation to be predetermined on the straight side then the bisexual side? 

If you really can't comprehend why someone of a minority would take offense to the idea that a strong 'blank-slate' type character cannot be of their minority, then...  I just...  I don't know...

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Interesting thing that I've noticed: by and large, the people who keep saying that sexuality is a vital part of one's personality are straight. Far more of those who disagree are not. Why might this be?

A lot of straight people think gay people are fundamentally different from them...or rather, that BEING GAY makes you fundamentally different from a straight person.

A lot of straight people also think bisexual = sleep with everything.

Me,  I never saw being attracted to the opposite sex as being a defining aspect of my personality. It'a a drop in the bucket of who I am. Being a pale, freckled ginger affects me more than being straight! 

i d ont believe anyone was saying it was a defining aspect of peoples personalities. just that it had an effect on their personality.

its pretty ignorant to say your sexuality has no effect on your behavior or opinions.

the simple fact that you are attracted to some people and not others fundmentally changes your perspective of the world and of people. not saying its a huge thing or massively alters someones behavior but it does have some effect.

So where in the game is an example of Shepard's sexuality informing non-romance interaction? Does Gay Shepard shoot Collectors differently than Straight Shepard? Because FemShep and MaleShep don't seem to do very much differently than each other (BTW, close your legs when you're wearing a skirt, FemShep).

[Ghost Warrior]

To people comparing Tali/Garrus becoming LIs in ME2:
It's not the same. In ME1 they weren't interested in neither female or male Shepard or they didn't think it was good time because of "race against time" thing.

In ME2,they either both realize their feelings for Shepard (because of the person Shepard is) and they express it,but only for opposite-sex Shepard.If they were truly bisexual,then they wouldn't care what sex Shepard is,and both male and female Shep would have been able to romance them.That or they always felt something for Shepard,and they thought "we are on a suicide mission,it's now or never".

Either way,it's not the same as this bi problem

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, why NOT now? What is so pre-defined about EVERY SHEPARD that precludes the possibility of same-sex interest? Especially since the female version of Shepard already pushes that boundary? Maybe it takes male Shepard a little longer to find a willing partner, but that doesn't mean some male Shepards haven't been just as interested as FemShep has been in a little same-sex action.

oh what? i wasnt saying shepards predefined backround suggested he was a specific sexual orientation.

you can be gay and be in a gang, you can be gay and be a miltiary brat, you can be gay and be a farmer colonist.

So how exactly does your "why now?" trump our "why not now?" then?

[Clonedzero]

Phaelducan wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

No, all people are asking for is to "all of a sudden" be able to pursue a relationship the way they would like to. If it in ME1 or ME2 no one would care.

Yes, they would. Unless I misunderstood that whole 'Dragon Age 2 is pandering to the gay community/neglecting the straight male gamer' bull**** that conincided with its release.

No offense to any of them, but straight up the DA2 posters are crazy. That forum is nuttier than a bar of granola.
This is about the Mass Effect Trilogy, and to be honest it's totally different anyway since Hawke was a new character and David Gaider could make him attracted to turnips for all I care.

Shepard had two full games to establish who he/she was and who(m?) he/she was interested in. It was NOT an oversight in the development process, the character simply wasn't gay. Now all of a sudden, Shepard can be, and that is, frankly, stupid. You don't turn gay, and the writers are doing a foolish and shortsighted thing by allowing Shepard to do just that.

For that matter, why is it offensive to the gay community for a strong male or female "blank-slate" type character to not be able to be gay in the first place? Why is it any different for a sexual orientation to be predetermined on the straight side then the bisexual side? 

well, what if shepard couldnt be black?

not the same obviously, but close enough to make my point.

shepard is supposed to be the "badass space hero version" of yourself. if the player is gay and shepard cant be gay then theres that little break in immersion for them

[Xilizhra]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

To people comparing Tali/Garrus becoming LIs in ME2:
It's not the same. In ME1 they weren't interested in neither female or male Shepard or they didn't think it was good time because of "race against time" thing.

In ME2,they either both realize their feelings for Shepard (because of the person Shepard is) and they express it,but only for opposite-sex Shepard.If they were truly bisexual,then they wouldn't care what sex Shepard is,and both male and female Shep would have been able to romance them.That or they always felt something for Shepard,and they thought "we are on a suicide mission,it's now or never".

Either way,it's not the same as this bi problem

You make quite a few assumptions about bisexual people. It's not a simple thing. Perhaps Tali thought Shepard would be offended. Male Shepard never had a chance to flirt with Garrus at all. There are far more possibilities than you seem to accept.