6696 réponses à ce sujet

[dewayne31]

like it finally...i'm not m/m but happy it in the game for those who are in to it. i do play f/f atleast once. if they former squad members. here my list

Ash/kaiden
tali....not my type but just a hunch
thane...not sure why but there
miranda was supposely to be bi in me2.
jacob...fits his character
and hopefully Samara

[Praetor Knight]

And for a touch of silly humor: y u no serious


But seriously though, I say lets switch gears here with the endless discussion!

javierabegazo wrote...

Do you feel this opens up the Role Playing options available to players?

Yes.

And there's always youtube to watch other's choices for romances and dialogue.

What new characters might we expect to be available for such romances?

I guess those few mentioned before, but I won't mention them again here.

For me at least, surprises are welcome as long as the characters are well written.
I expect quality, but Dostoevsky-like complexity I'm not so sure is necessary.

[dreman9999]

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
*snip*
You're trying to deny that asari are female, when they clearly, you know, give birth to baby asari. And Shepard wasn't "established" as anything in ME1, because Shepard didn't HAVE to pursue romance AT ALL. Shepard can tell Liara AND Ashley "how about no", then in ME2 tell Miranda, Jack, and Tali "how about no". So what exactly has been "established" for ALL MALE SHEPARDS, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Asari are also fathers, so like I said in my first post: don't give me any of this arogant rubbish. You cannot take Bioware's creation and make it your own. 


If Shepherd doesn't pursue a romance, that doesn't make his character any less straight, because Bioware decided that the available romances would be straight, as they were in ME2, apart from the aimless fraterrnisation with Kelly for female Shepherds.

I'm not doing anything of the kind. A human female can "father" an asari child. Does that make her a man? Clearly you're the one attempting to rewrite the Codex, pal.

Why should it matter who fathers the child? How can asari be purely female if they can play the reproductive role of both genders?

Well, it's not that simple, is it? And guess what, if asari ARE hermaphrodites or whatever you want to call them, GUESS WHAT THAT MEANS.  That's right, your precious MaleShep, who is banging Liara, is banging a HERMAPHRODITE. So do you STILL want to maintain that asari aren't female?

Yes. For me, at least, asari are neither male or female in human classification, so neither male or female Shepherd romancing Liara can be called gay with any degree of finality.

You know what happens when you don't pursue romance? You remain UNDECLARED. Your simplistic notion is like saying everyone who you've never seen eat Mexican food automatically prefers Chinese food.

Of course, but there's been TWO GAMES where Shepherd has been straight (Kelly notwitstanding, but I'm not sure she counts at this stage). And like I said again, Bioware had a good chance to introduce bi options in ME2 when Shepherd was 'dead': all that needed to be done was to say that Shepherd had lost some balance through the ordeal, but no. If we must have bi options, they missed the boat in my opinion. 

You say "Shepard has been straight for two games", but you don't provide any examples of this. Shepard has had the option to express a heterosexual lifestyle in two games, but in no way is Shepard forced to pursue heterosexual romance. Shepard can tell all the opposite-sex LIs to go away, how is that proving he's straight?

Why should I? Just because you don't like it doesn't Bioware didn't originally intend Shepherd to be straight, for whatever reason, and it's because of several unsatisfied fans that we've got the addition of bi options at this ludicrously late stage in Shepherd's story.

How many times does it have to be said that there's no cannon in ME. With that, nothing in the story saysthat Shep is into women only or is not gay. If play astraight Shep.....Play a straght Shep.....If someone want to paly a gay Shep....let them.

[ipgd]

Darth Death wrote...

First off, your beginning sentence contradicts itself & the rest you've said is the same excessive, exasperating, misinterpret argument that has been going on for a while now. Making the male shep gay is random & flat out stupid (for he wasn't gay in the past two games). If the male shep was gay in ME then I wouldn't care, but to abruptly turn him gay despite him never showing any gay affections is retarded. BioWare should have plan this from the get-go as far as consistency is concerned. 

My Shepard was always gay. Neither ME1 nor 2 force Shepard to show any interest in women at all, were he not so inclined.

[Ryzaki]

InvaderErl wrote...
There is a dialogue in which Morrigan questions the Warden on where he thinks the relationship is going and whether he could actually see them living a white picket fence style existence and when the Warden asks if that really is so bad she admits maybe not.

I remember mocking laughter during that conversaton. Yet another nail in the coffin for me then. 

See I can't argue with subjective opinion. Saying I didn't like it doesn't give me anything to talk about. I respect your opinion but *shrug*

 

Thats the issue. The badness of "generic romances" is subjective. I rather have something generic than something that makes me want to smack someone through the screen. Not to mention I didn't see the DA2 romances as genric anyways. 

As for the power and gender conventions Morrigan sees herself as somebody who manipulates men with her body - she wants to be independent and seems to use her role as femme fatale in that manner and yet her plan involves fulfilling a very traditional female role. However, by removing the male figure out of the familial picture she does in fact take by agency in the matter to a certain degree. I don't want to turn this into a Dragon Age debate by going further but there are plenty of elements like that.

 

Oi vey. I remember that. My female characters was mostly annoyed at the slap in the face by BW for that crap. Her plan involves a female role to achieve her goals of independancy. I didn't really see anything special about that.  

I'm saying all the elements I've mentioned are actually there in the game. They are there in the dialogue and such as opposed to me saying that Morrigan has elements of Morgan le Fay from the King Arthur myth or something which would be reaching outside the source material so to speak. Essentially, I'm not looking at dynamics and concepts that aren't already in the story.

And I'm fairly certain if I wanted to drag up a bunch of concepts on Zevran and Leliana I could. 

That's... what I said.

It is. But you seem to see that as some bad thing to me. It isn't to m. It's a great thing to me, a superior thing even. 

I think Witch Hunt was an absolute abomination of the Morrigan story. The DA franchise has been on the wane since the end of Origins and this was just another nail in the coffin. There were ways to resolve that story. Them basically running into one another's arms was not it.

So we agree at last! 

If I remember correctly Siha has to do with the goddess Areshu.

Could've named him after a male wargod in a male shepard's case. That doesn't make the "Don't replace me with your dead wife." conversation any more important. 

Gender conventions are great when you like them sure. When you don't however it's like watching someone stick needles in your eye. Not to mention I hate Morrigan as a character and find many of her "femme fatale." attributes to be informed and made up by herself. She didn't successfully ensnare any of my characters with her "charms". If charming means acting like a conniving witch and successfully alienating the two people who could help you in your goal. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 06:45 .

[Ryzaki]

UGH SHOW UP STUPID POST

[InvaderErl]

Ryzaki wrote...

Your quotes are horribly messed up.

fixed.

[Sylvianus]

Congratulations to all homosexuals. You deserve it. I always thought, that an injustice had been done in M2.

Now it will be repaired. If the new romances are only gay, I'll be happy. Enrichment for Mass Effect, and especially for the characters. that's what counts and should count.

They will have a tendency, a story, an explanation. They will not be sloppy in a ridiculous system as DA2.

Bioware needs to make gay romance, bi and hetero, it is the best thing to do.

I disagreed with many people, but this time, I share the joy of everyone. Consistency respected and new options.

Of course it can still change, but we will not spoil it with bad thoughts.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 mai 2011 - 06:43 .

[SennenScale]

Clonedzero wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

your personality is a pretty damn broad thing. but i can see you're one of those ultra difficult to talk to people so im not going to both lol. i mean you take apart the hypothetical based on your location rather than actually looking at the hypothetical.. come on...

lame.

The point I was making was that it doesn't come into consideration for me. It just doesn't. That might make me odd, but it shows that allowing this stuff to have such an effect on you is by no means universal.

im not basing my opinion on that by anecdoatal personal evidence. im basing it on countless sociological and psychological studies lol

your sexual orientation and preference DOES have an effect on your personality. whether its a huge effect or not, or even if its conscious  or in your subconscious it absolutely does have an effect on your personality and behavior.

Let's say I were to accept such an idea. I do not, but let's pretend for a moment. There is nothing in anything Shepard is forced to do that makes him straight or gay. Nor is this an area which we can safely judge such.

Modifié par SennenScale, 16 mai 2011 - 06:45 .

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

your personality is a pretty damn broad thing. but i can see you're one of those ultra difficult to talk to people so im not going to both lol. i mean you take apart the hypothetical based on your location rather than actually looking at the hypothetical.. come on...

lame.

The point I was making was that it doesn't come into consideration for me. It just doesn't. That might make me odd, but it shows that allowing this stuff to have such an effect on you is by no means universal.

im not basing my opinion on that by anecdoatal personal evidence. im basing it on countless sociological and psychological studies lol

your sexual orientation and preference DOES have an effect on your personality. whether its a huge effect or not, or even if its conscious  or in your subconscious it absolutely does have an effect on your personality and behavior.

And all we're saying is that nothing that happens in EVERY game precludes Shepard from being gay or bisexual, especially since FemShep can actually express those leanings quite clearly. What is there in MaleShepard's unavoidable dialog that would prevent him from being gay or bi?

[CajNatalie]

Wow, people are getting so angry about new LI paths that they don't even need to take and can completely ignore.

Pathetic.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 16 mai 2011 - 06:45 .

[Siansonea]

Sylvianus wrote...

Congratulations to all homosexuals. You deserve it. I always thought, that an injustice had been done in M2.

Now it will be repaired. If the new romances are only gay, I'll be happy. Enrichment for Mass Effect, and especially for the characters. that's what counts and should count.

They will have a tendency, a story, an explanation. They will not be sloppy in a ridiculous system as DA2.

Bioware needs to make gay romance, bi and hetero, it is the best thing to do.

I disagreed with many people, but this time, I share the joy of everyone. Consistency respected and new options.

Of course it can still change, but we will not spoil it with bad thoughts.

I think congratulations are in order to everyone who wanted this to happen, not just homosexuals, but the sentiment is nice. It's refreshing when people recognize that adding options actually helps the overall product. After all, adding more options makes the ones you choose all the more meaningful. Now Straight Shepard can actually declare himself to be straight, by NOT pursuing the gay romance options. I'm surprised that hasn't occurred to more people already.

[Phaelducan]

ipgd wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

First off, your beginning sentence contradicts itself & the rest you've said is the same excessive, exasperating, misinterpret argument that has been going on for a while now. Making the male shep gay is random & flat out stupid (for he wasn't gay in the past two games). If the male shep was gay in ME then I wouldn't care, but to abruptly turn him gay despite him never showing any gay affections is retarded. BioWare should have plan this from the get-go as far as consistency is concerned. 

My Shepard was always gay. Neither ME1 nor 2 force Shepard to show any interest in women at all, were he not so inclined.

That's ridiculous, no offense. Bioware wrote the game, you played the game. They wrote the game without gay options, thus he wasn't gay. Pointless discussion. Was Mario gay because he didn't show romantic interest in Peach? How about Link? Master Chief? 

Dude, if there is NO coded option for a character to be gay, yet multiple ones for them being straight, then the decision you make not to engage in a romance does not show evidence for their sexual preference. That's just ignorant.

So if I skip the cutscene in Assassin's Creed where Ezio has a tryst, I guess "my Ezio" was really homosexual?

Come on, be realistic.

[Clonedzero]

SennenScale wrote...


Let's say I were to accept such an idea. I do not, but let's pretend for a moment. There is nothing in anything Shepard does that makes him straight or gay. Nor is this an area which we can safely judge such.

where did i suggest that?

in fact a couple pages back i wrote a reason explaining why shepard could in fact be gay and tis entirely up to the person controlling shepard to roleplay the part.

i was just saying that your sexual orientation (or even lack there of) indeed does have an effect on your personality. noticable? maybe not.

[Nimrodell]

The only thing I ask from BW is - never in dialogues mistake friendship with romance. Learn from Anders awkward situation and never ever do that. I am for freedom of choice and do support options for every sexual orientation, but also I feel directly violated as heterosexual in Anders case... There was clear romance option but also hidden one if one actually expresses friendly understanding... it was either be rude with him, say something that is utterly idiotic, or be gay. So, just don't do it anymore BW please. Yes, I know it is selfish from me, but I would appreciate if such scenario doesn't repeat, at least not that early in the game... it was just too shallow and awkward. To clarify things, I am female player that played male Hawke at that time, so no, it wasn't even some homophobic thing... simply it was bad.

[Bad King]

CajNatalie wrote...

Wow, people are getting so angry about new LI paths that they don't even need to take and can completely ignore.

Pathetic.

Agreed. All it's doing is enriching the roleplaying experience, nobody is being forced to do anything.

[TheMarshal]

Phaelducan wrote...

You are missing the point. Say I'm Irish (just for the sake of argument), and not just Irish descent, but actually Irish. Should I be offended that Shep can't also be Irish?

Appearances notwithstanding, what if I want Shep to speak Gaelic, or have my accent? Or in any other way look/sound/act like I do. 

If I can't get that, why does that mean I have to be offended? Aren't we mature enough to accept that not everyone should be represented by our own minority?

Bioware already does a pretty good job of allowing for lots of diversity, but it doesn't have to be everything, for all of their games. The last AAA title allowed for a gay protagonist, and now the next one will as well... even though it's the third in a trilogy in which the first two did NOT allow for that option.

Stop playing the "anyone who disagrees with me is committing a hate crime" card. It's simply that ME3 shouldn't have to change what is in 2 and 1 just to appease a vocal minority. He wasn't gay (quantifiably, or he would have had options to romance same-sex), and now he can be. That's a change, which is irritating.

Why can't Shepard be Irish?  Earthborn Shepards don't explicitly state what part of Earth they were from.  You're welcome to state that they're Irish and build up a backstory around it.  It just so happens that Shepard's locality doesn't play a major factor in any aspect of the game.  You could be disappointed that Shepard can't speak with an accent, or that Shepard is a righty and not a lefty, or that they can't have a mohawk, but "limitations of development time" blah blah blah...

Of course that's not the point of the previous statement.  The point was that you didn't see an issue with saying that a certain minority cannot define their made-up character to be like them.  And if you want to bring up the whole Irish thing again, you can, but outside of England and 1920's North America, the Irish aren't really a minority that has a lot of hate surrounding them.

And I'm not saying that you're committing a hate crime by throwing up weak arguments in an attempt to explain why you don't want to allow (other people's) Shepards to have s/s romances in ME3.

[DaeJi]

CajNatalie wrote...

Wow, people are getting so angry about new LI paths that they don't even need to take and can completely ignore.

Pathetic.

Stop trying to make them understand logic, their blind hatred and bigotness is far too entertaining to want to see it stop!

[Clonedzero]

DaeJi wrote...

CajNatalie wrote...

Wow, people are getting so angry about new LI paths that they don't even need to take and can completely ignore.

Pathetic.

Stop trying to make them understand logic, their blind hatred and bigotness is far too entertaining to want to see it stop!

its sorta hypocrititcal to label people bigots when that might not necessaryily be the reason they arent happy about this change.

labeling someone a bigot simply for disagreeing with you is just as toxic and hateful as being the bigot in the first place.

[InvaderErl]

Ryzaki wrote...


And I'm fairly certain if I wanted to drag up a bunch of concepts on Zevran and Leliana I could. 

I'm sure you could, what I am saying though is gender played an intrinsic role in the Morrigan romance and would not have been possible with a female Warden whereas the Zevran and Leliana romances operate regardless.

Ryzaki wrote...
It is. But you seem to see that as some bad thing to me. It isn't to m. It's a great thing to me, a superior thing even.

I didn't, but I don't see it as inherently superior - its just a different type of romance. The Morrigan/Alistair romances do things the Leliana/Zevran one's can't and vice versa. 

Ryzaki wrote...

So we agree at last! 

The funny thing is Gaider essentially said prior that he felt like the people asking for Morrigan resolution were asking for something like this and criticized them to which posters responded they didn't want that, that it would be disingenious to what had been set up before.


And then he goes and does exactly that.

*sigh*

Ryzaki wrote...

Could've named him after a male wargod in a male shepard's case. That doesn't make the "Don't replace me with your dead wife." conversation any more important. 

If I remember correctly he says that when he first saw his wife he thought she was also the Goddess Areshu so I think Shepard being female is kind of important as far as that connection goes.

[ipgd]

Phaelducan wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

First off, your beginning sentence contradicts itself & the rest you've said is the same excessive, exasperating, misinterpret argument that has been going on for a while now. Making the male shep gay is random & flat out stupid (for he wasn't gay in the past two games). If the male shep was gay in ME then I wouldn't care, but to abruptly turn him gay despite him never showing any gay affections is retarded. BioWare should have plan this from the get-go as far as consistency is concerned. 

My Shepard was always gay. Neither ME1 nor 2 force Shepard to show any interest in women at all, were he not so inclined.

That's ridiculous, no offense. Bioware wrote the game, you played the game. They wrote the game without gay options, thus he wasn't gay. Pointless discussion. Was Mario gay because he didn't show romantic interest in Peach? How about Link? Master Chief? 

Dude, if there is NO coded option for a character to be gay, yet multiple ones for them being straight, then the decision you make not to engage in a romance does not show evidence for their sexual preference. That's just ignorant.

So if I skip the cutscene in Assassin's Creed where Ezio has a tryst, I guess "my Ezio" was really homosexual?

Come on, be realistic.

Shepard cannot have sex with a man in ME1 or 2 because there are no men who express any interest in him. There is no point at which Shepard is forced to show interest in women or forced to show disinterest in men. Celibate Gay Shepard is well within the realms of the RP choices established in 1 and 2.

Oh, are we sharing these now?

[Nekemekem]

CajNatalie wrote...

Wow, people are getting so angry about new LI paths that they don't even need to take and can completely ignore.

Pathetic.

Quoted for truth and pretty much sums up the entire ordeal and anyone getting their delicates in a twist over this awesome addition to the game for anyone wanting to pursue it. Why my save game and the choices I made with my Shepard would make anyone raegfaec is really beyond me.

[Wereparrot]

Siansonea II wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...




Well, it's not that simple, is it? And guess what, if asari ARE hermaphrodites or whatever you want to call them, GUESS WHAT THAT MEANS.  That's right, your precious MaleShep, who is banging Liara, is banging a HERMAPHRODITE. So do you STILL want to maintain that asari aren't female?

Yes. For me, at least, asari are neither male or female in human classification, so neither male or female Shepherd romancing Liara can be called gay with any degree of finality.

Well, you realize that means neither of them can be called STRAIGHT with any degree of finality too, right? After all, a heterosexual relationship is a relationship with someone of the OPPOSITE sex. If Liara isn't female (as you said, she CAN father a child), then MaleShepard is having sex with someone who could be another creature's FATHER. So you can either have MaleShepard is Straight, but FemShepard is Gay, or both of them are NEITHER Straight nor Gay when dealing with asari. In both these scenarios, you have a NON-HETEROSEXUAL SHEPARD.

But you can't call Shepherd gay either, and that's the point. It is something beyond the realms of reality, and for this you surely must make allowances.

Of course, but there's been TWO GAMES where Shepherd has been straight (Kelly notwitstanding, but I'm not sure she counts at this stage). And like I said again, Bioware had a good chance to introduce bi options in ME2 when Shepherd was 'dead': all that needed to be done was to say that Shepherd had lost some balance through the ordeal, but no. If we must have bi options, they missed the boat in my opinion. 

You say "Shepard has been straight for two games", but you don't provide any examples of this. Shepard has had the option to express a heterosexual lifestyle in two games, but in no way is Shepard forced to pursue heterosexual romance. Shepard can tell all the opposite-sex LIs to go away, how is that proving he's straight?

Why should I? Just because you don't like it doesn't Bioware didn't originally intend Shepherd to be straight, for whatever reason, and it's because of several unsatisfied fans that we've got the addition of bi options at this ludicrously late stage in Shepherd's story.

Well, "just because you don't like it" doesn't mean that BioWare isn't perfectly within their rights to include same-sex options for Shepard now. Why do you think BioWare should cater to you, but not to the rest of us? Why are you so freakin' special?


And, you didn't answer my question. Where is Shepard forced to declare that he is heterosexual? How is telling all the girls he's not interested proving he's heterosexual?

So Shepherd could be racist or otherwise prejudiced because he's not forced to declare that he's not?

Modifié par Wereparrot, 16 mai 2011 - 06:59 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Phaelducan wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

First off, your beginning sentence contradicts itself & the rest you've said is the same excessive, exasperating, misinterpret argument that has been going on for a while now. Making the male shep gay is random & flat out stupid (for he wasn't gay in the past two games). If the male shep was gay in ME then I wouldn't care, but to abruptly turn him gay despite him never showing any gay affections is retarded. BioWare should have plan this from the get-go as far as consistency is concerned. 

My Shepard was always gay. Neither ME1 nor 2 force Shepard to show any interest in women at all, were he not so inclined.

That's ridiculous, no offense. Bioware wrote the game, you played the game. They wrote the game without gay options, thus he wasn't gay. Pointless discussion. Was Mario gay because he didn't show romantic interest in Peach? How about Link? Master Chief? 

Dude, if there is NO coded option for a character to be gay, yet multiple ones for them being straight, then the decision you make not to engage in a romance does not show evidence for their sexual preference. That's just ignorant.

So if I skip the cutscene in Assassin's Creed where Ezio has a tryst, I guess "my Ezio" was really homosexual?

Come on, be realistic.

So If, for two years, the only interesting people who flirt with me are girls... and I don't sleep with them because I'm not into girls... I'm suddenly gay? I mean, that's happened to me before. Was I gay for those three years in Virginia when I met all those amazing girls, and the dudes were all lame and unattractive?

Girls hit on me. A lot. Sadly I've never had feelings for one of them enough to reciprocate. I've also had loooong patches of single-ness during which I didn't meet a single attractive and available guy. Does that mean I'm gay? 

That's basically what you're arguing: because women hit on me, and I haven't found any compatible dudes in a while, I'm actually gay. And man, I wish that were true. Sadly, the people who are available to you don't determine your sexuality. If they did, I would be a happy lesbian right now.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 16 mai 2011 - 07:01 .

[ipgd]

Wereparrot wrote...

So Shepherd could be racist or otherwise prejudiced because he's not forced to declare that he's not?

Yes. Hell, Shepard can be overtly racist/xenophobic in the text of the game already.