6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

Siansonea II wrote...

Well, you know you can always avoid that 'bad writing', by, you know, not sleeping with dudes in the game. But saying that no one should have that option because you think it's bad writing (without actually having seen the writing, I might add) is as silly as me saying that no one should have alien LI options because I personally think they're beyond ridiculous . I can still have my game the way I want it, with Devon Shepard, Martín Shepard and Ethan Shepard saying "how about no" to Tali when she gets all flustery, and Simone Shepard, Leah Shepard and Ashley Shepard never going there with Garrus, because, ew.

well why can't i want to experience an actually well done gay romance with one of my shepards?

i currently dont have a gay shepard but if they make a good gay romance in ME3 then i might make one. i personally would want it to make sense in context with the entire series. having a long term established character such as garrus only be bi in the third installment would be dumb. it wouldnt feel natural at all.

i want them to be well-written and believable. having them only available in the third game is not belieable.its silly and arbitrary.

i would think the people who care alot about s/s romances would actually want well crafted and natural feeling romances as well, but i guess they just wanna stamp "bi" on everyone and get generic copy/pasted romances with the pronouns replaced.

[FKA_Servo]

Clonedzero wrote...
]ah yes, resorting to a condesending attitude really makes you seem mature and wise.

all that was said was if a guy has sex with a girl, its not unreasonable to assume he's straight. might not be 100% accurate, but most of the time sure.

now this is a STORY. where characters should be well defined by this point, changing them around is poor writing, especially using the excuse "well they were always bi, they just never mentioned it till now" can you really not see how someone might feel thats really forced and dumb?

again, its insulting you assume im bigoted in any way. i have no problem with the s/s romances in the game. more power to you, just dont shoehorn existing characters into being bi because "they never said they werent" because again, ill say it slowly this time

its      bad         writing        to           change            characters          so          late        in         a          story.

Like many players, I felt working for Cerberus was forced and dumb.

That said, this isn't a story in the same sense that a novel or a movie is a story. It's a relatively open-ended roleplaying game, in which player choice plays a huge role. In many ways, each of the characters are what we want them to be. That's as it should be. I'm not going to deny the artistry and vision at work in this game - but it's a product. They want to sell it to us, so they provided the forums as an avenue for us to tell them what we want.

Again (I don't remember who made this observation) - the only people who don't want this are the ones who wouldn't play it in the first place. That's stupid. I've never played an Engineer, I don't insist they remove it from the game.

[SilentK]

Unless there has been some major new info that I have missed we dont know if it will be an already known LI declaring their love to a new Shep or s/s being presented with a new char. That said, if bioware wanted to make Kaidan, Ash, Garrus or Tali available I'm sure that they would make a build-up in game. I won't be

"Sorry about the trial, let's get it on".

But we don't know how s/s will be presented, only that it will be presented. Hoping for Tali or Ash myself.

[Barackus2]

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You keep saying bad writing.

I don't think you really know what that is.

you're saying a long established friend of a character suddenly declaring love for another character with no build up or explaination or anything wouldnt be dumb?

if in season 5 of Lost if Jack turned to Saywer and said "i've always loved you, lets be together" wouldnt you react like "wait what? where'd that come from?"

Buildup and explanation couldn't happen over the course of the events of ME3? You act like it's going to be like this:

ME3 Title Card. Scene: Earth: Opening dialogue:

Kaidan: Hi Shepard. I'm totally into dudes. Do you love me?

Shepard: Option 1: Yes Kaidan, I totally wuv you, come here you!
Shepard: Option 2: I don't love you, Kaidan, but I am totally into dudes too, OMG.
Shepard: Option 3: I hate you Kaidan! But I am totally into dudes.

THAT is bad writing. I'm thinking BioWare can do better.

Where is my renegade interrupt to punch him in the face :innocent:  Anyway Kaiden is totally gay for Shepard after replaying ME1, I'm changing my mind on him I support him going bi I guess.

[Jademoon121]

Mesina2 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

It's one guy that'll be bisexual, that's the only change so far. I don't want all bi crew.

Fix'ed!

Well I don't want to have EVERYONE as well.
It kills immersion.

Precisely. It's hard to make everyone seem genuine and organic.

[Siansonea]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Not if it's going to be like ME2. only a few characters in ME2 had depth.

Define "depth."  Because seriously, even Grunt surprised me with his character occasionally.  Searching for his own reasons and identity, trying to find purpose other than what Okeer handed to him?  A lot more philosophically intriguing than you'd expect from Baby Hulk-Smash.

Hell, Legion had the least screentime of them all, and he probably outshone Tali, who had two whole games to develop!

Not to mention Wrex, Ash, and Garrus in the first game.

I know, right? Characters I thought would be one-dimensional, like Samara, Mordin, Legion, Grunt, and Jack, ended up being awesome characters. Other characters who had lots and lots and LOTS to say ended up being boring as all heck *cough*Tali*cough.

[hoorayforicecream]

Siansonea II wrote...

Buildup and explanation couldn't happen over the course of the events of ME3? You act like it's going to be like this:

ME3 Title Card. Scene: Earth: Opening dialogue:

Kaidan: Hi Shepard. I'm totally into dudes. Do you love me?

Shepard: Option 1: Yes Kaidan, I totally wuv you, come here you!
Shepard: Option 2: I don't love you, Kaidan, but I am totally into dudes too, OMG.
Shepard: Option 3: I hate you Kaidan! But I am totally into dudes.

THAT is bad writing. I'm thinking BioWare can do better.

Ahem.

[PMC65]

TheMarshal wrote...

I'm going to ignore the parts about Moby Dick and A Tale of Two Cities because I don't think you're stupid enough to actually compare static works of literature to a video game where the first thing you do is create the protagonist.  If the opening line of Moby Dick was "Please choose Captain Ahab's first name" THEN you might be onto something.  But even then, your story and my story would not necessarily converge.

Can I be Darcy in "Pride And Prejudice"? I have loved Elizabeth Bennett since my teenage years.

[JeffZero]

I liked Tali a hell of a lot more in ME2 than I did in ME1. Probably had something to do with the 'giving her things to do' part, if you'll pardon the pseudo-redundant.

There wasn't a single squadmate in ME2 that I thought completely lacked depth, though, and the majority of them impressed me more than what I found in the first game.

[Mr.House]

Mesina2 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

It's one guy that'll be bisexual, that's the only change so far. I don't want all bi crew.

Fix'ed!

Well I don't want to have EVERYONE as well.
It kills immersion.

ME2 crappy story and the death of Shepard broke immersion, people being bi does not break immersion, it didn't in DA2.

[Mr.House]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Buildup and explanation couldn't happen over the course of the events of ME3? You act like it's going to be like this:

ME3 Title Card. Scene: Earth: Opening dialogue:

Kaidan: Hi Shepard. I'm totally into dudes. Do you love me?

Shepard: Option 1: Yes Kaidan, I totally wuv you, come here you!
Shepard: Option 2: I don't love you, Kaidan, but I am totally into dudes too, OMG.
Shepard: Option 3: I hate you Kaidan! But I am totally into dudes.

THAT is bad writing. I'm thinking BioWare can do better.

Ahem.

That made Anders romance worth doing.

[Centauri2002]

There seems to be two main camps of argument here. One is for s/s romances and want inclusiveness without taking away from anyone else's game. The other is against s/s romances and wants to take away from other people even though it doesn't effect them. Hmm.

Let me pose this question then... if the new s/s romances are only with new characters, will people against s/s romances have a problem with this? To clarify, the established characters will be left as they are.

Modifié par centauri2002, 16 mai 2011 - 08:04 .

[ipgd]

Clonedzero wrote...

well why can't i want to experience an actually well done gay romance with one of my shepards?

i currently dont have a gay shepard but if they make a good gay romance in ME3 then i might make one. i personally would want it to make sense in context with the entire series. having a long term established character such as garrus only be bi in the third installment would be dumb. it wouldnt feel natural at all.

i want them to be well-written and believable. having them only available in the third game is not belieable.its silly and arbitrary.

i would think the people who care alot about s/s romances would actually want well crafted and natural feeling romances as well, but i guess they just wanna stamp "bi" on everyone and get generic copy/pasted romances with the pronouns replaced.

There's no such thing as a bad story, just bad execution. You can make pretty much any plot development make sense and be enjoyable with enough care. If you want to assume the ME writers are all awful and will flub it, that's your prerogative, but that doesn't have much to do with bisexual romances specifically.

[Blacklash93]

So it looks like it'll probably be new characters from Hudson's latest tweet.

I really, really hope they're human. I like my romances free of mandibles, scales, and exo-suits.

[Clonedzero]

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You keep saying bad writing.

I don't think you really know what that is.

you're saying a long established friend of a character suddenly declaring love for another character with no build up or explaination or anything wouldnt be dumb?

if in season 5 of Lost if Jack turned to Saywer and said "i've always loved you, lets be together" wouldnt you react like "wait what? where'd that come from?"

Buildup and explanation couldn't happen over the course of the events of ME3? You act like it's going to be like this:

ME3 Title Card. Scene: Earth: Opening dialogue:

Kaidan: Hi Shepard. I'm totally into dudes. Do you love me?

Shepard: Option 1: Yes Kaidan, I totally wuv you, come here you!
Shepard: Option 2: I don't love you, Kaidan, but I am totally into dudes too, OMG.
Shepard: Option 3: I hate you Kaidan! But I am totally into dudes.

THAT is bad writing. I'm thinking BioWare can do better.

thank you for finally getting it....

i was saying "i dont want people to suddenly announce they're bi and jump into a relationship with them with no growth ect."
then everyone jumps down my throat saying "well its happened in real life, blah blah, bi people can be closeted for years!"

seriously, reread my posts. i was saying that.
you guys are absolutely crazily hostile to anyone with a slightly differing opinion than your own. its REALLY off-putting.

[Ryzaki]

Oi. If anything killed immersion if was Shepard being TIM's little b*tch. 

That and not punching Miranda in the face when she said thre was only one escape pod.   Should've left those Cerberus tools to die. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 08:05 .

[CajNatalie]

centauri2002 wrote...
Why does Kelly not count? 

And how about Liara? Or Samara? Or Morinth? They're asari, yes, but are you under the impression a straight woman would be attracted to them? I would find that rather unlikely.

Unlikely indeed, but you never know what effects asari pheremones have on someone in person... turians and salarians find them attractive even though they don't look like they should be attractive to them (apparently there's some weird effect on perception on how the asari appear also... listen to the Eternity party on Illium... it's pretty funny).

As for Kelly, I was trying to tailor an argument that worked for both male and female Shepards.
Besides, I find it kind'a weird how easily you can make femshep slip out 'I might do more than just catch you, Kelly'... which could very easily be such a disastrous line... thinking in place of femShep here, it's surprising just how well it goes with Kelly's response.
Really, try saying something like that to someone of the same sex you've only just met... do you honestly expect it to have any good probability of going well?

Anyway, it might have been seen as coincidental to the viewpoint of a gamer if both male and female Shepards could show interest in a crewmate of the same sex. I have no protests against allowing Shepards to express same-sex interests... I just find it slightly lacking in believability if the opportunities for pursuing homosexuality were to have been high and/or obvious since day one for both male and female.
If you're gay you need to be careful when pursuing your options, because almost everyone around you is straight, and a number of them can be somewhat harsh in response to being hit on by someone of the same sex.
It's not like Shep has the luxury of being able to go to a gay bar or something, particularly if love interests are limited to squadmates and not civilians.

So I still think it makes sense for no gay revelations in the first two games... and still wish to exclude Kelly from this because it just doesn't seem believable how it's handled in ME2.

Ryzaki wrote...

True it kind of does. My issue is
that Shepard "conviently" bumps into uncommom people all the damn time.
A Bi LI in every game ouldn't have been stretching believablility.

It wouldn't have been. But it's perfectly understandable as it is without them.

Ryzaki wrote...

My
issue is you can't hit on them to begin with. That doesn't make Kaidan
anymore straight than it does Shepard to me. Now if Kaidan had rejected
male Shepard then I'd see him as straight (and Shepard would be gay but
a lonely gay). As it is now they're in some unconfirmed limbo. Unless
Shepard can magically read minds now and knew Kaidan wasn't gay/bisexual
and it was a waste of time to hit on him. 

Only reason I see my
Shepard as gay is because he's my character that I crafted. It has
nothing to do with options. I would like to be able to express his homosexuality. But it's not necessary for him to be homosexual. I don't understand why anyone thinks it is.

You have some good points and I won't attempt to counter them.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 16 mai 2011 - 08:06 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Blacklash93 wrote...

So it looks like it'll probably be new characters from Hudson's latest tweet.

I really, really hope they're human. I like my romances free of mandibles, scales, and exo-suits.

I can understand this sentiment,  I'm happy with head tentacles myself but I can see how some people would prefer human type characters.

[CommanderShawn]

yeah no new love interest in ME3 http://wccftech.com/...love-interests/

[jlb524]

So, are people worried the 'crappily written' bisexual romances will render the whole story 'crappy', including the perfectly never crappy non-pandering hetero only romances?

[ipgd]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Buildup and explanation couldn't happen over the course of the events of ME3? You act like it's going to be like this:

ME3 Title Card. Scene: Earth: Opening dialogue:

Kaidan: Hi Shepard. I'm totally into dudes. Do you love me?

Shepard: Option 1: Yes Kaidan, I totally wuv you, come here you!
Shepard: Option 2: I don't love you, Kaidan, but I am totally into dudes too, OMG.
Shepard: Option 3: I hate you Kaidan! But I am totally into dudes.

THAT is bad writing. I'm thinking BioWare can do better.

Ahem.

I don't know why people keep posting this as an example of "bad writing". The sandwich line is the "whoa dude turn down the sap" deflection option. It works perfectly well in context :|

[CommanderShawn]

high chance garrus gay

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...


Well, you know you can always avoid that 'bad writing', by, you know, not sleeping with dudes in the game. But saying that no one should have that option because you think it's bad writing (without actually having seen the writing, I might add) is as silly as me saying that no one should have alien LI options because I personally think they're beyond ridiculous . I can still have my game the way I want it, with Devon Shepard, Martín Shepard and Ethan Shepard saying "how about no" to Tali when she gets all flustery, and Simone Shepard, Leah Shepard and Ashley Shepard never going there with Garrus, because, ew.

well why can't i want to experience an actually well done gay romance with one of my shepards?

Hopefully you can, that's what everyone wants, I think. I think there are a number of ways that can happen though. We can't judge the writing until we see it.

i currently dont have a gay shepard but if they make a good gay romance in ME3 then i might make one. i personally would want it to make sense in context with the entire series. having a long term established character such as garrus only be bi in the third installment would be dumb. it wouldnt feel natural at all.

I wouldn't do backflips for Bisexual Garrus either, I would simply continue to avoid romancing him.

i want them to be well-written and believable. having them only available in the third game is not belieable.its silly and arbitrary.

What is arbitrary is your assumption that bisexual options for every existing character are equally impossible to implement in a way that is consistent with "good writing". We don't know everything there is to know about these people, I hope they have something new to bring to the table in the next game. If it's just "Hey Garrus, that thing with Sidonis, good times" I'm gonna be "disappoint".

i would think the people who care alot about s/s romances would actually want well crafted and natural feeling romances as well, but i guess they just wanna stamp "bi" on everyone and get generic copy/pasted romances with the pronouns replaced.

Not me. Don't paint us all with the same brush. Some people think an all-bi squad is a good idea, I don't. From a metagame standpoint I see the appeal, but I wouldn't role-play it that way if that's the route BioWare goes. I highly doubt they will anyway.

[Jademoon121]

CommanderShawn wrote...

yeah no new love interest in ME3 http://wccftech.com/...love-interests/

Actually, LIs where confirmed in a tweet by one of the guys on the team.

[PMC65]

SennenScale wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

I also know a lot of gay people who don't like "breeders", gay men who hate all women, gay women who hate all men, etc .... But I don't think this is what the thread is about.

Can't we just listen to each other's concern without calling each other names? "Leave Britney alone!"

This is what I posted originally, for the record. Never intended name calling.

SennenScale wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Interesting
thing that I've noticed: by and large, the people who keep saying that
sexuality is a vital part of one's personality are straight. Far more of
those who disagree are not. Why might this be?

A lot of
straight people think gay people are fundamentally different from
them...or rather, that BEING GAY makes somebody fundamentally different
from a straight person.
A lot of straight people also think bisexual = sleep with everything.
Me, 
I never saw being attracted to the opposite sex as being a defining
aspect of my personality. It'a a drop in the bucket of who I am. Being a
pale, freckled ginger affects me more than being straight!  ../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png

That's ok ... I see a lot of plate throwing in this thread ... I'm surprised it isn't locked.

I bet CHud is regretting the tweet ....