6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Subject Alpha]

 As long as Joker's a bi LI, there will be world peace, an end to global starvation and suffering...
Okay, maybe nothing that dramatic, but certainly a lot of very happy fans. 

[Cootie]

SennenScale wrote...

Cootie wrote...
...

... still building consensus.

We anticipate the exchange of data.

...


Okay. I can roll with this.

EDI? Bring down the firewalls.

[jlb524]

brain_damage wrote...

Wait, I don't get it. Are there going to be new characters who will be romanceable by Sheps of the same sex or we can have a gay romance with existing companions who were romanceable only by the opposite gender in previous games(such as a samesex romance with Ashley or Garrus)?

No one really knows for sure...I'm guessing with new characters, perhaps with old characters that weren't LIs before and now are.

[Clonedzero]

SennenScale wrote...

LEGIONMANCE!

...what? Why is everyone staring at me like that?

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Clonedzero, 16 mai 2011 - 10:37 .

[SilentNukee]

Sigh...I really hope it's not new characters... Just throwing us new LIs to make us "happy", which really doesn't because we've grown to love our squadmates for over 2 games.

[bluuberg]

Think for a second "Bro" peeps. Do you think so little of Garrus that if he were revealed to be bi that he would suddenly be coming onto you every conversation? We all know Garrus isn't like that and him becoming bi wouldn't change that.
It would be like the femshep romance and have to be something you pursue over time and initiate yourself. So as in all cases with bi options and regular LI options...simply don't click on the obvious romance initiation dialogue....jeez.

*sits and waits for the 'Bro' defence*

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

brain_damage wrote...

Wait, I don't get it. Are there going to be new characters who will be romanceable by Sheps of the same sex or we can have a gay romance with existing companions who were romanceable only by the opposite gender in previous games(such as a samesex romance with Ashley or Garrus)?

No one really knows for sure...I'm guessing with new characters, perhaps with old characters that weren't LIs before and now are.

JOKER! :wub:<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3:wub::wub::wub:

[gidoru]

Captain Kibosh wrote...

I was originally going to respond to another thread entitled Fight for a Compromise, but it was locked by the moderators (who directed us here). Thought I would post it here having put a lot of thought into this. It's basically my argument against any game players who object to the increased options for same-sex relationships.

For some game players who are not in favor of same-sex relationships (often cultural bias under the guise of narrative credibility), their rationale to limit depictions of same-sex relationships basically boils down to a continuity argument: making characters "suddenly" gay or bisexual creates a problem of retroactive continuity--the controversial writer's ploy (and bane of some sci-fi aficionados) of re-creating the history of a given narrative.

I can agree up to a very limited point--to build into the narrative that every character is bisexual might push credibility, BUT really what some perceive as an "upending" of continuity comes down to a bias of (heterosexual) perception. Incidentally, I'm a heterosexual making this argument.

Why would some be incredulous about, say, Garrus "suddenly" being being gay (and Shepard having the dialogue trees to allow such an option) but not about when a player has the option to sleep with MULTIPLE opposite sex partners on a very very small ship, e.g., dumping Jack for Miranda would seem like a very very bad idea, but the ME2 narrative as it stands allows us to get away with it. Talk about a break in continuity in terms of Jack and her trust issues! Why wouldn't she treat Shepard into a major biotic smackdown given her trust issues? Is this adolescent male heterosexual fantasy of bedding every chick in sight really any more credible compared to Garrus possibly being in the closet or only finally opening up to Shepard in the third act? To my mind, not really!

And there's another problem with the continuity argument likely informed by (cultural/religious?) bias that wants to dictate what is "canon." Whose to say that futuristic society hasn't become more progressive in terms of the way it views sexuality?

As a teacher, I'm amazed and impressed by the way some of my students can be openly gay compared to when I was a student, where I think students in the closet were in mortal fear of social persecution. In fact, one of my own friends didn't come out till he was in college, and I had no clue back then!

If that could happen in one generation, then I wouldn't be surprised one hundred years from now that we don't have the same hang-ups on what constitutes social norms and "credible" behavior.

I don't know if there are any Dr. Who or Torchwood fans out there, but the character Jack Harkness embodies that omni-sexual outlook that seems entirely plausible to me for a man from the distant future.

So who am I to deny a space commando from the future his choice in partners? Do ask, do tell!

Im sorry but your argument fails utterly.
Making an argument that suggests that homosexual relationships are not in line with the continuity is not a matter of bias in the slightest. The continuity of the game is a matter of fact, it is what is exists within the games as is avaliable to anyone that plays them.

The two Mass Effect games that have been released thus far have not allowed male homosexual relationships, this is a fact. The male characters as they have been presented have not displayed homosexual inclinations in any regard. How is it a matter of bias to suggest that this thing (male homosexual relationships) is not present in games 1 and 2, but will be present in 3? That seems to be a clear statement of fact, not a statement of opinion nor of perception. This seems to me to be a clear matter of continuity as adding homosexual relationships to the 3rd game would amount to CHANGING the dynamics that have existed for the first two games. CHANGING things present in an earlier iteration of the universe to something completely different IS A MATTER OF CONTINUITY not of bias.

Why would some be incredulous about, say, Garrus "suddenly" being being gay (and Shepard having the dialogue trees to allow such an option) but not about when a player has the option to sleep with MULTIPLE opposite sex partners on a very very small ship, e.g., dumping Jack for Miranda would seem like a very very bad idea, but the ME2 narrative as it stands allows us to get away with it. Talk about a break in continuity in terms of Jack and her trust issues! Why wouldn't she treat Shepard into a major biotic smackdown given her trust issues?

Here you are simply confusing continuity with plausibility. They are not the same thing. It is perfectly within the continuity of the game that Jack would not react violently to Shepard dumbing her for Miranda. This is the case because the games portrayal of the events in the game is consistent with this outcome. You can do exactly the sitution you described without the outcome one might expect. Regardless of whether this makes sense to you, this is the games portrayal and thus it is within continuity. On the other hand, it is plausible that Jack might not react violently, well perhaps not. But the issue isnt plausibility, the issue is whether the series of events from the first two games is consistent with the events in the third game.

again here

And there's another problem with the continuity argument likely informed by (cultural/religious?) bias that wants to dictate what is "canon." Whose to say that futuristic society hasn't become more progressive in terms of the way it views sexuality?

This is not a problem with the continuity argument. Were it the case that an individual could arbitrarily create their own "canon" then indeed it could be influenced by bias. But the "canon" is established by bioware, they created it, we individually cannont change it, if we cannot change it then our bias cannont influence it.

Whose to say that futuristic society hasn't become more progressive in terms of the way it views sexuality? Bioware is, this isnt a test as to what is conceivable. Is it conceivable that a futuristic society could be progressive? Sure. But this isnt any random futuristic society, this is the Mass Effect universe. A universe created by Bioware, thus they dictate what is the case and what is not the case. If in their universe the society is not more progressive, then guess what? you can conceive of the universe being anything you want, but the official canon states that it is not.
And so you might now ask, "well if bioware can create it to be whatever they want, why can they simply not making it such that the society is suddently progressive?"  And this brings us back to the continuity argument. The universe presented in the first two games did not depict things to be that way. Changing this for the third game, alters the universe that has already been established creating an inconsistency.

[Lotto]

SennenScale wrote...

brain_damage wrote...

Wait, I don't get it. Are there going to be new characters who will be romanceable by Sheps of the same sex or we can have a gay romance with existing companions who were romanceable only by the opposite gender in previous games(such as a samesex romance with Ashley or Garrus)?

Casey Hudson

Some game sites saying
"previously straight chars now available for both m&f chars" not
necessarily true. Will have some new LI's in #ME3


^It doesn't give a straight answer, but it's something.

Seems more like he wants to avoid pissing people off. 

[joslittle]

As long as they do a better job than they did with Anders, I don't care. If they can do this without making already present aspects of the game suffer for it, I don't mind at all. The only thing I care about is an amazing adventure in Mass Effect 3, that brings resolution to the relationships I have built with the characters as they have been. If the entire crew male and female all start hitting on me while the Earth is being harvested by the reapers, I'm gonna scream. Actually I'll just join the reapers, I think they're asexual, it should simplify things.

[cnielsen8]

If there are new characters coming in who are gay/bi/whatever, then I can probably deal with it. However, if all of the old characters all of a sudden become bisexual then I know I'll be saving $60 this year. I actually love the ME series because of the story and the characters, and if Bioware is gonna say "screw it, make everyone bi so we can sell a few thousand more copies", then I'm not sticking around to see what was once my favorite series be destroyed for the sake of sales numbers and a small minority of the fan base.

Modifié par cnielsen8, 16 mai 2011 - 10:42 .

[SilentNukee]

s/s romances with past squadmates.
FemShep Talimancer.

[JigPig]

Absolutely terrific. It was awkward and hard to play through in DA2, now we get Bi-Effect 3. Pure fan pandering always wins out apparently.

Modifié par JigPig, 16 mai 2011 - 10:44 .

[Clonedzero]

blue.o7 wrote...

Think for a second "Bro" peeps. Do you think so little of Garrus that if he were revealed to be bi that he would suddenly be coming onto you every conversation? We all know Garrus isn't like that and him becoming bi wouldn't change that.
It would be like the femshep romance and have to be something you pursue over time and initiate yourself. So as in all cases with bi options and regular LI options...simply don't click on the obvious romance initiation dialogue....jeez.

*sits and waits for the 'Bro' defence*

i just think it makes no sense thats all. im not going to freak out if he turns out to be bi, i just REALLY hope its not at the sacrifice of his friendship. thats my main concern.

though i think they shouldnt waste resources on him as a s/s romance since it makes no sense and they should focus on more logical s/s romances.

but if garrus still has a great friendship only path, and a s/s romance path then i'd be fine with that.

the main concern is that if you dont romance him that you wont get much dialogue, as in ME2.

[jlb524]

SilentNukee wrote...

Sigh...I really hope it's not new characters... Just throwing us new LIs to make us "happy", which really doesn't because we've grown to love our squadmates for over 2 games.

Well, if it's old characters newly romanceable (like Joker, Kasumi, etc.) you might have attachement to them...but I see your point.  It appears to me that the most popular LIs are the ME1 crew (Liara/Ash/Kaidan/Tali/Garrus....poor Wrex gets none) while the newer ones don't seem to be as popular.

I still think it's better than nothing, and who knows?  One of the new squaddies might be really awesome.

[HunterX6]

this is just "GREAT" as long as i am not hinted gay lines at me (like dragon age 2, which i return 4 days later) thankfully it had a heart or w/e to let you know you were going to pursue a relationship with them. I just think its awkward, i dont mind gay people as long as they stick to them self but not when they try to hint at me in real life or in a game that they like me or w/e. its as disturbing as a person farting on your face if you get my meaning, oh and please dont hate on me now, i am keeping it civilized and just stating my opinion.l

Modifié par HunterX6, 16 mai 2011 - 10:48 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lotto wrote...
Seems more like he wants to avoid pissing people off. 

Considering what comes out of the subject, I don't blame him.

[plumededragop]

Ryzaki wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

brain_damage wrote...

Wait, I don't get it. Are there going to be new characters who will be romanceable by Sheps of the same sex or we can have a gay romance with existing companions who were romanceable only by the opposite gender in previous games(such as a samesex romance with Ashley or Garrus)?

No one really knows for sure...I'm guessing with new characters, perhaps with old characters that weren't LIs before and now are.

JOKER! :wub:<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3:wub::wub::wub:

Old characters that becomes LI? Well if it does happen, then yes, Joker is most likely as he's coming back too. I'll be a happy woman if Joker become a LI. ^^ I'm all for it,  one of my FemShep needs it!! Ah, dear Joker!!<3
If he does become a LI, then he's indeed added to the list of potential bi LI... But if there's only one male bi romance, I'm still siding with Kaidan.
Ah well, we can only speculate. We'll know later on, I guess... (I hope )

[Jade Elf]

More (relationship) choices are good!

That is all.

[Feanor_II]

As long as....:
1) ...Old characters such as Ashley, Kaidan, etc.... don't starting showing homosexual tendencies (they didn't do that in ME1 and ME2 so it doesn't makes sense now)...
2) ...only for being to nice to character he/she doesn't starts showing active interest on you (it doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality but that happened on ME2 and DA2 and I didn't like it, I think that the evolution of the relation with the LI was better and more naturally managed in ME1 and DA:O)
I don't care

[Zulmoka531]

SilentNukee wrote...

Sigh...I really hope it's not new characters... Just throwing us new LIs to make us "happy", which really doesn't because we've grown to love our squadmates for over 2 games.

In a sense, making everyone bi isn't any different than adding new LIs to make you happy.

[SilentNukee]

jlb524 wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

Sigh...I really hope it's not new characters... Just throwing us new LIs to make us "happy", which really doesn't because we've grown to love our squadmates for over 2 games.

Well, if it's old characters newly romanceable (like Joker, Kasumi, etc.) you might have attachement to them...but I see your point.  It appears to me that the most popular LIs are the ME1 crew (Liara/Ash/Kaidan/Tali/Garrus....poor Wrex gets none) while the newer ones don't seem to be as popular.

I still think it's better than nothing, and who knows?  One of the new squaddies might be really awesome.

Yep, I predict those squaddies as well. (Liara/Kaidan or Ashley/Garrus/Tali) So that leaves male Shep with 1-2 open s/s romance. (2 assuming they haven't killed Kaidan) and 2-3 for FemShep. (Assuming they didn't kill Ashley and you think of Liara as s/s.)
Adding new squaddies as s/s LI would be great too, but I'll be very dissapointed if it's just that option.

[Clonedzero]

also, whats the consensus, do female human and an asari count as a s/s relationship?
asari all seem like girls to me.

[Mudzr]

*Edit* I wrote this as a reply to alot of backlash against the recent confirmation, and as a reply to what I saw on the Kotaku article, but it seems that it has died done quite a bit so apologies if this post seems out of place.

All this opposition worries me.
The fact is, CHARACTERS CHANGE. It is going to happen. Otherwise we would get board of them. Garrus and Tali both changed from ME1 to ME2. So did Ashley. People were upset at the time, now it seems like they never were with the way fans are acting that bioware never has any inconstinacies or changes game to game.

The fact is, times are changing, yes you may not believe that hypothetically four bisexuals could be travelling with you at one time or that people that previously seemed to be straight (apparently the aliens too *eyes roll* altough as I said before, they're not hetrosexual, they are most probably pansexual), but in a world where biotics have become the new magic, and interspecies relationship seems common, would it be too hard to stretch your imagination, suspend your disbelief, etc. so that the universe we all know and love can be just a little bit more inclusive?
Tali and Garrus were able to show interest in the second game where they had not in the first, and with them being the most popular romances so far, i'm going to guess that Bioware pulled it off. I'm willing to think that Bioware can do it again, have a little faith.

(*Edit* Ok this part of the post is a bit more serious and negative in tone than the first part, so feel free to skip it if you want.)

And seriously, I don't want to say it, but the naivity and homophobia of some of these posters is unbelievable, i'm starting to believe that some of these posters would openly refuse that be friends with someone who turned out to be ******/ bisexual, yes even if they are alien and apparently expeicially if they are male. And then we have all the specualtion on who could be bi or not, which seems to be based on nothing but stereotypes (for example Kaiden often gets mentioned for his stereotypical "feminine" traits).
I guess I would be niaive to expect something like this to just happen however without opposition. hmmm...

Bottom line, Bioware wrote the characters, they know them better than we do. And yes they change their made, actually writers always do, and we often see it is character development. I see no one minded when Garrus suddenly had a sister he had never mentioned before. So really, the addition of s/s romances does not have to effect anyone but those who are interested in it, so please try and think what others are gaining before complaining about what you are "losing", because reality is, before the game is released, no one knows how this will turn out.

So best just have faith.

Modifié par Mudzr, 16 mai 2011 - 11:02 .

[Ryzaki]

I actually want two male bi LIs.

I mean hetero people have 5 choices.

There could at least be 5 s/s choices.