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-Wider options for Romance in ME3, including Same-sex- *Update added*


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#101
Siansonea

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KawaiiKatie wrote...

So... this is the new place to discuss same-sex in Mass Effect?

I'm sad that, Fight for the Love is closed. I guess that's fair, since they had several pages of "YAY, VICTORY!"

......though, after a year of waiting and silence from devs and flames from anti-gay, you could've given us more than a day to celebrate....


I'm rather bummed too Katie, but that thread served its purpose and ran its course. It's only appropriate that the conversation be widened now, and include those who opposed the initiative in active discussion. We know that the developers listen to our feedback, and I'm sure much can be learned that would be helpful to the implementation process.

Plus, the FFTL group is still open for business. :wub:

#102
MGIII

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All romances in ME feel artificial anyways, seeing as how the only character interaction you get with potential love interests is in a static area through dialogue. The only way relationships can be handled better is if the writing is better.

#103
KawaiiKatie

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TaHol100 wrote...

I'm going to have interesting times when importing my Sheps. Thing is, most of them are modded in ME1 to have romance with Kaidan, and all my Sheps are males. Worked well when importing to ME2, Kaidan hugs and his picture is in cabin. Now, if Kaidan would have come out of the closet in ME3, maybe my imports are not totally lost. Otherwise...I'm anxious to see! All this importing-thing is not so important to me and I don't mind doing new Sheps from scratch if needed.


That's.... going to be interesting, methinks. If Kaidan is, indeed, bisexual in ME3.

I think if you're already in a relationship with Kaidan, he'll go about it as if you were female, because you'll have flag markers only available to female Shepards. You may get some overlap between "female" content and "male" content, depending on when the game checks for "relationship" flags versus "gender" flags... But I really don't know! Good luck, my friend!

My gay Shepard has been single since ME1. I'm so glad that he doesn't have to cheat to get some lovin'! :lol:

#104
Zatwu

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Now Sheploo can also be "The Priiize." :police:

Modifié par Zatwu, 16 mai 2011 - 05:49 .


#105
Battlepope190

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As long as I can finally have Ash as Femshep (who was supposed to be Bi originally anyway) I'm happy.

#106
Mr.House

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TaHol100 wrote...


But it would feel little funny if Kaidan of Ashley are suddenly bisexual when they were not in ME1. I don't mind if they are, I would romance Kaidan all the way, but still. New members on the other hand, we don't know anything about them yet, and they can be written to be whatever.

We don't know if they where not, a maleshep was never able to flirt with Kai Kai and same with Femshep with Ash. If Kaidan said I like you Shepard but not in that way to a maleshep, then yes I would be against it, but alas that is not the case.

#107
AdmiralCheez

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jlb524 wrote...

I'm still not sure why this is such a big deal to people...considering we're talking about video game characters and I think it would be nicer if people had the choice to romance whoever they wanted amongst the LIs with whichever Shepard they wanted, instead of having to romance 'that one bisexual' with their gay/bi Shepard.

Well, I hated Liara in ME1, but she was the only option, and after a while I grew to like her.  I think it's just better for the game overall if they restrict it to one m/m option.  I would LOVE for everyone to be romance material for either gender, but the game would get so much flak for it, and I feel like if they focused too much on romance, the friendship paths would be neglected (again).

Most of my favorite characters aren't romance options, and I think it makes them better for it.  Really, of my top six, Garrus is the only LI.  The rest (Wrex, Legion, Mordin, Samara, Kasumi) either never express interest or turn you down outright.  All six of these characters have great dialogue and story arcs attached to them regardless of romance (even though Garrus had calabratiotis).  They weren't thrown in there to give Shepard something to bone (again, Garrus is arguable, but I think his "bro-ness" is what most people find appealing).

Therefore, I'd rather keep new romances to a minimum--the characters that aren't romanceable are usually the most fun to talk to, in my opinion, and everybody can enjoy the same content without anything feeling forced.  Granted, the romances are great, but when I run into an LI, I can usually tell right away that they were put into the game for the sake of being an LI (ISN'T THAT RIGHT, THANE AND LIARA?).

In my opinion, the best thing that Bioware could ever do for their new characters would be to write them as companions/friends first, and only consider making them LIs AFTER they've been fleshed out.

Now, expecting everyone in real life to bend to your animal magnetism and want to jump in bed with you regardless is absurd, of course.

I'm still trying to bring up the menu screen so I can use my hard-earned squad points.  Just finished an art porject today, so I MUST HAVE leveled up...

WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T DO THAT IN REAL LIFE?!

#108
onelifecrisis

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Ryzaki wrote...

I guess I can see where people who say it will break the game are coming from. I just can't really sympathize because the Tali/Garrus mances already broke the game for me.

As did thermal clips and Shepard dying and being brought to life.

Working with Cerberus also broke the game for me but I got over it.

Plenty of things in ME2 made no sense to me but I went along with it because it was a game. An these things weren't easily ignorable like romance options.


Wait, so your argument is that because Bioware ****ed up before we shouldn't care if they **** up again? :blink:

#109
Siansonea

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TaHol100 wrote...

I'm going to have interesting times when importing my Sheps. Thing is, most of them are modded in ME1 to have romance with Kaidan, and all my Sheps are males. Worked well when importing to ME2, Kaidan hugs and his picture is in cabin. Now, if Kaidan would have come out of the closet in ME3, maybe my imports are not totally lost. Otherwise...I'm anxious to see! All this importing-thing is not so important to me and I don't mind doing new Sheps from scratch if needed.

But it would feel little funny if Kaidan of Ashley are suddenly bisexual when they were not in ME1. I don't mind if they are, I would romance Kaidan all the way, but still. New members on the other hand, we don't know anything about them yet, and they can be written to be whatever.


The thing about those two characters in particular is that we don't know that they're not bisexual in ME1, because Shepard doesn't flirt with them. Neither of those characters initiates the romance with opposite-sex Shepard either, so if there's no expression of same-sex interest, it's because Shepard didn't make the first move. That doesn't mean that either of them would or wouldn't have been receptive if Shepard had expressed interest, it remains an open question.

#110
Nexus Arcade

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Mr.House wrote...

TaHol100 wrote...


But it would feel little funny if Kaidan of Ashley are suddenly bisexual when they were not in ME1. I don't mind if they are, I would romance Kaidan all the way, but still. New members on the other hand, we don't know anything about them yet, and they can be written to be whatever.

We don't know if they where not, a maleshep was never able to flirt with Kai Kai and same with Femshep with Ash. If Kaidan said I like you Shepard but not in that way to a maleshep, then yes I would be against it, but alas that is not the case.

Maybe their time on eden prime helped them..........

#111
Lu the Prodigy

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Ryzaki wrote...

Lu the Prodigy wrote...

Ah yes... ME1.  You are correct.  I suppose I have been playing far too much of the sequel and that the original is no longer as fresh in my memory... I should really remedy that with another playthrough.  But yes, it was much better in ME2, and if you read Casey Hudson's tweets, it is very reassuring that they know what the community was not pleased with, and that the romanced will not be implimented the same was as in DA or ME1


???

DAO's implication was fine. You could end it easily, you could start it easily and most of the options were obvious.

Only ninja'mance was Leliana and Alistair and since Alistair was a m/f romance only there wasn't much complaining and Leliana was a massive bug.


My apologies, my short hand has caused some confusion here for you.  I use DA as short hand for the series, and my main complaint was with Anders.  And what I was refering to was the fact that there was any ninja'mancing going on.  No one wants to be ninja'manced, and it is very unlikely to happen in ME3.

#112
Mr.House

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ark fear monger wrote...
Maybe their time on eden prime helped them..........

Where's that
Kaidan: Nice ass Shepard! pic when I need it...

#113
Ryzaki

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Lu the Prodigy wrote...
My apologies, my short hand has caused some confusion here for you.  I use DA as short hand for the series, and my main complaint was with Anders.  And what I was refering to was the fact that there was any ninja'mancing going on.  No one wants to be ninja'manced, and it is very unlikely to happen in ME3.


Anders couldn't ninja-mance Hawke.

He could ninja flirt with Hawke (like Isabela but for some reason she gets a free pass :pinched: ) but Hawke has to choose diplomatic options to get there in the first place, and then you have a heartbreak option (only one for some strange reason) that ends the romance completely.

#114
Zatwu

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In all seriousness, I don't mind S/S relationships but I think all relationships should be player initiated only. The progressively exaggerated number of people lining up for me to say "No" in ME2 stopped being funny a while ago.

Modifié par Zatwu, 16 mai 2011 - 05:54 .


#115
Siansonea

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AdmiralCheez wrote...
*snip*
Granted, the romances are great, but when I run into an LI, I can usually tell right away that they were put into the game for the sake of being an LI (ISN'T THAT RIGHT, THANE AND LIARA?).


I completely lol'd on this one! :lol:

#116
Alpha-Centuri

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In the other thread

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


Best Case Scenario:

Bioware manages to do this in a way that is so seamless that people uninterested in romancing a character will have no idea that such a romance is even available, while people who are interested will easily be able to initiate a deep, flirty romance.

Worst case scenario:
This turns into an episode of Tenchi Muyo, with eight people hitting on my Shep who just wants them all to stop bothering her!


This is all. Also, in the future, please, please please, PLEASE Bioware, don't make romances, S/S or hetero, easy to fall into. Its bad enough as it already is. If you have to have a tipscreen flash and say *You are starting a romance* to keep from ninjaromances, so be it.

#117
Ryzaki

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onelifecrisis wrote...
Wait, so your argument is that because Bioware ****ed up before we shouldn't care if they **** up again? :blink:


My arguement is that how Bioware f*cked up is different to invidiual people. Some don't see the Tali/Garrus mances as a screw up. I do. I wouldn't see Kaidan/Miranda/Ashley being bi in the third game as a f*** up. Some would.

To me humans being attracted to a Shepard of the same gender makes far more sense than an alien (other than an Asari) wanting to bone a human Shepard.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 05:56 .


#118
SennenScale

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I would really like to see Tali open up to a Femshep if at all possible. Pretty please?

Kaidan seems like a good bet for manshep.

I eagerly await ME3.

#119
M-Sinistrari

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As far as the core matter of s/s romances in game, I don't give a fig, much less two. On the topic of how it'll be handled for existing LIs potentially changing orientation, I admit to having some concerns.

I know the DA team's different than the ME team, but as I'm one of those who truely can't see Garrus or Tali as a romance option according to their ME1 dialogs (and I've done a crapload of playthroughs and still don't see it) and none of my Sheps have romanced them because I can't see it, it would throw off some of my playthroughs if it was a sudden "I'm into you!" like ME2.

As someone posted in the other thread, having a LI mention having dated the same sex in passing as a romance flag, it would throw off some of my playthroughs while delighting others.

In the assorted threads that've cropped up on this topic, the comment of 'Just don't pursue it if you don't want to' has been flung up, but as simplistic as it seems, we've all either been through a ninja romance or seen it happen to others to know that it's really not that easy. Going by the dialog wheel as it exists now isn't so much of a guarantee that you've chosen the option for what one wants to pursue.

With how the ME2 romances were handled, talking to crew was like walking through a minefield, my asexual Sheps are limited to only talking to those of their gender, my Sheps in faithful relationships are limited in the same way, and my up for the new romances Sheps have a field day with who they want to romance but the others of opposite gender's a no go. In the end I went the route of not talking to anyone unless it was for a loyalty mission rather than slip somewhere and end up with a triangle that I never wanted.

My first playthrough of ME2 had the most reload from last saves when dialog went romance where I didn't want it. As much as I love having my Shep talk to everyone, that pretty much was quashed because everything pretty much pushed for romance and just a friendship be damned.

I forgot who, but someone once proposed a toggle option so the default was X amount of each romance type covered to switch over to same sex or asexual that could be activated at any point. From what I remember the option was shouted down under the reasoning that it allowed people to avoid things. Something like this toggle would be fine for me since I'd finally not be limited in the various interactions depending on the Shep, and would be able to customize accordingly so my asexual Sheps could be the chatty folks they've been restricted on, my alternate lifestyle Sheps could have the relationships they've wanted and my straight Sheps won't be walking on eggshells if they risk talking.

#120
Siansonea

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Zatwu wrote...

In all seriousness, I don't mind S/S relationships but I think all relationships should be player initiated only. The progressively exaggerated number of people lining up for me to say "No" in ME2 stopped being funny a while ago.


I actually never encountered any ninjamances in either ME1 or ME2. Well, Liara has to be told NO several times before she really seems to get the hint, but other than that, it seemed pretty clear when I was going down the road towards the lovin' with a given character. Well, FemShep/Jacob had some WTF moments, but nothing a savegame reload couldn't fix.

#121
ObserverStatus

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Zatwu wrote...

In all seriousness, I don't mind S/S relationships but I think all relationships should be player initiated only. The progressively exaggerated number of people lining up for me to say "No" in ME2 stopped being funny a while ago.

it would also be an interesting change of pace if shepard got rejected once in a while (way to go Samara)

#122
corporal doody

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Lu the Prodigy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Lu the Prodigy wrote...

Ah yes... ME1.  You are correct.  I suppose I have been playing far too much of the sequel and that the original is no longer as fresh in my memory... I should really remedy that with another playthrough.  But yes, it was much better in ME2, and if you read Casey Hudson's tweets, it is very reassuring that they know what the community was not pleased with, and that the romanced will not be implimented the same was as in DA or ME1


???

DAO's implication was fine. You could end it easily, you could start it easily and most of the options were obvious.

Only ninja'mance was Leliana and Alistair and since Alistair was a m/f romance only there wasn't much complaining and Leliana was a massive bug.


My apologies, my short hand has caused some confusion here for you.  I use DA as short hand for the series, and my main complaint was with Anders.  And what I was refering to was the fact that there was any ninja'mancing going on.  No one wants to be ninja'manced, and it is very unlikely to happen in ME3.


HAHAHA i hope not!!! in ME1 it was weird when Kaidan got peeved and burst in with Liara and announced..."WE NEED TO TALK!"   :huh:slow down there cowboy! homeboy was really upset...

Leliana was a fight and half to s/s romance my first runthrough...IT SUCKED if you missed the one dialogue option..cuz after you closed out the window..the line wouldnt come back..even at +100!! so save before you flirt!

#123
PMC65

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jlb524 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Which is GREAT, by the way, but honestly? ENTIRE TEAM IS JACOB SHEPARDSEXUAL is a bit much.


I'm still not sure why this is such a big deal to people...considering we're talking about video game characters and I think it would be nicer if people had the choice to romance whoever they wanted amongst the LIs with whichever Shepard they wanted, instead of having to romance 'that one bisexual' with their gay/bi Shepard.

Now, expecting everyone in real life to bend to your animal magnetism and want to jump in bed with you regardless is absurd, of course.


Speak for yourself jlb524 ... everyone bends to my animal magnetism and wants to jump in bed with me. Never mind that this only happens after the men in white coats gives me my meds .... Image IPB 

#124
Ryzaki

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bobobo878 wrote...

Zatwu wrote...

In all seriousness, I don't mind S/S relationships but I think all relationships should be player initiated only. The progressively exaggerated number of people lining up for me to say "No" in ME2 stopped being funny a while ago.

it would also be an interesting change of pace if shepard got rejected once in a while (way to go Samara)


Agreed on both points.

I shouldn't be told to f*** off by jack because I accidently pressed a romance trigger and later backed out. That's bull.

#125
Captain Kibosh

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I was originally going to respond to another thread entitled Fight for a Compromise, but it was locked by the moderators (who directed us here). Thought I would post it here having put a lot of thought into this. It's basically my argument against any game players who object to the increased options for same-sex relationships.

For some game players who are not in favor of same-sex relationships (often cultural bias under the guise of narrative credibility), their rationale to limit depictions of same-sex relationships basically boils down to a continuity argument: making characters "suddenly" gay or bisexual creates a problem of retroactive continuity--the controversial writer's ploy (and bane of some sci-fi aficionados) of re-creating the history of a given narrative.

I can agree up to a very limited point--to build into the narrative that every character is bisexual might push credibility, BUT really what some perceive as an "upending" of continuity comes down to a bias of (heterosexual) perception. Incidentally, I'm a heterosexual making this argument.

Why would some be incredulous about, say, Garrus "suddenly" being being gay (and Shepard having the dialogue trees to allow such an option) but not about when a player has the option to sleep with MULTIPLE opposite sex partners on a very very small ship, e.g., dumping Jack for Miranda would seem like a very very bad idea, but the ME2 narrative as it stands allows us to get away with it. Talk about a break in continuity in terms of Jack and her trust issues! Why wouldn't she treat Shepard into a major biotic smackdown given her trust issues? Is this adolescent male heterosexual fantasy of bedding every chick in sight really any more credible compared to Garrus possibly being in the closet or only finally opening up to Shepard in the third act? To my mind, not really!

And there's another problem with the continuity argument likely informed by (cultural/religious?) bias that wants to dictate what is "canon." Whose to say that futuristic society hasn't become more progressive in terms of the way it views sexuality?

As a teacher, I'm amazed and impressed by the way some of my students can be openly gay compared to when I was a student, where I think students in the closet were in mortal fear of social persecution. In fact, one of my own friends didn't come out till he was in college, and I had no clue back then!

If that could happen in one generation, then I wouldn't be surprised one hundred years from now that we don't have the same hang-ups on what constitutes social norms and "credible" behavior.

I don't know if there are any Dr. Who or Torchwood fans out there, but the character Jack Harkness embodies that omni-sexual outlook that seems entirely plausible to me for a man from the distant future.

So who am I to deny a space commando from the future his choice in partners? Do ask, do tell!

Modifié par Captain Kibosh, 16 mai 2011 - 06:02 .