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[Haristo]

 Something that blows my mind is how peoples thinks that something based on the gameplay or choices limits allowed and/of removed from Mass Effect 1 and 2 consists as story facts. It is not because you can't have kaidan as a gay LI in ME1 that he is obviously heterosexual, it's simply that the game never really went into that. It's like saying that Sonic can't speak because when you play Sonic1 on Genesis, well he can't ****in' talk !

the truth is as long as it is not introduced in the storyline that a character is obviously heterosexual (he said something like : ''Sorry captain, I'm not really into the man genre...'' or ''Oh Shepard... I'm so sorry but... I'm not excited by girls... ''), well the character is sexually incomplete and CAN be filled by new gameplay/Storyline options into future games.

this is breaking the fourth wall and I think a lot of peoples uses it thinking theyre right, well you guys we're screwed but don't take it bad... and others uses it knowing they're wrong, but to gives an excuse to their homophobic beliefs... well for Darwin's sake can you GTFO...

[Clonedzero]

Haristo wrote...

 Something that blows my mind is how peoples thinks that something based on the gameplay or choices limits allowed and/of removed from Mass Effect 1 and 2 consists as story facts. It is not because you can't have kaidan as a gay LI in ME1 that he is obviously heterosexual, it's simply that the game never really went into that. It's like saying that Sonic can't speak because when you play Sonic1 on Genesis, well he can't ****in' talk !

the truth is as long as it is not introduced in the storyline that a character is obviously heterosexual (he said something like : ''Sorry captain, I'm not really into the man genre...'' or ''Oh Shepard... I'm so sorry but... I'm not excited by girls... ''), well the character is sexually incomplete and CAN be filled by new gameplay/Storyline options into future games.

this is breaking the fourth wall and I think a lot of peoples uses it thinking theyre right, well you guys we're screwed but don't take it bad... and others uses it knowing they're wrong, but to gives an excuse to their homophobic beliefs... well for Darwin's sake can you GTFO...

are you suggesting sonic speaking was good for the sonic franchise? cus uh, i stopped reading there....

[AngelicMachinery]

Clonedzero wrote...

Haristo wrote...

 Something that blows my mind is how peoples thinks that something based on the gameplay or choices limits allowed and/of removed from Mass Effect 1 and 2 consists as story facts. It is not because you can't have kaidan as a gay LI in ME1 that he is obviously heterosexual, it's simply that the game never really went into that. It's like saying that Sonic can't speak because when you play Sonic1 on Genesis, well he can't ****in' talk !

the truth is as long as it is not introduced in the storyline that a character is obviously heterosexual (he said something like : ''Sorry captain, I'm not really into the man genre...'' or ''Oh Shepard... I'm so sorry but... I'm not excited by girls... ''), well the character is sexually incomplete and CAN be filled by new gameplay/Storyline options into future games.

this is breaking the fourth wall and I think a lot of peoples uses it thinking theyre right, well you guys we're screwed but don't take it bad... and others uses it knowing they're wrong, but to gives an excuse to their homophobic beliefs... well for Darwin's sake can you GTFO...

are you suggesting sonic speaking was good for the sonic franchise? cus uh, i stopped reading there....

The charming voice of Steven Urkel demanding Chilli Dogs would like a word with you.

[Zulmoka531]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Haristo wrote...

 Something that blows my mind is how peoples thinks that something based on the gameplay or choices limits allowed and/of removed from Mass Effect 1 and 2 consists as story facts. It is not because you can't have kaidan as a gay LI in ME1 that he is obviously heterosexual, it's simply that the game never really went into that. It's like saying that Sonic can't speak because when you play Sonic1 on Genesis, well he can't ****in' talk !

the truth is as long as it is not introduced in the storyline that a character is obviously heterosexual (he said something like : ''Sorry captain, I'm not really into the man genre...'' or ''Oh Shepard... I'm so sorry but... I'm not excited by girls... ''), well the character is sexually incomplete and CAN be filled by new gameplay/Storyline options into future games.

this is breaking the fourth wall and I think a lot of peoples uses it thinking theyre right, well you guys we're screwed but don't take it bad... and others uses it knowing they're wrong, but to gives an excuse to their homophobic beliefs... well for Darwin's sake can you GTFO...

are you suggesting sonic speaking was good for the sonic franchise? cus uh, i stopped reading there....

The charming voice of Steven Urkel demanding Chilli Dogs would like a word with you.

Hey now, that cartoon was in a league of it's own.

[Haristo]

Clonedzero wrote...

Haristo wrote...

 Something that blows my mind is how peoples thinks that something based on the gameplay or choices limits allowed and/of removed from Mass Effect 1 and 2 consists as story facts. It is not because you can't have kaidan as a gay LI in ME1 that he is obviously heterosexual, it's simply that the game never really went into that. It's like saying that Sonic can't speak because when you play Sonic1 on Genesis, well he can't ****in' talk !

the truth is as long as it is not introduced in the storyline that a character is obviously heterosexual (he said something like : ''Sorry captain, I'm not really into the man genre...'' or ''Oh Shepard... I'm so sorry but... I'm not excited by girls... ''), well the character is sexually incomplete and CAN be filled by new gameplay/Storyline options into future games.

this is breaking the fourth wall and I think a lot of peoples uses it thinking theyre right, well you guys we're screwed but don't take it bad... and others uses it knowing they're wrong, but to gives an excuse to their homophobic beliefs... well for Darwin's sake can you GTFO...

are you suggesting sonic speaking was good for the sonic franchise? cus uh, i stopped reading there....

depends about sonic... the shows we're pretty cools (except the first one) and his voice was pretty cool in both Sonic Adventure and Sonic Heroes... anyway that was not the point, I'm just saying that even if the first game never made sonic Speak, at no point I thought a giant blue hedgehog running into Chess table-like tropical zones to find emeralds and defeat a egg-themed evil doctor wasn't able to talk, and I never thought our ME Squadmates like Jack and (Mostly) Jacob to be fully heterosexual.

it is not because you don't know about it that you can deny its truth in a specific context... I can agree in a religious discussion if you are atheist that you have some arguments agains't the existence of god and blah blah blah... this is philosophy and religion and we'll never have proofs...

but at this very time you may have a neighbour raping a little girl and you don't know about it, it doesn't make the fact that he's raping her false....

Modifié par Haristo, 17 mai 2011 - 12:30 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Haristo wrote...


but at this very time you have have a neighbour raping a little girl and you don't know about it, it doesn't make the fact that he's raping her false....

Really classy...  why the hell did you even post this?

[Haristo]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Haristo wrote...


but at this very time you can have a neighbour raping a little girl and you don't know about it, it doesn't make the fact that he's raping her false....

Really classy...  why the hell did you even post this?

Because it's the same thing : It's not because you never knew that a character was gay that he's not and can't be. and using the gameplay argument is breaking the fourth wall.. the only valuable argument is a fact stating in ME1 or ME2, of a character saying ''dude : I don't like penises''.. But there's none !

[Eradyn]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Haristo wrote...


but at this very time you have have a neighbour raping a little girl and you don't know about it, it doesn't make the fact that he's raping her false....

Really classy...  why the hell did you even post this?

I was going to say... <_<

Haristo wrote...

Because
it's the same thing : It's not because you never knew that a character
was gay that he's not and can't be. and using the gameplay argument is
breaking the fourth wall.. the only valuable argument is a fact stating
in ME1 or ME2, of a character saying ''dude : I don't like penises''..
But there's none !

Incorrect.  It is not the same thing.  In your...example, you have set up a definitive reality.  Something DID happen.  It isn't a matter of is it real; in your example, it is and it is a reality regardless if there were other witnesses beyond the victim and the perpetrator of the crime.

Let's try to keep future examples more tasteful, please.  There's a whole slew of them to choose from, we don't have to resort to pedophilia and the like to try and get a point across.

Modifié par Eradyn, 17 mai 2011 - 12:36 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Haristo wrote...

Because it's the same thing : It's not because you never knew that a character was gay that he's not and can't be. and using the gameplay argument is breaking the fourth wall.. the only valuable argument is a fact stating in ME1 or ME2, of a character saying ''dude : I don't like penises''.. But there's none !

The argument works fine without mentioning rape,  I don't see the point unless you were trying to pointlessly shock and agrivate people who read the line.

[Haristo]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Haristo wrote...

Because it's the same thing : It's not because you never knew that a character was gay that he's not and can't be. and using the gameplay argument is breaking the fourth wall.. the only valuable argument is a fact stating in ME1 or ME2, of a character saying ''dude : I don't like penises''.. But there's none !

The argument works fine without mentioning rape,  I don't see the point unless you were trying to pointlessly shock and agrivate people who read the line.

this is what I kind of wanted to do... trying (and failing) to be a little Amazing Atheist... You see, I said it on my first post on page 50 and it was countered so I told myself : ''lets be a little more punchy''...

Modifié par Haristo, 17 mai 2011 - 12:38 .

[hawat333]

Just a side note to the people handling the import feature.
On those Male Shepards who kept Kaidan alive, he hasn't done it because he was secretly in love. So no implications of these kind.
Also, I would really much appreciate if it would have been only an option - so no bisexual comments, no hitting on same sex characters, and definitely no same sex characters hitting on mine until the player initiates it. Absolutely none of these if the player doesn't aim for them. Clear signs (like the DA2 dialogue system's intention icon) would be helful with tihs matter, so this way I won't get the scene with Kaidan where he says "What a pointless fight for survival" and I intend to respond "It'll be ok", but instead get a kissing scene, because that's where I'm done.

If these things could be done, only then would I be satisfied with the decision.
First off, because it would make me, a straight player be able to avoid scenarios I feel uncomfortable, awkward.
Secondly, I wouldn't feel cheated with a character who suddenly got rewritten, his whole identity changed under a moment's notice. (With DA2, it was acceptable to a level, Hawke was bi from the beginning, but after two games of being straight, don't force a new, bi Shepard on me, if I don't want him to be like this.)

If I get a bisexual Shepard forced on me who comes with a baggage of awkward sitations, I'll be sadly avoiding the future games of the company. Simply because I don't like to pay for something that makes me uncomfortable. If you guys get this right... well, just use a different approach than you did in JE with Sky, in DA:O with Zevran or in DA2 with Anders. Do not initiate/introduce rewritten charcters until player promted. Otherwise it would just be... eh, dumb.
You know, like with the (somewhat) new SW trilogy, where a character known for his determination and power suddenly became a wimpy whiner.

The funny thing is, that my best friend is actually gay. So don't think that that's my problem. My problem is that I never tolerate any of these things being forced on me. A character with rewritten sexual identity two thirds into the the story is such a thing. So if I get to choose, and I get nothing misleading if I follow my previous route... well, that would be a thing that could work all of us who oppose this decision, I think.

On the record: You don't change a character in the last third of a story.

[knaus86]

im not going to mention how disappointed i will be with me3 if they change current characters sexuality from the 1st 2 games.....

if someone is gonna be bi/gay - at least make them a new character and do not mess with what you have created in the 1st 2 games.

sheps personality, paragon, renegade, or neutral does not suit being gay. its that simple. he should have had bi option from game 1 (which would have affected dialogue and you could have worked it into his charatcer) or not at all.

talk about caving to PC bioware. im sick of seeing every sitcom/comedy now have 'the gay guy/couple' its such a cliche.
have other gay characters fine. but sheps personality does not suit it. and you will be messing with canon (which ever one you choose) by making him bi now.

you're spineless bioware

[Dasher1010]

I'm going to assume that the LIs for Shepard are

ManShep: Ashley, Liara, Tali, Jack, Miranda, Garrus, Kaiden

FemShep: Kaiden, Garrus, Thane, Jacob, Liara, Tali, Jack

In short, I simply can't see Thane, Jacob, Ashley or Miranda as anything but straight. I COULD see Kaiden or Jack that way pretty easily, and Tali and Garrus to an extent. But a gay Jacob just seems like it goes against everything established by his character.

Modifié par Dasher1010, 17 mai 2011 - 12:43 .

[AngelicMachinery]

[quote]Haristo wrote...

[/quote]

this is what I kind of wanted to do... trying (and failing) to be a little Amazing Atheist... You see, I said it on my first post on page 50 and it was countered so I told myself : ''lets be a little more punchy''...

[/quote]

What's the point?  It's childish,  I would be prone to agreeing with your point anyway but such a senseless line really made me question your logic.

[Blacklash93]

knaus86 wrote...

talk about caving to PC bioware. im sick of seeing every sitcom/comedy now have 'the gay guy/couple' its such a cliche.
have other gay characters fine. but sheps personality does not suit it. and you will be messing with canon (which ever one you choose) by making him bi now.

you're spineless bioware

Shepard's personality isn't totally set in stone, you know. He can be whatever sexuality you want. He isn't bi if you don't want him to be.

And Bioware is actually making a brave move doing this.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 17 mai 2011 - 12:44 .

[Olwydd]

knaus86 wrote...

im not going to mention how disappointed i will be with me3 if they change current characters sexuality from the 1st 2 games.....

if someone is gonna be bi/gay - at least make them a new character and do not mess with what you have created in the 1st 2 games.

sheps personality, paragon, renegade, or neutral does not suit being gay. its that simple. he should have had bi option from game 1 (which would have affected dialogue and you could have worked it into his charatcer) or not at all.

talk about caving to PC bioware. im sick of seeing every sitcom/comedy now have 'the gay guy/couple' its such a cliche.
have other gay characters fine. but sheps personality does not suit it. and you will be messing with canon (which ever one you choose) by making him bi now.

you're spineless bioware

*Sigh* This is why we can't have nice things. You have your cake, and now others have their cake. And guess what, it's a magic cake, so others having their cake doesn't mean you get less! Hooray! Now both parties can have their cake, and everyone is satisfied. There's no reason to deprive people of their cake simply because they were deprived of it before.

In case you were wondering, the cake is romance.

[The Spamming Troll]

as long as i get the option to cyber with some turian ladies on the extranet, what do i care if someones gay or not, or if they werent before, or if they are now.

all it means is im prolly gonna bang some dudes when i play ME3.

if i can bang a blue alien with tentacles for hair or one that lives in a vaccum sealed suit for her entire life, im pretty sure i wouldnt mind getting boinkin some dudes too.kinda wierd, but its the future so what the hell.

im bangin jacob.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 17 mai 2011 - 12:45 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

I kind of hope they don't let you start any new relationships with the already-established LIs, gay or straight. Seems like that's inviting them to take shortcuts. "Let's make this relationship accesssible to old gamers AND new gamers by having everything but the introductory conversation be like you just started dating!" They could do a lot more with building separate stories for longer relationships and relationships that are just starting out.

[hawat333]

Haristo wrote...

Because it's the same thing : It's not because you never knew that a character was gay that he's not and can't be. and using the gameplay argument is breaking the fourth wall.. the only valuable argument is a fact stating in ME1 or ME2, of a character saying ''dude : I don't like penises''.. But there's none !

False.
To give a BioWare-related example.
For example, look at Anders in DA:Awakening. An absolutely straight character, it's written all over him. Without any verbal comfiration.
Look at him in DA2, if you play a male char (never tried female, don't know the layout). It's homosexual written all over him.
Same way, Shepard, for example, was straight for two games.

[Haristo]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Haristo wrote...

this is what I kind of wanted to do... trying (and failing) to be a little Amazing Atheist... You see, I said it on my first post on page 50 and it was countered so I told myself : ''lets be a little more punchy''...

What's the point?  It's childish,  I would be prone to agreeing with your point anyway but such a senseless line really made me question your logic.

just wanted to be a little more punchy, thats it... I remembered a case here in Quebec about a popular singer being molested by her artist manager when she was 12 and I was like ''well... we never knew but it doesn't mean that he didn't do it...''... maybe I should have said it this way, more informative, less ''fox new''y... sorry...

[knaus86]

Olwydd wrote...

*Sigh* This is why we can't have nice things. You have your cake, and now others have their cake. And guess what, it's a magic cake, so others having their cake doesn't mean you get less! Hooray! Now both parties can have their cake, and everyone is satisfied. There's no reason to deprive people of their cake simply because they were deprived of it before.

In case you were wondering, the cake is romance.

they should have baked the freaking cake properly from the start. not got it out halfway through and stuffed a different flavour into it then put it back in the oven

thats a **** cake.

[AngelicMachinery]

Haristo wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Haristo wrote...

this is what I kind of wanted to do... trying (and failing) to be a little Amazing Atheist... You see, I said it on my first post on page 50 and it was countered so I told myself : ''lets be a little more punchy''...

What's the point?  It's childish,  I would be prone to agreeing with your point anyway but such a senseless line really made me question your logic.

just wanted to be a little more punchy, thats it... I remembered a case here in Quebec about a popular singer being molested by her artist manager when she was 12 and I was like ''well... we never knew but it doesn't mean that he didn't do it...''... maybe I should have said it this way, more informative, less ''fox new''y... sorry...

How about with less sexual assault?  That would make me a happy camper.

[Olwydd]

hawat333 wrote...

Haristo wrote...

Because it's the same thing : It's not because you never knew that a character was gay that he's not and can't be. and using the gameplay argument is breaking the fourth wall.. the only valuable argument is a fact stating in ME1 or ME2, of a character saying ''dude : I don't like penises''.. But there's none !

False.
To give a BioWare-related example.
For example, look at Anders in DA:Awakening. An absolutely straight character, it's written all over him. Without any verbal comfiration.
Look at him in DA2, if you play a male char (never tried female, don't know the layout). It's homosexual written all over him.
Same way, Shepard, for example, was straight for two games.

False. Your  logic is...well...not, and your experimental procedure is flawed. What you have is an opinion, and opinion =/= fact.

[Ryzaki]

hawat333 wrote...

Haristo wrote...

Because it's the same thing : It's not because you never knew that a character was gay that he's not and can't be. and using the gameplay argument is breaking the fourth wall.. the only valuable argument is a fact stating in ME1 or ME2, of a character saying ''dude : I don't like penises''.. But there's none !

False.
To give a BioWare-related example.
For example, look at Anders in DA:Awakening. An absolutely straight character, it's written all over him. Without any verbal comfiration.
Look at him in DA2, if you play a male char (never tried female, don't know the layout). It's homosexual written all over him.
Same way, Shepard, for example, was straight for two games.

Anders is not obviously straight. 

People need to stop using him as an example. 

How was he so obviously straight hmm? because he had a female love? Well whoopie! That's kind of what bisexuals do! Or maybe it as because he was repulsed by a Male Warden's Advances...oh wait the male warden never gave him any advances. And then there was that odd comment to Nathaniel..and that odd "I love you..but not in that way." to the warden regardless of gender. '

He's bisexual. He was always bisexual

You assumed he was straight. 

You were wrong. 

It happens. 

[Haristo]

hawat333 wrote...

Haristo wrote...

Because it's the same thing : It's not because you never knew that a character was gay that he's not and can't be. and using the gameplay argument is breaking the fourth wall.. the only valuable argument is a fact stating in ME1 or ME2, of a character saying ''dude : I don't like penises''.. But there's none !

False.
To give a BioWare-related example.
For example, look at Anders in DA:Awakening. An absolutely straight character, it's written all over him. Without any verbal comfiration.
Look at him in DA2, if you play a male char (never tried female, don't know the layout). It's homosexual written all over him.
Same way, Shepard, for example, was straight for two games.

well as you can see I played a male in DA:A So yeah, okay I approve with the first part, but I played a female and only female and DA2 and I must say that he has nothing of an homosexual, he's pretty manly, and classicly romantic... you're using your own point of view as a fact because as a Bisexual character he wanted to do your Male Hawke... Except with the fact that Anders is much less badass and more whining about mages conditions, he's pretty much the same IMO.

if you played DA2 before DA:A, I'm sure you would have seen Anders as gay or bi from the very beggining...

Modifié par Haristo, 17 mai 2011 - 12:50 .