6696 réponses à ce sujet

[PMC65]

Ryzaki wrote...

But I agree about not liking people hitting on your character. I just wish some people could be mature about it. Isabela hit on my Hawke and I didn't run around screaming OMG GAY GAY GAY GAY! 

The best compromise I've set yet is to make sure all romances are player initated. That would be the best solution for all romances because I'm sick of being ninjamanced in Mass Effect. It's annoying. Gay or straight. 

Ninjamanced or little to no friendship dialogue ... I hated both of these.

Your crew stopped talking to you if you weren't romancing them.

[SennenScale]

rabidhanar wrote...

Why Ashley in particular? Couldn't another character or even better, a new character, play out this role? Personally I do not see Ashley as a bisexual in the least. Her religion could have an issue with it and she has the line with her sister involving Kaiden (my how a confrontation between Femshep and Ashley could have been planned, alas).

I would like to hear your thoughts on having Ashley as a bisexual in ME3.

It's the "Dismissed....chief"  "Ma'am" exchange I think, and the slight ex-girlfriend vibes on Horizon.

[Olwydd]

paptschik wrote...


I wouldn't say growth or development, because that makes it sound like they would become better for it. It is change, that is all it is....but it may not be change everyone wants and it IS drastic change at a very late point. BUT - if they develop..if THAT is what happens...I would be more okay with it. But that is work I do not see the creators putting into this. It would need a LOT of dialog to now have the characters develop in that direction in a logical and meaningful way and not simply BE there. And them just now BEING bi, not becoming bi, just BEING bi, that too me would be a retcon. I know it wouldn't be to others because they already see the characters as bi...good for them. But if it happens without explanation it would be an annoyance and unwelcome to me.

Which is why I would be in favor of the homosexual li being new. I can see people wanting more, I can.
I'm still waiting for my dwarf romance in Dragon Age and hope for Varric and Sigrun in DA3, so I'm not even opposed to characters becoming romancable in a sequel if they weren't previously....but I don't know....I just wouldn't like it with certain characters. It's a personal thing, I know.
Doesn't change that being told that "how you thought about the game was wrong" is something that does not exactly add to the enjoyment of the game.

Characters change, both over time as a function of in-game events, and within the writer's mind. This is innevitable. That they change is not itself a retcon; the writers aren't going back in time to change something that was explicitly and incontrevertably proven before, so 'making' characters bisexual is fair game. I object to the notion of 'straight until proven otherwise', since we do not have all facts in hand. Moreover, why do we necessarily need a massive amount of exposition justifying the newly available option? Why should a character have to justify their sexuality to you?

Essentially, you're arguing against something that defies your preconceived notions of who (non-player) characters are and how they feel. Unfortunately, that really doesn't hold any water; they aren't yours to define in the first place.

Modifié par Olwydd, 17 mai 2011 - 01:58 .

[PMC65]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Good time for an "out the airlock" mod.

My femshep needed that for Jacob.

[James2912]

paptschik wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Here's a tweet from one of the ME3 devs on twitter that I thought was interesting:
Twitter / @Manveer Heir: If it was 1967 right now w ...

....
But same sex relationships are pretty normal for Bioware. I don't see the progress, frankly, I think it's actually a bit of a fail that they weren't there in the first place and a large part of the people having issues right now wouldn't have them if that would have been the case.

Very true if they had testicular fortitude they would have put it in the first game. Instead they failed to include this option in two games. Maybe they could explain that...

Modifié par James2912, 17 mai 2011 - 01:56 .

[PMC65]

SennenScale wrote...

rabidhanar wrote...

Why Ashley in particular? Couldn't another character or even better, a new character, play out this role? Personally I do not see Ashley as a bisexual in the least. Her religion could have an issue with it and she has the line with her sister involving Kaiden (my how a confrontation between Femshep and Ashley could have been planned, alas).

I would like to hear your thoughts on having Ashley as a bisexual in ME3.

It's the "Dismissed....chief"  "Ma'am" exchange I think, and the slight ex-girlfriend vibes on Horizon.

And gay people do go to church ... I attend a church that our pastor is gay.

[SennenScale]

PMC65 wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Good time for an "out the airlock" mod.

My femshep needed that for Jacob.

I needed it for Jacob and Miri. Why does that girl think I want to see her butt in every convo?

[paptschik]

Ryzaki wrote...

You don't have to. The point stands. I think you get rivalry from everyone except Izzy for rejecting them. Fenris gave me +5 rivalry. Most of the time I've noticed people rival Fenris so they don't notice it. (Either that or I always manage to ****** him off...) 

Fenris is, I think the hardest to romance in a non-rival way, mostly because I don't want to hate on mages all the time...but my second FemHawke is doing well so far.

Ryzaki wrote...
They did. I know I would've been in trouble if I had pressed the heart choices without that big ol' heart.  I did it once for the lulz and everyone and their mother was trying to romance me at once. Never again. 

ME should have some green text or something...I'm sick of Jack telling me to F*** OFF! 

It was hilarious though. 

The Jack bits really bothered me. I could see the characters not having any more dialog, but Jack going out of her way to tell me she was not interested in FemShep and would hate a male Shep that didn't want to love her....that was a bit annoying after a while.

[Seven_Two_One]

James2912 wrote...

paptschik wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Here's a tweet from one of the ME3 devs on twitter that I thought was interesting:
Twitter / @Manveer Heir: If it was 1967 right now w ...

....
But same sex relationships are pretty normal for Bioware. I don't see the progress, frankly, I think it's actually a bit of a fail that they weren't there in the first place and a large part of the people having issues right now wouldn't have them if that would have been the case.

Very true if they had testicular fortitude they would have put it in the first game. Instead they failed to include this option in two games. Maybe they could explain that...

Also, if it was 1967 we'd be acting out Mass Effect with plastic army men and rocks.

Progress!!!

[Bluko]

(Reposting from other thead FYI, point has probably been already made, but I'll put in my 2 cents all the same.)


It's always did seem a bit odd that there's always been some kind of F/F option in the games. (Although admittedly western society is more tolerant of this.) I mean sure the Asari are "mono-gender" but come on. I just hope they handle this delicately.

I really don't want Garrus or Kaidan all of sudden offering to jump in the sack with my male Shepard just because I say nice things to them. Also it would seem rather odd for both of those two given that we know they are essentially straight (Garrus and his Scout lady-friend, Kaidan's old girlfriend, and Kaidan also even mentions Liara's not bad on the eyes.) So yeah if either one of them all of sudden jumps out of the closet to tell me they're actually Bisexual I'm going to have to raise an eyebrow at that. Although in the case of Jack or Tali this would be more acceptable since we know Jack has before, and Tali seems to have a bit of thing for Female Shepard and she has no prior established preference.

If the new characters turn out to be Bisexual or Homosexual that's fine certainly though.

One thing I might add. It's way too easy to stumble into romances in both ME1 and ME2, especially with Jack since there doen't seem to be much option of simply just talking to her nicely if you're male. Also I think it'd be preferable if Shepard made the first move sometimes, especially in the same-sex romances. 

I just want the romance dialogue to be a bit more seperated from the standard dialogue options. Adding some kind of clear "flirtatious" dialogue option on the wheel would be greatly appreciated. Cause hey not all of us want to sleep around with a crewmember every playthrough. And it be nice if we wouldn't have to simply not talk to them or be a douche to them.

[Ryzaki]

PMC65 wrote...
Ninjamanced or little to no friendship dialogue ... I hated both of these. 

Your crew stopped talking to you if you weren't romancing them.

Yeah for all of DA2's gayness at least they were willing to talk if you weren't tumbling around with them. <_< Calibrations my ass. 

Thankfully Hudson said they were aiming for more non-romance dialogue and interaction so hopefully that won't be so large an issue. 

Say anything bad you want about the DA team but you have to admit they give the PC a great deal of conversations and character interaction without having to romance someone. 

[AngelicMachinery]

rabidhanar wrote...

Why Ashley in particular? Couldn't another character or even better, a new character, play out this role? Personally I do not see Ashley as a bisexual in the least. Her religion could have an issue with it and she has the line with her sister involving Kaiden (my how a confrontation between Femshep and Ashley could have been planned, alas).

I would like to hear your thoughts on having Ashley as a bisexual in ME3.

I know bisexual/gay christians,  just because the church doesn't condone such acts doesn't mean there are not people out there who still embrace there faith while being true to themselves.  On the other hand I cannot see Miranda might not work,   it depends on how badly she wants a little perfect baby running around.

[CmmndrShepard]

I'd like to cast a vote against same-sex relationships for Male Shepard, because it goes against his orientation as prescribed in the first two games. So if same-sex relationships for John Shepard are available, it should only be if there was no love interest in the first two. That would be the only logical option in accordance with the storyline that's already been developed. The Commander can't compromise his standing in the last twenty minutes of battle. It's a story that has been built up for two-thirds of the plotline. Changing orientation would be one heck of a climax in the story...

[rabidhanar]

I understand that gay people do go to churches...It is just that Ashley's personality including both her sacrificial nature (trying to bring back her family honor) and her view of aliens could make her intimidated out of a same sex relationship...one more bullet whizzing by her head, if you will.

In ME2 Ashley seemed to have the hots from MaleShep quite well, I didn't even talk to her during the first game, I just thought that having the tech expert used at Virmire was a smart choice. Her speech about the commander made me wonder what she exactly did down in the cargo hold o.O

[Ryzaki]

SennenScale wrote...

I needed it for Jacob and Miri. Why does that girl think I want to see her butt in every convo?

Ugh. Indeed. I wouldn't have minded tossing whoever decided on those camera angles out an airlock. 

paptschik wrote...
Fenris is, I think the hardest to romance in a non-rival way, mostly because I don't want to hate on mages all the time...but my second FemHawke is doing well so far.

Aye my pro-templar had no problem romancing him. 

The Jack bits really bothered me. I could see the characters not having any more dialog, but Jack going out of her way to tell me she was not interested in FemShep and would hate a male Shep that didn't want to love her....that was a bit annoying after a while.

It did. I shouldn't have to sex her up to tell her my Shep's there if she ever needs an ear. The fact that he had to be in a relationship with her to hear her out was ridculous.

And yes the reaction was over the top. It irked me to the point that I just stopped talking to her and started wondering what she was doing on the ship and then getting pissed off enough to kill her character off. 

That's not good BW. Lack of friendship dialogue led me to killing someone off. 

[PMC65]

bellabri287 wrote...

I think if they suddenly make any of the ME1& LI bisexual in ME3 it will cheapen the romances for me. If they make anyone in M2 bisexual for ME3 they should have not been LI before, or should be new characters. To me, Kaidan and Ash just are not bisexual, like others have said if they were going to be they should have been from the start.

Another thing, in DA:2 having everyone bi made me always worried about accidentally flirting with someone, I felt like I couldn't just be nice or else one of them would want to jump me and possibly ruin my romance with another character.  Do not want in ME3!

After Horizon ... my femshep deserves more than cuddles from Ash dang it! Much more ....

[Zulmoka531]

Eradyn wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Here's a tweet from one of the ME3 devs on twitter that I thought was interesting:
Twitter / @Manveer Heir: If it was 1967 right now w ...

To be fair, I think most people here are for having homosexual or bisexual LIs in ME3.  I think the issue comes down to people either wanting already-established LIs to have a shift in orientation, or if it should instead be new LIs that are designed to be homosexual or bisexual from the ground up.  I prefer the latter.  Others may, and do, disagree.

Pretty much this. Had it already been established Im sure 90% of the conversations would not be taking place.

[TheSimsMaster]

Thane and Tali was originally suppose to be a romance option for BOTH Male and Female Shepard, but Bioware cut the gay/lesbian options for the two in end. Perhaps Bioware is "restoring" this content in Mass Effect 3.

[Olwydd]

CmmndrShepard wrote...

I'd like to cast a vote against same-sex relationships for Male Shepard, because it goes against his orientation as prescribed in the first two games. So if same-sex relationships for John Shepard are available, it should only be if there was no love interest in the first two. That would be the only logical option in accordance with the storyline that's already been developed. The Commander can't compromise his standing in the last twenty minutes of battle. It's a story that has been built up for two-thirds of the plotline. Changing orientation would be one heck of a climax in the story...

Nobody is changing Shepard's sexuality. You create a Shepard with orientation x, where x is the sexual orientation of your chosing. Nowhere is it stated that Shepard cannot be gay or bisexual. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Modifié par Olwydd, 17 mai 2011 - 02:05 .

[AngelicMachinery]

rabidhanar wrote...

I understand that gay people do go to churches...It is just that Ashley's personality including both her sacrificial nature (trying to bring back her family honor) and her view of aliens could make her intimidated out of a same sex relationship...one more bullet whizzing by her head, if you will.

I'm not seeing how being a lesbian goes against one having a death wish or a dislike of aliens.  

[paptschik]

Olwydd wrote...

paptschik wrote...


I wouldn't say growth or development, because that makes it sound like they would become better for it. It is change, that is all it is....but it may not be change everyone wants and it IS drastic change at a very late point. BUT - if they develop..if THAT is what happens...I would be more okay with it. But that is work I do not see the creators putting into this. It would need a LOT of dialog to now have the characters develop in that direction in a logical and meaningful way and not simply BE there. And them just now BEING bi, not becoming bi, just BEING bi, that too me would be a retcon. I know it wouldn't be to others because they already see the characters as bi...good for them. But if it happens without explanation it would be an annoyance and unwelcome to me.

Which is why I would be in favor of the homosexual li being new. I can see people wanting more, I can.
I'm still waiting for my dwarf romance in Dragon Age and hope for Varric and Sigrun in DA3, so I'm not even opposed to characters becoming romancable in a sequel if they weren't previously....but I don't know....I just wouldn't like it with certain characters. It's a personal thing, I know.
Doesn't change that being told that "how you thought about the game was wrong" is something that does not exactly add to the enjoyment of the game.

Characters change, both over time as a function of in-game events, and within the writer's mind. This is innevitable. That they change is not itself a retcon; the writers aren't going back in time to change something that was explicitly and incontrevertably proven before, so 'making' characters bisexual is fair game. I object to the notion of 'straight until proven otherwise', since we do not have all facts in hand. Moreover, why do we necessarily need a massive amount of exposition justifying the newly available option? Why should a character have to justify their sexuality to you?

Essentially, you're arguing against something that defies your preconceived notions of who (non-player) characters are and how they feel. Unfortunately, that really doesn't hold any water; they aren't yours to define in the first place.

They shouldn't have to justify it. But in the storytelling of a romance, it makes little sense for them to somehow not be bi in one game (becuase they aren't an option) and to be bi in the next. So there should be a change there and that change should be part of the romantic plots, otherwise they would be lacking. I play a story. I do not interact with real people. If I wanted that, I would. Changes to the character should be dealt with in the narrative of the game.

[javierabegazo]

Here's a tweet too, I'm sure it was posted earlier but it never hurts to bring it to light again:

Twitter / @Casey Hudson: Some game sites saying "pr ...

[Siansonea]

What part of "customizable character" do you children not understand? You would think that MaleShepard is going to get hit in the head with a disco ball in the opening scene of the game, then fall tumbling into bed with Kaidan, Garrus, AND James Vega. All set to a rockin' Village People soundtrack. Grow up already. Your precious HomophobeSheps will still be able to be huge douchebags in ME3, that's the beauty of a customizable character.

[James2912]

TheSimsMaster wrote...

Thane and Tali was originally suppose to be a romance option for BOTH Male and Female Shepard, but Bioware cut the gay/lesbian options for the two in end. Perhaps Bioware is "restoring" this content in Mass Effect 3.

To me this is very important, why is it all of a sudden that Bioware finally decided to have same sex romances when they decided against it in the two past games, what changed? I am genuinely interested in how and why this decision was made... What was there reason for not doing this before? 

[Ryzaki]

If you "fell" into a romance in DA2 you're...well...you're a very special person is all I'll say.

If a giant glowing heart isn't enough to give you pause then you're a lost cause.