6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Smilietime]

My feedback on this information is pretty short.

I think having characters with different sexualities is a good thing in general.

The problem, is that any given character has a specific sexuality, that is part of who they are. Changing someone's sexual orientation in-between games, isn't DEVELOPING their character, it is ALTERING it, in a jarring, immersion breaking way. It doesn't make sense for them to have been in the closet, not with how much trust and loyalty they can have developed earlier on, they would have come out of the closet EARLIER.

This wouldn't be a problem if it was a new character, then you could have romanced no-one up til this point, and it would fit perfectly... I've liked hearing jokes about being GAR for Garrus, but he is a fundamentally straight person, in my eyes at least.

I'm going to get ME3 regardless, I just hope they don't do anything to ruin the relationships my character has developed over this time. We'll just have to hope for the best.

[SleepySasquatch]

Sounds fine by me. As people have mentioned previously it'd be better to have the new characters be bi or homosexual to save from having to explain why the oldies have all suddenly and simultaneously had sexual epiphanies. Except in the case of Wrex. No matter how convoluted the explanation is I'll happily accept that Wrex suddenly wants male Shepard in his pants. 'Cause Wrex is a bro.

onelifecrisis wrote...

I have a good deal of faith in the Mass Effect writing team when it comes to Character Development to not be worried about this in the slightest.

Tali in ME1: "I'm not interested in Shepard."
Tali in ME2: "I've always been interested in Shepard!"

Liara in ME1: "Paragon FTW! I love Shepard!"
Liara in ME2: "Renegade FTW! I don't have time for Shepard."

Ashley/Kaiden in ME1: "I love Shepard!"
Ashley/Kaiden in ME2: "I hate Shepard!"

Wrex in ME1: "Screw helping my people."
Wrex in ME2: "I need to help my people!"

The Mass Effect writing team have shown that they can do superb character development arcs within a single game (this is evidenced in both ME1 and ME2 taken as seperate games) but I don't share your faith in their ability to do convincing character developments across games, based on what I've seen so far.

Sexual orientation is one thing, but isn't the alteration of personal preferences and priorities over a significant period of time a perfect example of character development? In addition to this, some of your illustrations could just be outright lies on the parts of the characters involved.

[NICKjnp]

Actually there are sectarian groups that are specifically gay. They are Christian and they are gay/lesbian/bisexual.

[SennenScale]

PMC65 wrote...


The US ... California

Hey, me too! But my area is super-hostile to gays for whatever reason. And androgynous faces, oddly enough.

[SilentNukee]

Sigh...
I dislike when people say this "it'd be better to have the new characters be bi or homosexual to save from having to explain why the oldies have all suddenly and simultaneously had sexual epiphanies."
.......................... They never said they were straight to begin with, you all assume they are because they do not show signs of the stereotypical gay image you have in your head.
Jack is the only one who actually says anything of the sort, if you choose to have a paragon conversation with her after her loyalty mission as FemShep.

Modifié par SilentNukee, 17 mai 2011 - 04:07 .

[NICKjnp]

Jack says she is straight.

[RaenImrahl]

Siansonea II wrote...

I have been trying to illustrate this point, which should be self-evident, for MONTHS, and yet every five minutes another person drops in and says the exact same thing.

And that's the problem, from my perspective.  Of course new people will come in.  That's the nature of an online forum. I frankly don't care one wit about the subject of this forum.  But I find the discussion interesting... except when it decends into this back-and-forth bickering, which you've championed tonight.

Siansonea II wrote...

Sometimes you have to use a bit of color commentary to get a point across, you know? People just don't listen when you use dry logic.

I can understand that, but engaging in a tete-a-tete with every single opposing viewpoint prevents the overall discussion from moving forward. What you're doing is not "color commentary". You're trying to slog it out with each and every person who has a divergent viewpoint.

So what, in your opinion, is the best way for Bioware to implement this change in romance options? Can you state your opinion, succinctly and colorfully, without trying to bulldoze all others out of the way?

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 17 mai 2011 - 04:07 .

[SennenScale]

SilentNukee wrote...

Sigh...
I dislike when people say this "it'd be better to have the new characters be bi or homosexual to save from having to explain why the oldies have all suddenly and simultaneously had sexual epiphanies."
.......................... They never said they were straight to begin with, you all assume they are because they do not show signs of the stereotypical gay image you have in your head.

At least the option would be there if it was new characters. One thing at a time. I don't think we can change people's ideas overnight, but gradual inclusion of normal gay people in media will still help.


Well, normal by ME standards, anyhow. Everyone's got baggage in Mass Effect.

[PMC65]

James2912 wrote...

BeardedNinja wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

James2912 wrote...

To me this is very important, why is it all of a sudden that Bioware finally decided to have same sex romances when they decided against it in the two past games, what changed? I am genuinely interested in how and why this decision was made... What was there reason for not doing this before? 

Have you ever played on xbox live and listened to the comments people make in Halo 2/Halo 3? I love that damn series but it gets intolerable in there. Mass Effect is marketed toward the shooter crowd AS well as Bioware fans, so I'm guessing that's the reason.

...thats a horrible example, it makes no sense. So all halo fans are homophobic? Just because you heard trash talking on game chat? And thats why bioware didnt have gay romance options?

I'm still interested in any answers or opinions people might have. 

James2912 - That is really a Bioware question ... Unless you are just asking us to guess. If I were to guess, I would say that they listened to their "investors" (gamers) and responded. But that is just a guess.

[Ryzaki]

I actually want a non-filledtothebrim with issues s/s LI. Someone well mentally adjusted and just wants to stop the reapers. 

I've had enough of daddy issues.
I don't want this person to be cheerful mc cheerful though. 

That'll make me wanna strangle them. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2011 - 04:09 .

[Smilietime]

Casey Hudson (from twitter):

"Some game sites saying "previously straight chars now available for both
m&f chars" not necessarily true. Will have some new LI's in ME3"

This sounds great. Someone should attatch this to the Origional Post.

It's annoying, reading some news articles going all jubilant about how they think they will finally have a gay relationship with their favorite character. I'm sure that they will all stay in character, regardless, rather than replacing a character we know with a similar character (who has a different orientation) all the sudden.

[James2912]

SilentNukee wrote...

Sigh...
I dislike when people say this "it'd be better to have the new characters be bi or homosexual to save from having to explain why the oldies have all suddenly and simultaneously had sexual epiphanies."
.......................... They never said they were straight to begin with, you all assume they are because they do not show signs of the stereotypical gay image you have in your head.

I dislike when people wish for everyone in mass effect to be gay or bisexual. I've said it before and I'll say it again develop new/ gay/bi characters Bioware don't just sloppily say we'll just make everyone gay cuz that way its easy. It will also encourage people to play multiple playthroughs some of them being gay. They could create a really cool male gay character that might encourage people to try playing as a gay shepard. 

[CulturalGeekGirl]

SilentNukee wrote...

Sigh...
I dislike when people say this "it'd be better to have the new characters be bi or homosexual to save from having to explain why the oldies have all suddenly and simultaneously had sexual epiphanies."
.......................... They never said they were straight to begin with, you all assume they are because they do not show signs of the stereotypical gay image you have in your head.
Jack is the only one who actually says anything of the sort, if you choose to have a paragon conversation with her after her loyalty mission as FemShep.

For me, if two people I know come out as bisexual on the same day, I'd be like "cool, cool." If four come out as bisexual on the same day, and it isn't national coming-out day, I'd think that was a weird statistical anomaly. If all eight of my best friends came out as bisexual on the same day, I'd find it very jarring.

If I were watching a romantic comedy and the final, third act plot twist was that every single person was bisexual but nobody was poly, it would totally break my suspention of disbelief. (Honestly I'm already shocked that nobody in the ME universe, with the possible exception of Liara, is poly. COME ON NOW? REALLY? I realize this probably bothers no one but me)

I don't think it's a change of cannon to have a few characters reveal that they are bisexual. But having all of them do so stretches my suspension of disbelief in the same way it would be stretched if Wrex and Grunt suddenly became interested in human sex.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 17 mai 2011 - 04:14 .

[Siansonea]

NICKjnp wrote...

Jack says she is straight.

Actually, Jack says she's not into the "Girl's Club" thing. People interpret that as her saying she's not into girls, but she also says she "doesn't have a boyfriend or a girlfriend" because it never works, and that she had threesomes with her friend Marana and her boyfriend. I think it's significant that she doesn't mention a male she had sex with by name. Clearly her primary relationship was with Marana. So she has s/s experience in her past, and a heightened animosity toward women (she goes off on Miranda, but not Jacob), which tells me that she has a sore spot with women, but not necessarily that she's a comfortable, confident heterosexual who simply isn't into women anymore. Jack's not the most 'reliable narrator' of her own life anyway, I would question and analyze everything that comes out of her mouth, she's the most psychologically damaged person in the game.

[SilentNukee]

SennenScale wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

Sigh...
I dislike when people say this "it'd be better to have the new characters be bi or homosexual to save from having to explain why the oldies have all suddenly and simultaneously had sexual epiphanies."
.......................... They never said they were straight to begin with, you all assume they are because they do not show signs of the stereotypical gay image you have in your head.

At least the option would be there if it was new characters. One thing at a time. I don't think we can change people's ideas overnight, but gradual inclusion of normal gay people in media will still help.


Well, normal by ME standards, anyhow. Everyone's got baggage in Mass Effect.

If they add in a gay LI, do you honestly think a straight male playing the game as Shepard, would ever think of ever bringing him into their squad? They would probably try to avoid them as much as possible, or kill them off if they have the chance. But they wouldn't get the "know" the character indepth...and that's not cool. While having a "bi" Garrus, let's say, you'll still want to "bromance" him because of the way his personality is. We love him. And you could totally continue that without affecting anything, if you wish.

Modifié par SilentNukee, 17 mai 2011 - 04:17 .

[Ryzaki]

I hope the new characters have loads of attention and dialogue. They'll need the spotlight more than the older LIs. More attention. So that people can appreciate them and get to know them well.  

Hopefully the m/m and s/s romances will defintely be squaddies. While the additonal m/f options will be non-squaddies. 

That way we can get used to the m/m option andhave them fighting by our Shepard's side like nearly everyone else already had the privilage of having their LI do. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2011 - 04:15 .

[Uhh.. Jonah]

What happened to there being no new LI's? Oh well, I won't complain!

[SennenScale]

Siansonea II wrote...

Sometimes you have to use a bit of color commentary to get a point across, you know? People just don't listen when you use dry logic.

Siansonea, the people who aren't going to be convinced logically are unlikely to change their mind at all. At least, not in an internet thread.

< optimism mode >Best thing we can do is try and keep the thread alive. < / optimism mode >

It's just bashing your head against a brick wall, I'm afraid.

[onelifecrisis]

Bachi1230 wrote...

I think they should just remove romances from the game.

At this point that's really not a bad idea.

Honestly I'm continously dumbfounded at the way Bioware keep on screwing up dialogue, not just in the romances but throughout all of their recent games. How many times have you picked a dialogue option only to have Shepard say or do something totally different to what you thought they would say? I mean really, how hard can this be? All they have to do is make sure that the text on the dialogue wheel accurately reflects what will happen. It's text, for goodness sake. It takes seconds to fix this sort of problem, and they spend years developing these games and yet somehow don't find the time to go through the dialogue wheel texts and fix them.

Let's hope that in ME3 they can finally get it right.

[MACharlie1]

SilentNukee wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

Sigh...
I dislike when people say this "it'd be better to have the new characters be bi or homosexual to save from having to explain why the oldies have all suddenly and simultaneously had sexual epiphanies."
.......................... They never said they were straight to begin with, you all assume they are because they do not show signs of the stereotypical gay image you have in your head.

At least the option would be there if it was new characters. One thing at a time. I don't think we can change people's ideas overnight, but gradual inclusion of normal gay people in media will still help.


Well, normal by ME standards, anyhow. Everyone's got baggage in Mass Effect.

If they add in a gay LI, do you honestly think a straight male playing the game as Shepard, would ever think of ever bringing him into their squad? They would probably try to avoid them as much as possible, or kill them off if they have the chance. But they wouldn't get the "know" the character indepth...and that's not cool. While having a gay Garrus, let's say, you'll still want to "bromance" him because of the way his personality is. We love him. And you could totally continue that without affecting anything, if you wish.

Just as people shouldn't paint all homosexuals with a broad brush of being flamboyant and wanting to get every single man/woman in their pants that they meet, I wouldn't be painting all straight men with that brush that they'd automatically avoid the gay squadmate. A good portion of fans here will give you that idea but this is a minority. 

[SilentNukee]

James2912 wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...

Sigh...
I dislike when people say this "it'd be better to have the new characters be bi or homosexual to save from having to explain why the oldies have all suddenly and simultaneously had sexual epiphanies."
.......................... They never said they were straight to begin with, you all assume they are because they do not show signs of the stereotypical gay image you have in your head.

I dislike when people wish for everyone in mass effect to be gay or bisexual. I've said it before and I'll say it again develop new/ gay/bi characters Bioware don't just sloppily say we'll just make everyone gay cuz that way its easy. It will also encourage people to play multiple playthroughs some of them being gay. They could create a really cool male gay character that might encourage people to try playing as a gay shepard. 

The point isn't for EVERYONE to have the option, but only old members such a Ashley/Kaidan/Liara/Garrus and Tali, and that leaves us with 1-2 options for s/s on both sides.
Why does everyone assume we mean ALL of the old squaddies to have that option open when we say that? ...

[Ryzaki]

Uhh.. Jonah wrote...

What happened to there being no new LI's? Oh well, I won't complain!

Indeed not. No new LIs made me a sad panda. 

[jeweledleah]

which point would that be exactly Siansonea? that revealing more of aspects of the sexuality will not damage characters? that would depend on how its done. although in case of Shepard - it doesn't matter at all as Shepard is a player determined character. either way, I'm sure ME3 will stand splendidly on its own and that all characters will make sense within a context of that installment. I'm hoping that they will not end up with another Miranda who was inconsistent throughout the single installment (an unfortunate side effect of having no dedicated writer).

I'm learning not to sweat the small details and nuances that I'm also sure will be skimmed over, partly because most people don't even pay attention and partly because it may just be far too much work to account for them all.

I wouldn't even post here, if I didn't see the biggest piece of stereotyping crapola from one of the biggest defender of same sex relationships.

[NICKjnp]

@Sian: That is looking too much into the psyche of a VG character. She says to Femshep that she isn't into girls...with Manshep she pursues a relationship. So to me she is the only character that we know is not bisexual.

[lovgreno]

The only thing BioWare can and should do is to include what LI options they think will sell the game better. The bi choices in DA2 seemed to be a popular thing among the buyers. But I never played that game so I shouldn't use that as a example perhaps.