6696 réponses à ce sujet

[javierabegazo]

ipgd wrote...

JetsoverEverything wrote...

Fan Service is a hell of a drug.

I prefer the delicious tears of buttdevastated straight boys. Mmmm, salty.

I'm only going to say this once, but reactions like these from the normally reasonably sensible approving side of this issue is really out of line. Be the better person and don't make jabs like these.

[Xerxes52]

I'm fine with Bioware creating new LIs for s/s romances, but don't rewrite existing LIs, and allow the player to initiate the romance (with a clearly marked option).

Modifié par Xerxes52, 17 mai 2011 - 05:40 .

[SennenScale]

Ryzaki wrote...
I expected to come back and have Garrus be an awesome cop...instead I got...renegade Garrus. It's like the game completely ignored that I paragon'd him save a few throwaway lines. 

Same for me! I thought Garrus was going down a dangerous road. Then ME2 and his loyalty mission happened and undid my efforts completely. If bioware can handle that, I don't quite get what is all the fuss about a character opening up to a dude.

jlb524 wrote...

People around these parts unfairly put down the DA2 romances just b/c all are bisexual or b/c of Anders, without taking the actual romances themselves or the writing into consideration.

QFT.
People keep forgetting that we are romancing naive blood mages who
refuse to see reason until someone precious dies, a moody jerkass elf, a
moody jerkass mage who is possessed by justice/vengeance, and then
there's Isabella.

JetsoverEverything wrote...
Fan Service is a hell of a drug.

Drugs? Is that why the camera keeps focusing on Miri's ass in ME2? I knew it! My Femshep was being drugged!

[Sherbet Lemon]

Siansonea II wrote...

So, why are we debating Anders' sexuality again?

The short answer: because some people will latch onto anything in order to justify their heteronormativity.  Despite the fact that  Anders is not a example of established sexuality.  He wasn't even romanceable in Awakening.  It's pretty much just conjecture and projection, but DA2 is pretty much what everyone beats up on around here nowadays so yeah...

Also, I don't like the term "established" sexuality.  If a character can change as a person (or evolve i.e. Batman Garrus, Jack open herself up to love Shepard) then why can't a person come to the conclusion that perhaps, they might be bisexual or what have you?  What is it about this change that is so irksome...I have a theory and it doesn't have anything to do with bunnies.

Modifié par Village Idiot, 17 mai 2011 - 05:43 .

[Clonedzero]

the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

about the anders thing, yes making him bi is a retcon, because that fact didnt exist until they rewrote him. was it a bad one? nah its fine, retcons dont automatically mean bad. i just dont think they did it correctly.

anders being bi was done poorly, not because he was bi, but because he it on you in a totally un-anders way. anders was very goofy and silly, if anders was bi and was all goofy hitting on me that woulda made sense, but he's like "i like you. we mages are great, i like you" and im like eep.

and seriously? im losing respect for both sides here, the hostility is disgusting.

[JetsoverEverything]

SennenScale wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I expected to come back and have Garrus be an awesome cop...instead I got...renegade Garrus. It's like the game completely ignored that I paragon'd him save a few throwaway lines. 

Same for me! I thought Garrus was going down a dangerous road. Then ME2 and his loyalty mission happened and undid my efforts completely. If bioware can handle that, I don't quite get what is all the fuss about a character opening up to a dude.

jlb524 wrote...

People around these parts unfairly put down the DA2 romances just b/c all are bisexual or b/c of Anders, without taking the actual romances themselves or the writing into consideration.

QFT.
People keep forgetting that we are romancing naive blood mages who
refuse to see reason until someone precious dies, a moody jerkass elf, a
moody jerkass mage who is possessed by justice/vengeance, and then
there's Isabella.

JetsoverEverything wrote...
Fan Service is a hell of a drug.

Drugs? Is that why the camera keeps focusing on Miri's ass in ME2? I knew it! My Femshep was being drugged!

1. alot of people dont like the thought of garrus being gay/bi which isnt that hard to understand.

oh and yeah lol it is. fan service will make one group happy but a whole nother group is gonna complain about it

and you just gave a good example.

[Centauri2002]

Can we drop the whole "making everyone bi" nonsense please? It's not going to happen in ME3. So let's just stay on-topic and discuss what we'd actually like to see done with the small amount of same sex options that are going to be added into the game.

[JetsoverEverything]

Clonedzero wrote...

the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

about the anders thing, yes making him bi is a retcon, because that fact didnt exist until they rewrote him. was it a bad one? nah its fine, retcons dont automatically mean bad. i just dont think they did it correctly.

anders being bi was done poorly, not because he was bi, but because he it on you in a totally un-anders way. anders was very goofy and silly, if anders was bi and was all goofy hitting on me that woulda made sense, but he's like "i like you. we mages are great, i like you" and im like eep.

and seriously? im losing respect for both sides here, the hostility is disgusting.

it really is.

[JeffZero]

Nyoka wrote...

You know, I was reading the OP and the question about opening up the roleplaying experience and I think I might try to create a new heterosexual Shepard, now that it doesn't mean I belong to some exclusivist, privileged group. It feels good because now I'm doing it not because I finally had to give in and toe the line, but because the thought that ME3 will include it feels like even when I could do it in another way, I choose to do it this way. Does it makes sense at all that the inclusion of gay romances makes me see heterosexual romances as cooler?

It makes sense to me, Nyoka. My girlfriend has a lesbian half-sister (that almost sounds like the opening to a joke somehow, but I digress) and she basically said the same thing last night. Just... in fewer and less complicated words because she'd worked a double at a diner.

[Chewin]

Nyoka wrote...

You know, I was reading the OP and the question about opening up the roleplaying experience and I think I might try to create a new heterosexual Shepard, now that it doesn't mean I belong to some exclusivist, privileged group. It feels good because now I'm doing it not because I finally had to give in and toe the line, but because the thought that ME3 will include it feels like even when I could do it in another way, I choose to do it this way. Does it makes sense at all that the inclusion of gay romances makes me see heterosexual romances as cooler?

+1

[Ryzaki]

SennenScale wrote...
Same for me! I thought Garrus was going down a dangerous road. Then ME2 and his loyalty mission happened and undid my efforts completely. If bioware can handle that, I don't quite get what is all the fuss about a character opening up to a dude.

 

Indeed. My poor Shepard was like...dude did we not just do this in ME1? Why am I doing this again with you? 

Me neither. Though I could live without Garrus. If people want to have their LIs to themselves whateves. Give me Joker (who no one has any claim on) and the new guy and I'll be set. 

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...


the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

I agree with this too, even though I fully support same-sex content. I think one or two options is plenty, no reason to send the devs into overload. That said there are a couple of characters I wouldn't scream "RETCON!" if they showed previously unrevealed bisexual tendencies. It would all depend on how it's written, to be honest.

about the anders thing, yes making him bi is a retcon, because that fact didnt exist until they rewrote him. was it a bad one? nah its fine, retcons dont automatically mean bad. i just dont think they did it correctly.


anders being bi was done poorly, not because he was bi, but because he it on you in a totally un-anders way. anders was very goofy and silly, if anders was bi and was all goofy hitting on me that woulda made sense, but he's like "i like you. we mages are great, i like you" and im like eep.


and seriously? im losing respect for both sides here, the hostility is disgusting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Anders and Justice two separate characters in Awakenings? I didn't play Origins, so I don't know who Anders was before DA2. I get the impression though that Anders has undergone a significant personality transformation as a result of fusing with Justice. I could easily see Justice's "fairness, equality, justice" character attribute informing Ander's "needy horndog" attribute to cause him to be a bisexual needy horndog. Just my opinion though. Did Anders and Justice fuse during the events of Awakenings? Or did that happen "off-screen"?

[JeffZero]

Clonedzero wrote...
 
and seriously? im losing respect for both sides here, the hostility is disgusting.

Always strive to lose respect not for the individuals on either side of a fence whose thoughts are not vile, but only for those whose are. There are plenty of decent people on this site, although there are days in which I feel the same as you do right now.

I knew this would explode one way or another. When sites like Kotaku are making articles based almost exclusively around some of the messaging board antics on the BSN, you know things are... noticeable. But really, I've met some great folks around these parts.

[AdmiralCheez]

Clonedzero wrote...

the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

Yep.  Really don't want over half the crew desperately seeking Shepard's cherry.  Creeps me the hell out.  Doesn't matter what gender they are or if I like them or not; there is such a thing as too much animal magnetism.

[JeffZero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

Yep.  Really don't want over half the crew desperately seeking Shepard's cherry.  Creeps me the hell out.  Doesn't matter what gender they are or if I like them or not; there is such a thing as too much animal magnetism.

Huh. I think that's the first time in years I've seen someone using the term "animal magnetism" and I wasn't on io9, wikipedia or attending a science-related course.

[Siansonea]

Ryzaki wrote...

SennenScale wrote...
Same for me! I thought Garrus was going down a dangerous road. Then ME2 and his loyalty mission happened and undid my efforts completely. If bioware can handle that, I don't quite get what is all the fuss about a character opening up to a dude.

 

Indeed. My poor Shepard was like...dude did we not just do this in ME1? Why am I doing this again with you? 

Me neither. Though I could live without Garrus. If people want to have their LIs to themselves whateves. Give me Joker (who no one has any claim on) and the new guy and I'll be set. 

My Infiltrator basically told Garrus to get bent in ME1, that he didn't need some turian shooting him in the back as he was hunting another turian. And he literally never talked to him again. Then in ME2 on Omega, Garrus is all "Shepard, OMG, brofist!" and Shepard's like "Garrus, OMG, brofist!" and I was like "what just happened here?"

Why aren't these retcons as reviled as somebody saying "oh yeah, I swing both ways, you mean you didn't know?"

Modifié par Siansonea II, 17 mai 2011 - 06:02 .

[Cartims]

In real life you could be working right next to a gay man/woman and not know it. Why , because not everyone exploits there sexuality, so can be said in games, just because they never said it doesn't mean they aren't. What difference does this make in your life anyway, don't play the gay character and you won't get the taint....but you will miss out on the best love making ever...just saying. *smile*

[Ryzaki]

Agreed that an all bi cast would be too much. Two m/m and f/f options would be great though. One could be a squaddie and the second someone on the normandy that doesn't do field work.

[Clonedzero]

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...


the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

I agree with this too, even though I fully support same-sex content. I think one or two options is plenty, no reason to send the devs into overload. That said there are a couple of characters I wouldn't scream "RETCON!" if they showed previously unrevealed bisexual tendencies. It would all depend on how it's written, to be honest.

about the anders thing, yes making him bi is a retcon, because that fact didnt exist until they rewrote him. was it a bad one? nah its fine, retcons dont automatically mean bad. i just dont think they did it correctly.


anders being bi was done poorly, not because he was bi, but because he it on you in a totally un-anders way. anders was very goofy and silly, if anders was bi and was all goofy hitting on me that woulda made sense, but he's like "i like you. we mages are great, i like you" and im like eep.


and seriously? im losing respect for both sides here, the hostility is disgusting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Anders and Justice two separate characters in Awakenings? I didn't play Origins, so I don't know who Anders was before DA2. I get the impression though that Anders has undergone a significant personality transformation as a result of fusing with Justice. I could easily see Justice's "fairness, equality, justice" character attribute informing Ander's "needy horndog" attribute to cause him to be a bisexual needy horndog. Just my opinion though. Did Anders and Justice fuse during the events of Awakenings? Or did that happen "off-screen"?

it happened off-screen. thats a big reason why people hated it. it'd be like Wrex getting a parasite race that burrowed into his skull and they fused conconiousnesses so his character was completely different and it happened OFF SCREEN.

anders becomign super lame reminds me of an old friend of mine who was a super cool chick, like one of the funniest people to hang out with, then she got into the whole global warming thing and she NEVER shut up about it, every conversation would end up in her leacturing everyone about being more "green" and stuff.

[Ryzaki]

 

Siansonea II wrote...
My Infiltrator basically told Garrus to get bent in ME1, that he didn't need some turian shooting him in the back as he was hunting another turian. Then in ME2 on Omega, Garrus is all "Shepard, OMG, brofist!" and Shepard's like "Garrus, OMG, brofist!" and I was like "what just happened here?"

Why aren't these retcons as reviled as somebody saying "oh yeah, I swing both ways, you mean you didn't know?"

Retcon is what happened. 

Because it's not gay Sia. Sad to say. As much as Anders character was retconned it's always his bisexuality that people hone in on nevermind the fact that its one of the few things that wasn't retconned. It always comes back to him being bi. Oh they'll mention his moodiness, willingness to merge with Justice, obsession but the bisexuality is always the biggest point. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2011 - 06:04 .

[bald man in a boat]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
... there is such a thing as too much animal magnetism.

NEVER!!!

[SennenScale]

Siansonea II wrote...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Anders and Justice two separate characters in Awakenings? I didn't play Origins, so I don't know who Anders was before DA2. I get the impression though that Anders has undergone a significant personality transformation as a result of fusing with Justice. I could easily see Justice's "fairness, equality, justice" character attribute informing Ander's "needy horndog" attribute to cause him to be a bisexual needy horndog. Just my opinion though. Did Anders and Justice fuse during the events of Awakenings? Or did that happen "off-screen"?

Happened offscreen.

Yes, they were separate, though there are two squad banters between Anders and Justice that foreshadow the possibility, as well as one with a character named Nathaniel and Justice.

Anders started goofy, silly, and selfish, but Justice tried to push him into getting involved with the mage's conflict. I see DA2 Anders being predominately Justice's influence.

[Fiery Phoenix]

centauri2002 wrote...

Can we drop the whole "making everyone bi" nonsense please? It's not going to happen in ME3. So let's just stay on-topic and discuss what we'd actually like to see done with the small amount of same sex options that are going to be added into the game.

Agreed.

My opinion--and I emphasize opinion--as to how this should play out is as follows.

First of all, let's assume the default ME3 love interests are (this means you can establish a relationship with them in ME3):

> Virmire Survivor
> Joker
> James Vega
> Liara
> Unannounced [human] female companion

Now, of the above, these are the the ones I believe should be bisexual and romantically accessible for both genders in ME3:

> James Vega
> Liara (obviously)
> Unannounced [human] female companion

Everyone else should stay the same.

Again, this is my opinion only, and I think it's a fair compromise and would make sense.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 17 mai 2011 - 06:08 .

[Sherbet Lemon]

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
 *snipped some tralalala*

anders being bi was done poorly, not because he was bi, but because he it on you in a totally un-anders way. anders was very goofy and silly, if anders was bi and was all goofy hitting on me that woulda made sense, but he's like "i like you. we mages are great, i like you" and im like eep.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Anders and Justice two separate characters in Awakenings? I didn't play Origins, so I don't know who Anders was before DA2. I get the impression though that Anders has undergone a significant personality transformation as a result of fusing with Justice. I could easily see Justice's "fairness, equality, justice" character attribute informing Ander's "needy horndog" attribute to cause him to be a bisexual needy horndog. Just my opinion though. Did Anders and Justice fuse during the events of Awakenings? Or did that happen "off-screen"?

Hahahah..double ninja'ed.

The events of Anders and Justice happened off-screen.  It was possible to not even recruit Anders in Awakening so yeah.  So far I've played only Lady Hawkes (I've watch Garrett Hawke/Anders romance on youtube) and he hits on a female Hawke the exact same way.  It's just about how intense and unhinged he has become since he merged with Justice.
Hahahaha...I think it's hilarious that Anders has crept his way into conversation.  He really is everywhere...

On the topic at hand:  I don't think everyone will be bi and all into Shepard either.  No more than usual anyways, she is pretty awesome.

Modifié par Village Idiot, 17 mai 2011 - 06:10 .