6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Can we drop the whole "making everyone bi" nonsense please? It's not going to happen in ME3. So let's just stay on-topic and discuss what we'd actually like to see done with the small amount of same sex options that are going to be added into the game.

Agreed.

My opinion--and I emphasize opinion--as to how this should play out is as follows.

First of all, let's assume the default ME3 love interests are (this means you can establish a relationship with them in ME3):

> Virmire Survivor
> Joker
> James Vega
> Liara
> Unannounced [human] female companion

Now, of the above, these are the the ones I believe should be bisexual and romantically accessible for both genders in ME3:

> James Vega
> Liara (obviously)
> Unannounced [human] female companion

Everyone else should stay the same.

Again, this is my opinion only, and I think it's a fair compromise and would make sense.

I see complaining about 2 f/f options and only 1 m/m. 

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...


the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

I agree with this too, even though I fully support same-sex content. I think one or two options is plenty, no reason to send the devs into overload. That said there are a couple of characters I wouldn't scream "RETCON!" if they showed previously unrevealed bisexual tendencies. It would all depend on how it's written, to be honest.

about the anders thing, yes making him bi is a retcon, because that fact didnt exist until they rewrote him. was it a bad one? nah its fine, retcons dont automatically mean bad. i just dont think they did it correctly.


anders being bi was done poorly, not because he was bi, but because he it on you in a totally un-anders way. anders was very goofy and silly, if anders was bi and was all goofy hitting on me that woulda made sense, but he's like "i like you. we mages are great, i like you" and im like eep.


and seriously? im losing respect for both sides here, the hostility is disgusting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Anders and Justice two separate characters in Awakenings? I didn't play Origins, so I don't know who Anders was before DA2. I get the impression though that Anders has undergone a significant personality transformation as a result of fusing with Justice. I could easily see Justice's "fairness, equality, justice" character attribute informing Ander's "needy horndog" attribute to cause him to be a bisexual needy horndog. Just my opinion though. Did Anders and Justice fuse during the events of Awakenings? Or did that happen "off-screen"?

it happened off-screen. thats a big reason why people hated it. it'd be like Wrex getting a parasite race that burrowed into his skull and they fused conconiousnesses so his character was completely different and it happened OFF SCREEN.

anders becomign super lame reminds me of an old friend of mine who was a super cool chick, like one of the funniest people to hang out with, then she got into the whole global warming thing and she NEVER shut up about it, every conversation would end up in her leacturing everyone about being more "green" and stuff.

Well, in this case I'd say that Anders is less of a retcon, and more of an "unfortunate character progression". Fusing with Justice isn't implausible, it just turned out to be a Really Bad Idea. That said, even though Anders is a complicated character that I don't always like (one of my mages REALLY didn't like him), I do appreciate the role he plays in the game. I don't have to like every character from a personal standpoint to concede that they bring a lot to the story. 

[JeffZero]

Ryzaki wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Can we drop the whole "making everyone bi" nonsense please? It's not going to happen in ME3. So let's just stay on-topic and discuss what we'd actually like to see done with the small amount of same sex options that are going to be added into the game.

Agreed.

My opinion--and I emphasize opinion--as to how this should play out is as follows.

First of all, let's assume the default ME3 love interests are (this means you can establish a relationship with them in ME3):

> Virmire Survivor
> Joker
> James Vega
> Liara
> Unannounced [human] female companion

Now, of the above, these are the the ones I believe should be bisexual and romantically accessible for both genders in ME3:

> James Vega
> Liara (obviously)
> Unannounced [human] female companion

Everyone else should stay the same.

Again, this is my opinion only, and I think it's a fair compromise and would make sense.

I see complaining about 2 f/f options and only 1 m/m. 

At which point I draw the line and tell those continually complaining to get over it. Bear in mind I still haven't even taken the "Fight for the Love" banner out of my signature because I have a tremendous pride for the fact that same-sex romance is becoming available for ME3. That said, see the first sentence.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...

(...)

I see complaining about 2 f/f options and only 1 m/m.

Technically, Liara doesn't count into this, as I'm referring mainly to humans. Consider Liara a hybrid between the two.

[Ryzaki]

JeffZero wrote...
At which point I draw the line and tell those continually complaining to get over it. Bear in mind I still haven't even taken the "Fight for the Love" banner out of my signature because I have a tremendous pride for the fact that same-sex romance is becoming available for ME3. That said, see the first sentence.

It's still in your signature. 

That said I see your point. If I have to be stuck with one option I'd prefer it to be someone Shepard has history with. 

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

(...)

I see complaining about 2 f/f options and only 1 m/m.

Technically, Liara doesn't count into this, as I'm referring mainly to humans. Consider Liara a hybrid between the two.

...Right that doesn't make it any better. But ah well wouldn't be the first time LIs were in favor of another party. But really in that case I would prefer Joker be the m/m option instead of the new guy. If Joker is to be an option for romance at all.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2011 - 06:15 .

[Fault Girl]

The issue with the VS being an option is that either one is already dead, and if you dont play ME1/2 I believe that the game (probably debunked now cos of the comic being on xbox now as well as PS3 so my point is probabaly invalid) picks the opposite gender so that might be the case in ME3 for new players unless they do a longer comic when even the ME1 choices are availiable.

So they risk that specific bi option may not feature in the game. If they are too include pre-exisitng PC's as the s/s option would they not make it someone who is more likely to be in the game?

Sorry if thats confusing or anything, someone else made a similar point, cant remember who but it was probably better written.

Modifié par ZombieGeisha, 17 mai 2011 - 06:14 .

[Siansonea]

JeffZero wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Can we drop the whole "making everyone bi" nonsense please? It's not going to happen in ME3. So let's just stay on-topic and discuss what we'd actually like to see done with the small amount of same sex options that are going to be added into the game.

Agreed.

My opinion--and I emphasize opinion--as to how this should play out is as follows.

First of all, let's assume the default ME3 love interests are (this means you can establish a relationship with them in ME3):

> Virmire Survivor
> Joker
> James Vega
> Liara
> Unannounced [human] female companion

Now, of the above, these are the the ones I believe should be bisexual and romantically accessible for both genders in ME3:

> James Vega
> Liara (obviously)
> Unannounced [human] female companion

Everyone else should stay the same.

Again, this is my opinion only, and I think it's a fair compromise and would make sense.

I see complaining about 2 f/f options and only 1 m/m. 

At which point I draw the line and tell those continually complaining to get over it. Bear in mind I still haven't even taken the "Fight for the Love" banner out of my signature because I have a tremendous pride for the fact that same-sex romance is becoming available for ME3. That said, see the first sentence.

I wouldn't quibble over two f/f options if one of them is an alien. After all, mono-gendered male aliens would die off in one generation, so there really is no way to have an exact equivalent to the asari for m/m. 

[HunterX6]

Xerxes52 wrote...

I'm fine with Bioware creating new LIs for s/s romances, but don't rewrite existing LIs, and allow the player to initiate the romance (with a clearly marked option).

I 100% agree with you.

[Clonedzero]

Ryzaki wrote...

 

Siansonea II wrote...
My Infiltrator basically told Garrus to get bent in ME1, that he didn't need some turian shooting him in the back as he was hunting another turian. Then in ME2 on Omega, Garrus is all "Shepard, OMG, brofist!" and Shepard's like "Garrus, OMG, brofist!" and I was like "what just happened here?"

Why aren't these retcons as reviled as somebody saying "oh yeah, I swing both ways, you mean you didn't know?"

Retcon is what happened. 

Because it's not gay Sia. Sad to say. As much as Anders character was retconned it's always his bisexuality that people hone in on nevermind the fact that its one of the few things that wasn't retconned. It always comes back to him being bi. Oh they'll mention his moodiness, willingness to merge with Justice, obsession but the bisexuality is always the biggest point. 

actually im the dude complaining about all the other stuff. him being bi (while i think its a retcon) is sorta fitting for his old silly playful personality. so it suited his character fairly well, well his old character. i couldnt imagine wanting to romance him, he was such a downer lol

[The Narrator]

didn't they announce no new LIs?

and if they make already straight characters gay.. Yay a ruined garrus jack and jacob...

Modifié par The Narrator, 17 mai 2011 - 06:17 .

[ipgd]

Clonedzero wrote...

the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

about the anders thing, yes making him bi is a retcon, because that fact didnt exist until they rewrote him. was it a bad one? nah its fine, retcons dont automatically mean bad. i just dont think they did it correctly.

A retcon is a direct, contradictory change to an established fact. If Sally is shown going to the store, and then later on it is stated she never actually went to the store in the first place, that is a retcon. If Sally is shown at work, then shown at home, and then later says she also went to the store or is shown to have gone to the store on her way home, that is not a retcon. That is an addition to the continuity that is not contradictory to any actual established fact (you may have previously assumed she went straight home after work, but that is an assumption).

Anders's sexuality change is not a retcon because it is not contradictory to any established facts. If Anders were shown to be exclusively homosexual after expressing an attraction to women in Awakening, that would be a retcon, but he was not. If Anders were shown to have interest in men after explicitly expressing that he did not have any interest in men, that would be a retcon, but he was not. Anders expressed interest in women, which was not contradicted in DA2, and established no indication whatsoever as to how he felt about men. You may have assumed that Anders was heterosexual, but that is an assumption, not a fact of the continuity.

His sexuality is likely a change (at least on a metagame level), but it is not a retcon, because nothing in the continuity is actually being directly contradicted. Because it was never actually established.

If every change in a story that was not planned from the very beginning were considered a retcon every goddamn thing that ever happens ever would be a retcon.

Modifié par ipgd, 17 mai 2011 - 06:17 .

[Ryzaki]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

The issue with the VS being an option is that either one is already dead, and if you dont play ME1/2 I believe that the game (probably debunked now cos of the comic being on xbox now as well as PS3 so my point is probabaly invalid) picks the opposite gender so that might be the case in ME3 for new players unless they do a longer comic when even the ME1 choices are availiable.

So they risk that specific bi option may not feature in the game. If they are too include pre-exisitng PC's as the s/s option would they not make it someone who is more likely to be in the game?

Sorry if thats confusing or anything, someone else made a similar point, cant remember who but it was probably better written.

I think there's gonna be a ME3 Gensis style comic. You'll probably get to choose the VS with it. 

[Jademoon121]

Still debating? The m/m LI is in, and whoever it is, he'll be well written.

[Clonedzero]

ipgd wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

about the anders thing, yes making him bi is a retcon, because that fact didnt exist until they rewrote him. was it a bad one? nah its fine, retcons dont automatically mean bad. i just dont think they did it correctly.

A retcon is a direct, contradictory change to an established fact. If Sally is shown going to the store, and then later on it is stated she never actually went to the store in the first place, that is a retcon. If Sally is shown at work, then shown at home, and then later says she also went to the store or is shown to have gone to the store on her way home, that is not a retcon. That is an addition to the continuity that is not contradictory to any actual established fact (you may have previously assumed she went straight home after work, but that is an assumption).

Anders's sexuality change is not a retcon because it is not contradictory to any established facts. If Anders were shown to be exclusively homosexual after expressing an attraction to women in Awakening, that would be a retcon, but he was not. If Anders were shown to have interest in men after explicitly expressing that he did not have any interest in men, that would be a retcon, but he was not. Anders expressed interest in women, which was not contradicted in DA2, and established no indication whatsoever as to how he felt about men. You may have assumed that Anders was heterosexual, but that is an assumption, not a fact of the continuity.

His sexuality is likely a change (at least on a metagame level), but it is not a retcon, because nothing in the continuity is actually being directly contradicted.

If every change in a story that was not planned from the very beginning were considered a retcon every goddamn thing that ever happens ever would be a retcon.

you need to chill dude, seriously lol

[Ryzaki]

ipgd wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

about the anders thing, yes making him bi is a retcon, because that fact didnt exist until they rewrote him. was it a bad one? nah its fine, retcons dont automatically mean bad. i just dont think they did it correctly.

A retcon is a direct, contradictory change to an established fact. If Sally is shown going to the store, and then later on it is stated she never actually went to the store in the first place, that is a retcon. If Sally is shown at work, then shown at home, and then later says she also went to the store or is shown to have gone to the store on her way home, that is not a retcon. That is an addition to the continuity that is not contradictory to any actual established fact (you may have previously assumed she went straight home after work, but that is an assumption).

Anders's sexuality change is not a retcon because it is not contradictory to any established facts. If Anders were shown to be exclusively homosexual after expressing an attraction to women in Awakening, that would be a retcon, but he was not. If Anders were shown to have interest in men after explicitly expressing that he did not have any interest in men, that would be a retcon, but he was not. Anders expressed interest in women, which was not contradicted in DA2, and established no indication whatsoever as to how he felt about men. You may have assumed that Anders was heterosexual, but that is an assumption, not a fact of the continuity.

His sexuality is likely a change (at least on a metagame level), but it is not a retcon, because nothing in the continuity is actually being directly contradicted. Because it was never actually established.

If every change in a story that was not planned from the very beginning were considered a retcon every goddamn thing that ever happens ever would be a retcon.

Thank you. I could kiss you right now. 

[ipgd]

Clonedzero wrote...

you need to chill dude, seriously lol

I... am? If I were being angry or hostile you would know.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Siansonea II wrote...

(...)

I wouldn't quibble over two f/f options if one of them is an alien. After all, mono-gendered male aliens would die off in one generation, so there really is no way to have an exact equivalent to the asari for m/m. 

In other words, you agree with my distribution?

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Asari are Monosexual. They have nor female, neither male gender (Although they look like females). In other words, They're not Bisexual either.
And about this new system, It can be released as another exe format in game directory or as a free patch.
Doesn't it solve all the problems between users?

[ADLegend21]

Clonedzero wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

about the anders thing, yes making him bi is a retcon, because that fact didnt exist until they rewrote him. was it a bad one? nah its fine, retcons dont automatically mean bad. i just dont think they did it correctly.

A retcon is a direct, contradictory change to an established fact. If Sally is shown going to the store, and then later on it is stated she never actually went to the store in the first place, that is a retcon. If Sally is shown at work, then shown at home, and then later says she also went to the store or is shown to have gone to the store on her way home, that is not a retcon. That is an addition to the continuity that is not contradictory to any actual established fact (you may have previously assumed she went straight home after work, but that is an assumption).

Anders's sexuality change is not a retcon because it is not contradictory to any established facts. If Anders were shown to be exclusively homosexual after expressing an attraction to women in Awakening, that would be a retcon, but he was not. If Anders were shown to have interest in men after explicitly expressing that he did not have any interest in men, that would be a retcon, but he was not. Anders expressed interest in women, which was not contradicted in DA2, and established no indication whatsoever as to how he felt about men. You may have assumed that Anders was heterosexual, but that is an assumption, not a fact of the continuity.

His sexuality is likely a change (at least on a metagame level), but it is not a retcon, because nothing in the continuity is actually being directly contradicted.

If every change in a story that was not planned from the very beginning were considered a retcon every goddamn thing that ever happens ever would be a retcon.

you need to chill dude, seriously lol

He needs to Chill from being right? hahah you're funny.

[JeffZero]

ipgd wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

you need to chill dude, seriously lol

I... am? If I were being angry or hostile you would know.

You weren't being angry or hostile. You were stating the full-fledged definition to the term "retcon", a statement that needs to be made from time to time around here. I approve.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Man, I came here to yell at people about the definition of the retcon, and someone already did it... quite well.

Hurrah!

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 17 mai 2011 - 06:23 .

[TomY90]

I wouldn't say no to a wider choice of options but I very much doubt it because they have pretty much said it that they will not be adding any more romance options and I think they know fans would not want out of nowhere characters you know and love (as characters not LI's) who are the same sex as you (apart from ascari) express feelings for you out of the blue.