6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Garbage Master wrote...

Asari are Monosexual. They have nor female, neither male gender (Although they look like females). In other words, They're not Bisexual either.
And about this new system, It can be released as another exe format in game directory or as a free patch.
Doesn't it solve all the problems between users?

If I have to download it and waste time and bandwidth I want everyone bisexual. That's the only way I'll agree to some free patch. 

[Fault Girl]

Ryzaki wrote...


I think there's gonna be a ME3 Gensis style comic. You'll probably get to choose the VS with it. 

You're probably right, that intro going to loooonnngggg

the whole s/s argument will be fine if it's like maybe 2 pre-existing and some new. The case of this thread is that everyone should agree to disagree.

Always going to be people who aren't comfortable but I do understand the points of the opposition but then straight people (like me) always have options, so people should try and have some empathy to people who haven't had the options previously.

[Centauri2002]

Garbage Master wrote...

Asari are Monosexual. They have nor female, neither male gender (Although they look like females). In other words, They're not Bisexual either.
And about this new system, It can be released as another exe format in game directory or as a free patch.
Doesn't it solve all the problems between users?

Mono means one, not none. Their sex is female. They have no gender. (Bisexuality doesn't even relate to this. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with an individual's sex. Even though you're right, they're not bisexual. They're more pansexual.)

If I had a penny for each of the times I had to explain this... >.>

I think separating out the bisexual elements from the rest of the game is a tad insulting. And it would give the ME team even more work to do.

Modifié par centauri2002, 17 mai 2011 - 06:28 .

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

 

Siansonea II wrote...
My Infiltrator basically told Garrus to get bent in ME1, that he didn't need some turian shooting him in the back as he was hunting another turian. Then in ME2 on Omega, Garrus is all "Shepard, OMG, brofist!" and Shepard's like "Garrus, OMG, brofist!" and I was like "what just happened here?"

Why aren't these retcons as reviled as somebody saying "oh yeah, I swing both ways, you mean you didn't know?"

Retcon is what happened. 

Because it's not gay Sia. Sad to say. As much as Anders character was retconned it's always his bisexuality that people hone in on nevermind the fact that its one of the few things that wasn't retconned. It always comes back to him being bi. Oh they'll mention his moodiness, willingness to merge with Justice, obsession but the bisexuality is always the biggest point. 

actually im the dude complaining about all the other stuff. him being bi (while i think its a retcon) is sorta fitting for his old silly playful personality. so it suited his character fairly well, well his old character. i couldnt imagine wanting to romance him, he was such a downer lol

I wish we could stop saying Anders' sexuality is a retcon, because Awakenings Anders isn't in DA2. It's Anders/Justice, a hybrid personality. It's perfectly plausible that Anders/Justice has a slightly different take on sexuality than carefree Awakenings Anders. "Retcon" is a portmanteau of Retroactive Continuity, in other words, changing past events in a narrative to fit a current event in a narrative. In this instance, the DA2 story wasn't implying that Anders was always bisexual, and from what I've seen, the "evidence" that Anders was previously exclusively heterosexual in Awakenings is mainly a matter of perception, and him not overtly proclaiming in no uncertain terms that he was bisexual. Therefore, the thinking is, he was automatically heterosexual. I think that's bogus logic. And the fact is that merging with a Fade creature could affect his sexuality, but that is a topic I have never seen discussed. People seem to feel that in spite of that event DA2 Anders should still sexually be Awakenings Anders, and that is a complete blind spot and a deliberate misdirection in some cases, I think.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 17 mai 2011 - 06:26 .

[TheKillerAngel]

Some of you should probably look up what the argument from ignorance is. It is a logical fallacy to contend that a proposition is necessarily true because it has not been proven false (or vice versa).

[The Narrator]

Ryzaki wrote...

Garbage Master wrote...

Asari are Monosexual. They have nor female, neither male gender (Although they look like females). In other words, They're not Bisexual either.
And about this new system, It can be released as another exe format in game directory or as a free patch.
Doesn't it solve all the problems between users?

If I have to download it and waste time and bandwidth I want everyone bisexual. That's the only way I'll agree to some free patch. 

or you could not download the patch when they release it instead of nit picking.

its obviously not like our opinion matters anymore, there just going for bigger and bigger demographics, and bioware has the group spawned by the educated generation in their pocket.

[HunterX6]

Clonedzero wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

the only issue i have with making everyone bi, is its really really really weird how EVERYONE wants you. i wouldnt even mind a male character hitting on my male shepard as long as it was a new character (so it would make sense that way)

about the anders thing, yes making him bi is a retcon, because that fact didnt exist until they rewrote him. was it a bad one? nah its fine, retcons dont automatically mean bad. i just dont think they did it correctly.

A retcon is a direct, contradictory change to an established fact. If Sally is shown going to the store, and then later on it is stated she never actually went to the store in the first place, that is a retcon. If Sally is shown at work, then shown at home, and then later says she also went to the store or is shown to have gone to the store on her way home, that is not a retcon. That is an addition to the continuity that is not contradictory to any actual established fact (you may have previously assumed she went straight home after work, but that is an assumption).

Anders's sexuality change is not a retcon because it is not contradictory to any established facts. If Anders were shown to be exclusively homosexual after expressing an attraction to women in Awakening, that would be a retcon, but he was not. If Anders were shown to have interest in men after explicitly expressing that he did not have any interest in men, that would be a retcon, but he was not. Anders expressed interest in women, which was not contradicted in DA2, and established no indication whatsoever as to how he felt about men. You may have assumed that Anders was heterosexual, but that is an assumption, not a fact of the continuity.

His sexuality is likely a change (at least on a metagame level), but it is not a retcon, because nothing in the continuity is actually being directly contradicted.

If every change in a story that was not planned from the very beginning were considered a retcon every goddamn thing that ever happens ever would be a retcon.

you need to chill dude, seriously lol

lol I thought the same, he gave a speech as big as a sermon of the bible or something  Its kind of fun seeing all these people making a party and talking crazy and weird things here over a game. Though other are very non-human,uncivilized disturbing....

[Praetor Knight]

ugh, why must we spoil DAII.

I don't have it yet and now I know about Anders/Justice : (

[Ryzaki]

The Narrator wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Garbage Master wrote...

Asari are Monosexual. They have nor female, neither male gender (Although they look like females). In other words, They're not Bisexual either.
And about this new system, It can be released as another exe format in game directory or as a free patch.
Doesn't it solve all the problems between users?

If I have to download it and waste time and bandwidth I want everyone bisexual. That's the only way I'll agree to some free patch. 

or you could not download the patch when they release it instead of nit picking.

its obviously not like our opinion matters anymore, there just going for bigger and bigger demographics, and bioware has the group spawned by the educated generation in their pocket.

Or it could not be in a patch and you could just ignore the content since it'll be optional. 

See how that works?  

Why should I compromise with you when you won't do the same? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2011 - 06:30 .

[ipgd]

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

 

Siansonea II wrote...
My Infiltrator basically told Garrus to get bent in ME1, that he didn't need some turian shooting him in the back as he was hunting another turian. Then in ME2 on Omega, Garrus is all "Shepard, OMG, brofist!" and Shepard's like "Garrus, OMG, brofist!" and I was like "what just happened here?"

Why aren't these retcons as reviled as somebody saying "oh yeah, I swing both ways, you mean you didn't know?"

Retcon is what happened. 

Because it's not gay Sia. Sad to say. As much as Anders character was retconned it's always his bisexuality that people hone in on nevermind the fact that its one of the few things that wasn't retconned. It always comes back to him being bi. Oh they'll mention his moodiness, willingness to merge with Justice, obsession but the bisexuality is always the biggest point. 

actually im the dude complaining about all the other stuff. him being bi (while i think its a retcon) is sorta fitting for his old silly playful personality. so it suited his character fairly well, well his old character. i couldnt imagine wanting to romance him, he was such a downer lol

I wish we could stop saying Anders' sexuality is a retcon, because Awakenings Anders isn't in DA2. It's Anders/Justice, a hybrid personality. It's perfectly plausible that Anders/Justice has a slightly different take on sexuality than carefree Awakenings Anders. "Retcon" is a portmanteau of Retroactive Continuity, in other words, changing past events in a narrative to fit a current event in a narrative. In this instance, the DA2 story wasn't implying that Anders was always bisexual, and from what I've seen, the "evidence" that Anders was previously exclusively heterosexual in Awakenings is mainly a matter of perception, and him not overtly proclaiming in no uncertain terms that he was bisexual. Therefore, the thinking is, he was automatically heterosexual. I think that's bogus logic. And the fact is that merging with a Fade creature could affect his sexuality, but that is a topic I have never seen discussed. People seem to feel that in spite of that event DA2 Anders should still sexually be Awakenings Anders, and that is a complete blind spot and a deliberate misdirection in some cases, I think.

He's established to have had a relationship with a man prior to his merger with Justice (i.e. Karl) so that is unlikely.

[The Narrator]

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

 

Siansonea II wrote...
My Infiltrator basically told Garrus to get bent in ME1, that he didn't need some turian shooting him in the back as he was hunting another turian. Then in ME2 on Omega, Garrus is all "Shepard, OMG, brofist!" and Shepard's like "Garrus, OMG, brofist!" and I was like "what just happened here?"

Why aren't these retcons as reviled as somebody saying "oh yeah, I swing both ways, you mean you didn't know?"

Retcon is what happened. 

Because it's not gay Sia. Sad to say. As much as Anders character was retconned it's always his bisexuality that people hone in on nevermind the fact that its one of the few things that wasn't retconned. It always comes back to him being bi. Oh they'll mention his moodiness, willingness to merge with Justice, obsession but the bisexuality is always the biggest point. 

actually im the dude complaining about all the other stuff. him being bi (while i think its a retcon) is sorta fitting for his old silly playful personality. so it suited his character fairly well, well his old character. i couldnt imagine wanting to romance him, he was such a downer lol

I wish we could stop saying Anders' sexuality is a retcon, because Awakenings Anders isn't in DA2. It's Anders/Justice, a hybrid personality.

so by merging a sarcastic heterosexual rebellious wizard, with a Spirit with no sexual feelings or physical attatchments bent on justice and truth at any cost.

makes a homosexual.

Makes perfect sense.

[Paragon Gabriel]

So let me get this straight (gay or bi or wathever). People are whining about all the LI being bi? Okay this argument is going over most of the people here in this thread. I hardly doubt the ME team will do anything what the DA team did with DA2. Current LIs stays straight, so stop complaining.

[SennenScale]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Some of you should probably look up what the argument from ignorance is. It is a logical fallacy to contend that a proposition is necessarily true because it has not been proven false (or vice versa).

Not  what is being argued. It is being aruged that because we were not given a declarative statement whether Anders is or is not into dudes, we cannot say definitively what he feels about dudes. All we can say from awakenings is that he does like women, and if DA2 contradicted that, that would be a retcon.

[Rinji the Bearded]

The Narrator wrote...

so by merging a sarcastic heterosexual rebellious wizard, with a Spirit with no sexual feelings or physical attatchments bent on justice and truth at any cost.

makes a homosexual.

Makes perfect sense.

1) Anders was bisexual before merging with Justice
2) He is bisexual

Makes sense to me.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Honestly, a lot of bisexual people learn to talk primarily about their heterosexual interests, to avoid the confusion/complication of having to talk about their bisexuality with complete strangers. I know a girl who is bi but dates dudes primarily, and a lot of people don't know she's bi. If you take her to see Iron Man she'll be squeeing about Robert Downey Jr. and she might not say a word about Gwyneth Paltrow, because the fact that she also likes chicks is complicated and none of your darn business.

So I can see Anders getting used to talking about girls openly and not talking about his interest in guys until he meets a guy he actually likes... at that point, it comes up.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 17 mai 2011 - 06:35 .

[ipgd]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

at that point, it comes up.

[The Narrator]

We are all gonna use these debates as metaphors for when entertainment companies use politics to gain demographics.

[SennenScale]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

ugh, why must we spoil DAII.

I don't have it yet and now I know about Anders/Justice : (

Apologies. The discussion got out of hand. However, if it makes you feel better, you will learn it very early on anyway.

[Siansonea]

The Narrator wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

 

Siansonea II wrote...
My Infiltrator basically told Garrus to get bent in ME1, that he didn't need some turian shooting him in the back as he was hunting another turian. Then in ME2 on Omega, Garrus is all "Shepard, OMG, brofist!" and Shepard's like "Garrus, OMG, brofist!" and I was like "what just happened here?"

Why aren't these retcons as reviled as somebody saying "oh yeah, I swing both ways, you mean you didn't know?"

Retcon is what happened. 

Because it's not gay Sia. Sad to say. As much as Anders character was retconned it's always his bisexuality that people hone in on nevermind the fact that its one of the few things that wasn't retconned. It always comes back to him being bi. Oh they'll mention his moodiness, willingness to merge with Justice, obsession but the bisexuality is always the biggest point. 

actually im the dude complaining about all the other stuff. him being bi (while i think its a retcon) is sorta fitting for his old silly playful personality. so it suited his character fairly well, well his old character. i couldnt imagine wanting to romance him, he was such a downer lol

I wish we could stop saying Anders' sexuality is a retcon, because Awakenings Anders isn't in DA2. It's Anders/Justice, a hybrid personality.

so by merging a sarcastic heterosexual rebellious wizard, with a Spirit with no sexual feelings or physical attatchments bent on justice and truth at any cost.

makes a homosexual.

Makes perfect sense.

My female Hawke that romanced Anders was completely unaware that Anders was a homosexual when they were having sex. Oh, did you mean to say bisexual? 

(P.S.: Can somebody else draw the This Is Gay, This Is Straight, This Is Bisexual diagram? I've already done it too many times)

And I'm still not satisfied that Anders declared himself to be exclusively heterosexual at any point in the game. Did he tell the Warden or whoever that he wasn't into boys as well as girls? Because I haven't seen that video.

[Ryzaki]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

ugh, why must we spoil DAII.

I don't have it yet and now I know about Anders/Justice : (

Sorry! 

[James2912]

Gabriel the First wrote...

So let me get this straight (gay or bi or wathever). People are whining about all the LI being bi? Okay this argument is going over most of the people here in this thread. I hardly doubt the ME team will do anything what the DA team did with DA2. Current LIs stays straight, so stop complaining.

I agree, we now some bi gay/LIs in the game. According to hudson's tweet it won't be the like DA in that everyone turns gay. Not everyone needs to be bi or gay in the effin game. Its like when I split my turkey sandwich with my dog and he keeps begging. Be happy with what you got! I have deeply sympathized with the community in wanting to have same sex LI's. I am very happy they got that, but if you guys keep pushing and complaining your going to be known as the new Talimancers! 

[Clonedzero]

well i wish people would stop suggesting unless its specifically stated in a game that its wrong to assume a person is straight based off evidence of them being attracted to the opposite sex and showing absolutely zero signs of being attracted to the same sex. its pretty safe to assume they're straight.

because then, uh, everyone in just about every character in every story sexuality could be in question and thats silly. characters sexual orientation shouldnt "up in the air" simply because they didnt specifically proclaim themselves one. it should be fairly obvious, if its not then its a poorly written character.

[Cartims]

I once was with a woman who was divorced and had 2 children, I guess she didn't know her sexuality was already predefined and couldn't be with me....gee, I'm glad she didn't know.....wonderful times indeed...just saying.

[Clonedzero]

Cartims wrote...

I once was with a woman who was divorced and had 2 children, I guess she didn't know her sexuality was already predefined and couldn't be with me....gee, I'm glad she didn't know.....wonderful times indeed...just saying.

most big problems in peoples lives have pretty anti-climatic solutions that'd be boring and lame in a story.
100% realism isnt always best lol

[ipgd]

James2912 wrote...

I am very happy they got that, but if you guys keep pushing and complaining your going to be known as the new Talimancers! 

Come on, we're not this bad.

Clonedzero wrote...

well i wish people would stop suggesting unless its specifically stated in a game that its wrong to assume a person is straight based off evidence of them being attracted to the opposite sex and showing absolutely zero signs of being attracted to the same sex. its pretty safe to assume they're straight.

because then, uh, everyone in just about every character in every story sexuality could be in question and thats silly. characters sexual orientation shouldnt "up in the air" simply because they didnt specifically proclaim themselves one. it should be fairly obvious, if its not then its a poorly written character.

It's not wrong. It's a reasonable assumption. It's still an assumption, though. And not a retcon, because that word has a specific definition which is not "any change I don't like", however much people seem to enjoy using it that way.