6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

SennenScale wrote...

The Narrator wrote...

how long have you been a fan?

Excuse me? Bioware's had S/S romances for a while. 

Hell the first game I recall with m/m romances was BW's Jade Empire. I didn't know it had them either. I was just crusing through BB saw the game, thought the art looked pretty, bought it (and god did BB rip me off. 50 bucks? Plus tax? ARGH. Worst I saw it was 40 bucks at GS but whateves.) and took it home and popped it in. 

Got hooked after that. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2011 - 07:01 .

[bald man in a boat]

[JetsoverEverything]

how about we fight for the right be a complete player ad be able to plow multiple love interest at one time? huh huh oh wait it wont happen

[James2912]

Walrusninja wrote...

If Wrex is gay or something, that would make no sense whatsoever. As has been said, the Krogan are very matter-of-fact about relationships and very practical, it's not some soppy fan-fiction. The Krogan just wouldn't even get into this sort of conversation, it would be utterly our of character.

I agree. I don't want any krogan romances! hetero or otherwise!!! Joker is with effing EDI do not make him romancable!  I honestly don't care which way the aliens  go that are currently romancable, I would never romance a Turian for example,  one word eww! Tali and Liara should be able to go both ways because there aliens. But don't make Grunt or Wrex into LI's for godsakes. Too much energy is going into romance options anyways. I hope it doesn't detract from the game as it is. 

[JetsoverEverything]

bald man in a boat wrote...

lol

[Clonedzero]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. People are now saying Joker's obviously straight because he was listening to porn with a woman in it. *sighs*

Good grief.

its a pretty safe assumption though. whats so bad about going "oh he's obviously into women i guess he's straight". theres no indication he's bi so why would they think that?

always assuming people are bi just because they dont say they arent is well dumb.

its using logic.

man A shows interest in women. he also shows zero signs of being interested in men.
logical conclusion? he is straight.

man B shows interest in women. he also shows interest in men.
logical conclusion? he is bi.

man C shows no interest in women. he shows interest in men.
logical conclusion? he is gay.

all of those are completely reasonable and logical. will it be accurate every single time? nah but for a vast majority of the time its a same way to figure it out.

[ipgd]

Clonedzero wrote...

they ruined anders character by completely and utterly changing his personality. through retcon or just a bad story arch does it really matter? his character was ruined.

:|

His character wasn't ruined. His character in Awakening was specifically created to inform the tragedy of his character arc in 2 (go reread Justice's banters with Anders, Nathaniel and Velanna). Awakening Anders exists so you can understand how much better off both he and Justice were before they merged.

If you think about it beyond They Changed It Now It Sucks, his arc is very well done.

[M-Sinistrari]

Figure I might as well throw in a new curve to the pattern of thread uzumaki to have something different to discuss.

Enough's been brought up in thread as evidence of characters having one proclivity or another, with often the same evidence being used as backup for both opposing views. This is pretty much just showing our own internal bias that we're going to fill in gaps/interpretations along our own worldview.

With that said, I wonder how much temper flying around from both sides is more a matter of implying 'You're not reading the characters right.' than a matter of orientations.

Case in point, I've repeatedly said around the forums that the Garrus/Tali romance shift makes absolutely no sense to me. With how many playthroughs I've done on both games, it does feel to me like something spackled in and limits my Sheps dialogs with them since I don't want a romance with them. Now to a Garrus fan or a Talimancer, I must be clearly blind to not see the little innuendos they do. Really, I could sit down with one of them at a table and go over every bit in game with them pointing and saying "SEE!" and I'm still not going to see what they do, even elaborating how we respectively see things will likely result in each of us thinking the other's crazy.

Now, does my not seeing what they do just mean my perspective's different or am I misinterpreting? The first is common to everyone, the second implies that I'm wrong.

Everyone doesn't like it when they're wrong on something, but just having a differing perspective is something that we can engage in thoughtful discussion on. I think part of the temper flarings going on in the thread is from the presuming people are interpreting wrong than just having a differing perspective.

[Ryzaki]

Clonedzero wrote...
its a pretty safe assumption though. whats so bad about going "oh he's obviously into women i guess he's straight". theres no indication he's bi so why would they think that?

always assuming people are bi just because they dont say they arent is well dumb.

its using logic.

man A shows interest in women. he also shows zero signs of being interested in men.
logical conclusion? he is straight.

man B shows interest in women. he also shows interest in men.
logical conclusion? he is bi.

man C shows no interest in women. he shows interest in men.
logical conclusion? he is gay.

all of those are completely reasonable and logical. will it be accurate every single time? nah but for a vast majority of the time its a same way to figure it out.

Saying it's okay to make X assumption but not Y isn't very well...you shouldn't be calling anyone dumb. You know what they say about assumptions... And yes it maybe right most of the time but it can also be wrong. It being wrong doesn't mean the character was retconned. Just means you were wrong. If you think someone's a decent person but they were killing little children and eating their bodies all along their character didn't change just because you discovered the truth. They were like that the whole time. 

I get why people would assume he's straight. I just don't get the assumption that he *can't* be bisexual. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2011 - 07:09 .

[bald man in a boat]

This thread is funny.

Modifié par bald man in a boat, 17 mai 2011 - 07:05 .

[Clonedzero]

ipgd wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

they ruined anders character by completely and utterly changing his personality. through retcon or just a bad story arch does it really matter? his character was ruined.

:|

His character wasn't ruined. His character in Awakening was specifically created to inform the tragedy of his character arc in 2 (go reread Justice's banters with Anders, Nathaniel and Velanna). Awakening Anders exists so you can understand how much better off both he and Justice were before they merged.

If you think about it beyond They Changed It Now It Sucks, his arc is very well done.

its not a "they changed it now it sucks" deal. its a "it was horribly executed and stupid" deal. my opinion, not yours. dont tell me what to think.

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...


well i wish people would stop suggesting unless its specifically stated in a game that its wrong to assume a person is straight based off evidence of them being attracted to the opposite sex and showing absolutely zero signs of being attracted to the same sex. its pretty safe to assume they're straight.


because then, uh, everyone in just about every character in every story sexuality could be in question and thats silly. characters sexual orientation shouldnt "up in the air" simply because they didnt specifically proclaim themselves one. it should be fairly obvious, if its not then its a poorly written character.

Poor writing *needle scratch* poor writing *needle scratch* poor writing *needle scratch*


So, Willow from Buffy The Vampire Slayer is a "poorly written character"? And since when is the quality of writing an empirical absolute? Last I heard it was a subjective value judgement. From what it sounds like, if a character changes in any way from their initial incarnation, then it's poor writing. They should be completely static. To me, THAT is poor writing.


Annnnd, you didn't address my "retcon" comments regarding Anders. How is it a retcon if Anders literally isn't the same Anders due to fusing his personality with a Fade creature?

ive never seen enough Buffy you answer that. so i cant really say either way.

It's a great show. Fair warning though, the characters grow and change over the course of the series. They also age. You might consider that poor writing *needle scratch* retcon *needle scratch* poor writing *needle scratch*

and all im saying, is you cant go "well all these people could be bi! they never said they werent!" its ridiculous. sure very specific examples might be an exception, but theres exceptions to every rule. are you saying every character in every storys sexuality is in question unless they specifically state their sexual orientation? its silly and stupid.

You can say "all these people could be bi because they never said they weren't". Because it's TRUE. It would be an enormous statistical improbability if Kaidan, Ashley, Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Joker, Kelly, Dr. Chakwas, Captain Anderson, Ambassador Udina and every other human in the ME universe were all sitting around a table saying "OMG, you're bi? Me too!" "Me too!" "Me too!" etc. Yes, that is ridiculous. Aliens? Who knows if bisexuality is even rare among their species? No telling.


And I am saying that unless a person identifies their sexual orientation, you can't assume they're heterosexual just because they haven't said otherwise. If you do that in real life, you will be wrong sometimes. You could be wrong sometimes in a game too.

i didnt address retcon stuff about anders because i dont care. him being bi isnt really a big deal, it never bothered me. and of course its a retcon if anders is litterally isnt the same anders anymore. especially if it happens off screen. well maybe retcon isnt even the right term for it, who cares? its semantics. they ruined anders character by completely and utterly changing his personality. through retcon or just a bad story arch does it really matter? his character was ruined.

Well, I'm glad you understand what the word "retcon" means. *sarcasm* How about any time you're tempted to misuse "retcon" (hint: it doesn't mean "bad story idea") you use "bad story idea" instead? That would be a lot more clear, and would avoid the use of the known weasel word "retcon".

[bald man in a boat]

Is this the DA forum? I'm so confused....

[The Narrator]

ipgd wrote...

The Narrator wrote...

but then theres DA2 where he doesn't give a **** and flirts, and thats after getting merged with a spirit of justice lol

Hawke pings his gaydar, perhaps not always accurately. Boulton makes a pretty fabulous queen.

He also immediately appologizes after he does it and asks if it makes you uncomfortable. If you ask him to, he stops.

yeah but he gets really offended.

and, It blows your argument out of the water.

just admit it, they changed the character to fill the role they needed.

[Siansonea]

bald man in a boat wrote...

I so <3 Burton Guster. 

[James2912]

bald man in a boat wrote...

Is this the DA forum? I'm so confused....

I know stop talking about DA! THIS IS MASS EFFECT!!!!!!!!!!

[Cartims]

The contradiction in this thread is mind boggling....

S/S Relations are here to STAY....in gaming and in the real world...DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!.....And I would never screw a Krogan, gay or otherwise...it's called CHOICE!!!

[Siansonea]

Clonedzero wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...


Ugh. People are now saying Joker's obviously straight because he was listening to porn with a woman in it. *sighs*


Good grief.

its a pretty safe assumption though. whats so bad about going "oh he's obviously into women i guess he's straight". theres no indication he's bi so why would they think that?


always assuming people are bi just because they dont say they arent is well dumb.


its using logic.


man A shows interest in women. he also shows zero signs of being interested in men.
logical conclusion? he is straight.


man B shows interest in women. he also shows interest in men.
logical conclusion? he is bi.


man C shows no interest in women. he shows interest in men.
logical conclusion? he is gay.


all of those are completely reasonable and logical. will it be accurate every single time? nah but for a vast majority of the time its a same way to figure it out.

Well, your little science experiment would hold water if you were able to observe Man A, Man B, and Man C all day, every day, for their entire lives. You might still get some odd results at times though.


Your logical conclusions are merely understandable assumptions, and that's not the same thing. 


Always assuming people are straight just because they don't say they aren't is, well, dumb.

[Ryzaki]

I don't understand the alienromances either they kind of gross me out. I wouldn't want them taken out of the game though.

[James2912]

assuming people are straight is the safe option since the VAST MAJORITY of people are straight! In life you have to make assumptions about some things or you just can't operate in society!

Modifié par James2912, 17 mai 2011 - 07:12 .

[Sherbet Lemon]

Eradyn wrote...

Because sexual orientation does not change. It isn't a choice, it's what you are born as. You don't wake up one day saying, "gee, today I think I'll be gay, just for the hell of it." You are what you are. You can no more "convert" a heterosexual to homosexuality than you can a homosexual to heterosexuality. We're talking sexual orientation here, not someone's favorite movie or their maturing taste in literature.

Come on, you know what I meant and it wasn't people that choose their sexuality.  Please don't put falsehoods and deliberate misreadings as a means to debate my point of view.

It's not about changing, it's about realization.  Some people come to realize things about themselves later in life and some realize it earlier.  Social roles are powerful inhibitors, and some people never see beyond the social structure.  Some people deny who they are or what they want for far longer.  Some people attempt to live out the "norms" only to watch it collapse beneath them because it is not who they are.  I have seen it.

People always say they get it, that a gay or lesbian person is born that way, that "they can't help it." (I don't think that obviously..the part where they can't help themselves not that they aren't born a certain way.  Being born gay or lesbian..etc is a natural part of life.)  No, I don't think people really do get it.  I'll be honest when I say that I can't imagine what it's like to have the world say to you, "that you're wrong.  That what you do, who you love is unnatural."  I imagine it would be immensely painful and emotionally difficult in some cases.  I imagine that it would be difficult to come out and I understand why some people would be hesitant to offer that part of themselves.

But please, by all means––tell me that I'm simply being flippant.

EDIT:  Word choice...found a better one and clarified it a bit.

Modifié par Village Idiot, 17 mai 2011 - 07:29 .

[Centauri2002]

I feel a little sorry for the new characters they bring in to be the bisexual love interests, because they're going to be labelled as merely "the bi LI" by quite a few people and not taken seriously as a character. They've not had the time to be built up like established characters and we haven't grown attached to them. I hope, for their sake, the writing is fantastic and compelling.

[Clonedzero]

yeah, this is ridiculous. people are insulting. hostile. and childish. its really not worth having an intelligent conversation with you people anymore.

from using "they nver said they werent" as their primary argument.
from constantly arguing over SEMANTICS. dont care if its a retcon or not. if its stupid its stupid. what they did with anders character was stupid.

i love character growth and development. just not when its stupid. anders is a good example of BAD character development. theres countless examples of people growing, changing, aging, that are absolutely fantastic i love it. im not going to pick at one persons single opinion on ONE character and berate them because they disagree with me.

you're childish with your stupid *scratch* thing. its insulting and you're just making yourself out to look like an immature child. ive lost all respect for you, your opinion and wont read your posts anymore. act like an adult next time.

[ipgd]

Clonedzero wrote...

its a pretty safe assumption though. whats so bad about going "oh he's obviously into women i guess he's straight". theres no indication he's bi so why would they think that?

You can assume most people are straight. That is a safe, reasonable, and usually correct assumption, yes. You can't get mad when your assumption is sometimes wrong, though, because it is still an assumption. You are not the ultimate quantum observer of sexuality.

Clonedzero wrote...

its not a "they changed it now it
sucks" deal. its a "it was horribly executed and stupid" deal. my
opinion, not yours. dont tell me what to think.

I am not telling you what to think. You stated your opinion, I disagree with your opinion, so I am posting my opinion. If you don't want people to potentially disagree with your opinions, don't post them on a public forum.

The Narrator wrote...

yeah but he gets really offended.

and, It blows your argument out of the water.

just admit it, they changed the character to fill the role they needed.

What? No he doesn't.

[SennenScale]

ipgd wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
they ruined anders character by completely and utterly changing his personality. through retcon or just a bad story arch does it really matter? his character was ruined.

:|
His character wasn't ruined. His character in Awakening was specifically created to inform the tragedy of his character arc in 2 (go reread Justice's banters with Anders, Nathaniel and Velanna). Awakening Anders exists so you can understand how much better off both he and Justice were before they merged.

If you think about it beyond They Changed It Now It Sucks, his arc is very well done.

Indeed, it was skillfully done. I was kicking and screaming in the final act just like most other people, but the kicking and screaming doesn't mean Anders was done horribly.

I was actually lucky enough to hear those banters in Awakenings on my very first go. The idea that Justice would inhabit a new body was already firmly there in my head, and the idea that Anders would become more focused on helping his fellow mages was there as well. I didn't see JAnders coming, but it made sense once I thought about it.

Having a goofy, funny guy turn into...that...is a great demonstration of the dangers of the Fade. That lesson hurt like hell, admittedly.