6696 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

FLYING GRENADE11 wrote...

I am no homophobe, my friend is in fact bi, but i simply dont want gay romance in Mass Effect 3 is that wrong.

If you don't want it, don't flirt with the available male LI or LIs.

[James2912]

I'm going to try once again there seems to be a problem with my internet. I misunderstood people on here. It seemed like people wanted everyone bi, I was wrong I apologize.

[Ghost Warrior]

FLYING GRENADE11 wrote...

I am no homophobe, my friend is in fact bi, but i simply dont want gay romance in Mass Effect 3 is that wrong.

Not at all

[Sherbet Lemon]

Ghost Warrior wrote...


2. showing bisexuality/homosexuality as something normal and standard

Don't rage because of that one. True,those things exist in the real word but no matter how much would society approve it now or in the future,it will never become standard and you know it. It's wrong potraiting it as such.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or rude, seriously.  But why is it wrong?  What's wrong with making it seem normal? 

[jlb524]

You know what really breaks continuity?

ME1:male Shep can't defeat the Reapers once and for all
ME2:male Shep can't defeat the Reapers once and for all
ME3:male Shep can defeat the Reapers once and for all

I really hope they don't go that route and the galaxy just dies.

[Centauri2002]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Look there are two main reasons why introducing S/S romance is a bad idea:

1. breaking the continuity

Now you say it's not how everyone sees it,but let's look at the facts:

ME1:male Shep can't romance other men
ME2:male Shep can't romance other men
ME3:male Shep can romance other men

And most characters show no indication of being bi,and now suddenly they are in bed with same-sex Shep? I don't buy it.

2. showing bisexuality/homosexuality as something normal and standard

Don't rage because of that one. True,those things exist in the real word but no matter how much would society approve it now or in the future,it will never become standard and you know it. It's wrong potraiting it as such.




And there is one reason for doing it:

- more choices

Important reason,I admit. But enough to be done at cost of those 2 above?

Break continuity when FemShep can have same sex romantic interactions but MaleShep can't? All right, fine, I'll try and see it from your point of view. You must be worried that your Shepard's sexuality is going to be uncertain now. But it's not. Your choices are what define him, so just don't choose to romance a male character and you're safe. The continuity for your Shepard is secured.

I'm not sure it's even worth addressing your second point. It's just insulting. Just because you consider something abnormal, doesn't mean everyone does. Just because all of society hasn't adjusted yet, doesn't mean it's right to exclude based on that. Very warped reasoning.

It's odd that you say choice is a good thing when you've stated the above point. 

I'll say what I've always said - it's fine to think whatever you will of homosexuality and bisexuality but trying to force your opinion onto other peoples' games is another matter. It's the same for the opposite side of the debate as well. That's why romances are optional and are based around choice. If you don't want to see it, you don't have to. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 17 mai 2011 - 08:17 .

[Centauri2002]

thatguy212 wrote...

Isn't it technically only considered bisexual if you count alternate universes? (gay if maleshep, straight if femaleshep) so there could sorta be a gay-exclusive romance

You're right, I could look at it this way. If there's a human bisexual love interest then I probably will. 

[Ghost Warrior]

Village Idiot wrote...
  What's wrong with making it seem normal? 

The fact that is not.
Whether some people approve it,and others not doesn't matter. It is not normal(standard),it is in significant minority.
Making multiple people bi on a 12 men team is wrong.

[WizenSlinky0]

Oh for the love of- I take one nap and I'm this far behind. Hopefully I can fit everybody in.

Eradyn wrote...



Because sexual orientation does not change.
It isn't a choice, it's what you are born as. You don't wake up one day
saying, "gee, today I think I'll be gay, just for the hell of it." You
are what you are. You can no more "convert" a heterosexual to
homosexuality than you can a homosexual to heterosexuality. We're
talking sexual orientation here, not someone's favorite movie or their
maturing taste in literature.

That's like saying people don't grow over time. There will always be times in our life where we re-evaluateeverything and come to different conclusions. You must also consider the fact it's not always what gender you fall for, but who the person is, specifically. Some people just captivate your senses from start to finish and gender has nothing to do with it.

Walrusninja wrote...



If Wrex is gay or something, that
would make no sense whatsoever. As has been said, the Krogan are very
matter-of-fact about relationships and very practical, it's not some
soppy fan-fiction. The Krogan just wouldn't even get into this sort of
conversation, it would be utterly our of character.

A gay Krogan would not be impossible. There are outliars in every species. Hell, there's a damn Krogan spouting love poems in ME2. Never thought I'd see the day. It certainly wouldn't make much logical sense considering Krogan's high ability to crush our females squishy bodies. But love has never been logical.

It's very, very unlikely and based on Wrex 's personally I highly doubt they'd claim he was...but yeah. You can't generalize an entire species based on the majority. If that was the case we could say there are no gay humans because all you've met is straight ones.

Clonedzero wrote...

its a pretty safe assumption though. whats
so bad about going "oh he's obviously into women i guess he's
straight". theres no indication he's bi so why would they think that?



always assuming people are bi just because they dont say they arent is well dumb.



its using logic.



man A shows interest in women. he also shows zero signs of being interested in men.

logical conclusion? he is straight.



man B shows interest in women. he also shows interest in men.

logical conclusion? he is bi.



man C shows no interest in women. he shows interest in men.

logical conclusion? he is gay.



all
of those are completely reasonable and logical. will it be accurate
every single time? nah but for a vast majority of the time its a same
way to figure it out.

Assumptions are inherently bad because they are not an accurate replacement for actual information. Of course I make assumptions and so does everybody else. Just because something challenges this assumption does not make it wrong though. We made these assumptions based off a very limited amount of information presented by a person/character and to find out there is more to them than we originally thought should not come as a surprise.

You don't make options for how many they flirt with either. If they chronically flirt with every woman they see, yeah, the accuracy of the assumption goes up.If they flirt with a select group of women...it's just as possible (if
not as likely) they are Bisexual and happen to be attracted to those specific women. Perhaps none of the other men interest him, perhaps only one interests him but they are afraid it wouldn't be appropriate to express it, perhaps they are simply ashamed of their feelings at that point in time.

We. Don't. "Know". Everything we do assume is a preconception we are forming based on our world views, the people we know, and partially simply what we WANT to see.

It's true the statistical probability of Shepard gaining an entire ship full of Bisexuals would be so very, very unlikely. But it would not be a gamebreaker. If a friend declares his homosexuality tomorrow are they no longer your friend? Sexuality shouldn't determine how you view a characters personality. They aren't ruining anything. Unless they change other things all they've done is give a broader overview of what makes
their body tingle.

With the increase in friendship dialogue and proper implementation of romance dialogue their sexual orientation
shouldn't even be a noticable change for those who aren't agressively flirting with them just to find something that upsets them. The major non-homophobic concerns seem to stem from character assissination and
DA2 hate.

DA2 hate has been cut down time and time again. Different teams, different development times, and different budgets. I personally didn't even mind the game. It wasn't impressive but it was still fun to play. I don't even remember Anders hitting on me until my second playthrough. I kinda chuckled at it and put him in his place. I do the flirting around here Anders, you hear me? If I want you I'll come and say so.

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Case in
point, I've repeatedly said around the forums that the Garrus/Tali
romance shift makes absolutely no sense to me. With how many
playthroughs I've done on both games, it does feel to me like something
spackled in and limits my Sheps dialogs with them since I don't want a
romance with them. Now to a Garrus fan or a Talimancer, I must be
clearly blind to not see the little innuendos they do. Really, I could
sit down with one of them at a table and go over every bit in game with
them pointing and saying "SEE!" and I'm still not going to see what they
do, even elaborating how we respectively see things will likely result
in each of us thinking the other's crazy.



Now, does my not seeing
what they do just mean my perspective's different or am I
misinterpreting? The first is common to everyone, the second implies
that I'm wrong.



Everyone doesn't like it when they're wrong on
something, but just having a differing perspective is something that we
can engage in thoughtful discussion on. I think part of the temper
flarings going on in the thread is from the presuming people are
interpreting wrong than just having a differing perspective.

I still am a bit iffy on how Garrus was written for his romance. Tali I understood even though I didn't like her in ME1 she matured in ME2 and I could see where the progression could take place. Based around the awe of saving the galaxy and the sudden loss of Shepard. I've said it before but death has a way of making you re-evaluate how you feel about things and people. When there's a gaping whole you start to realize what it meant.

But yes, most of the issues stem from people (me included) making assumptions on characters that no one outside Bioware could ever really know. This doesn't change the fact that sexuality should not define a character in this day and age.

The Narrator wrote...

fundementaly this is about messing with characters to fit roles, and adding politics to games, most likely to search for demographics.

Maybe im wrong but i see no way anders was already bisexual in awakenings, and his mixing with a spirit with no physical attachment wouldn't exactly increase his opinions on the subject of sex.

Politics and entertainment i think we can all agree should usually stay apart, it makes good works bad to some, and worse to others. It makes musicians hated and contreversy stem and can make peoples favorite artists, musicians, ect, ect, objectionable to their ideolgy, whatever that may be, so, Its bad, to clarify.

its popular and they may be searching for that, or it could be a return to old ways, with bad timing do to the times. Im probably wrong here, because i won't lie i started playing Bioware games at KOTOR and have yet to go farther back.

Sorry if i offended anyone, which i probably did.

If so, know that in the future, Im never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and hurt you never gonna make you cry never gonna tell a lie and desert you.

I don't support making characters Bi just for giggles and demographics. I just have an open mind when it comes to challenging my own preconceptions about people and things. I'd hope Bioware would provide the proper flushing out of character and writing to properly transition into a S/S relationship.

Maybe they won't but that would be a problem of implementation and not to blame on them making the character bisexual. I think peoples focus is misplaced. They should be begging Bioware to implement it well enough that we hardly even notice a change.

I agree politics should stay out of my entertainment but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be bisexual and gay characters in a game. These people exist and therefore you should expect video games to reflect this.

So long as it's implemented well I don't see the problem.

James2912 wrote...

I agree with Culturalgeekgirl in that
ME's romance adds valuable drama to the game, it adds to the I'm
starring in an epic sci fi movie adventure feeling. However it seems
that since ME1 the romance section of the game has been growing
exponentially, which to me is scary and unnecessarily especially since
ME2 squadmate and friendship interaction was cut so much and tied so
strongly to romance. It makes me wonder whats going to happen in ME3.
Will I be able to talk to garrus or will he be to busy doing
calibrations because I'm not intersted in effing him? Thats stupid! More
friendship less LI's!

The sheer number has gotten quite staggering yes. I used to like that Bioware included 2 or so options for every gender-matchup. I don't mind it as long as they adaquately provide conclusions to all of them but don't spend an enormous amount of time on them. I'd like ALL the characters I'm interacting with in that playthrough to be cool and interesting, not just if my Shepard wants their pants off.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 17 mai 2011 - 08:25 .

[Ryzaki]

James2912 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

C9316 wrote...

I look at this thread look back and think to myself "Gee, and Bioware didn't even have to give us what we got now, heck they should've made it where you couldn't romance anyone just so people wouldn't have to rant about not being accomodated."

They might've been able to work on some decent character development outside screwing someone in that case as well. Hi Jack. <_< 

Edit: @James: And you know what fine. Sorry for asking for 2 bi male LIs. I'll be sure never to ask for more than I deserve again. 

Sorry I completely misunderstood what you were saying two is perfectly reasonable.

Thank you. 

[ReveurIngenu]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Look there are two main reasons why introducing S/S romance is a bad idea:

1. breaking the continuity

Now you say it's not how everyone sees it,but let's look at the facts:

ME1:male Shep can't romance other men
ME2:male Shep can't romance other men
ME3:male Shep can romance other men

And most characters show no indication of being bi,and now suddenly they are in bed with same-sex Shep? I don't buy it.

2. showing bisexuality/homosexuality as something normal and standard

Don't rage because of that one. True,those things exist in the real word but no matter how much would society approve it now or in the future,it will never become standard and you know it. It's wrong potraiting it as such.




And there is one reason for doing it:

- more choices

Important reason,I admit. But enough to be done at cost of those 2 above?

Oh, wow, you just discredited yourself by showing your obvious bias against gays.  It's clear that you use the "continuity" argument to mask your homophobia.

Homosexuality has more chances of becoming standard and accepted because countries all over the world are becoming more tolerant and open.  I can cite the numerous countries legalizing gay marriages, the abolition of Don't Ask Don't Tell, the banalization of lesbian acts in "straight porn," as well as numerous other examples.  Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it won't become socially accepted in the world one day.

"It's wrong portraying it as such." 

Wow, talk about finally showing your true opinions on the matter.  It certainly isn't about continuity, but about "being wrong".  No point in hiding behind that argument anymore.  How do you feel knowing your poll about whether or not people approve same sex relationships has over a 50 percent approval rating (don't have the exact numbers)?


All I have to say is "Deal with it," because Bioware knows that they will not be cut any slack from the community if the gay romances seem second-rate or like something abnormal.  Gay romances in ME3 will be as normal as straight romances (just as in DAII) and in real life, gay rights will only increase with time as well as social acceptance of them.  Don't like it?  Not our problem.  Deal with it.<_<

[ipgd]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Village Idiot wrote...
  What's wrong with making it seem normal? 

The fact that is not.
Whether some people approve it,and others not doesn't matter. It is not normal(standard),it is in significant minority.
Making multiple people bi on a 12 men team is wrong.

You know that 12 is not a representative sample of the general population, right? You could have a hundred gays on one ship and it wouldn't matter for diddlysquat because it's a hundred out of trillions.

A lot more than 5% of my friends are gay. It doesn't matter because I don't have 300 million friends.

[JetsoverEverything]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Okay, enough of this base, contemptible nonsense.

Here are the facts:

1) The inclusion of potential same sex romances increases the amount of options.
2) We like options.
3) Being the player, you have agency over what options you respond to, and which you do not.
4) You do not have to respond to the same sex option.
5) BioWare has made the decision, and no amount of knee-jerk reactionary whinging is going to change that fact.
6) You either buy the game or you do not.
7) You have that option too.

[Disclaimer:] This is aimed at no one particular person. It's simply a response to a prevalent gist in the discussion.

would you have said that if they didnt include the s/s romance? 
or would you still be petitioning fo it to be included in?

[James2912]

Let me see if I can clarify peoples positions:
Most s/s supporters are fine with just having new bi or gay LI's
Some would want to be able to romance the aliens and or other of there favorite characters for obvious reasons.

The other side for the most part is wary about all of this and is mostly okay with having gay bi LI's as long as not everyone is gay or bi. i.e. don't "change" the old characters.

Sounds like we all basically agree we just are wary of each others extremes i.e. no gay li's at all and on the flipside of the extreme coin make everybody  BI.

So as long as you are not on either extreme there is no reason for us to fight.

Modifié par James2912, 17 mai 2011 - 08:28 .

[SennenScale]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Village Idiot wrote...
  What's wrong with making it seem normal? 

The fact that is not.
Whether some people approve it,and others not doesn't matter. It is not normal(standard),it is in significant minority.
Making multiple people bi on a 12 men team is wrong.

Why is this particular statistic anomaly so bothersome to you in a game whose main character came back from the dead?

[Walrusninja]

Alright. I doubt anyone will read my guff, but I'll try to share it anyways.
I think the problem here is as follows:

Homosexuality, and the likes really, are VERY raw subjects. As has been seen here, when you get down to it, we still don't even know the facts of the subject ie. are you born gay, straight etc. is it a decision? (anyone who even trys to argue that one out ..... just don't start, anyone who does will be ignored entirely fro argueing theories). So there's only so far this can go before it errupts into "my opinion over yours".

I think the community looking for the relationship variety, really should be grateful to Bioware for what they've managed to achieve. I think Bioware however need to be careful not to segregate the community and incite hate, and really should just cut the focus on romance and focus on the story but hey, I admire their guts for trying.

It's more a society problem than a problem just on here. The ideas of sexuality are spreading, but there's a LOT of "oh if you disagree you're an intollerant homophobe" goes on too. That really helps nobody, in fact, it incites hatred and divison, fairly so. This is a culture-shock, massive, massive change, deal with that. It's something that'll grow over time and through acceptance and open mindedness ON BOTH SIDES. It isn't a matter of "hi, the government is cool with us now so accept us or we'll look down on you". Hundreds of years of values and ideals are being questioned and sorted here, that isn't easy.

I admire anyone who truly believes in what they are doing. I admire the old school thinkers who are sticking to their roots and their ideals, why shouldn't they? And I admire gays etc. who are genuine about it and just trying to understand the world they live in and who they are. Both are valid, so stop trying to stamp on each other. This may sound brutal, but gays etc. especially need to be careful. As a minority, you need to strive and fight for the respect you desire, that's just the way it is. Forcing it breaks things and widens the gap. That does not mean "Gay Pride" parades, the exact opposite

Oh yeah, I have absolutely NO respect whatsoever, for non-gays etc. "standing up for" gays etc. In doing so, you not only show that you don't believe they are capable of standing up for themselves, which they totally are but you're also stupidly getting wound up on one of the "sides" and making the whole situation worse. It's like me saying "the elderly are strong and should be respected! they can speak for themselves! ... which .... is why I'm here speaking on their behalf!" - it makes no sense. You're showing respect with words and a lack of it with actions, cut it out, fakes.

SO. Bioware, please add at least 1 option for each. To my mind Liara is a definate and always should be, Kaiden always struck me as gay, he just did, I dunno why, I think it'd fit his personality. Ash, well, no. She's stubborn and kind of "by the books" it wouldn't fit her attitude.

Basically - yes, do this Bioware, but do it well. And DO NOT set everyone to Bi. Otherwise it just becomes a joke really. The majority of the world is straight and pretty solid in that, that's just the way it is. Making all the characters suddenly 100% sexually open breaks the characters developed so far especially seeing as we're about to go to full out war, it's not exactly time to settle down and start a family:)
Don't break the old characters, nerves are still raw on the subject, accept it or not, this would damage the characters for many. For me personally it would simply damage continuity and feel like a cheap publicity stunt.
New characters - go mad!

Failing all that, please, just focus on the damn story : /

Edit: if you want a pretty clear example of eveyrthing that's WRONG in this thread, look no further than ReveurIngenu. That, is how NOT to do it.

Modifié par Walrusninja, 17 mai 2011 - 08:33 .

[Ghost Warrior]

ReveurIngenu wrote...


Oh, wow, you just discredited yourself by showing your obvious bias against gays.  It's clear that you use the "continuity" argument to mask your homophobia.

Homosexuality has more chances of becoming standard and accepted because countries all over the world are becoming more tolerant and open.  I can cite the numerous countries legalizing gay marriages, the abolition of Don't Ask Don't Tell, the banalization of lesbian acts in "straight porn," as well as numerous other examples.  Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it won't become socially accepted in the world one day.

"It's wrong portraying it as such." 

Wow, talk about finally showing your true opinions on the matter.  It certainly isn't about continuity, but about "being wrong".  No point in hiding behind that argument anymore.  How do you feel knowing your poll about whether or not people approve same sex relationships has over a 50 percent approval rating (don't have the exact numbers)?


All I have to say is "Deal with it," because Bioware knows that they will not be cut any slack from the community if the gay romances seem second-rate or like something abnormal.  Gay romances in ME3 will be as normal as straight romances (just as in DAII) and in real life, gay rights will only increase with time as well as social acceptance of them.  Don't like it?  Not our problem.  Deal with it.<_<

I never hid behind anything. Continuity is my first and main reason,that second point is just another.

I know quite a few people approving gay relationships,but not one of them considers it normal.That was my point.

[Ghost Warrior]

Walrusninja wrote...

Alright. I doubt anyone will read my guff, but I'll try to share it anyways.
I think the problem here is as follows:

Homosexuality, and the likes really, are VERY raw subjects. As has been seen here, when you get down to it, we still don't even know the facts of the subject ie. are you born gay, straight etc. is it a decision? (anyone who even trys to argue that one out ..... just don't start, anyone who does will be ignored entirely fro argueing theories). So there's only so far this can go before it errupts into "my opinion over yours".

I think the community looking for the relationship variety, really should be grateful to Bioware for what they've managed to achieve. I think Bioware however need to be careful not to segregate the community and incite hate, and really should just cut the focus on romance and focus on the story but hey, I admire their guts for trying.

It's more a society problem than a problem just on here. The ideas of sexuality are spreading, but there's a LOT of "oh if you disagree you're an intollerant homophobe" goes on too. That really helps nobody, in fact, it incites hatred and divison, fairly so. This is a culture-shock, massive, massive change, deal with that. It's something that'll grow over time and through acceptance and open mindedness ON BOTH SIDES. It isn't a matter of "hi, the government is cool with us now so accept us or we'll look down on you". Hundreds of years of values and ideals are being questioned and sorted here, that isn't easy.

I admire anyone who truly believes in what they are doing. I admire the old school thinkers who are sticking to their roots and their ideals, why shouldn't they? And I admire gays etc. who are genuine about it and just trying to understand the world they live in and who they are. Both are valid, so stop trying to stamp on each other. This may sound brutal, but gays etc. especially need to be careful. As a minority, you need to strive and fight for the respect you desire, that's just the way it is. Forcing it breaks things and widens the gap. That does not mean "Gay Pride" parades, the exact opposite

Oh yeah, I have absolutely NO respect whatsoever, for non-gays etc. "standing up for" gays etc. In doing so, you not only show that you don't believe they are capable of standing up for themselves, which they totally are but you're also stupidly getting wound up on one of the "sides" and making the whole situation worse. It's like me saying "the elderly are strong and should be respected! they can speak for themselves! ... which .... is why I'm here speaking on their behalf!" - it makes no sense. You're showing respect with words and a lack of it with actions, cut it out, fakes.

SO. Bioware, please add at least 1 option for each. To my mind Liara is a definate and always should be, Kaiden always struck me as gay, he just did, I dunno why, I think it'd fit his personality. Ash, well, no. She's stubborn and kind of "by the books" it wouldn't fit her attitude.

Basically - yes, do this Bioware, but do it well. And DO NOT set everyone to Bi. Otherwise it just becomes a joke really. The majority of the world is straight and pretty solid in that, that's just the way it is. Making all the characters suddenly 100% sexually open breaks the characters developed so far especially seeing as we're about to go to full out war, it's not exactly time to settle down and start a family:)
Don't break the old characters, nerves are still raw on the subject, accept it or not, this would damage the characters for many. For me personally it would simply damage continuity and feel like a cheap publicity stunt.
New characters - go mad!

Failing all that, please, just focus on the damn story : /

Well said

[Servo to the bitter end]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Village Idiot wrote...
  What's wrong with making it seem normal? 

The fact that is not.
Whether some people approve it,and others not doesn't matter. It is not normal(standard),it is in significant minority.
Making multiple people bi on a 12 men team is wrong.

Just "telling it like it is," eh?

Dude, shut up. I'm amazed that you don't realize how offensive that is, along with your previous statement. It's poorly veiled homophobia and arrogance.

I forget who said this, and they may have been paraphrasing someone else even, but...heterosexuality is not normal. It's common. There's a difference. And if it is truly a significant minority, then we should work to abolish the prejudices that marginalize it so.

That said - and people seem to forget this - it's stupid to bring real-life into this, period. It's a game about space wizards and Cthulhu robots. It doesn't matter what you think is realistic - because in context,  all of this is up to the writers. If they decide that some characters are bi or some characters have a context sensitive orientation, then they do. You can't really say anything about it "not making sense," because it makes perfect sense - you just don't like it. At the very least, you need to reserve judgement for the finished product. Who knows - they may write an existing character as a s/s love interest so well that you're even convinced.

Regarding Shepard - from the very beginning, Shepard could identify as bisexual or homosexual. This isn't a retcon and it doesn't break continuity - it expands the parameters to where they should have been in the first place.

Modifié par TommyServo, 17 mai 2011 - 08:38 .

[JetsoverEverything]

lol its funny how this whole thread became a straight vs gay thing and its all hidden withing this video game talk.

[Russalka]

I am so bored by people mentioning how a friend of theirs is gay, especially if it is followed by a disagreeable opinion.

[fredmillstabs]

So sex with another species is ok,
but sex with another human (of the same sex) is not?

[C9316]

TommyServo wrote...


Just "telling it like it is," eh?

Dude, shut up. I'm amazed that you don't realize how offensive that is, along with your previous statement. It's poorly veiled homophobia and arrogance.

Oh look more poorly veiled political correctness and victim mentality, seems like you can't even breathe without offending someone.

[Centauri2002]

Walrusninja wrote...

Oh yeah, I have absolutely NO respect whatsoever, for non-gays etc. "standing up for" gays etc. In doing so, you not only show that you don't believe they are capable of standing up for themselves, which they totally are but you're also stupidly getting wound up on one of the "sides" and making the whole situation worse. It's like me saying "the elderly are strong and should be respected! they can speak for themselves! ... which .... is why I'm here speaking on their behalf!" - it makes no sense. You're showing respect with words and a lack of it with actions, cut it out, fakes.

This view just saddens me, really. I have friends who are quite vocal about gay rights but they're straight. I do not feel weakened by their support and I do not consider them fake. They're standing with me, not for me. Not wanting them to do so would make me feel segregated more than I already do. 

Besides, we're all people, why shouldn't we support one another? We should stop looking at our differences and concentrate on our similarities for once.

I'm just happy knowing I'm not hated by absolutely everyone who isn't gay.

Modifié par centauri2002, 17 mai 2011 - 08:39 .