6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Russalka]

James2912 wrote...

There has been. 

Links?

[Ninja Mage]

Mmm what about that chocolate brotha Jacob? His ass was popping out the latex lol

Bi Jacob..for the PRRIIIIZEEEEEEE lol

[jlb524]

James2912 wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Was there ever any grief from gay players because of being hit on by the opposite gender?

There has been. 

Where would that be?   Was a thread created for this purpose?

[IoCaster]

Russalka wrote...

Except that a turning on or off button stems also from bigotry, among other things.

How?

[PMC65]

Wait, what happened? When I left this thread it was about some dude on DA:2 and now we are talking the politics of dancing?
This is a game … a game that is driven by the player. My Shep is not your Shep … Hell, none of my Sheps are alike to be honest. To look at the game through their eyes, even the crew(characters) seem different … how I love role-playing!
Bioware is adding a few options to allow s/s relationships that does not have to be played in your game. Look at Tali & Garrus - they were opened up to be romanceable in ME2, which I did not do. Not romancing either did not change my Shep or his relationship with these two. They are still friends and my Shep did not have kisses blown at them by either character or valentine gifts left in the cabin. The only complaint that I had was the overall lack of conversations between Shep and his crew (romantic or friendship).
Bioware just needs to set the game where if you don’t want it (choose it) … well you don’t see it. For those who are screaming that “SHEP IS STRAIGHT” – you are right, your Shep is straight and those screaming that “SHEP IS GAY” – you are right, your Shep is gay. Now shake hands and go back to your own personal ME world.
To the Bioware ME3 team: Please take a picture of this DA:2 Anders (?) guy and a picture of a femshep leaning against the table as she talks to Jacob, draw a circle over their faces, slash a line over them and NEVER, EVER apply to ME3.

[Ryzaki]

That's a problem with the writing period then James. Not someone being gay or straight.

And Jack is a particularly bad case. Ugh. I hated trying to talk to her without being cursed at to screw off because my Shepard didn't want to romance her

[James2912]

LiquidGrape wrote...

James2912 wrote...

so whats the problem with that. You get what you want they get what they want.


Also gay shepards wound not be hit on by the straight LI's. It saves a lot of people a lot of grief and makes everyone happy.

Would you be equally supportive of a function which could exclude and/or revise characters of a particular ethnicity?

In short, consciously or not, what you're suggesting is a toggle for prejudices. Homophobic, heterophobic, any kind of sexual prejudice expressed by anyone of any orientation. This function would have been derived from a negative and inherently intolerant perspective.

I don't think that's the right approach in any context.

what? People should be able to design theire characters the way they want them to be. Gay/straight whatever. Come on don't be the stereotypical victim. People are being perfectly reasonable and your still playing the victim card. It just pisses people off. 

[JetsoverEverything]

ahhh reminds me of the days when we fought for black rights.

Modifié par JetsoverEverything, 17 mai 2011 - 09:10 .

[ipgd]

IoCaster wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Except that a turning on or off button stems also from bigotry, among other things.

How?

Because it is conceived by and for the benefit of people who are uncomfortable with homosexuality.

[SennenScale]

James2912 wrote...

Hey if it actually worked that way great. But there are guides on how not to be ninjamanced. And jack is a perfect example of a character which is ruined if you don't romance her. In that she become hostile.

So let's ask Bioware to work on the real problem: ninjamance. It seeps into other Bioware games as well as ME. They need to write every romance better and have better friendship paths, not just have a gay toggle.

[IoCaster]

JetsoverEverything wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

What a trainwreck this whole subject is and it's so predictable that it makes my teeth itch. The complete story/plot of the series has taken a nose-dive into a bottomless sinkhole of stupidity and this gay romance crap is what BroWare decides to devote dev time to shoehorning into the finale? Quelle surprise!

Didn't this all get argued on the DA2 board? I wasn't paying much attention because I knew the game was going to suck, but IIRC someone made a suggestion to include a toggle or choice at the start of the game to nix the gay option. That seemed like a reasonable alternative. If it's all a question of inclusion and choice then make it an actual 'choice'.

Here ya go...

Selection screen for a new or imported character:

Male
Colonist
Sole Survivor
Gay - <yes>/<no> ?

If you choose <yes> then you get all of the dialogue options to pursue the gay romances in the game.

If you choose <no> then a flag is set and those dialogue options don't come up. Players that don't want any gay dialogue don't have to expose themselves to any homosexual content in the game. 

What's the problem with that solution?

people will still complain.

About what exactly? Complain about choice?

[M-Sinistrari]

SennenScale wrote...

We can make a choice of LIs without specifically drawing attention to it in this manner. A gay on/off toggle is not a good way to fix the root of the problem: ninjamance.

If Bioware makes every romance clear and obvious, there's no problem, and better yet, fixes another existing issue, the straight ninjamance.

Sorting through the assorted tangents, I think the primary sticking point to topic is concern over ninjamance.  In ME1 I regularly got zinged with Liara despite only talking to her once just to knock out codex entries and ended up just not recruiting her until I had no choice just to ensure for the playthroughs my Sheps weren't romancing her, I wasn't having to deal with what I wasn't initiating.

Something like ninjamance is something one can't just avoid otherwise it'd be avoided and is more a matter of how things are handled in the writing.

[Walrusninja]

I probably should've left it at "this is a touchy subject". I did try to communicate my thoughts as best I could in a non-offensive way. People either ignored that or didn't understand what I was getting at, possibly due to my own wording or other sources. Either way, I'm out. It is sad that it seems with these threads, the more effort you make to try to understand or commit, the worse it gets. It's just a big circle.

I stand by my support of the idea in the sense of thought out, careful and proper application of it. I'm done otherwise.

[Ninja Mage]

Jack was awful...like the worst character ever written if you don't like her. As soon as you say you prefer Miranda she SNAPS and is like "F*((& YIOUUUU HOW DAREE YOU TALK TO ME! I KNO WHAT I NEED IN MY LIFE!" It's like wow Jack...calm down

[Ryzaki]

Look if the s/s romances need to be toggled so does everything else that might offend someone.

Let any talk about racism have a toggle, let any talk about murder have a toggle (particularly genocide and the Genophage), let's have sweaing have a toggle, let's have the o/s romances toggled because some people don't believe in sex out side of marriage, or feel uncomfortable being hit on.

The problem with toggling something because someone doesn't want to see it is where do you draw the line?

[Ghost Warrior]

IoCaster wrote...

JetsoverEverything wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

What a trainwreck this whole subject is and it's so predictable that it makes my teeth itch. The complete story/plot of the series has taken a nose-dive into a bottomless sinkhole of stupidity and this gay romance crap is what BroWare decides to devote dev time to shoehorning into the finale? Quelle surprise!

Didn't this all get argued on the DA2 board? I wasn't paying much attention because I knew the game was going to suck, but IIRC someone made a suggestion to include a toggle or choice at the start of the game to nix the gay option. That seemed like a reasonable alternative. If it's all a question of inclusion and choice then make it an actual 'choice'.

Here ya go...

Selection screen for a new or imported character:

Male
Colonist
Sole Survivor
Gay - <yes>/<no> ?

If you choose <yes> then you get all of the dialogue options to pursue the gay romances in the game.

If you choose <no> then a flag is set and those dialogue options don't come up. Players that don't want any gay dialogue don't have to expose themselves to any homosexual content in the game. 

What's the problem with that solution?

people will still complain.

About what exactly? Complain about choice?

They find that idea insulting for some reasons.

[James2912]

IF We had the option of a gay shepard at the beginning all the characters could be bi! Everyone Kaidan Ashley whomever. I would think people would want that.

[Therefore_I_Am]

Giving both s/s and m/f choices in the same dialog wheel is a bad idea from a marketing standpoint. There are people who do not want to see something that doesn't make sense with the Shepard-character they are playing within their dialog choices, especially if the character they are talking to have always been a specific sexuality and didn't present such a choice in previous games. It will make alot of players uncomfortable. And ME3's sale will probably suffer because of it. It needs to cater to the majority, while having new characters that can be possibly bi, but not the older ones.
Now I'm not against it, but I'm just saying that it made many people tilt their head in DA2 when bioware did this sort of thing.

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 17 mai 2011 - 09:11 .

[LiquidGrape]

James2912 wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

James2912 wrote...

so whats the problem with that. You get what you want they get what they want.


Also gay shepards wound not be hit on by the straight LI's. It saves a lot of people a lot of grief and makes everyone happy.

Would you be equally supportive of a function which could exclude and/or revise characters of a particular ethnicity?

In short, consciously or not, what you're suggesting is a toggle for prejudices. Homophobic, heterophobic, any kind of sexual prejudice expressed by anyone of any orientation. This function would have been derived from a negative and inherently intolerant perspective.

I don't think that's the right approach in any context.

what? People should be able to design theire characters the way they want them to be. Gay/straight whatever. Come on don't be the stereotypical victim. People are being perfectly reasonable and your still playing the victim card. It just pisses people off. 

Please read my post before you make groundless assumptions.

You suggest a function be implemented which dictates what content the player be exposed to during gameplay, i.e straight characters wouldn't have to "suffer" advances from bi or gay characters, and vice versa.

I say that function is offensive to anyone of any sexual orientation seeing as it willfully excludes their particular orientation for the benefit of a particular player.

Can you not see what is problematic about that?

[IoCaster]

TommyServo wrote...

JetsoverEverything wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

What a trainwreck this whole subject is and it's so predictable that it makes my teeth itch. The complete story/plot of the series has taken a nose-dive into a bottomless sinkhole of stupidity and this gay romance crap is what BroWare decides to devote dev time to shoehorning into the finale? Quelle surprise!

Didn't this all get argued on the DA2 board? I wasn't paying much attention because I knew the game was going to suck, but IIRC someone made a suggestion to include a toggle or choice at the start of the game to nix the gay option. That seemed like a reasonable alternative. If it's all a question of inclusion and choice then make it an actual 'choice'.

Here ya go...

Selection screen for a new or imported character:

Male
Colonist
Sole Survivor
Gay - <yes>/<no> ?

If you choose <yes> then you get all of the dialogue options to pursue the gay romances in the game.

If you choose <no> then a flag is set and those dialogue options don't come up. Players that don't want any gay dialogue don't have to expose themselves to any homosexual content in the game. 

What's the problem with that solution?

people will still complain.

Because it's a lousy solution. It's a lot better to just treat them like any other one, and not pursue them if you don't want to.

So you have a problem with choice? Everyone must conform to your view about what is best? Isn't that what the original complaint is?

[Servo to the bitter end]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

TommyServo wrote...


Dude, shut up. I'm amazed that you don't realize how offensive that is, along with your previous statement. It's poorly veiled homophobia and arrogance.

No,I won't shut up. I say I don't approve homosexuality and suddenly everything else I said doesn't matter,that must be my only reason and everything else was there to hide my homophobia. WRONG!
If you read my older posts and those in Fight for Love,you would see that this is no new revelation,I never hid my disapproval of gay people.

If there was such option since ME1 I wouldn't like it,but I wouldn't complain about it. But waiting until the third game to introduce it...that I mind very much. Still,I am prepared for compromises - not making old characters suddenly bi and further break continuity,but introduce some new bi/gay characters.

Nothing about this,huh?

I don't think there's anything else to say. I don't agree with you, and I think you're wrong - objectively, morally, by any measurement, you're in the wrong. There's no rational basis to disapprove of homosexuality. Kudos for sticking to your incorrect convictions? I can't comprehend anyone being proud of the statements you've made.

I also don't think it breaks continuity. You think it does. I don't think that making a character bi "changes" anything, because we have different ideas about sexuality (again, I feel that you have demonstrably "wrong" ideas). I think there's plenty of room for these characters to expand, and Bioware has some great writers. Besides, my viewpoint allows for, say, Kaidan, to be full on straight or full on gay in different games, because each playthrough is it's own isolated universe.

Again - Shepard has been gay or bi since the very beginning. Femshep could express this - MShep could not. They're two sides of the same coin, so that didn't make sense. Now they've fixed it. Better late than never.

[JetsoverEverything]

IoCaster wrote...

JetsoverEverything wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

What a trainwreck this whole subject is and it's so predictable that it makes my teeth itch. The complete story/plot of the series has taken a nose-dive into a bottomless sinkhole of stupidity and this gay romance crap is what BroWare decides to devote dev time to shoehorning into the finale? Quelle surprise!

Didn't this all get argued on the DA2 board? I wasn't paying much attention because I knew the game was going to suck, but IIRC someone made a suggestion to include a toggle or choice at the start of the game to nix the gay option. That seemed like a reasonable alternative. If it's all a question of inclusion and choice then make it an actual 'choice'.

Here ya go...

Selection screen for a new or imported character:

Male
Colonist
Sole Survivor
Gay - <yes>/<no> ?

If you choose <yes> then you get all of the dialogue options to pursue the gay romances in the game.

If you choose <no> then a flag is set and those dialogue options don't come up. Players that don't want any gay dialogue don't have to expose themselves to any homosexual content in the game. 

What's the problem with that solution?

people will still complain.

About what exactly? Complain about choice?

yea some people have already stated that its prejudice.

[James2912]

Look either we have the ninja mancing fixed or the button at the beginning. one or the other. I do not want to be ninja mancing guys that is my right as a player. If its not a problem in ME3 thats great.

[Ninja Mage]

The issue with a dialogue choice during character creation that said, "Would you like your shepard to be gay?" YES/NO Is it singles out minorities and points out certain gamers' prejudice.

Like a Would you like Jacob to be white? YES/NO

Would you like Miranda to be a man? YES/NO

Would you like Jack to look more feminine? YES/NO

Would you like Tali to have an american accent? YES/NO

It's just pandering and it makes the game look bad