6696 réponses à ce sujet

[MACharlie1]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

JetsoverEverything wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

What a trainwreck this whole subject is and it's so predictable that it makes my teeth itch. The complete story/plot of the series has taken a nose-dive into a bottomless sinkhole of stupidity and this gay romance crap is what BroWare decides to devote dev time to shoehorning into the finale? Quelle surprise!

Didn't this all get argued on the DA2 board? I wasn't paying much attention because I knew the game was going to suck, but IIRC someone made a suggestion to include a toggle or choice at the start of the game to nix the gay option. That seemed like a reasonable alternative. If it's all a question of inclusion and choice then make it an actual 'choice'.

Here ya go...

Selection screen for a new or imported character:

Male
Colonist
Sole Survivor
Gay - <yes>/<no> ?

If you choose <yes> then you get all of the dialogue options to pursue the gay romances in the game.

If you choose <no> then a flag is set and those dialogue options don't come up. Players that don't want any gay dialogue don't have to expose themselves to any homosexual content in the game. 

What's the problem with that solution?

people will still complain.

About what exactly? Complain about choice?

They find that idea insulting for some reasons.

In that case I want a black person toggle. It isn't normal for a black man to be so educated as Jacob or Anderson are. With this toggle, their complexion automatically turns into the perfect anglo-saxan that I feel fits the reality better. <_<

[JamieCOTC]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

snip

Possibly just one bi guy to balance Liara.

snip

This is what I am expecting. 

[Ryzaki]

@IoCaster : Okay. 

You have a toggle to change Jacob and every dark skinned character into a white blond blue eyed character.

Would it still be choice in that instance?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2011 - 09:14 .

[James2912]

To me its no different then choosing gender in the beginning of the game but whatever. It seems some people claim they care about choice when they are no different from the anti gay people they just want to push their style of playing on others. 

Modifié par James2912, 17 mai 2011 - 09:18 .

[ipgd]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

Giving both s/s and m/f choices in the same dialog wheel is a bad idea from a marketing standpoint. There are people who do not want to see something that doesn't make sense with the Shepard-character they are playing within their dialog choices, especially if the character they are talking to have always been a specific sexuality and didn't present such a choice in previous games. It will make alot of players uncomfortable. And ME3's sale will probably suffer because of it. It needs to cater to the majority, while having new characters that can be possibly bi, but not the older ones.
Now I'm not against it, but I'm just saying that it made many people tilt their head in DA2 when bioware did this sort of thing.

Equality is worth a few lost dollars.

IoCaster wrote...

So you have a problem with choice? Everyone must conform to your view about what is best? Isn't that what the original complaint is?

But it's not more choice. It's the same choice we already have, moved to the front of the character creation screen for the benefit of people who are uncomfortable with homosexuality. It legitimizes their concerns.

"Deal with it" is the only acceptable approach.

[Russalka]

I ask again, what is wrong with just saying no or ignoring the homosexuality?

[Ninja Mage]

Russalka wrote...

I ask again, what is wrong with just saying no or ignoring the homosexuality?

Because if the choice even EXISTS it means that they're straight beer guzzling Shepard is GAY for even thinking it!

[James2912]

Nyoka wrote...

James2912 wrote...

so whats the problem with that. You get what you want they get what they want.

Also gay shepards wound not be hit on by the straight LI's. It saves a lot of people a lot of grief and makes everyone happy.

I don't want to remove heterosexuality, thanks. I don't think it's scary/disgusting/inherently bad writing material/the rest of the stuff people have said in this thread.

Look at this example. Kelly says she trusts you to the point that she could fall and she knows you would be there to catch her. You say:
- I'd embrace you.
- I'd catch you.
- I'd let you fall.

The first one is flirty. The second is okay. The third is mean. Is there something wrong with that system? Is there any reason why this system may work for maleshep but not for femshep?

No thats is completely fine, I am talking about other characters that can ninjamance you ashley and Jack are the two biggest examples if everything worked the way it workded with kelly fine. I have no problem with it.

[thatguy212]

Russalka wrote...

I ask again, what is wrong with just saying no or ignoring the homosexuality?

Because it could end up giving a whopping number of renegade points, 3 maybe even (god forbid) 4

[Ninja Mage]

James2912 wrote...

To me its no different then choosing gender in the beginning of the game but whatever. It seems some people claim they care about choice when they are no different from the anti gay people they just want to push their style of playing on others. 

I'm not trying to force anything on you. Your shepard likes women, thats cool. My shepard likes men, that's cool too. But you want to single out my romance in the beginning of the game so you don't have to deal with bisexual characters. That's not cool.

[Ryzaki]

James2912 wrote...

To me its no different then choosing gender in the beginning of the game but whatever. It seems some people claim they care about choice when they are no different from the anti gay people they just want to push their style of playing on others. 

How is giving you the option to say no (and this is assuming they don't have Shepard iniate the romance which I doubt) forcing it on you? 

Or do you think the heterosexal romances are being forced on people? 

[MACharlie1]

James2912 wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

James2912 wrote...

so whats the problem with that. You get what you want they get what they want.

Also gay shepards wound not be hit on by the straight LI's. It saves a lot of people a lot of grief and makes everyone happy.

I don't want to remove heterosexuality, thanks. I don't think it's scary/disgusting/inherently bad writing material/the rest of the stuff people have said in this thread.

Look at this example. Kelly says she trusts you to the point that she could fall and she knows you would be there to catch her. You say:
- I'd embrace you.
- I'd catch you.
- I'd let you fall.

The first one is flirty. The second is okay. The third is mean. Is there something wrong with that system? Is there any reason why this system may work for maleshep but not for femshep?

No thats is completely fine, I am talking about other characters that can ninjamance you ashley and Jack are the two biggest examples if everything worked the way it workded with kelly fine. I have no problem with it.

Nobody wants to be ninjamanced. That much a good majority agree. But that is just a problem with the writing in general for both hetero/homosexual. Why single out homosexual relationships? 

[IoCaster]

ipgd wrote...


As to the gay toggle: no, because it legitimizes bigotry. Concession to prejudice is unacceptable.

Bullsh!t, it's about choice. You want a choice and maybe someone else wants to have a choice as well. The only thing no choice legitimizes is an authoritarian worldview. Just because someone else makes a contrary choice to your preference doesn't make them a bigot. You're taking this to a level consistent with reeducation camps and/or sensitivity training. Someone doesn't conform to your way of thinking and they're supposedly mentally unbalanced or deficient? There's something wrong with them, so let's label them homophobic, misogynist, etc,..

[M-Sinistrari]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Please read my post before you make groundless assumptions.

You suggest a function be implemented which dictates what content the player be exposed to during gameplay, i.e straight characters wouldn't have to "suffer" advances from bi or gay characters, and vice versa.

I say that function is offensive to anyone of any sexual orientation seeing as it willfully excludes their particular orientation for the benefit of a particular player.

Can you not see what is problematic about that?

To play a little Devil's advocate here on this point, doesn't being against a toggle option seem like 'I don't want someone playing the way I don't want them to'?

For example, me doing a speed run, being able to toggle straight/gay/asexual would help on that particular playthrough and I wouldn't be using it on a more detailed playthrough.

/end devil's advocacy

Now to pose the question, if a toggle option ends up being the only workable comprimise when the time comes, is that a dealbreaker?

[Centauri2002]

James2912 wrote...

To me its no different then choosing gender in the beginning of the game but whatever. It seems some people claim they care about choice when they are no different from the anti gay people they just want to push their style of playing on others. 

Because gender affects your character model, sexuality does not.

There is already a sexuality switch within the game. It's your dialogue choices. You can choose to pursue heterosexual relationships or not.

As long as BioWare make it so Shepard initiates romances, there shouldn't be a problem.

[James2912]

Ninja Mage wrote...

James2912 wrote...

To me its no different then choosing gender in the beginning of the game but whatever. It seems some people claim they care about choice when they are no different from the anti gay people they just want to push their style of playing on others. 

I'm not trying to force anything on you. Your shepard likes women, thats cool. My shepard likes men, that's cool too. But you want to single out my romance in the beginning of the game so you don't have to deal with bisexual characters. That's not cool.

Nope not what I'm trying to do at all. I'm trying to make it so that all the characters can be Bi without ruining the game for straight people. But there is another route to go about it, by having certain new characters bi which is what Hudson was hinting at.

[LiquidGrape]

James2912 wrote...

To me its no different then choosing gender in the beginning of the game but whatever.

Well, what I think it comes down to is this:

Personally, I don't think there would be anything wrong with ticking a box during character creation to establish the sexuality of ones Shepard.
In fact, that might lead to some interesting context-sensitive dialogue on the subject, seeing as you could inform the game of another facet of your character.
Say, a lesbian Shepard discussing women in the company of a straight male squad member.
Done right, that could definitely add some more substance to the characters and relationships in the game.

What would be less appropriate is if this box were to function as a censor, omitting content of which any particular player might disapprove.

[Servo to the bitter end]

James2912 wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...

James2912 wrote...

To me its no different then choosing gender in the beginning of the game but whatever. It seems some people claim they care about choice when they are no different from the anti gay people they just want to push their style of playing on others. 

I'm not trying to force anything on you. Your shepard likes women, thats cool. My shepard likes men, that's cool too. But you want to single out my romance in the beginning of the game so you don't have to deal with bisexual characters. That's not cool.

Nope not what I'm trying to do at all. I'm trying to make it so that all the characters can be Bi without ruining the game for straight people. But there is another route to go about it, by having certain new characters bi which is what Hudson was hinting at.

Or just not choosing the clearly flirty dialogue options when they come up.

This is like having a Paragon/Renegade toggle at character creation to determine your alignment.

[Ghost Warrior]

TommyServo wrote...


I don't think there's anything else to say. I don't agree with you, and I think you're wrong - objectively, morally, by any measurement, you're in the wrong. There's no rational basis to disapprove of homosexuality. Kudos for sticking to your incorrect convictions? I can't comprehend anyone being proud of the statements you've made.

This one is strictly subjective. You see,I can't comprehend your approval of homosexuality,you can't comprehend my disapproval. Let's leave it at that.

I also don't think it breaks continuity. You think it does. I don't think that making a character bi "changes" anything, because we have different ideas about sexuality (again, I feel that you have demonstrably "wrong" ideas). I think there's plenty of room for these characters to expand, and Bioware has some great writers. Besides, my viewpoint allows for, say, Kaidan, to be full on straight or full on gay in different games, because each playthrough is it's own isolated universe.

You don't think that when some character doesn't show even the slightest indication of bisexuality during two games,but gets in bed with one of his sex in third game breakes continuity? Oh,I believe it does.

Again - Shepard has been gay or bi since the very beginning. Femshep could express this - MShep could not. They're two sides of the same coin, so that didn't make sense. Now they've fixed it. Better late than never.

If they were bi/gay,why weren't they able to express,but now suddenly are? "better late than ever" doesn't cut it.

[IoCaster]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

JetsoverEverything wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

What a trainwreck this whole subject is and it's so predictable that it makes my teeth itch. The complete story/plot of the series has taken a nose-dive into a bottomless sinkhole of stupidity and this gay romance crap is what BroWare decides to devote dev time to shoehorning into the finale? Quelle surprise!

Didn't this all get argued on the DA2 board? I wasn't paying much attention because I knew the game was going to suck, but IIRC someone made a suggestion to include a toggle or choice at the start of the game to nix the gay option. That seemed like a reasonable alternative. If it's all a question of inclusion and choice then make it an actual 'choice'.

Here ya go...

Selection screen for a new or imported character:

Male
Colonist
Sole Survivor
Gay - <yes>/<no> ?

If you choose <yes> then you get all of the dialogue options to pursue the gay romances in the game.

If you choose <no> then a flag is set and those dialogue options don't come up. Players that don't want any gay dialogue don't have to expose themselves to any homosexual content in the game. 

What's the problem with that solution?

people will still complain.

About what exactly? Complain about choice?

They find that idea insulting for some reasons.

In that case I want a black person toggle. It isn't normal for a black man to be so educated as Jacob or Anderson are. With this toggle, their complexion automatically turns into the perfect anglo-saxan that I feel fits the reality better. <_<

Right because sex orientation and skin complexion are synonymous. Sorry, but that's pretty damn silly.

[Tup3x]

Russalka wrote...

I ask again, what is wrong with just saying no or ignoring the homosexuality?

That's the good think though. People can say make their Shepard to say nay or yay. I'll choose nay for my Sheps, be it male or female.

Modifié par Tup3xi, 17 mai 2011 - 09:28 .