6696 réponses à ce sujet

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ah, the toggle. The please-give-me-two-layers-of-protection-from-accidental-gay-exposure plea. Heavy sigh.

Some of us are more likely to take the abstinence-based approach.

[MACharlie1]

Ghost Warrior wrote...
II just don't think homosexuality is "normal",and basic biology confirms that. Call this is a stupid reason(as I know you will),but it's enough for me. By the way,haven't you ever faced something that felt wrong,although you weren't quite sure what reason for that may be? I can understand a man loving another man,but strictly as a friend. Them two having romantic/sexual relationship is something I can't see as something normal. But that doesn't mean I find them less worthy then me,some of them may be smarter and more capable than I am. I just don't like that major part of their personality,and I have every right not to.

Which is why a mans g-spot happens to be located up his butt hole...(prostate) 

[James2912]

Wow how insecure people are. Anybody that disagrees with you is a homophobe, oh wait nobody is disagreeing that there should be gay romances, they are only saying they don't want Garrus or other male characters to hit on them. Having a sexuality option at the beginning would help that, or they could just not have ninjamances. But no next you'll be saying that anybody that doesn't play as a gay shepard is a homophobe. For godsakes some of you are worse than the religious fanatics. Play as a a gay shepard, romance any he,she,or it you want. don't insist that everyone has to have homosexuality shoved in their face in a goddamn video game.

[Ryzaki]

JediMB wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

The only one I can think of is possibly Anders which sounds like someone wasn't paying attention to the icon.

Picking a certain diplomatic option in a certain convo apparently results in him flirting with you. I never actually had that happen to me as I play a snarky Hawke, but seems like a mislabel. Bioware could have done better there.

Indeed the diplomatic option should've been labeled with a heart in that conversation. 

But the diplomatic option wasn't a flirt...

Maybe not but there's other flirt options that aren't. (Looks at the teaching Fenris to read option) 

[SennenScale]

JediMB wrote...

SennenScale wrote...
Picking a certain diplomatic option in a certain convo apparently results in him flirting with you. I never actually had that happen to me as I play a snarky Hawke, but seems like a mislabel. Bioware could have done better there.

It's more a matter of people needing to chill the **** out than BioWare making a mistake.

I gladly picked the heartbreak option because Anders expected me to be honest with him, and so I was. Too bad for him that it wasn't the response he wanted, but a couple of Rivalry points certainly aren't going to kill me.

I agree with that. I don't necessarily think having him hit on you once is horrible or even a mistake, necessarily. It's not a big deal to gain some rivalry. That does seem like a genuine mislabel of a dialogue option though. The icons are there to help us gauge Hawke's intent, be it romantic, nice, agressive, or silly, are they not?

[IoCaster]

ipgd wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

Again I call bullsh!t. You've made the case that choice is an important component of changing the game for your benefit. Now you seem to want to claim that the concern of an opposing viewpoint is not legitimate. I'm sure that you've got a mirror handy. Go ahead and take a glance at it.

It should not be legitimized by Bioware, no.

Again, choice has nothing to do with it, because it's still the same exact choice. All this change would do is move the point at which you make the choice. It's a purely political decision which I object to on political grounds.

Well, that's as obvious an admission of your agenda as I'm sure some people on this forum had already concluded. Why not come to the side of freedom though? Let's make 'choices' legitimate across the full ideological spectrum. We can still get along and respect each other while not seeking to claim that an opposing viewpoint is inherently illegitimate. Live and let live, n'est-ce pas?

Also, let's make an attempt to break free of the chains that necessitate dismissing opposing viewpoints as somehow illegitimate. A free and open exchange of ideas shouldn't be initially stymied by casting aspersions on the motivations of the participants.

[Ryzaki]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ah, the toggle. The please-give-me-two-layers-of-protection-from-accidental-gay-exposure plea. Heavy sigh.

Some of us are more likely to take the abstinence-based approach.

However did you manage in Dragon Age?

[Darthbill52]

They didnt learn from DAII, I had such hope for ME3 but I dunno ...I can't place it but has bioware done something ....I can't Place it. Maybe if I had a picture...



Nope still nothing , lol

[ipgd]

James2912 wrote...

Wow how insecure people are. Anybody that disagrees with you is a homophobe, oh wait nobody is disagreeing that there should be gay romances, they are only saying they don't want Garrus or other male characters to hit on them. Having a sexuality option at the beginning would help that, or they could just not have ninjamances. But no next you'll be saying that anybody that doesn't play as a gay shepard is a homophobe. For godsakes some of you are worse than the religious fanatics. Play as a a gay shepard, romance any he,she,or it you want. don't insist that everyone has to have homosexuality shoved in their face in a goddamn video game.

Nobody said anything like that. Yet again, you are reading into things that aren't there. Chill pill, bro.

[Cootie]

James2912 wrote...

Wow how insecure people are. Anybody that disagrees with you is a homophobe, oh wait nobody is disagreeing that there should be gay romances, they are only saying they don't want Garrus or other male characters to hit on them. Having a sexuality option at the beginning would help that, or they could just not have ninjamances. But no next you'll be saying that anybody that doesn't play as a gay shepard is a homophobe. For godsakes some of you are worse than the religious fanatics. Play as a a gay shepard, romance any he,she,or it you want. don't insist that everyone has to have homosexuality shoved in their face in a goddamn video game.

You must understand the context of which this discussion is taking place. These are fans that have faced these kinds of arguments over and over and over again for months without an end. And when they are promised SOMETHING (keep in mind that we still don't know what that something is) their cries of joy are piled up with a lot of protests and, if I may, heartless and disgusting commentary.

Keep in mind that you have had fifty cookies for two games where as the gay Shepards have had thirty, not quite amounting to your pile. Then, all of a sudden, they are given twenty cookies and people are trying to deny them that. Or go "Oh, please, they only deserve ten more cookies."

People are tense. This is a debate that has gone on for quite some time. They are tired of the same old argument.
And I would be thrilled if we could just stop shouting the same things back and forth and move on to a discussion, rather than an argument.

[Ryzaki]

James2912 wrote...

Wow how insecure people are. Anybody that disagrees with you is a homophobe, oh wait nobody is disagreeing that there should be gay romances, they are only saying they don't want Garrus or other male characters to hit on them. Having a sexuality option at the beginning would help that, or they could just not have ninjamances. But no next you'll be saying that anybody that doesn't play as a gay shepard is a homophobe. For godsakes some of you are worse than the religious fanatics. Play as a a gay shepard, romance any he,she,or it you want. don't insist that everyone has to have homosexuality shoved in their face in a goddamn video game.

So you'e saying with this toggle it's perfectly acceptable to have an all bisexual crew then? Make all the past LIs bisexual since people can toggle it off? 

[James2912]

ipgd wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Wow how insecure people are. Anybody that disagrees with you is a homophobe, oh wait nobody is disagreeing that there should be gay romances, they are only saying they don't want Garrus or other male characters to hit on them. Having a sexuality option at the beginning would help that, or they could just not have ninjamances. But no next you'll be saying that anybody that doesn't play as a gay shepard is a homophobe. For godsakes some of you are worse than the religious fanatics. Play as a a gay shepard, romance any he,she,or it you want. don't insist that everyone has to have homosexuality shoved in their face in a goddamn video game.

Nobody said anything like that. Yet again, you are reading into things that aren't there. Chill pill, bro.

that ninja guy said that he hopes gay garrus will ninjamance people. 

[JediMB]

SennenScale wrote...

JediMB wrote...

SennenScale wrote...
Picking a certain diplomatic option in a certain convo apparently results in him flirting with you. I never actually had that happen to me as I play a snarky Hawke, but seems like a mislabel. Bioware could have done better there.

It's more a matter of people needing to chill the **** out than BioWare making a mistake.

I gladly picked the heartbreak option because Anders expected me to be honest with him, and so I was. Too bad for him that it wasn't the response he wanted, but a couple of Rivalry points certainly aren't going to kill me.

I agree with that. I don't necessarily think having him hit on you once is horrible or even a mistake, necessarily. It's not a big deal to gain some rivalry. That does seem like a genuine mislabel of a dialogue option though. The icons are there to help us gauge Hawke's intent, be it romantic, nice, agressive, or silly, are they not?

I don't see how it would be a mislabel. Hawke was just being nice/diplomatic, and Anders liked that. It reminded Anders of the Warden, and that's why he became all flirty. Sometimes the results don't match your intents. (Just look at how the game itself ended.)

Modifié par JediMB, 17 mai 2011 - 10:05 .

[James2912]

Ryzaki wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Wow how insecure people are. Anybody that disagrees with you is a homophobe, oh wait nobody is disagreeing that there should be gay romances, they are only saying they don't want Garrus or other male characters to hit on them. Having a sexuality option at the beginning would help that, or they could just not have ninjamances. But no next you'll be saying that anybody that doesn't play as a gay shepard is a homophobe. For godsakes some of you are worse than the religious fanatics. Play as a a gay shepard, romance any he,she,or it you want. don't insist that everyone has to have homosexuality shoved in their face in a goddamn video game.

So you'e saying with this toggle it's perfectly acceptable to have an all bisexual crew then? Make all the past LIs bisexual since people can toggle it off? 

Yes with this toggle its perfectly reasonable to have ALL THE LI's BE BI/GAY. And even if you turned it so your shep was straight if Bioware created an exclusively gay character he would still of course be in the game, just not romancible and he wouldn't hit on you. James Vega for example.

Modifié par James2912, 17 mai 2011 - 10:07 .

[ipgd]

IoCaster wrote...

ipgd wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

Again I call bullsh!t. You've made the case that choice is an important component of changing the game for your benefit. Now you seem to want to claim that the concern of an opposing viewpoint is not legitimate. I'm sure that you've got a mirror handy. Go ahead and take a glance at it.

It should not be legitimized by Bioware, no.

Again, choice has nothing to do with it, because it's still the same exact choice. All this change would do is move the point at which you make the choice. It's a purely political decision which I object to on political grounds.

Well, that's as obvious an admission of your agenda as I'm sure some people on this forum had already concluded. Why not come to the side of freedom though? Let's make 'choices' legitimate across the full ideological spectrum. We can still get along and respect each other while not seeking to claim that an opposing viewpoint is inherently illegitimate. Live and let live, n'est-ce pas?

Also, let's make an attempt to break free of the chains that necessitate dismissing opposing viewpoints as somehow illegitimate. A free and open exchange of ideas shouldn't be initially stymied by casting aspersions on the motivations of the participants.

As I said before:

It's nice to think "let's all just get along and respect eachother!", but it's also pretty naive. Blacks in America didn't beat the worst of their prejudice by calmly accepting that hating someone for the color of their skin is a valid opinion, they got there by being really loud about it and getting enough non-black people on their side that it became socially unacceptable to be racist. Homophobia will not go away until expressing these sentiments has negative social consequences and we stop giving bigots the time of day and legitimacy. That is how it works.

So, no, I don't accept viewpoints motivated by prejudice to be legitimate. Opinions are not sacred and not all of them deserve respect.

[Siansonea]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ah, the toggle. The please-give-me-two-layers-of-protection-from-accidental-gay-exposure plea. Heavy sigh.

Some of us are more likely to take the abstinence-based approach.

You can still do that without a toggle. Can you really not understand when Shepard is about to flirt with somebody?

You can even still talk to them. You can say, "hey, how are you doing, are you sad?" "Happy?" "Can I address your daddy issues?" "Can I reunite you with your son/daughter so you can reconcile/kill him/her?" You can do all of that without falling into a 70s porno. I think people who find it hard to avoid romance are people who find it hard to understand basic social cues. I never accidentally romanced anybody. Well, I almost romanced Jacob, but then I was all "Whatevs, Jacob, OMG" and he was all "Whatevs, Shepard, you are so uncool" and wouldn't talk to me anymore. So all's well that ends well. 

[ipgd]

James2912 wrote...

that ninja guy said that he hopes gay garrus will ninjamance people. 

That... was probably a joke, dear.

[IoCaster]

VoidCabbage wrote...

IoCaster wrote...

ipgd wrote...


As to the gay toggle: no, because it legitimizes bigotry. Concession to prejudice is unacceptable.

Bullsh!t, it's about choice. You want a choice and maybe someone else wants to have a choice as well. The only thing no choice legitimizes is an authoritarian worldview. Just because someone else makes a contrary choice to your preference doesn't make them a bigot. You're taking this to a level consistent with reeducation camps and/or sensitivity training. Someone doesn't conform to your way of thinking and they're supposedly mentally unbalanced or deficient? There's something wrong with them, so let's label them homophobic, misogynist, etc,..

The toggle thing only becomes an issue when its for just homosexuality or bisexuality. If we were given a choice for all relationships then it becomes a non issue. Although a new arises in that its suddenly breaking the fourth wall asking you who you want to be straight or gay whatever. 

In Mass Effect you control Shepard but you do not control the world around him, and changing that would be a continuity stab in the face for all that worry about that.

Also prejudice implies that someone has formed an opinion without truly understanding something. I`ve never met anyone who supports forming opinions before understanding something. So your statement about authoritarian/reeducation camps is invalid.

So what you're saying is that your understanding is more valid than mine? And also you get to choose your gender when you start a game. How is that different from also choosing your sexual orientation/preference? If you don't mind my asking, do you have an agenda?

[Ryzaki]

James2912 wrote...

Yes with this toggle its perfectly reasonable to have ALL THE LI's BE BI/GAY. And even if you turned it so your shep was straight if Bioware created an exclusively gay character he would still of course be in the game, just not romancable and he wouldn't hit on you. James Vega for example

 

But...I don't want anyone hitting on my Shep period. Gay or straight. :/ 

[highcastle]

JediMB wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

JediMB wrote...

SennenScale wrote...
Picking a certain diplomatic option in a certain convo apparently results in him flirting with you. I never actually had that happen to me as I play a snarky Hawke, but seems like a mislabel. Bioware could have done better there.

It's more a matter of people needing to chill the **** out than BioWare making a mistake.

I gladly picked the heartbreak option because Anders expected me to be honest with him, and so I was. Too bad for him that it wasn't the response he wanted, but a couple of Rivalry points certainly aren't going to kill me.

I agree with that. I don't necessarily think having him hit on you once is horrible or even a mistake, necessarily. It's not a big deal to gain some rivalry. That does seem like a genuine mislabel of a dialogue option though. The icons are there to help us gauge Hawke's intent, be it romantic, nice, agressive, or silly, are they not?

I don't see how it would be a mislabel. Hawke was just being nice/diplomatic, and Anders liked that. It reminded Anders of the Warden, and that's why he became all flirty. Sometimes the results don't match your intents. (Just look at how the game itself ended.)

Not to mention the extent of his flirting is to say "beneath that scruffy exterior, it seems you have a bit of a heart of gold yourself." Wow. Hardcore flirt right there. Very intimidating. And he immediately follows it by apologizing and saying he shouldn't have presumed. Yes, you get minor rivalry if you turn him down. I don't think anyone responds to a let down with approval. Some part of you will always be disappointed. But honestly, with the amount of points up for grab in that game, it's not a big deal. I was happy to see some of my companions express their interest.

Also of note is the fact that Izzy flirts with both genders too, yet there are remarkably few complaints about her. Double standards. Got to watch out for them.

[James2912]

Ryzaki wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Yes with this toggle its perfectly reasonable to have ALL THE LI's BE BI/GAY. And even if you turned it so your shep was straight if Bioware created an exclusively gay character he would still of course be in the game, just not romancable and he wouldn't hit on you. James Vega for example

 

But...I don't want anyone hitting on my Shep period. Gay or straight. :/ 

Me too the above is just one of many options. 

[Ryzaki]

James2912 wrote...
Me too the above is just one of many options. 

Really though the best thing for BW to do would be clear and coherent player initiated romances. 

Most of us agree on that right? 

Poll

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2011 - 10:14 .

[Cootie]

I'll just... come back to this thread once all of the disgusting censorship-discussing is over with and we have evolved past that.

Sometime after ME-3's release, no doubt.

[Ninja Mage]

James2912 wrote...

Wow how insecure people are. Anybody that disagrees with you is a homophobe, oh wait nobody is disagreeing that there should be gay romances, they are only saying they don't want Garrus or other male characters to hit on them. Having a sexuality option at the beginning would help that, or they could just not have ninjamances. But no next you'll be saying that anybody that doesn't play as a gay shepard is a homophobe. For godsakes some of you are worse than the religious fanatics. Play as a a gay shepard, romance any he,she,or it you want. don't insist that everyone has to have homosexuality shoved in their face in a goddamn video game.

Dude I hope you click the wrong thing and Garrus grabs your shep and sticks his alien tongue down his throat just so you can be pissed off