6696 réponses à ce sujet

[InvincibleHero]

Posted this in another thread how about Shepard summons your choice for a one on one in cabin via computer console? Segregate all the romance from the main plot stuff. Not guaranteed to get what you want though. It might work out in an epic way.

[MACharlie1]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Posted this in another thread how about Shepard summons your choice for a one on one in cabin via computer console? Segregate all the romance from the main plot stuff. Not guaranteed to get what you want though. It might work out in an epic way.

So all of the squadmates who are "romanceable" would be called up for their romance dialog while their normal, run of the mill dialog would be in their personal station on the Normandy. 

This...I like. Wouldn't mind it in the slightest. Just two issues which probably aren't that important. The first being that there should be one hit in the normal dialog that makes it clear that they are a romance option. Sets the interest. Just one. Failure to pursue in cabin results in no romance. The second being, and I thought this as I was typing, this kind of rings of a porno scene. Boss calls his employee to the office since she isn't performing well and she wants to know how she can make it up. Obviously not but it does sound a little bit skeevy on Shepards part.  

[ipgd]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

And that's how change happens - something gets put in the first time which offends a lot of people, letters get written, people get disgusted, but then the world entirely fails to end, and the ten year old who sees it grows up to think that the world was always that way, that women could always be commanders, and that's freaking beautiful. That's the beauty of the future, of science fiction, and of art.

That's why putting an openly gay person who cannot be toggled off into a game is good: it starts a road to people accepting such a thing as normal. Being able to turn it off is like selling a special TV that goes black when Mary Tyler Moore wears pants, or when Kirk and Uhura kiss.

Basically, this.

And now I am going to sleep.

[M-Sinistrari]

MACharlie1 wrote...

So all of the squadmates who are "romanceable" would be called up for their romance dialog while their normal, run of the mill dialog would be in their personal station on the Normandy. 

This...I like. Wouldn't mind it in the slightest. Just two issues which probably aren't that important. The first being that there should be one hit in the normal dialog that makes it clear that they are a romance option. Sets the interest. Just one. Failure to pursue in cabin results in no romance. The second being, and I thought this as I was typing, this kind of rings of a porno scene. Boss calls his employee to the office since she isn't performing well and she wants to know how she can make it up. Obviously not but it does sound a little bit skeevy on Shepards part.  

Cheesy porn scenario aside, it would actually make a sort of sense if Shep's still following the non-fraternization regs to some degree.

Though it would amuse the hell out of me to have Shep get called out on favouritism to the LI.

[InvincibleHero]

MACharlie1 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Posted this in another thread how about Shepard summons your choice for a one on one in cabin via computer console? Segregate all the romance from the main plot stuff. Not guaranteed to get what you want though. It might work out in an epic way.

So all of the squadmates who are "romanceable" would be called up for their romance dialog while their normal, run of the mill dialog would be in their personal station on the Normandy. 

This...I like. Wouldn't mind it in the slightest. Just two issues which probably aren't that important. The first being that there should be one hit in the normal dialog that makes it clear that they are a romance option. Sets the interest. Just one. Failure to pursue in cabin results in no romance. The second being, and I thought this as I was typing, this kind of rings of a porno scene. Boss calls his employee to the office since she isn't performing well and she wants to know how she can make it up. Obviously not but it does sound a little bit skeevy on Shepards part.  

Something like this

Make it you reach a certain point in game between missions you get basically told choose who you want when you log-on. I guess an e-mail from a dating serivce might work. LOL They come in but caveat they might not be receptive depending on their proclivities and how you treated them.

If you fail then I think you should get a second choice or until you get someone. Once locked-in no going back. I don't think if you romanced and left someone in a small close-knit crew #2 is going to think well Shep dumped #1 like a hot potato maybe not good idea.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

See, part of what I like about LIs in Mass Effect is the casualness of the lead-up conversations. That's why ME1 Kaidan and ME2 Garrus are my favorite LIs...

Instead of the cabin thing, what if we had something like gifts in Dark Age... say a letter. You can pick to send your crew members notes from your console, in one of two "tones."
[Send Flirty note]
[Send Friendly note]

If you send someone a flirty note, they will have the option to flirt with you, or you will have the option to begin romance dialogue with them. This way, you can play with flirting, but only with the characters you choose. So if in your mind Tali being interested in any Shepard is a retcon, never send her a flirty note and she won't ever express interest in you. You can choose to send every available LI a flirty note, or none of them and keep it professional, or you can send a flirty note to both Jack and Miranda and watch them fight over you, if that's your thing. If you do this kind of a "gating" thing, it would allow for the gradual, immersive, deep love interest development that ME1 had, where it really seemed to progress naturally through conversation. But people who didn't want Kaidan flirting with them for the entire game wouldn't have to Virmire him to make sure he didn't come visit them before Ilos.

I don't think this is a perfect solution, but it's better than having romances occur exclusively in your bedroom.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 18 mai 2011 - 06:03 .

[InvincibleHero]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

See, part of what I like about LIs in Mass Effect is the casualness of the lead-up conversations. That's why ME1 Kaidan and ME2 Garrus are my favorite LIs...

Instead of the cabin thing, what if we had something like gifts in Dark Age... say a letter. You can pick to send your crew members notes from your console, in one of two "tones."
[Send Flirty note]
[Send Friendly note]

If you send someone a flirty note, they will have the option to flirt with you, or you will have the option to begin romance dialogue with them. This way, you can play with flirting, but only with the characters you choose. So if in your mind Tali being interested in any Shepard is a retcon, never send her a flirty note and she won't ever express interest in you. You can choose to send every available LI a flirty note, or none of them and keep it professional, or you can send a flirty note to both Jack and Miranda and watch them fight over you, if that's your thing.

I don't think this is a perfect solution, but it's better than having romances occur exclusively in your bedroom.

Well that would be the most private place on the ship. It could be other places just request sets up romance dialog. I guess you could then go down to them, but makes more sense crew goes to Shep I think.

Yeah but sending flirt to Garrus as male Shep could epic fail if he isn't receptive. Imagine if he shared it with the rest of the crew. Good times.

[HolyMoogle]

I think that colored text/logos indicative of the direction of the conversation is sufficient. It's simple enough for anybody to grasp (anybody who doesn't need to take up a quieter hobby, like knitting, that is). Segregating it too much from the rest of the game would just make it feel completely artificial and meta. Like a spreadsheet - Please select love interest. Are you sure you would like to save this love interest?

[PMC65]

OK guys, I do not want my games to be a teachable moment ... or a political statement.

For me, Mass Effect is a place to go where I can be an awesome & fearless fighter ... No bills, no stress (except when fighting husks & scions ... and Praetorians), no hassles ... and NO teachable moments! In short, it is my escape and playtime!

I don't think that Bioware is making a political statement ... they are just adding an option for some of their fan base. I also trust that if your Shepard is a straight Shepard he will still be a straight Shepard and if your Shepard is gay then there you go ... the twain shall never meet.

Back on topic ........

No matter who we romance, can we please have more than a dalliance at the end? That really will suck if we are forced to wait till the end again. "No Ash, I will not wait until after the reapers dammit! Get over here and let me show you what Jack & I did just once"               And can we have a couple "cuddles"?

Just sayin' ......

[MACharlie1]

InvincibleHero wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

See, part of what I like about LIs in Mass Effect is the casualness of the lead-up conversations. That's why ME1 Kaidan and ME2 Garrus are my favorite LIs...

Instead of the cabin thing, what if we had something like gifts in Dark Age... say a letter. You can pick to send your crew members notes from your console, in one of two "tones."
[Send Flirty note]
[Send Friendly note]

If you send someone a flirty note, they will have the option to flirt with you, or you will have the option to begin romance dialogue with them. This way, you can play with flirting, but only with the characters you choose. So if in your mind Tali being interested in any Shepard is a retcon, never send her a flirty note and she won't ever express interest in you. You can choose to send every available LI a flirty note, or none of them and keep it professional, or you can send a flirty note to both Jack and Miranda and watch them fight over you, if that's your thing.

I don't think this is a perfect solution, but it's better than having romances occur exclusively in your bedroom.

Well that would be the most private place on the ship. It could be other places just request sets up romance dialog. I guess you could then go down to them, but makes more sense crew goes to Shep I think.

Yeah but sending flirt to Garrus as male Shep could epic fail if he isn't receptive. Imagine if he shared it with the rest of the crew. Good times.

I want to send one to Grunt. 

[InvincibleHero]

PMC65 wrote...

OK guys, I do not want my games to be a teachable moment ... or a political statement.

For me, Mass Effect is a place to go where I can be an awesome & fearless fighter ... No bills, no stress (except when fighting husks & scions ... and Praetorians), no hassles ... and NO teachable moments! In short, it is my escape and playtime!

I don't think that Bioware is making a political statement ... they are just adding an option for some of their fan base. I also trust that if your Shepard is a straight Shepard he will still be a straight Shepard and if your Shepard is gay then there you go ... the twain shall never meet.

Back on topic ........

No matter who we romance, can we please have more than a dalliance at the end? That really will suck if we are forced to wait till the end again. "No Ash, I will not wait until after the reapers dammit! Get over here and let me show you what Jack & I did just once"               And can we have a couple "cuddles"?

Just sayin' ......

Yeah I would like more interaction. With segregation they can really customize the experience. Say 50% in the game you declare to your LI then things change. You get more interactivity with them. They may be miffed if you leave them on ship, some private time in Shep's love lodge in-between missions, and so on.

[SennenScale]

HolyMoogle wrote...

I think that colored text/logos indicative of the direction of the conversation is sufficient. It's simple enough for anybody to grasp (anybody who doesn't need to take up a quieter hobby, like knitting, that is). Segregating it too much from the rest of the game would just make it feel completely artificial and meta. Like a spreadsheet - Please select love interest. Are you sure you would like to save this love interest?

It ought to be something that can't be mistaken for much else. Say, every romance dialogue, gay or straight, will be trigged by a pink colored text on the left side of the screen. That prevents everyone from accidentally romancing a character and if they have a problem with the pink option just being there, the hell with them.

The poll I posted showed more support for a color coded flirt than the DA <3's so it seems like a fair idea.

PMC65 wrote...
No matter who we romance, can we please have
more than a dalliance at the end? That really will suck if we are forced
to wait till the end again. "No Ash, I will not wait until after the
reapers dammit! Get over here and let me show you what Jack & I did
just once" ../../../images/forum/emoticons/surprised.png              And can we have a couple "cuddles"? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/blushing.png

Just sayin' ......

I would love that to death. Especially if there is playable epilogue, though I don't think there will be.

[IoCaster]

What it all seems to come down to is 'choice'. Those that fought for same sex romances wanted that 'choice' and got it. Now they would seek to deny anyone else a 'choice'. The hypocrisy and double standard is a chilling revelation. It's not about convincing anyone of anything, but imposing a viewpoint. That's pretty sad.

[M-Sinistrari]

PMC65 wrote...

OK guys, I do not want my games to be a teachable moment ... or a political statement.

For me, Mass Effect is a place to go where I can be an awesome & fearless fighter ... No bills, no stress (except when fighting husks & scions ... and Praetorians), no hassles ... and NO teachable moments! In short, it is my escape and playtime!

I don't think that Bioware is making a political statement ... they are just adding an option for some of their fan base. I also trust that if your Shepard is a straight Shepard he will still be a straight Shepard and if your Shepard is gay then there you go ... the twain shall never meet.

Back on topic ........

No matter who we romance, can we please have more than a dalliance at the end? That really will suck if we are forced to wait till the end again. "No Ash, I will not wait until after the reapers dammit! Get over here and let me show you what Jack & I did just once"               And can we have a couple "cuddles"?

Just sayin' ......

Flinging around the common sense, eh?  Hope it lasts.:happy:

[CulturalGeekGirl]

MACharlie1 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

See, part of what I like about LIs in Mass Effect is the casualness of the lead-up conversations. That's why ME1 Kaidan and ME2 Garrus are my favorite LIs...

Instead of the cabin thing, what if we had something like gifts in Dark Age... say a letter. You can pick to send your crew members notes from your console, in one of two "tones."
[Send Flirty note]
[Send Friendly note]

If you send someone a flirty note, they will have the option to flirt with you, or you will have the option to begin romance dialogue with them. This way, you can play with flirting, but only with the characters you choose. So if in your mind Tali being interested in any Shepard is a retcon, never send her a flirty note and she won't ever express interest in you. You can choose to send every available LI a flirty note, or none of them and keep it professional, or you can send a flirty note to both Jack and Miranda and watch them fight over you, if that's your thing.

I don't think this is a perfect solution, but it's better than having romances occur exclusively in your bedroom.

Well that would be the most private place on the ship. It could be other places just request sets up romance dialog. I guess you could then go down to them, but makes more sense crew goes to Shep I think.

Yeah but sending flirt to Garrus as male Shep could epic fail if he isn't receptive. Imagine if he shared it with the rest of the crew. Good times.

I want to send one to Grunt. 

Depending on the design, flirty emails could only be available for actual LIs. You could also add in a [professional note] to lock in a Renegade style "I run this ship military!" relationship. Hehe.

The thing I like about Mass Effect is that some of the flirty dialogue in 1 didn't seem that flirty. Like... I think having a conversation with Kaidan about old sci fi novels was part of his romance. And with Jack, talking with her about her problems was also part of the romance. I like it when the earlier parts of a romance are sort of will-they-or-won't-they feeling, even if we know how it's actually going to end.

I didn't romance Thane because I felt like it was moving weirdly fast. I just met you, and you're calling me pet names and holding my hand in the cargo bay? Sheesh. Even though you explicitly bring up sex with Garrus, it's still not serious and can be called off at any time without hurting anything... until you actually have him come up to your quarters, and things get "real." 

One of my favorite things in the ME1 romances is Kaidan's stumbling accidental flirtations when he realizes he accidentally told you you were beautiful or something like that. This would happen during walking around situational dialogue, not just during normal conversations with him. The Flirty Email (Or whatever token/gift/etc system you want) to unlock romance dialogue would allow something like that to still happen.  If I unlock romance dialogue for both Kaidan and Ashley, they can both flirt with me in that way, hypothetically, until I actually choose one to romance. (Just using them as an example because they were actively flirty in their incidental chatter in ME1, and nobody seems to be in ME2.) 

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 18 mai 2011 - 06:23 .

[vimpel]

RaenImrahl wrote...

@vimpel -- no trolling, please.

Seriously just my opinion.

[PMC65]

InvincibleHero wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

No matter who we romance, can we please have more than a dalliance at the end? That really will suck if we are forced to wait till the end again. "No Ash, I will not wait until after the reapers dammit! Get over here and let me show you what Jack & I did just once"               And can we have a couple "cuddles"?

Just sayin' ......

Yeah I would like more interaction. With segregation they can really customize the experience. Say 50% in the game you declare to your LI then things change. You get more interactivity with them. They may be miffed if you leave them on ship, some private time in Shep's love lodge in-between missions, and so on.

I just know that in ME3 the LI will make us wait again until the end and this time they will be wearing a sweater and ski cap ...

 

[PMC65]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

OK guys, I do not want my games to be a teachable moment ... or a political statement.

For me, Mass Effect is a place to go where I can be an awesome & fearless fighter ... No bills, no stress (except when fighting husks & scions ... and Praetorians), no hassles ... and NO teachable moments! In short, it is my escape and playtime!

I don't think that Bioware is making a political statement ... they are just adding an option for some of their fan base. I also trust that if your Shepard is a straight Shepard he will still be a straight Shepard and if your Shepard is gay then there you go ... the twain shall never meet.

Back on topic ........

No matter who we romance, can we please have more than a dalliance at the end? That really will suck if we are forced to wait till the end again. "No Ash, I will not wait until after the reapers dammit! Get over here and let me show you what Jack & I did just once"               And can we have a couple "cuddles"?

Just sayin' ......

Flinging around the common sense, eh?  Hope it lasts.:happy:

Well, I tried ...  

Now I am going back under the table with Liara before the next round  ...

[PMC65]

@CulturalGeekGirl ... I would like the relationships to feel more natural and can they not be so stationary? I would love to just flirt with Liara as we walk around Ilium and if Shepard is already in a relationship with the character can we feel like we are in a relationship? I think that LotSB is heading into the right direction when you look at how you interacted with Liara.

[SilentK]

One or two s/s LI:s really is great. I would be very happy if one of them was an older member of the crew, for me that would be Tali or Ash. But I won't be upset if I don't get it, just keeping my fingers crossed. I really don't believe that they will change the entire crew, I'm just hoping for one change.

Speaking of change. Before DA2 came out I was quite vocal about that every LI shouldn't be available to all. That it was better if there was just two straight and two bi. Then I got DA2 and loved how they made it work. I like to be able to see the personal development of all the LI:s and since I prefer to play a female char this is the first game that I have been able to do this. It's my choice but I haven't seen Morrigan, Ash, Tali, Miranda and Jack and how they develop during a romance, because I prefer playing F!Shep. I didn't think that I would like all of them being available, argued quite a lot against it on the forum. Ended up loving it. In ME there has always been one half of the game I haven't seen. I wouldn't mind if a little bit more of it was available to F!Shep.

I guess players can change as well.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I'm also a bit weird because I'm an old-school science fiction fan, and I'm used to SF that makes you think. Mass Effect is the first video game that I feel has captured that cool, contemplative, metaphorical angle that I found in the Left Hand of Darkness or Stranger in a Strange Land, or Star Trek or Babylon 5.

It's a fun shooter at the same time, but the fact that it tells a story where you can be prejudiced against aliens and where the Batarians can claim that anti-slavery laws are discriminatory marks Mass Effect as something more than a mindless guns-in-space game, for me anyway. Having moments in the game that are analgous to real life stuff but dressed up in Science Fictional set design is one of the best parts of Mass Effect, for me.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 18 mai 2011 - 06:38 .

[PMC65]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

So all of the squadmates who are "romanceable" would be called up for their romance dialog while their normal, run of the mill dialog would be in their personal station on the Normandy. 

This...I like. Wouldn't mind it in the slightest. Just two issues which probably aren't that important. The first being that there should be one hit in the normal dialog that makes it clear that they are a romance option. Sets the interest. Just one. Failure to pursue in cabin results in no romance. The second being, and I thought this as I was typing, this kind of rings of a porno scene. Boss calls his employee to the office since she isn't performing well and she wants to know how she can make it up. Obviously not but it does sound a little bit skeevy on Shepards part.  

Cheesy porn scenario aside, it would actually make a sort of sense if Shep's still following the non-fraternization regs to some degree.

Though it would amuse the hell out of me to have Shep get called out on favouritism to the LI.

That should have happened after Virmire ... "Skipper, it should have been me" "Ash, you know I couldn't leave you." What?

I could just imagine what happened on the next mission ...
Wrex: "Tali, you go on this mission."
Tali: "Why me?"
Wrex: ....
Tali: "Chief Williams is on the team, isn't she?"
Wrex:  
Liara: "Here Tali, wear my Goddess Athame necklace .... er, be careful."

[IoCaster]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

And that's how change happens - something gets put in the first time which offends a lot of people, letters get written, people get disgusted, but then the world entirely fails to end, and the ten year old who sees it grows up to think that the world was always that way, that women could always be commanders, and that's freaking beautiful. That's the beauty of the future, of science fiction, and of art.

That's why putting an openly gay person who cannot be toggled off into a game is good: it starts a road to people accepting such a thing as normal. Being able to turn it off is like selling a special TV that goes black when Mary Tyler Moore wears pants, or when Kirk and Uhura kiss.

This is just an attempt to justify social engineering in a video game. It's not as if homosexuality is hidden from sight in our everyday world. Whatever form of media you consume (TV, Books, Film, etc,..) there's plenty of homosexual representation included.

Why is it such a problem to some that a player would have a choice to toggle off content that they have no interest in? If you have a gay squad member and the player has no interest in triggering a romance they might very well choose not to ever talk to that character. If they're assured that the subject of romance never comes up in the typical ham-fisted fashion in these games then they would be more willing to explore all conversation options without any concern. What's so inherently wrong with giving a player that type of choice?

[Augoeides]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm also a bit weird because I'm an old-school science fiction fan, and I'm used to SF that makes you think. Mass Effect is the first video game that I feel has captured that cool, contemplative, metaphorical angle that I found in the Left Hand of Darkness or Stranger in a Strange Land, or Star Trek or Babylon 5.

It's a fun shooter at the same time, but the fact that it tells a story where you can be prejudiced against aliens and where the Batarians can claim that anti-slavery laws are discriminatory marks Mass Effect as something more than a mindless guns-in-space game, for me anyway. Having moments in the game that are analgous to real life stuff but dressed up in Science Fictional set design is one of the best parts of Mass Effect, for me.

Geth and biotics give it a distinct dash of cyber punk if you ask me, and cyber punk has always been very 'anything goes' relationship wise in my experience.

I think ME certainly tackles political/philosophical issues but not in a way that they're trying to impose or send a message to the player, they confront those issues because it adds to the story of Shepard but also the universe itself.

I think the same sex debate is clearly not apart of those political issues, for us it may be in this day and age, but in game, it's simply Bioware trying to meet the needs of a certain demographic as it did when it reinforced certain elements of the story or gameplay, or as it did when it removed other aspects of gameplay. To say that Bioware shouldn't make a statement on homosexuality and therefore it shouldn't be there or it should be covered up is just a clear dig for justification in the face of it being in-game, it is those who demand it is absent or present in certain forms that are trying to make Bioware make a political choice and therefore statement.

[HolyMoogle]

IoCaster wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

And that's how change happens - something gets put in the first time which offends a lot of people, letters get written, people get disgusted, but then the world entirely fails to end, and the ten year old who sees it grows up to think that the world was always that way, that women could always be commanders, and that's freaking beautiful. That's the beauty of the future, of science fiction, and of art.

That's why putting an openly gay person who cannot be toggled off into a game is good: it starts a road to people accepting such a thing as normal. Being able to turn it off is like selling a special TV that goes black when Mary Tyler Moore wears pants, or when Kirk and Uhura kiss.

This is just an attempt to justify social engineering in a video game. It's not as if homosexuality is hidden from sight in our everyday world. Whatever form of media you consume (TV, Books, Film, etc,..) there's plenty of homosexual representation included.

Why is it such a problem to some that a player would have a choice to toggle off content that they have no interest in? If you have a gay squad member and the player has no interest in triggering a romance they might very well choose not to ever talk to that character. If they're assured that the subject of romance never comes up in the typical ham-fisted fashion in these games then they would be more willing to explore all conversation options without any concern. What's so inherently wrong with giving a player that type of choice?

Why is it such a problem to have a toggle for the possibility of interracial and interreligious relationships?

It's not exactly fair to the intelligence of the majority of the player base to say they cannot grasp the concept of a little heart icon which would spark a romance dialogue tree.

Filtering blood or profanity is one thing, but I don't think Bioware needs to start implementing prejudice filter toggles.