94 réponses à ce sujet

[Antivenger]

Just a query, to those who support Quarians and abhor Geth, is your opinion largely swayed by your love of Tali?

Just a question.

No need to flame me, please.

[Someone With Mass]

I don't hate either of them, because I'm actually capable of having my own opinion.

[GodWood]

Antivenger wrote...
Just a query, to those who support Quarians and abhor Geth, is your opinion largely swayed by your love of Tali?

Just a question.

No need to flame me, please.

I am completly indifferent to Tali

[z4t001]

from a third party perspective the quarians are entirely at fault here. in me3 i will gladly be throwing them away. co-existence is possible but unlikely, because the quarians are really annoying and insecure like that. the geth can be trusted if you are trustworthy. provide no reason for them to eliminate you, and you're fine. they already stated they wish to live peacefully elsewhere.

clearly it would not be ideal. it would be in the quarians interests to help build their sphere contraption and get them as far away as possible. then again, a lot of things have been in the quarians best interests that they have failed to do - i'd imagine theres far too much bigotry among them and they'd never agree as a whole to co-exist with the geth, thus creating the distrust that would eventually lead the geth to eliminating them. not that it would be that bad, anyway. the geth are a far superior race if you assume they are true AI (im not touching that debate, its dumb) and should be the ones living with the council races, the quarians are just dead weight honestly.

[GodWood]

z4t001 wrote...
from a third party perspective the quarians are entirely at fault here.

Wrong.

~ Quarians create geth
~ Geth slowly become more and more advanced until they're smart enought to be considered 'sapient'.
~ In order to prevent Council punishment and to prevent the geth from fighting them it is decided to have the geth shut down.

At this point one 'could' say the quarians are in the wrong.

~ Morning War begins, quarians fight geth, geth fight back.
~ By the time 50% of the quarian population is wiped out they have no chance and are no longer a real threat.
~ Geth continue to attack and destroy billions of innocent quarians, man, woman or child on the basis that they are quarian. Less than 1% manage to escape.



Does that last point sound like the actions of a party that is without fault?

[Smeelia]

I agree that they both made terrible mistakes.  The Quarians hadn't realised the Geth were already sentient/sapient when they started trying to shut them down but when they did realise they continued trying to destroy the Geth rather than trying to negotiate.  The Geth were justified in defending themselves but went much too far (and there's no suggestion that they tried to negotiate either).  Shouting at both to "get over it" seems like the best choice.

There's no reason they can't co-exist, holding onto the mistakes of the past would only result in repeating them.

In terms of being useful to dealing with the Reapers I think the Geth would be most useful since there are more of them and they're well established.  The Geth are most likely also immune to indoctrination.  That said, the Geth don't seem to have any big ships so the Quarian fleet might actually be more useful if we were going to fight the Reapers in fleet battles (although most of it doesn't seem to be well armed and Reapers are quite powerful).

In terms of the argument Legion and Tali are actually having (about Legion stealing Tali's data), I'd tend to side with Tali if I can only pick one.  Stealing the data was a breach of trust in the first place and sending the data might just make things worse (plus it's not a complete picture and the Quarians haven't actually decided on attacking the Geth, although the Geth might understand this if Legion does send the data).

[Sturmwulfe]

GodWood wrote...

z4t001 wrote...
from a third party perspective the quarians are entirely at fault here.

Wrong.

~ Quarians create geth
~ Geth slowly become more and more advanced until they're smart enought to be considered 'sapient'.
~ In order to prevent Council punishment and to prevent the geth from fighting them it is decided to have the geth shut down.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the stigmas and laws about creating AI only put in place after the quarian-geth civil war? If I remember right, that's the reason they lost representation on the citadel (like the krogans), because they just handily demonstrated the dangers of AIs and now there is this new, potentially hostile synthetic race that kills organics.

Of course that didn't really happen until Saren contacted the geth after the geth went behind the Persaus Veil.

I'm pretty sure the reason the quarians attacked the geth in the first place was they were worried the geth would revolt first, being unhappy with being forced into dangerous or menial labour, as Tali put it, no sentient creature would be happy doing that for long.

[Antivenger]

@ Sturmwulfe;

Laws about AI were put in place way before the Mo(u)rning War. The reasons weren't given, but I'm sure everyone species and/or government has fears about sentient machines (Think of SkyNet!).

Everything else you said is pretty much true.

Modifié par Antivenger, 17 mai 2011 - 11:53 .

[Smeelia]

Sturmwulfe wrote...
I'm pretty sure the reason the quarians attacked the geth in the first place was they were worried the geth would revolt first, being unhappy with being forced into dangerous or menial labour, as Tali put it, no sentient creature would be happy doing that for long.

They wouldn't be happy about being forced into it but I could imagine the Geth being happy enough to carry out those jobs.  If they were to try and integrate with galactic society they'd probably cause a crisis with workers of other races being replaced by much cheaper and generally more effective Geth labour.  They don't seem to think they need anything from the rest of galactic society though so it's lucky that hasn't happened.

[Reapinger]

Don't kill that which you create because it gets too smart for your liking. Lesson learned Quarians, too bad it cost you everything.

[AlexMBrennan]

Well... why not? It's a gradual thing - somewhere between a simple IF (...) { ... } ELSE { ... } and Skynet there's a point where it would be a good idea to stop; the quarians made the mistake of trying to stop the geth after giving them the capabilities to fight back.

[Zall]

I assume siding the quarians would be safer for the galaxy, because, as everyone said, machines can't be trusted. Reapers could create another virus and to force all geth to serve them. Or the geth could just achieve consensus the organics are too dangerous and have to be eliminated.

On the other hand, the geth seem to develop emotions, too. Legion said he had "No data available" on the question why he kept the N7 armor.

It's obvious the true geth admire Sheppard. Perhaps with time the geth will learn to other emotions as well, becoming more predictable and less dangerous.

Either way, I'd choose the geth, simply because I find the idea of a self-developing sapient life-form interesting. I want to see the geth reaching their full potential and how they'll change.

[TheRealIncarnal]

From what we can tell talking to Legion, the Quarians don't have a chance against the Geth. We were grossly underestimating them.

Also, the Geth appear to be relatively peaceful when left to their own devices. I think it's time for the Quarians to just admit that they made a huge mistake and need to move on to a new planet. Yes it will be difficult, but they're running out of options, and they seem to forget that they were the badguys in the Geth Rebellion. 

I think I will support the Geth over the Quarians if push comes to shove. 

Modifié par TheRealIncarnal, 17 mai 2011 - 02:15 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Perhaps with time the geth will learn to other emotions as well, becoming more predictable and less dangerous.

I'll just state with equally absolute conviction that emotions will make the geth more volatile and dangerous; after all emotions is exactly what makes us unpredictable and dangerous.

[Reapinger]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Perhaps with time the geth will learn to other emotions as well, becoming more predictable and less dangerous.

I'll just state with equally absolute conviction that emotions will make the geth more volatile and dangerous; after all emotions is exactly what makes us unpredictable and dangerous.

Welcome to humanity then

[Sturmwulfe]

Smeelia wrote...

Sturmwulfe wrote...
I'm pretty sure the reason the quarians attacked the geth in the first place was they were worried the geth would revolt first, being unhappy with being forced into dangerous or menial labour, as Tali put it, no sentient creature would be happy doing that for long.

They wouldn't be happy about being forced into it but I could imagine the Geth being happy enough to carry out those jobs.  If they were to try and integrate with galactic society they'd probably cause a crisis with workers of other races being replaced by much cheaper and generally more effective Geth labour.  They don't seem to think they need anything from the rest of galactic society though so it's lucky that hasn't happened.

It all depends, we're thinking like organics, geth may not have any pride or stigmas about doing those kinds of tasks. I don't think happiness is something that even occurs to them, just necessity. If they were told they need to partake in certain tasks to help society function, they'd probably go about doing it without really questioning it as it is required for social unity or something. As for your worker crisis hypothosis, that actually is very interesting. If the geth performed a lot of labour for probably no pay (what use do they have for currency?) and minor services in return (maybe mining rights for astroids and inhabitable worlds for their own constructions), it would probably really cause havok with a lot of workers of other races, putting them out of work and what not. That is, if anyone could ever trust them or put aside prejudice.

Overall, I don't think they really need anything from the rest of the galaxy either. They just want to be left alone, or at least coexist with organics.

Antivenger: I'll have to play the game again soon and look at the codex and what not, I guess it was more of a taboo than a law at the point the quarians created the geth to create and work with AIs. Either way, it's pretty interesting. I loved the whole plot twist involving the quarians potentially being a misguided aggressor and the geth being peaceful beings who are fighting for their right to live, who you had mindlessly shot down hundreds in the first game without thinking anything of it.

[Villedge]

I sold Legion to Cerberus, with the hope that the heretic Geth would overwrite the true Geth. I traumatized Tali by giving her evidence to the fleet, and suggested they go to war with the Geth. My plan is to let the two races kill each other off, kill the Reapers single-handedly, and then rule over the universe without suit freaks and supercomputers messin' with me.

[dragonflight288]

I like both sides. Legion and Tali aside, their politics are interesting. The quarians are a large dysfunctional family. The Geth need to reach consensus to do anything. Individually, they can't have opinions.

But the Quarians have the largest fleet in the galaxy. If they attack the geth, an advantage against the reapers goes out the window.

But the geth seem wiser than the rest of the galaxy in their belief that the journey of technology is just as important as the end result. They don't want to be given technology by the reapers, they want to discover their own paths to achieve their ambitions. Every other race rely entirely on Reaper technology. That means the Reapers know the insides and outsides of most of their defenses and tactics. The geth will be different because of their ingenuity.

I guess it comes down to quantity vs quality.

[Destroy Raiden_]

If it comes to war I'll apologize to Legion but I'm taking the Quarians side or more specifically Tali's side though I'd like BW to give one more option for shep to stay like the Swiss and be neutral in the combat maybe volunteer to treat medical or in the case of the geth cybernetic care for both sides but it will choose neither sense it is not our war but theirs.

I would also like a moment to speak privatly with Tali she's changed from ME - ME2 with her view on the geth under a parashep so I'd like to see does she as herself want to fight with her people, with legions people, or stay out of it and hope for the best don't make her go I'm not sure shep decide I hated doing that with Legion's quest it was a geth/geth conflict why was I deciding that? I wasn't there I wasn't born during the war I had zero to do with it and I have to decide what they should do? I asked him for council and I got a we don't know don't make Tali do an I don't know either I want her input her council on this so I can decide is the Normandy in with the Quarians, in with the geth, out with both, or neutral medical for both.