72 réponses à ce sujet

[AK404]

BTW, just a note to the OP: if you find yourself bogged down in fights of attrition as a soldier, it could be anything from squad mate selection to squad placement or even your own sense of caution.

At this point, I would strongly recommend going over Controlling the Battlefield or the entire List of Strategy Guides Found on the Forum, if you haven't already. (For a lark, I decided to do Mordin's RM using only ammo powers after reading thisisme's blog. It was slower going, but I was surprised how easy it was once you started paying attention to your surroundings and looking at the possibilities.)

[Saaziel]

My "panic" button , when playing Soldier, is (Area) Reave.

Its a Health regeneration/ Crowd control / Damage booster all in one. Adrenaline rush is great to soften up mooks , and by the time i'm down in health i can turn to Reave as a finisher. The only issue i've found is Mech ; I keep forgetting that they don't feed you back HP and i lean out of cover expecting more resilience on my part.

Otherwise , as mentioned before , unity fills in that role well enough for me , not to justify the use of Shield boosters.

Modifié par Saaziel, 16 mai 2011 - 10:30 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Sparroww wrote...

I do like using the Revenant on the Soldier and given that you need to get fairly close I sortof get where the OP is coming from in regards to needing a panic button, however without any bonuses to cooldown shield powers are a big no-no especially when I can use another power twice in that time.

Hardened AR, Area Reave, Upgraded Unity, Inferno Ammo on the LMG and Cryo Ammo on shotguns and pistols should be capable of handling all situations in the game, at the very least does for me.

+1   However, what boggles me the most is the lvl4 Concussive Shot and lvl1 shield power, instead of the other way around... As a pure stagger... if you must, then yeah, 1pt. CS works.. But a lvl1 shield power - considering the short duration, long cooldown, and the OP's no-cover playstyle - I don't get. At least get the max boost and duration if you're gonna use it that way.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 17 mai 2011 - 12:25 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

double post

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 17 mai 2011 - 02:16 .

[The Spamming Troll]

ive played only one soldier and its entire point was for insanity and to try the revenant. stasis wasnt available then but im sure having stasis on a soldier can add for endless domination. i wouldnt think the soldier needs much more then AR, even if they are about to die, AR is still better then using something like singularity.

[JaegerBane]

jamesp81 wrote...
Relies on medi-gel.  It's quite easy to run out at an inopportune moment.  I do use it for shield regen sometimes.  It depends.  If my medi gel reserve is getting low, I like to save it to keep squadmates on their feet at critical times.

Frankly, I would question whether you're moving around the battlefied efficiently if you regularly run out of Medi-gel. It's common as muck and you can carry 8 doses at once when upgraded. I have no idea what you're doing to blow through all of that.

Unity also seems to have a more time consuming activation animation.  That quarter of a second can make a hell of a lot of difference.  I can activate GSB while I'm shooting without interruption.  Can't do that with Unity.  I like to be able to recharge my shields while laying down fire without interruption, and GSB lets me do that.

The problem is you could do this with ARush too, and you'd not only get damage reduction, but you'd also gain heavier punch and easier targeting.... and be able to do it 4 times as often as you would if you used GSB.

The ability to regen your shields is not worth a 12 sec cooldown, not with AR on the table.

[jamesp81]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Sparroww wrote...

I do like using the Revenant on the Soldier and given that you need to get fairly close I sortof get where the OP is coming from in regards to needing a panic button, however without any bonuses to cooldown shield powers are a big no-no especially when I can use another power twice in that time.

Hardened AR, Area Reave, Upgraded Unity, Inferno Ammo on the LMG and Cryo Ammo on shotguns and pistols should be capable of handling all situations in the game, at the very least does for me.

+1   However, what boggles me the most is the lvl4 Concussive Shot and lvl1 shield power, instead of the other way around... As a pure stagger... if you must, then yeah, 1pt. CS works.. But a lvl1 shield power - considering the short duration, long cooldown, and the OP's no-cover playstyle - I don't get. At least get the max boost and duration if you're gonna use it that way.

I've played it both ways, actually.  My soldier is currently configured with heavy CS and 1pt shield boost, but I've gone the other way around.

CS does wonders on biotic barriers.  Not as good as Reave or Warp, but good enough.  Going the other way around boosts survivability, but limits possible squadmate selection somewhat.  It is nice to have 625 shields with fully upgraded GSB though, no doubt about that.

[jamesp81]

JaegerBane wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
Relies on medi-gel.  It's quite easy to run out at an inopportune moment.  I do use it for shield regen sometimes.  It depends.  If my medi gel reserve is getting low, I like to save it to keep squadmates on their feet at critical times.

Frankly, I would question whether you're moving around the battlefied efficiently if you regularly run out of Medi-gel. It's common as muck and you can carry 8 doses at once when upgraded. I have no idea what you're doing to blow through all of that.

Unity also seems to have a more time consuming activation animation.  That quarter of a second can make a hell of a lot of difference.  I can activate GSB while I'm shooting without interruption.  Can't do that with Unity.  I like to be able to recharge my shields while laying down fire without interruption, and GSB lets me do that.

The problem is you could do this with ARush too, and you'd not only get damage reduction, but you'd also gain heavier punch and easier targeting.... and be able to do it 4 times as often as you would if you used GSB.

The ability to regen your shields is not worth a 12 sec cooldown, not with AR on the table.

1) In early NG+ on insanity, your shields will last under sustained fire for about 1/10th of a second, so yeah, you're going to use it more often early to mid game, when you don't have the upgrade for 8 units of it.

2) I've been killed plenty of times using ARush as a panic button.  When you have 10% or less health left, one burst will kill you.  ARush then retreat works well if you aren't near death, but on insanity you will get shot no matter how fast you are under AR.

3) 12 second cooldown is a problem, but not an insurmountable one.  Just have to be careful how you use it.  It requires thinking ahead.  If you can use it to get in one last push to run off the opposition in front of you so you can gain better position, it's worth it.  If your health is very low and retreating, even under AR, means death, it's worth it.

4) The only reason any of this is true is because of the nature of the Revenant itself.  The Revenant is great under AR, but it's not the god-tier killing machine under AR that the Widow and Mattock are.  With a Widow/Mattock soldier, I don't bother with my own CS for this reason.  When running with the Revenant, AR is still great, but not so great that it should be used exclusive to other abilities.  This changes when I pull out the sniper rifle; when I'm sniping, ARush is about the only thing I use besides ammo powers.

5) I take a power like Reave, Stasis, or flashbang, usually, with Widow/Mattock for the aforementioned reasons.  Flashbang probably isn't as good as the other two, but it sure is entertaining.  Reave, on the other hand, is stupid powerful.

[jamesp81]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Sparroww wrote...

I do like using the Revenant on the Soldier and given that you need to get fairly close I sortof get where the OP is coming from in regards to needing a panic button, however without any bonuses to cooldown shield powers are a big no-no especially when I can use another power twice in that time.

Hardened AR, Area Reave, Upgraded Unity, Inferno Ammo on the LMG and Cryo Ammo on shotguns and pistols should be capable of handling all situations in the game, at the very least does for me.

+1   However, what boggles me the most is the lvl4 Concussive Shot and lvl1 shield power, instead of the other way around... As a pure stagger... if you must, then yeah, 1pt. CS works.. But a lvl1 shield power - considering the short duration, long cooldown, and the OP's no-cover playstyle - I don't get. At least get the max boost and duration if you're gonna use it that way.

The shield power's short duration is not an issue.  My shield won't be up for that long anyway.

[termokanden]

This choice makes a lot of sense actually. If you're going to use CS a lot, might as well get the good version. However, with the way shields work, having just a little bit is pretty much as good as having a lot.

[jamesp81]

Truth is, this build probably isn't the strongest possible build. Locutus, for example, is right in that there are better powers that can be used for disabling enemy barriers (Reave comes to mind).

I don't mind admitting that I find CS entertaining and having a shield refill power like GSB reduces the frustration factor. I'm not really that great of a player all said, so I just do whatever I find entertaining and win that way.

[JaegerBane]

jamesp81 wrote...
1) In early NG+ on insanity, your shields will last under sustained fire for about 1/10th of a second, so yeah, you're going to use it more often early to mid game, when you don't have the upgrade for 8 units of it.

This makes sense on paper, but it doesn't translate into actual gameplay - namely because a) by the end of Mordin's mission you have about 6 doses available, so the point about 'early game' is largely academic - the rate you expand your medi-gel supply isn't linear across the game.... and medigel is all over the place regardless of how much you can store.

2) I've been killed plenty of times using ARush as a panic button.  When you have 10% or less health left, one burst will kill you.  ARush then retreat works well if you aren't near death, but on insanity you will get shot no matter how fast you are under AR.

Obviously AR isn't going to work that well if you activate it with a shred of health and keep on doing what you're doing, it doesn't work that way. The point is that the extra resiliance and movement speed pretty much allow you to take your pick of cover on the map.

And if you've just munched 8 medi-gels in a row, I doubt health is going to be an issue for you

3) 12 second cooldown is a problem, but not an insurmountable one.  Just have to be careful how you use it.  It requires thinking ahead.  If you can use it to get in one last push to run off the opposition in front of you so you can gain better position, it's worth it.  If your health is very low and retreating, even under AR, means death, it's worth it.

If you're bothered about thinking ahead then you're probably playing the wrong class, but that's another can of worms

To be serious though, it's a question of what you're getting for that 12 sec lockout on your ARush. ARush isn't a particularly balanced power, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that simply recharging your shield - something that will happen automatically if you wait less than half that time you've just incurred due to GSB use, let alone use something like Unity and it's abundant resource - is not worth losing access to 3 ARushes. There's just no logical reasoning behind it. You said it yourself, above - under sustained fire, your shields fall apart nearly instantly. It doesn't make any sense to knock out your prime power for 12 secs just so you can withstand an extra fraction of a second's worth of fire.

If it's a case of you simply liking the power then fine, that's up to you, but there's a difference between that and claiming that it's worth doing.

4) The only reason any of this is true is because of the nature of the Revenant itself.  The Revenant is great under AR, but it's not the god-tier killing machine under AR that the Widow and Mattock are.  With a Widow/Mattock soldier, I don't bother with my own CS for this reason.  When running with the Revenant, AR is still great, but not so great that it should be used exclusive to other abilities.  This changes when I pull out the sniper rifle; when I'm sniping, ARush is about the only thing I use besides ammo powers.

This is a false dilemma here. Yeah, the Rev under ARush isn't anywhere near as potent as the Widow/Mattock combo... that hardly means, however, that it's no better than waiting 12 secs just to recharge your shields.

5) I take a power like Reave, Stasis, or flashbang, usually, with Widow/Mattock for the aforementioned reasons.  Flashbang probably isn't as good as the other two, but it sure is entertaining.  Reave, on the other hand, is stupid powerful.

Not really sure what your point is here - all of these powers are far better than any of the shielding abilities for a Soldier. Taking GSB denies you the above, so it's self-evident that it isn't a good idea in this case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not trying to tell you what to pick - this is a single player game, you choose whatever you please. All I'm saying is that there's plenty of evidence and reasoning to point out that a GSB choice on a soldier isn't a very good one. As I said before, there's a difference between thinking something's cool, and claiming it's a good choice.

[termokanden]

The way I see it, the class is so powerful in itself that bonus powers are more or less equally good choices (though not equally good powers) since you don't need any of them anyway.

The shield powers aren't generally very good, but at least they help you when someone sneaks up on you (although I think for that purpose Barrier is best).

Modifié par termokanden, 17 mai 2011 - 09:03 .

[jamesp81]

@JaegarBane

That's the difference between you and me.

I think it is a good choice. This is how I beat Insanity for the first time without it being nothing but frustration and teeth grinding.

You can prove on paper that my way is not as effective as yours. I can prove by results that my way worked pretty damned good.  It certainly worked one hell of a lot better than when I was using Stasis or Flashbang as a bonus power.  I died very little this way, whereas trying to intelligently use Stasis or Flashbang ended up getting me killed all the time.  When I had one of those powers for my bonus, I performed better if I just didn't use them and spammed AR all over the place.

Modifié par jamesp81, 17 mai 2011 - 09:07 .

[AK404]

jamesp81 wrote...

@JaegarBane

That's the difference between you and me.

I think it is a good choice. This is how I beat Insanity for the first time without it being nothing but frustration and teeth grinding.

The thing is, that was the first time you beat Insanity, right?  Trust me, after the initial shock wears off, Insanity just gets easier and easier.

[termokanden]

I still think there's a point we're missing here.

A good bonus power for damage such as Reave is not needed because of the firepower a soldier has. You're simply better off spamming ARush. A panic button, even if it's only useful in very few situations, still has its uses. Sure you can get out of a lot of situations with ARush, but I think shield powers are better if you're being flamed by a pyro for example.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

termokanden wrote...

I still think there's a point we're missing here.

More than one point...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
... what boggles me the most is the lvl4 Concussive Shot and lvl1 shield power, instead of the other way around... As a pure stagger... if you must, then yeah, 1pt. CS works.. But *a lvl1 shield power - considering the short duration, long cooldown, and the OP's no-cover playstyle - I don't get. At least get the max boost and duration if you're gonna use it that way.*

Maybe CS can be handwaved away as a die-hard style thing.

But the 2nd point... You're gonna be waiting that 12s anyway... WTH would you NOT want the most out of your shield boost, especially when you're down to 10hp, still in the open, not looking for cover??

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 17 mai 2011 - 11:50 .

[mcsupersport]

I know my Rev Soldier has GSB as a bonus, but it is maxed and slated to the extra damage version. The way it is used is simply pop before combat, and then get the extra damage as long as possible and kill as much as possible before the first ARush wears off. I really didn't see the need for an active power that would take away from ARush, and ammos are a waste on the soldier so it left in my mind shield power.

[jamesp81]

termokanden wrote...

I still think there's a point we're missing here.

A good bonus power for damage such as Reave is not needed because of the firepower a soldier has. You're simply better off spamming ARush. A panic button, even if it's only useful in very few situations, still has its uses. Sure you can get out of a lot of situations with ARush, but I think shield powers are better if you're being flamed by a pyro for example.

Another use for a shield power on NG+.....

Situation: you're in cover, and a Krogan is closing the distance.  He's not charging, not yet, but he's steadily closing the distance.  So, naturally, you lean out and start shooting him with the Revenant.  Problem is, Krogan have a ****load of armor on ng+ insanity.  His vorcha pals break your shield and run you down below half heatlh before you've stripped his armor away.  Without a shield power, my options are to go back into cover and risk him getting close enough to charge, or stay out of cover and risk being killed by vorcha.

Enter your shield power.

I simply fire up a shield power and keep pouring the lead to him.  As soon as his armor is gone, I go back into cover and use a squadmate's crowd control power (pull, throw, shockwave, CS, slam, doesn't matter) to get him on the deck and out of my face.

I will be in this situation at least once every time I fight Krogan in any significant numbers.  It is a critical mission failure kind of situation that is quickly salvaged by judicious use of a shield power.

Modifié par jamesp81, 18 mai 2011 - 03:29 .

[jamesp81]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

termokanden wrote...

I still think there's a point we're missing here.

More than one point...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
... what boggles me the most is the lvl4 Concussive Shot and lvl1 shield power, instead of the other way around... As a pure stagger... if you must, then yeah, 1pt. CS works.. But *a lvl1 shield power - considering the short duration, long cooldown, and the OP's no-cover playstyle - I don't get. At least get the max boost and duration if you're gonna use it that way.*

Maybe CS can be handwaved away as a die-hard style thing.

But the 2nd point... You're gonna be waiting that 12s anyway... WTH would you NOT want the most out of your shield boost, especially when you're down to 10hp, still in the open, not looking for cover??

Heavy CS does pretty good damage to barriers.  And if I'm not going to use my bonus power slot for Reave, then it's the only thing I have that is designed to bring down barriers.  Or I can forego CS and get the stronger shield power evolution, and rely on squad powers for barrier removal (Miranda, Samara, and Thane are well equipped for this.  I have a kind of personal aversion to becoming overly dependant on anyone squad mate, however).  I've done it both ways, and I've been known to change it mid game as well.

[lazuli]

jamesp81 wrote...

Heavy CS does pretty good damage to barriers.  And if I'm not going to use my bonus power slot for Reave, then it's the only thing I have that is designed to bring down barriers.  Or I can forego CS and get the stronger shield power evolution, and rely on squad powers for barrier removal (Miranda, Samara, and Thane are well equipped for this.  I have a kind of personal aversion to becoming overly dependant on anyone squad mate, however).  I've done it both ways, and I've been known to change it mid game as well.

I just shoot barriers off when playing as a Soldier.  It's really that simple.  You don't need Reave or Concussive Shot or even squadmate support.

[JRKnight]

lazuli wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Heavy CS does pretty good damage to barriers.  And if I'm not going to use my bonus power slot for Reave, then it's the only thing I have that is designed to bring down barriers.  Or I can forego CS and get the stronger shield power evolution, and rely on squad powers for barrier removal (Miranda, Samara, and Thane are well equipped for this.  I have a kind of personal aversion to becoming overly dependant on anyone squad mate, however).  I've done it both ways, and I've been known to change it mid game as well.

I just shoot barriers off when playing as a Soldier.  It's really that simple.  You don't need Reave or Concussive Shot or even squadmate support.

That's pretty much the idea dealing with any kind of protection.   Even without using AR.

[RandomCanadianGuy]

I used to use Fortification or GSB as my bonus power, but after doing a few Insanity runs and seeing how handicapped the 12 second cooldown can leave you, I'm sticking with AP Ammo or Dominate as my bonus power.

[JRKnight]

@jamesp81: Heavy CS is pretty good dealing with barrier, but its also a good way to deal with those damn pyros. Even when using the Revenant with its wide shot grouping. If you can take out the guys' shield before they get into range. Shootout one of the containers on their back to breach the casing, and just before they detonate hit them cs. Power sends them flying back to the other side of the room and past any enemies hiding behind cover. They get caught in the blast. Panics any protected enemies and torches any exposed targets.

On topic. gsb is pretty good panic button, long cooldown aside. Hey, if it works, it works. That's all I can say.

[JaegerBane]

jamesp81 wrote...

@JaegarBane

That's the difference between you and me.

I think it is a good choice. This is how I beat Insanity for the first time without it being nothing but frustration and teeth grinding.

You can prove on paper that my way is not as effective as yours. I can prove by results that my way worked pretty damned good. 

If your evidence for a power choice being good depends entirely on completing Insanity with then there really isn't any point arguing at all, as it's nonsensical argument. You can complete the game with *any* bonus power, and on the Soldier, your own class powers are better than *any* bonus power. You may have found one less 'frustrating' than the other (though I can't fathom why on earth you'd find stuff like Stasis or Reave 'frustrating' as they're practically fire-and-forget) but that's meaningless in an objective context.

As I said, if you like one power over the other, then good for you - no-one is telling you to choose something you don't want. All I'm trying to point out is that objectively, GSB isn't an optimal choice. Ignoring the evidence isn't relevant to that. As I said, this a single player game - choose what you will