206 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Abirn wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

People should really stop using the word "retcon".

Especially when they have no idea of what it means.

To go back and change story line facts.
Which is what some people are asking for.

That said while I hate retcons (and blizzard is the worst for retconns) I absolutly loath social conservatives.  So anything that gets those uptight prudes in a hissy fit is funny and should be supported.  Therefore I do support same sex options in ME3.

The faux "news" outrage should be epic lulz.

Ugh. Absolutely.

As far as Tali goes. Yes her having a crush on Shepard is a bit of a retcon. I wouldn't say it's as big of one as reworking her sexuality but it's still a retcon. But I was never particuarly big proponent of Tali romance in the first place

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 16 mai 2011 - 10:16 .

[Saeran]

Abirn wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

People should really stop using the word "retcon".

Especially when they have no idea of what it means.

To go back and change story line facts.
Which is what some people are asking for.

That said while I hate retcons (and blizzard is the worst for retconns) I absolutly loath social conservatives.  So anything that gets those uptight prudes in a hissy fit is funny and should be supported.  Therefore I do support same sex options in ME3.

The faux "news" outrage should be epic lulz.

Whilst it would be epiclulz as you say... I highly doubt it'll be mentioned. I don't remember seeing Dragon Age 2 getting any bad remarks on Faux News channel, when it was highly expected.

[Ryzaki]

And anticipated *grumbles* stupid fox news. I wanted to make fun of them again. :/

[AdmiralCheez]

Abirn wrote...

That said while I hate retcons (and blizzard is the worst for retconns)I absolutly loath social conservatives.  So anything that gets those uptight prudes in a hissy fit is funny and should be supported.  Therefore I do support same sex options in ME3.

The faux "news" outrage should be epic lulz.

Indeed.  Bring it on, baby.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

To be honest I suspect they may have learned their lesson after last time. Either that or nobody there found video games an interesting enough subject of controversy.

[Pani Mauser]

XX55XX wrote...

I voted.

I do NOT want to see Tali retconned as a bisexual. Sorry to my fellow bisexual and homosexual gamers who would like to see that. It creates an inconsistency in the game that is too great to ignore.

Now, if BioWare would like to introduce some new romantic options (which they don't plan to do) then that is fine, since it won't break the canon.

In ME2 Tali does flirt with femShep to the point of proposing to link suits, but when femShep tells her that she would love to link suits, Tali gets too embarrased and cuts it off. So, in a way it is like Samaramance when she stops right before it happens. So, for Tali it will not be retcon if next game she finds enough courage to go all the way. It will be just continuation of the line from ME2. 

The same was with her manShep romance. In ME1 she didn't show any sings of romantic interest in Shepard, but in ME2 you suddenly find out that she had the crush on him all the time. Maybe, she had a crush on femShep as well, but just needed time to accept her bisexuality.

Modifié par Babe Mause, 16 mai 2011 - 10:24 .

[San_OpiA]

man what kind of perverts are you guys? I want ME3 to be the best game of the year...

no it looks like the main goal of the game is to romance with people.. come on guys don't pervertize the whole idea of mass effect!

[Ryzaki]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Abirn wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

People should really stop using the word "retcon".

Especially when they have no idea of what it means.

To go back and change story line facts.
Which is what some people are asking for.

That said while I hate retcons (and blizzard is the worst for retconns) I absolutly loath social conservatives.  So anything that gets those uptight prudes in a hissy fit is funny and should be supported.  Therefore I do support same sex options in ME3.

The faux "news" outrage should be epic lulz.

Ugh. Absolutely.

As far as Tali goes. Yes her having a crush on Shepard is a bit of a retcon. I wouldn't say it's as big of one as reworking her sexuality but it's still a retcon. But I was never particuarly big proponent of Tali romance in the first place

My issue is it is reworking her sexuality. 

It just reworked it to include humans. She never was said to be attracted to humans before. 

[ianmcdonald]

Don't have a gay relationship if you don't want one. That's it.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Abirn wrote...
I absolutly loath social conservatives.

Oh rest assured we hate you as well.

[Manic Sheep]

San_OpiA wrote...

man what kind of perverts are you guys? I want ME3 to be the best game of the year...

no it looks like the main goal of the game is to romance with people.. come on guys don't pervertize the whole idea of mass effect!

Just because people are discussing this aspect doesn’t mean it the main feature and in case you didn't notice mass effect is already full of romances so I don’t see how adding a SS romance perverts it.

[colossus50000]

No this is a horrible decision, mass effect isn't my favorite series anymore

[Gavinthelocust]

About time.
Jacob better be an option...

[Xerxes52]

I'm fine with it as long as:

A. They don't spring it on you like Anders.

and

B. The option to initiate a romance is clearly marked in the conversation wheel.

[WizenSlinky0]

Ryzaki wrote...

Tali claiming she had a crush on Shepard all along yet showing no sign of it until ME2 isn't a retcon? Her suddenly gaining an interest in humans (let alone Shepard) with no mention isn't a retcon? 

She never said she was interested in humans.

If that logic works against her being bisexual it works against her being interested in humans.  

Really? Because everyone who has a crush on someone is instantly flirtatious. Her character was more forward in ME2, that's it. It very much could simply mean she grew up enough in those two years to feel more comfortable with her feelings.

That isn't a fact. It's an option. The absence of her saying she likes you does not mean she doesn't. Just like the absence of her saying she doesn't like you does not mean that she does. The *only* ones who could tell us if that is a consistant trait of her character would be the writer. The rest is just guesswork.

However, based on the shy portion of her character, it does make sense.

Regardless. A retcon is when you go against previously defined traits (as in absolute fact, not opinion) and contradict information that was previously offered. Since the information was never offered in the positive OR negative it is impossible to be called a retcon.

So people are right to say those who are using the term have absolutely no idea what it means. I suppose you could make a case of "Retcon of addition" but when you have long arcs like this it is very difficult to differentiate from logical progression of characters and "lets just throw this in, think they'll notice?"

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 16 mai 2011 - 10:48 .

[Pani Mauser]

makalathbonagin wrote...

^ :' (

some people only care about romances in this game ... its troubling
like R*cough*... looks at his sig

Well, if people discuss romances, it doesn't mean that they care only about it.  For now gameplay and story info seems solid to me, I think game will be awesome overall, I have no worries, so I have no need to discuss those points. But romance (and squadmates too, but that's offtopic) is up in the air, and thus it is interesting to discuss. And I think I'm not the only one here.

[bald man in a boat]

I hope there is a prison shower scene in ME3 where Shep drops the soap.

[Ryzaki]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...
Really? Because everyone who has a crush on someone is instantly flirtatious. Her character was more forward in ME2, that's it. It very much could simply mean she grew up enough in those two years to feel more comfortable with her feelings.

No they're not flirtaous but people usually stammer, and give other small signs of having a crush. And I'm pretty sure if Ashley could be bothered to point out the crush Liara hason Shepard she'd do the same for Tali. Let's not mention this crush happens regardless of Shepard treating her like trash. So no it pretty much is a retcon. 

That isn't a fact. It's an option. The absence of her saying she likes you does not mean she doesn't. Just like the absence of her saying she doesn't like you does not mean that she does. The *only* ones who could tell us if that is a consistant trait of her character would be the writer. The rest is just guesswork.

However, based on the shy portion of her character, it does make sense.

Regardless. A retcon is when you go against previously defined traits (as in absolute fact, not opinion) and contradict information that was previously offered. Since the information was never offered in the positive OR negative it is impossible to be called a retcon.

So people are right to say those who are using the term have absolutely no idea what it means.

So her being bisexual (i.e. being interested in female Shepard in ME3) wouldn't be a retcon? Since that doesn't go against anything she's done so far?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 10:48 .

[TheBlackBaron]

Abirn wrote...

That said while I hate retcons (and blizzard is the worst for retconns) I absolutly loath social conservatives.  So anything that gets those uptight prudes in a hissy fit is funny and should be supported.  Therefore I do support same sex options in ME3.

The faux "news" outrage should be epic lulz.

<---- Is a social conservative (sometimes, it depends on the day really). 

<---- Is not having a hissy-fit, supports homosexual options in ME3 depending on the character. 

Continue with your sterotyping, though, it really makes you seem tolerant and progressive. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Ryzaki wrote...

My issue is it is reworking her sexuality. 

It just reworked it to include humans. She never was said to be attracted to humans before. 

Again, I sort of agree with you here. It's just that speaking from my own perspective, I'd estimate that it's not quite as big of a leap. Provided quarians are as attracted to humans as humans are to quarians, I'd say a human is more likley to be attracted to a quarian of the gender they like rather than a human of a gender they don't. But if you don't agree then I really can't argue against that.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 16 mai 2011 - 10:48 .

[WizenSlinky0]

Ryzaki wrote...

No they're not flirtaous but people usually stammer, and give other small signs of having a crush. And I'm pretty sure if Ashley could be bothered to point out the crush Liara hason Shepard she'd do the same for Tali.

So her being bisexual (i.e. being interested in female Shepard in ME3) wouldn't be a retcon? Since that doesn't go against anything she's done so far?

Usually, but not always. I've known people who have poker faces when it comes to romance that make their significant others cringe trying to figure them out.

It really depends on the person. As the writer is the only one in touch with their character well enough to know if it's consistant, we can only guess at it. Liara was a direct threat, she showed interest, and ashley noticed it.

Tali was more or less "young" and on her pilgrimage before being swept up into an inter-galactic chase with the world on the line. Hell, for all we know she didn't even realized she had fallen in love until after Shepard died and she realized what she lost. Those kinds of experiences have a way of making you re-evulate everything about your life.

Correct, her being bisexual would not be a retcon. It MAY present issues of character that could create a discontinuity of character but it would not be a RETROACTIVE continuity(retcon) issue.

[Ryzaki]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Again, I sort of agree with you here. It's just that speaking from my own perspective, I'd estimate that it's not quite as big of a leap. Provided quarians are as attracted to humans as humans are to quarians, I'd say a human is more likley to be attracted to a quarian of the gender they like rather than a human of a gender they don't. But if you don't agree then I really can't argue against that.

*stares* Humans are giant hairy, Asari filled to the brim with germs. 

Quarians from what we can tell have chicken feet and bird like hands. We're barely alike. Sure the female Quarians have breasts and hips but we don't know what they look like facewise. For all we know they're faces aren't anything like a humans. (not to mention Tali's eyes seem to glow). 

What reason would a Quarian have to be attracted to a human male? Especially when she never mentions this attraction at all despite Kaidan being there along with other human males on the normady? Like with s/s if she deosn't express an interest in the object of her affections it's a retcon. It being a retcon you like doesn't make it any less of a retcon. And to me it's a huge leap to be willing to sleep with something that can kill you. Humans are living bacteria machines. They're everywhere on us. It's like trying to have sex with a chainsaw that's running. 

And you're right there's no arguing that because to me that makes no sense. A quarian isn't likely to be attracted o a human period. Nevermind if they're of the opposite gender. 

[SteelRaptor]

If Ashley were to suddenly turn bi, it would totally destroy her character, imo. So, hands-off on her. Liara's been able to go with either Shep since the beginning, no biggie. Same with Kelly "Scale-itch" Chambers. I think even Jack mentioned she was with guys or girls, but was male-shep only.

I'm cautious, but it's sounding as if some DA2 is starting to leak into my ME3.

[Ryzaki]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...
Usually, but not always. I've known people who have poker faces when it comes to romance that make their significant others cringe trying to figure them out. 

It really depends on the person. As the writer is the only one in touch with their character well enough to know if it's consistant, we can only guess at it. Liara was a direct threat, she showed interest, and ashley noticed it.

Tali was more or less "young" and on her pilgrimage before being swept up into an inter-galactic chase with the world on the line. Hell, for all we know she didn't even realized she had fallen in love until after Shepard died and she realized what she lost. Those kinds of experiences have a way of making you re-evulate everything about your life.

Correct, her being bisexual would not be a retcon. It MAY present issues of character that could create a discontinuity of character but it would not be a RETROACTIVE continuity(retcon) issue.

My issue is that Tali doesn't have much of a poker face. 

Hm maybe. Which is odd considering I had turned Liara down before that conversation but Ash still brought it up (despite thefact that I didn't want to romance her either. Stupid ME1 and it's damn ninjamancing.) 

That's the kind of headcanon I had for Joker/Kaidan ;_; 

Oh. Thanks for that. You don't mind if I steal your posts then?