206 réponses à ce sujet

[WizenSlinky0]

Ryzaki wrote...

*stares* Humans are giant hairy, Asari filled to the brim with germs. 

Quarians from what we can tell have chicken feet and bird like hands. We're barely alike. Sure the female Quarians have breasts and hips but we don't know what they look like facewise. For all we know they're faces aren't anything like a humans. (not to mention Tali's eyes seem to glow). 

What reason would a Quarian have to be attracted to a human male? Especially when she never mentions this attraction at all despite Kaidan being there along with other human males on the normady? Like with s/s if she deosn't express an interest in the object of her affections it's a retcon. It being a retcon you like doesn't make it any less of a retcon. And to me it's a huge leap to be willing to sleep with something that can kill you. Humans are living bacteria machines. They're everywhere on us. It's like trying to have sex with a chainsaw that's running. 

And you're right there's no arguing that because to me that makes no sense. A quarian isn't likely to be attracted o a human period. Nevermind if they're of the opposite gender. 

This assumes we are all attracted to the same kinds of things. Which is incorrect. Even among humans there are HUGE differences between what aspects of other humans attract us.

Not only that, this assumes that attractiveness is based entirely on physical attraction. Some can make the argument that "physical attraction will always be important on some level" and they may be right...but I've seen some pretty...interesting examples that go well against that theory.

Ryzaki wrote...

My issue is that Tali doesn't have much of a poker face. 

Hm
maybe. Which is odd considering I had turned Liara down before that
conversation but Ash still brought it up (despite thefact that I didn't
want to romance her either. Stupid ME1 and it's damn ninjamancing.) 

That's the kind of headcanon I had for Joker/Kaidan ;_; 

Oh. Thanks for that. You don't mind if I steal your posts then?

You can turn someone down but you can't erase their interest in you. In fact, you risk increasing it (gotta have what you can't!). Just because you don't percieve them as a threat doesn't mean the person you're with wouldn't.

Steal away. They are in the public domain at this point!

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 16 mai 2011 - 11:00 .

[Ryzaki]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...
This assumes we are all attracted to the same kinds of things. Which is incorrect. Even among humans there are HUGE differences between what aspects of other humans attract us.

Not only that, this assumes that attractiveness is based entirely on physical attraction. Some can make the argument that "physical attraction will always be important on some level" and they may be right...but I've seen some pretty...interesting examples that go well against that theory.

And humans are usually attracted to things that don't look remotely humanoid?  

Things that can kill us? 

Things that we might not even be physicall compatible with? 

And this is *usually* I'm well aware of the people that like screwing desks and animal. They're a ridculous minority. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 11:01 .

[Heather Cline]

I approve of s/s romances in ME3. It's been wanted by both many male and female gamers. Though we had Liara in ME1 and no option really in ME2 with the exception of LotSB, I'm glad that we are getting more options in the final installment.

[WizenSlinky0]

Ryzaki wrote...


And humans are usually attracted to things that don't look remotely humanoid?  

Things that can kill us? 

...you realize states in the US are passing a slew of beastiality laws right now don't you?

[Gavinthelocust]

Ryzaki wrote...

And humans are usually attracted to things that don't look remotely humanoid?  

Things that can kill us?

I wish I could say no, I really do.

[Ryzaki]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...


And humans are usually attracted to things that don't look remotely humanoid?  

Things that can kill us? 

...you realize states in the US are passing a slew of beastiality laws right now don't you?

Those people are in a ridculous minority. Hence my use of the word "usually".

And again Tali shows no interest in any other human. If she did find human men attractive why not develop a crush on someone who might actually be decent to her (like the engineer dude) instead of my renedouche Shepard? :huh:Unless she's one of those women that like to be smacked around I suppose. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 11:04 .

[WizenSlinky0]

Ryzaki wrote...


Those people are in a ridculous minority. Hence my use of the word "usually".

And again Tali shows no interest in any other human. If she did find human men attractive why not develop a crush on someone who might actually be decent to her (like the engineer dude) instead of my renedouche Shepard? 

The people who act on them maybe. We don't really know how prevalent things are in peoples heads. And regardless, a minority is still a portion of a population.

Did he take you on his ship and pull a young quarian woman off on a galaxy wide adventure to save the universe? Seriously, how does that NOT make an impression on someone?

Just like I can't say "She never DIDN'T show interest in humans" by expressely denying interest, the argument in the other direction does not work.

We can only use the facts at hand to judge the liklihood of developing interest. And I'd say a joyride on a mako into a mass relay leading into a flaming citadel...kinda takes the cake.

[Ryzaki]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

The people who act on them maybe. We don't really know how prevalent things are in peoples heads. And regardless, a minority is still a portion of a population.

Did he take you on his ship and pull a young quarian woman off on a galaxy wide adventure to save the universe? Seriously, how does that NOT make an impression on someone?

Not when he's grumbling about not wanting another damn alien on his ship and his superior forces the issue and the whole time they're traveling he's being a collosal douche and racist. 

Just like I can't say "She never DIDN'T show interest in humans" by expressely denying interest, the argument in the other direction does not work.

We can only use the facts at hand to judge the liklihood of developing interest. And I'd say a joyride on a mako into a mass relay leading into a flaming citadel...kinda takes the cake.

True my issue is with my canon renedouche Shepard it makes absolutely no sense. He couldn't stand her. He laughed in her face about the Geth war and blamed her people for it. He told her she couldn't have the Geth data to complete her pilgrimage. He did plenty of cruel and vindictive, petty things in front of her. 

And in ME2 its' "I loved you all along Shepard!". 

Ugh. 

I guess she really does want to get slapped around. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 11:09 .

[Rejoy Skinler]

Huh.

I wouldn't care if it was in there since ME1 but now this is just gonna feel awkwwwward. Surely the extra lines could go towards the main plot instead of making us mate with the whole crew?

[WizenSlinky0]

Ryzaki wrote...

Not when he's grumbling about not wanting another damn alien on his ship and his superior forces the issue and the whole time they're traveling he's being a collosal douche and racist. 

True my issue is with my canon renedouche Shepard it makes absolutely no sense. He couldn't stand her. He laughed in her face about the Geth war and blamed her people for it. He told her she couldn't have the Geth data to complete her pilgrimage. He did plenty of cruel and vindictive, petty things in front of her. 

And in ME2 its' "I loved you all along Shepard!". 

Ugh. 

I guess she really does want to get slapped around. 

That question begs why half of your party stays with you or shows any interest in you when you're telling them off. That's a general issue not related to character at all, but Bioware's attempt to make the game relatively equal for both Paragon and Renegade players.

It's also simply possible she didn't even realize she liked you while on the ship in ME1. Then suddenly, you die, and this hole is left in her life that she suddenly realizes she wants filled (ha!). Death has an interesting way of making us reflect on our pasts and the people in them.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 16 mai 2011 - 11:12 .

[cnielsen8]

If it's new characters, fine. If all of the old crew starts turning bisexual then I'm done with this series. DA2 was bad enough what with virtually every character being bi, but I really don't want to see ME3 ruined because Bioware wants to appeal to the minority of players.

[Lotto]

Ryzaki wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Again, I sort of agree with you here. It's just that speaking from my own perspective, I'd estimate that it's not quite as big of a leap. Provided quarians are as attracted to humans as humans are to quarians, I'd say a human is more likley to be attracted to a quarian of the gender they like rather than a human of a gender they don't. But if you don't agree then I really can't argue against that.

*stares* Humans are giant hairy, Asari filled to the brim with germs. 

Quarians from what we can tell have chicken feet and bird like hands. We're barely alike. Sure the female Quarians have breasts and hips but we don't know what they look like facewise. For all we know they're faces aren't anything like a humans. (not to mention Tali's eyes seem to glow). 

What reason would a Quarian have to be attracted to a human male? Especially when she never mentions this attraction at all despite Kaidan being there along with other human males on the normady? Like with s/s if she deosn't express an interest in the object of her affections it's a retcon. It being a retcon you like doesn't make it any less of a retcon. And to me it's a huge leap to be willing to sleep with something that can kill you. Humans are living bacteria machines. They're everywhere on us. It's like trying to have sex with a chainsaw that's running. 

And you're right there's no arguing that because to me that makes no sense. A quarian isn't likely to be attracted o a human period. Nevermind if they're of the opposite gender. 

I think it's been confirmed in one of the books that quarians look like people w/o ears.

Modifié par Lotto, 16 mai 2011 - 11:15 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Ryzaki wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Again, I sort of agree with you here. It's just that speaking from my own perspective, I'd estimate that it's not quite as big of a leap. Provided quarians are as attracted to humans as humans are to quarians, I'd say a human is more likley to be attracted to a quarian of the gender they like rather than a human of a gender they don't. But if you don't agree then I really can't argue against that.

*stares* Humans are giant hairy, Asari filled to the brim with germs. 

Quarians from what we can tell have chicken feet and bird like hands. We're barely alike. Sure the female Quarians have breasts and hips but we don't know what they look like facewise. For all we know they're faces aren't anything like a humans. (not to mention Tali's eyes seem to glow). 

What reason would a Quarian have to be attracted to a human male? Especially when she never mentions this attraction at all despite Kaidan being there along with other human males on the normady? Like with s/s if she deosn't express an interest in the object of her affections it's a retcon. It being a retcon you like doesn't make it any less of a retcon. And to me it's a huge leap to be willing to sleep with something that can kill you. Humans are living bacteria machines. They're everywhere on us. It's like trying to have sex with a chainsaw that's running. 

And you're right there's no arguing that because to me that makes no sense. A quarian isn't likely to be attracted o a human period. Nevermind if they're of the opposite gender. 

You know I've said twice now that I agree with that statement. Why are you still trying to convince me of it? You kind of seem like you're arguing with me as if I was a Talimancer. No we don't know exactly what Quarians look like, but it seems pretty clear they are relatively humanoid. And speaking of Talimancers, most of them are probably straight humans. I think overall they're less likley to be attracted to Kal'Reeger than Tali. I don't see why the reverse wouldn't also still be true. But again, I suppose it still comes down to everyone's personal perspective on the matter.

I'm hardly an expert on romance but I don't think the amount of bacteria somebody has often factors into sexual attraction. Attraction isn't exactly a rational decision, how dangerous it would be to act on those feels with a person isn't something that factors in.

I don't understand the chainsaw simile. It makes no sense. Quarians don't look like chainsaws. Chainsaws don't look like anything humans are attracted to. Being aware that chainsaws are dangerous is a concious thought process, Tali being sexually attracted to Shepard isn't. Chainsaws are dangerous in a different way than bacteria. Sleeping with a chainsaw would cause painful dismemberment. Tali sleeping with Shepard would not. She even says that it's possible.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 16 mai 2011 - 11:20 .

[Ryzaki]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...
That question begs why half of your party stays with you or shows any interest in you when you're telling them off. That's a general issue not related to character at all, but Bioware's attempt to make the game relatively equal for both Paragon and Renegade players. 

It's also simply possible she didn't even realize she liked you while on the ship in ME1. Then suddenly, you die, and this hole is left in her life that she suddenly realizes she wants filled (ha!). Death has an interesting way of making us reflect on our pasts and the people in them.

But with Kaidan/Ashley/Liara it makes sense. 

Kaidan/Ash were subordinates they didn't have anywhere else to go. You can also renegade them (depending on Shep's gender). 

Liara is obessed with Shepard and wants to help regardless of how Shep treats her (she's another one that makes me shake my head)

Garrus...makes sense for ME1 by wanting to stop Saren. ME2...yeah the old friend crap makes no sense there. But then again you can renegade him too and Shep can probably see him as an equal. 

Wrex..same with Garrus except for the renegading bit. (or you could just shot him). 

And the latter...the douchebag dying made her realize she missed him browbeating her and that she loved him all along? 

That...makes me sick to my stomach actually. 

[Black Raptor]

iRipper wrote...

I think it would totally ruin the characters for straight people if old squaddies begin acting like gay or lesbian. 

I mean I woudn't look at Garrus the same way if he turns out to be a possible gay.   Just no 
 

We already know he isn't due to the romance option in ME2 with femshep. At most he could possibly be bi, or just experimenting. Besides, who says being attracted to other males is/was ever frowned upon in turian culture or is even midly uncommon? Perhaps they all do it to an extent, who knows, and why would you care? 

The only people against this are homophobes, or so unsure of their own sexual preference that they don't want to risk anything gay incase they get infected. 

[WizenSlinky0]

cnielsen8 wrote...

If it's new characters, fine. If all of the old crew starts turning bisexual then I'm done with this series. DA2 was bad enough what with virtually every character being bi, but I really don't want to see ME3 ruined because Bioware wants to appeal to the minority of players.

And I think it's unfair for those in the majority (me included) to ask for special treatment in a game just because they represent the majority. It's Bioware's decision to make and not enjoying the rest of the content because you dislike completely optional aspects of a character is faulty logic.

There's a valid point to make for discontinuity. That will come down to implementation, not the option itself, and concerns should be reflected as such.

Ryzaki wrote...

But with Kaidan/Ashley/Liara it makes sense. 

Kaidan/Ash were subordinates they didn't have anywhere else to go. You can also renegade them (depending on Shep's gender). 

Liara
is obessed with Shepard and wants to help regardless of how Shep treats
her (she's another one that makes me shake my head)

Garrus...makes
sense for ME1 by wanting to stop Saren. ME2...yeah the old friend crap
makes no sense there. But then again you can renegade him too and Shep
can probably see him as an equal. 

Wrex..same with Garrus except for the renegading bit. (or you could just shot him). 

And the latter...the douchebag dying made her realize she missed him browbeating her and that she loved him all along? 

That...makes me sick to my stomach actually. 

Really? Kaidan and Ash could have asked for a re-assignment if you were a complete ass to them.

Garrus had already shown a willingless and desire to bend the rules. He could have tried to stop Saren himself.

Wrex is just Renegade to the core. I did say half the party.

Liara, well she went renegade in ME2 anyway. So I'm not really sure how to respond to her character. I don't quite get her.

I'm making a general statement on him dying. It makes complete sense for a Paragon, maybe not always a Rengade, but when it comes down to it that is an IMPLEMENTATION issue and not a character issue. Or maybe it is a character issue. She does have a neglectful daddy issue. Perhaps she liked any attention, regardless of how mean. Wouldn't be able to tell you, didn't write her character.

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 16 mai 2011 - 11:21 .

[Ryzaki]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
You know I've said twice now that I agree with that statement. Why are you still trying to convince me of it? You kind of seem like you're arguing with me as if I was a Talimancer. No we don't know exactly what Quarians look like, but it seems pretty clear they are relatively humanoid. And speaking of Talimancers, most of them are probably straight humans. I think overall they're less likley to be attracted to Kal'Reeger than Tali. I fail to see why the reverse wouldn't be true.

I'm hardly an expert on romance but I don't think the amount of bacteria somebody has often factors into sexual attraction. Attraction isn't exactly a rational decision, how dangerous it would be to act on those feels with a person isn't something that factors in.

I don't understand the chainsaw simile. It makes no sense. Quarians don't look like chainsaws. Chainsaws don't look like anything humans are attracted to. Being aware that chainsaws are dangerous is a concious thought process, Tali being sexually attracted to Shepard isn't. Chainsaws are dangerous in a different way than bacteria. Sleeping with a chainsaw would cause painful dismemberment. Tali sleeping with Shepard would not. She even says that it's possible.

Chainsaw as in something liable to kill you if you tried having sex with it.

Maybe not for you. But plenty of people take a step back when their potential partner ends up with AIDS or another STD. So yes hazards to factor into how willing someone is to have sex with someone for some people (I would even go out on a limb and say a lot). 

Yes it would. Her having sex wth him could cause a allergic reaction that might cause death. It just happens that all that happens is she gets a fever because she took precautions (which to me is riduclous. She should've died from being sluggish during the SM and since when could Quarians avoid infection from direct exposure because of some herbal supplements?) and magically ends up perfectly okay. It being possible is like screwing a horse. Doesn't make it any less foolish or dangerous. 

That said I find the whole Talimance ridculously out of character and only there for fanservice. That doesn't change just because it's an o/s romance. What I find hilarious is that they refuse to let anyone else have fanservice as well with the excuse that it "cheapens the character" when in my view that's exactly what the Talimance did to Tali. 
But of course Tali is a special litte snowflake and it doesn't matter when it's her.  

And yes I'm have posting half ranting. Sorry about that. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 11:28 .

[Ryzaki]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Really? Kaidan and Ash could have asked for a re-assignment if you were a complete ass to them.

Not if they thought they were making an actual difference. Not to mention I have a feeling they would've stayed just to spite you. Ashley certainly doesn't seem willing to leave even when Shepard tells her to GTFO. 

Garrus had already shown a willingless and desire to bend the rules. He could have tried to stop Saren himself.

Foolish. He doesn't have Shepard's resources. And after he learns about the Cipher there would be no point because only Shepard could lead him to Saren. 

Wrex is just Renegade to the core. I did say half the party.

Liara, well she went renegade in ME2 anyway. So I'm not really sure how to respond to her character. I don't quite get her.

I'm making a general statement on him dying. It makes complete sense for a Paragon, maybe not always a Rengade, but when it comes down to it that is an IMPLEMENTATION issue and not a character issue. Or maybe it is a character issue. She does have a neglectful daddy issue. Perhaps she liked any attention, regardless of how mean. Wouldn't be able to tell you, didn't write her character.

 

LOL. 

Liara confuses me. I jus chalk it up to stalker and leave it be. 

Not even. A paragon can completely ignore her. That makes it less facepalm inducingbut not by much. Yeah I'll just take the wanted attention explanation. Its the only way I can avoid facepalming. 

For all the harping about inconsistant bisexual romances the heterosexual ones aren't too consistent to start with. <_<

[Jedi Master of Orion]

My point about the chainsaw is that having sex with a chainsaw is and being killed is still very different from having sex with a person and getting an STD and dying. Considering that I imagine that statistically more people contract STDs than suffer injuries from having sex with chainsaws, I'd say that it's a flawed comparison.

Not only that, but so is comparing it to having sex with an animal. Having sex with somebody who is HIV positive for example, is also possible but it's also dangerous even with precautions. That would be more like what Tali did. It's nothing like having sex with a horse.

[WizenSlinky0]

Ryzaki wrote...

Maybe
not for you. But plenty of people take a step back when their potential
partner ends up with AIDS or another STD. So yes hazards to factor into
how willing someone is to have sex with someone for some people
(I would even go out on a limb and say a lt). 

Probably because unless they had it, their partner had to get it from someone else. Which depending on the length of the relationship thus far...

Ryzaki wrote...
Yes it would. Her
having sex wth him could cause a allergic reaction that might cause
death. It just happens that all that happens is she gets a fever because
she took precautions (which to me is riduclous. She should've died from
being sluggish during the SM and since when could Quarians avoid
infection from direct exposure because of some herbal supplements?) and
magically ends up perfectly okay. It being possible is like screwing a
horse. Doesn't make it any less foolish or dangerous

Have you ever been in head-over-heels love before? I have. It makes you do some of the stupidest and dangerous things you'll ever do in your life.

She was on more than herbal supplements. It was basically like a **** load of immuno-steroids. Yes it was a big risk. The chances of her dying were likely high. The fact she survived can be attributed to either blind luck or plot armor.

Ryzaki wrote...
That said I
find the whole Talimance ridculously out of character and only there
for fanservice. That doesn't change just because it's an o/s romance.
What I find hilarious is that they refuse to let anyone else have
fanservice as well with the excuse that it "cheapens the character" when
in my view that's exactly what the Talimance did to Tali. 
But of course Tali is a special litte snowflake and it doesn't matter when it's her. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie] 

I couldn't care less who they offer a romance with to be honest, so long as it's written well. I don't have to romance anyone I don't like.

Ryzaki wrote...

Not
if they thought they were making an actual difference. Not to mention
I have a feeling they would've stayed just to spite you. Ashley
certainly doesn't seem willing to leave even when Shepard tells her to
GTFO. 

Foolish.
He doesn't have Shepard's resources. And after he learns about the
Cipher there would be no point because only Shepard could lead him to
Saren. 

LOL. 

Liara confuses me. I jus chalk it up to stalker and leave it be. 

Not
even. A paragon can completely ignore her. That makes it less facepalm
inducingbut not by much. Yeah I'll just take the wanted attention
explanation. Its the only way I can avoid facepalming. 

For all the harping about inconsistant bisexual romances the heterosexual ones aren't too consistent to start with. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

The point wasn't whether it was logical for them to leave. Only that they DID have options if they didn't like being under your command.

People don't normally do logical things either when in love or when pissed off.

I don't really mind Liara. She actually got a lot better in ME2 (to me, anyway). But she does confuse me.

The problem is we all form our own individual perceptions of how a character is supposed to act that may or may not be consistant with Biowares plans for them. When it comes down to it, the only ones who KNOW whats in her character are the minds behind them. Just like humans. We can pretend to know what someone will do all we want but we will never know.

[Ryzaki]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

My point about the chainsaw is that having sex with a chainsaw is and being killed is still very different from having sex with a person and getting an STD and dying. Considering that I imagine that statistically more people contract STDs than suffer injuries from having sex with chainsaws, I'd say that it's a flawed comparison.

Not only that, but so is comparing it to having sex with an animal. Having sex with somebody who is HIV positive for example, is also possible but it's also dangerous even with precautions. That would be more like what Tali did. It's nothing like having sex with a horse.

 

Having sex wtih someone with an STD doesn't always mean you'll get it. I just has a very high risk attached to it. 

And the STD comparison wasn't directly with the chainsaws. *rubs temples* 

Isaid having sex like a horse because it's sleeping with something outside the species. Something very few people do. 

What Tali did in my mind was comparable to a human sleeping with a animal that could kill them. But they took "precautions" so apparently it doesn't matter. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 mai 2011 - 11:38 .

[AngelicMachinery]

iRipper wrote...

I think it would totally ruin the characters for straight people if old squaddies begin acting like gay or lesbian. 

I mean I woudn't look at Garrus the same way if he turns out to be a possible gay.   Just no 
 

I don't understand this outlook,  Garrus would still be garrus.  He'd just be interested in some alone time with a male Shepherd.  Which come on,  the leap isn't that big after you boffed something outside your species.

[Murmillos]

hawat333 wrote...

Absolutely not.
Especially if it's thrown at us like in other BioWare games.
Why make the majority of players feel uncomfortable for being straight with characters like Zevran jumping and hitting at us?

How do people like you deal with real life.. honestly.

Life is full of uncomfortable situations - and those include love interests from people you really wish didn't.

Modifié par Murmillos, 16 mai 2011 - 11:36 .

[Ryzaki]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...
Probably because unless they had it, their partner had to get it from someone else. Which depending on the length of the relationship thus far...

LOL. 

Let's say the partner got it from a old school blood transfusion then. 

Have you ever been in head-over-heels love before? I have. It makes you do some of the stupidest and dangerous things you'll ever do in your life.

She was on more than herbal supplements. It was basically like a **** load of immuno-steroids. Yes it was a big risk. The chances of her dying were likely high. The fact she survived can be attributed to either blind luck or plot armor.

Plot armor. Annoying plot armor. 

I couldn't care less who they offer a romance with to be honest, so long as it's written well. I don't have to romance anyone I don't like.

This is true. 

I just felt like it was shoved down my throat when she refused to keep talking to me because my Shep said he wasn't interested in her that way. Ra forbid. 

The point wasn't whether it was logical for them to leave. Only that they DID have options if they didn't like being under your command.

People don't normally do logical things either when in love or when pissed off.

I don't really mind Liara. She actually got a lot better in ME2 (to me, anyway). But she does confuse me.

The problem is we all form our own individual perceptions of how a character is supposed to act that may or may not be consistant with Biowares plans for them. When it comes down to it, the only ones who KNOW whats in her character are the minds behind them. Just like humans. We can pretend to know what someone will do all we want but we will never know.

True. But they never take those options. 

I could see Ash ignoring logic because of anger but then again Ash wouldn't let Shepard driver her away. I don't see Kaidan leaving due to anger either. 

True it is BW staff that has the final say so.