89 réponses à ce sujet

[HSHAW]

@The Ethereal Writer Redux : You still haven't answered my question "How is the Architect setting the foundation for our downfall?"

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

haha thanks Crow. Merrill's always on my mind so this stuff just came naturally to me.


Flemeth is the Dumat OGB, whom I believe is in turn Andraste. This is fact. Just ask Rifneno.

True story, guys.  After giving blood magic to humanity, she condemned them for using it.  Then went around siring sociopathic daughters for...  I have no earthly idea what reason.

[TEWR]

Ah, well I meant that more as a lame pun. Architect, foundation.


honestly he may have changed since The Calling.

[WhiteKnyght]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

So, whilst driving and doing some errands twenty or so minutes ago, I wondered "What if blood magic is how the Taint can be cured fully and permanently?"

You see, I came to this idea after thinking about Merrill and the Eluvian. She cleansed the shard of the taint, which led me to this theory. We know that the Joining is a form of blood magic, but it's a very crude form it seems. What if it was possible to make all Hurlocks, Genlocks, Shrieks, and Ogres cured from the taint that infects them so?

If blood magic was actually what caused the darkspawn, what if it is also the cure to the darkspawn?


3.... 2... 1.... Discuss!

If Blood Magic was what caused it, then that would make the Chantry right and justify all their BS.

I'm thinking the dwarves might have had a hand in it. The Darkspawn first appeared in the deep roads after all. They are people of science and might have found or created the taint by accident.

[HSHAW]

Rifneno wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

haha thanks Crow. Merrill's always on my mind so this stuff just came naturally to me.


Flemeth is the Dumat OGB, whom I believe is in turn Andraste. This is fact. Just ask Rifneno.

True story, guys.  After giving blood magic to humanity, she condemned them for using it.  Then went around siring sociopathic daughters for...  I have no earthly idea what reason.

Is "for the hell of it" not a good enough reason?

[Rifneno]

HSHAW wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

haha thanks Crow. Merrill's always on my mind so this stuff just came naturally to me.


Flemeth is the Dumat OGB, whom I believe is in turn Andraste. This is fact. Just ask Rifneno.

True story, guys.  After giving blood magic to humanity, she condemned them for using it.  Then went around siring sociopathic daughters for...  I have no earthly idea what reason.

Is "for the hell of it" not a good enough reason?

Hmm.  Well Hell is certainly something I'd associate with Morrigan, so that's good enough for me.

[TEWR]

I also suspect that the dwarves were the original cause of the Darkspawn, due mostly to the Primeval Thaig.

here's another one of my wacky threads detailing the Primeval Thaig: http://social.biowar...4/index/7291020

I'm just saying though for this thread IF blood magic was the source of the Darkspawn. But I doubt it was myself

[HSHAW]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ah, well I meant that more as a lame pun. Architect, foundation.


honestly he may have changed since The Calling.

He's still trying to free the Darkspawn from the call of the Old Gods in Awakening (the last time we see him). He just found a way with a lower body count than tainting everybody in Thedas.

[nightscrawl]

IanPolaris wrote...

That is disputed.  Finn admits in Witch Hunt that he's heard both interpretations.  My take on it is a lot more cynical:  Both the Imperial Chantry and Andrastian Chanty have the same working definition of blood magic.  It's any magic they don't like.  Period.  Given that, I would not be suprised at all if the Chantry did not call the joining bloodmagic even if by some academic definitions it should be.  I know the call things (like shapeshiftiong) bloodmagic even when it's not.

-Polaris

None of you have even mentioned the whole demon thing in all of this discussion of blood magic, and I think that is a significant aspect of it.

According to the wiki, the reason for the interaction with demons is because blood magic is so rare these days that is the only place a mage can learn it: from a demon (and obvious associated risks.) The wiki also references The Joining as "being a form of blood magic," but there is no source reference.

I've never really thought of The Joining as blood magic. The Wardens are not using the power of life essence (blood), they are using it because it has the taint. You take the taint into yourself and if you survive you are a Grey Warden. The way I see it, a person would already have higher resistance (not immunity, since they are still afflicted) to the taint, they just wouldn't know it until the Joining ritual. If they encountered the taint in a fight with Darkspawn they might have just died in the fighting anyway (as we see most new recruits fall unconscious.) This is one reason why they try to recruit exceptional people.

The Grey Wardens themselves have no special powers other than being able to sense the Darkspawn (since they have the taint they are connected to the hive mind - The Calling says the Darkspawn can sense Wardens also) and a Grey Warden is required to kill the Archdemon (ending a Blight). This in itself is not a "special ability" but only being a human with a resistance to the taint. The Grey Warden strikes the final blow to an Archdemon, the soul passes into the Warden and both are destroyed because the Archdemon's soul cannot warp the soul of a human as it could a Darkspawn.


Blood magic is one of those things where the idea, the concept, is not necessarily bad or 'evil', but the implementation of it by mages with a lot of wealth and power (Tivinter magisters keeping slaves to use their blood), the potential of it to control the minds of others (usually a bad thing no matter the method), and the ability to bring forth demons into the mortal realm is what makes it so very bad.

It's very easy to see how what was once used as something to augment traditional spells turned into something greater. You start off using a little of your own blood, then you use more and more, then you kill someone to use their blood. Finally spells of the blood magic school are discovered allowing the control of minds, summoning of demons and so forth, more powerful than anything any mage has ever experienced. At that point there is no turning back.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I also suspect that the dwarves were the original cause of the Darkspawn, due mostly to the Primeval Thaig.

here's another one of my wacky threads detailing the Primeval Thaig: http://social.biowar...4/index/7291020

I'm just saying though for this thread IF blood magic was the source of the Darkspawn. But I doubt it was myself

You know, I noticed a line Anders said on the last playthrough that gave me an odd theory. I mentioned a while back that it would make sense for the lyrium idol to be the trapped soul of an archdemon if not for the fact the thaig is so much older than the First Blight. Anyway, Anders line when seeing Varric succumbing to the shard in the Haunted quest, "Here we go again! This things magic seems only more potent when broken." Huh. I wonder if he's onto something there. If broken, that may mean if something was trapped within that it's now released.

As for the Architect trying to free the darkspawn from the call of the old gods... ever wonder why he doesn't just tell the Wardens where the last 2 old gods are so they can be exterminated at the good guys' leisure? Seriously. He was the one that awoke Urthemiel (in a misguided attempt to give him the sentience ritual). Considering how many darkspawn there are, that he would just happen to be the one that found him is just not plausible. He must be able to find them more easily due to the fact he's a sentient being. That being the case, it stands to reason he could find the last 2 if he wanted. It's surely cost a lot of lives to have an expedition go down there and take them out, but not nearly as many as it would cost to have two more Blights. Makes me wonder if the Architect is really telling us the truth about his goals.

[IanPolaris]

Nightscrawl,

The wiki is wrong. Demons are the usual source of bloodmagic but not the only source.

-Polaris

[TEWR]

The Grey Wardens themselves have no special powers other than being able to sense the Darkspawn

Did you even play Warden's Keep?

[akayasha]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Grey Wardens themselves have no special powers other than being able to sense the Darkspawn

Did you even play Warden's Keep?

I don't think the Wardens there had any special powers. The Commander was possessed by a Demon. Her actual person did not have any magic powers, unless I'm wrong.

[TEWR]

to Rifneno, I remember somewhere that in the Dragon Age universe some people in the Deep Roads stumbled across Darkspawn digging through the earth (may have been Journeys). A theory I saw was that the Architect was using mindless darkspawn to find Urthemiel.

[TEWR]

akayasha wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Grey Wardens themselves have no special powers other than being able to sense the Darkspawn

Did you even play Warden's Keep?

I don't think the Wardens there had any special powers. The Commander was possessed by a Demon. Her actual person did not have any magic powers, unless I'm wrong.

Avernus' research deals specifically with the latent powers that the Taint grants

[akayasha]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

akayasha wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Grey Wardens themselves have no special powers other than being able to sense the Darkspawn

Did you even play Warden's Keep?

I don't think the Wardens there had any special powers. The Commander was possessed by a Demon. Her actual person did not have any magic powers, unless I'm wrong.

Avernus' research deals specifically with the latent powers that the Taint grants

Possibly. Though there could be a debate on whether his research is Blood Magic or not; however, this does not relate to anything about Blood Magic being the cure to the taint.

[Rifneno]

akayasha wrote...

Possibly. Though there could be a debate on whether his research is Blood Magic or not; however, this does not relate to anything about Blood Magic being the cure to the taint.

He tells you flat out that he's extended his lifespan and delayed his Calling with blood magic.  The guy's been there what, like 200 years?

[nightscrawl]

IanPolaris wrote...

Nightscrawl,

The wiki is wrong. Demons are the usual source of bloodmagic but not the only source.

-Polaris

It's fine if the wiki is wrong, but you can't just state something as fact without something supporting it... It can be assumed that the Tivinter Imperium still has the old knowledge and that mages outside Tivinter are usually the ones who deal with demons, but it's still an assumption.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Grey Wardens themselves have no special powers other than being able to sense the Darkspawn

Did you even play Warden's Keep?

I did. The powers/abilities that Avernus unlocks are optional and are not an innate part of being a Grey Warden, unless you're referring to something else. If so, you'll have to be more specific.

[TEWR]

at least.

I did. The powers/abilities that Avernus unlocks are optional and are not an innate part of being a Grey Warden, unless you're referring to something else. If so, you'll have to be more specific.

just because something is latent doesn't mean it isn't still there.

A latent volcano is still a volcano

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 mai 2011 - 02:19 .

[akayasha]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

at least.

I did. The powers/abilities that Avernus unlocks are optional and are not an innate part of being a Grey Warden, unless you're referring to something else. If so, you'll have to be more specific.

just because something is latent doesn't mean it isn't still there.

A latent volcano is still a volcano

That would be like saying every mage is a Blood Mage because they can be a Blood Mage. That's what Meredith was suggesting, and I thought that was unethical.

[TEWR]

The difference though is that mages can choose whether or not to be blood mages. Grey Wardens cannot cease being a Grey Warden, no matter what.

edit: my grammar is really off today....

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 mai 2011 - 02:38 .

[nightscrawl]

It's also worth noting that it says here that Avernus "notes that the demons are the source of blood magic." I'd have to play again myself to see how accurate that is however (it's been a while). =/

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

at least.

I did. The powers/abilities that Avernus unlocks are optional and are not an innate part of being a Grey Warden, unless you're referring to something else. If so, you'll have to be more specific.

just because something is latent doesn't mean it isn't still there.

A latent volcano is still a volcano

All of the abilities (with the exception of the sustained rogue ability) are very blood magic-ish in that they require you to spill blood or use blood as a weapon of some sort. The taint in the blood gives it an extra kick I suppose and (I assume) allows non-mages to use it as well. So it really is a combination of traditional blood magic combined with the taint. While it may give Wardens additional abilities and can greatly extend life we don't know what affect, if any, it has on slaying an Archdemon. So as far as I know, that works exactly the same.

Keep in mind when I mention here about slaying the Archdemon, anything in Origins cannot really be counted as a reference. They would not make any major plot developments center around a DLC. So whether you gained the abilities and had them while fighting the Archdemon in DAO is irrelevant since you would still live or die (or Alistair would live or die) based around doing the ritual with Morrigan; and while that might be based around blood magic (or special Morrigan magic...) it's not related to Avernus's research for reasons mentioned.


[edit]

Btw, until we have more info, I'll just go with thinking that Flemeth has something to do with everything involving the DA universe as it is currently.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 17 mai 2011 - 02:48 .

[IanPolaris]

Yes, Avernus says that Demons are the source of bloodmagic (this is disputed by Tevinter lore that suggests that Dumat, the God of Silence taught man bloodmagic btw), but that does NOT mean that you need a demon to learn blood magic. Jowan is canonical and he did not learn bloodmagic from a demon. That's just one (of several) examples, but I only need one.

The Wiki is wrong.

-Polaris

[TEWR]

Avernus, despite all his years researching, wasn't alive when blood magic first came into existence.


There is also a bit of evidence to suggest that the Arlathan elves were the first to use blood magic and the Tevinters conquered them for that information.

However, regarding your last paragraph about the abilities and the battle with the Archdemon, I agree with you. I still maintain my previous stance though regarding the abilities being latent Grey Warden abilities.

[nightscrawl]

IanPolaris wrote...

Jowan is canonical and he did not learn bloodmagic from a demon. That's just one (of several) examples, but I only need one.

The Wiki is wrong.

-Polaris

That's all I wanted really. Cheers.