153 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Humans, elves, dwarves and kossith are all alpha predators as well. Sapient ones, generally, can come to some sort of understanding with one another.

They are competitors aswell, however only the Kossith offer any real threat. The Elves have been subdued and the Dwarves show no interrest in the surface.

I can't offer anyhting but speculation about multiple sentient races sharing a world, but I'm willing to bet that no peace would ever be lasting. Nothing is more important to a species than survival, and if anything jeopardizes this survival, there will be war. Darkspawn, humans and Kossith are the major contenders of Thedas. Dwarves and Elves are minor factions in this.

[Xilizhra]

I hesitate to destroy anything out of hand, generally; I feel that the possibilities of sapient darkspawn are too fascinating to throw away. They could possibly discover their own origins, maybe even learn the truth about whether the Maker exists or not.

[dragonflight288]

They are competitors aswell, however only the Kossith offer any real threat. The Elves have been subdued and the Dwarves show no interrest in the surface.

I can't offer anyhting but speculation about multiple sentient races sharing a world, but I'm willing to bet that no peace would ever be lasting. Nothing is more important to a species than survival, and if anything jeopardizes this survival, there will be war. Darkspawn, humans and Kossith are the major contenders of Thedas. Dwarves and Elves are minor factions in this.

For some reason, I think the noble caste of the dwarves may be an exception to this idea. They'll value tradition over Orzammar's survival any day.

[Foolsfolly]

Elves need to rebel.

Seriously.

Somehow I thought that was going to be part of DA2. I blame Witch Hunt and the vartaraal (however you spell it) going nutso. Thought maybe Arlathan would rise or something.

Nope. It was mages who rebelled. For 1 mission.

[moilami]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And yet the Messenger never tried to kill anyone, and any corruption he spread weren't intentional. Yet still you paint all (sentient)Darkspawn with the same brush, and cry foul when people do the same with mages.
If killing Darkspawn for the threat they pose is okay, then it is also okay to kill Mages for the threat they pose. Both threats are genuine, both threats are dire, so why is it wrong to kill a mage, bt okay to kill a Darkspawn? Because they are threats. That is why.

Lol are you really comparing mages to darkspawn? :lol:

[TEWR]

TJPags wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Actually, the Architect tells you that the attack on the Vigil was a mistake - it was meant to be a peaceful meeting.

That's what the Architect claims, but it means ignoring that The Withered came to Vigil's Keep underground with a small army. It's also worth noting that his claim that all the Wardens were dead is another lie since The Warden knows that Keenan was alive, with both his legs smashed. I don't trust the Architect.

Was he supposed to go alone?  A talking Darkspawn walking up to a keep filled with soldiers and Grey Wardens?  A few months after a Blight?

I don't fault the stealth, so much, I certainly don't fault the group.  I fault the approach in general, which clearly could have been better.  More, I fault the reaction - instead of retreating, they attacked.  Quite successfuly, btw, showing their continuing danger.  Perhaps more dangerous with intelligence leading them.

In short, the Architect is short sighted.  He has grand ideas, but little common sense.

And no, I don't trust him either, for those and several other reasons.  It could be argued he's naive, not malicious.  Might make a difference for some people, but not for me.

"It has ended just as he foretold." - The Withered.


It's hard to know who the he is in that sentence, but it's possible "he" is the Architect.

[moilami]

moilami wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And yet the Messenger never tried to kill anyone, and any corruption he spread weren't intentional. Yet still you paint all (sentient)Darkspawn with the same brush, and cry foul when people do the same with mages.
If killing Darkspawn for the threat they pose is okay, then it is also okay to kill Mages for the threat they pose. Both threats are genuine, both threats are dire, so why is it wrong to kill a mage, bt okay to kill a Darkspawn? Because they are threats. That is why.

Lol are you really comparing mages to darkspawn? :lol:

Well but that explains...a lot :lol:

Lemme tell you something. Mages are not comparable to darkspawn :lol:

You don't have to fear and hate mages like you hate darkspawn :lol:

There just is no reason for it.

[Foolsfolly]

@ The Ethereal Writer Redux:

Yep. I'm totally convinced. The Architect just lies.

[TEWR]

Foolsfolly wrote...

@ The Ethereal Writer Redux:

Yep. I'm totally convinced. The Architect just lies.

but if the Architect truly was hostile, would the Withered have said "Be taking this one gently. We are wishing no more death than is necessary."


Bah! I'm so confused. Do I trust the Architect or kill him? There's too much confliction!!

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 mai 2011 - 05:59 .

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Humans, elves, dwarves and kossith are all alpha predators as well. Sapient ones, generally, can come to some sort of understanding with one another.

True, but sapient ones generally don't taint everything around them by their mere presence and require unspeakable horrors upon victims of other races to reproduce.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

but if the Architect truly was hostile, would the Withered have said "Be taking this one gently. We are wishing no more death than is necessary."

Bah! I'm so confused. Do I trust the Architect or kill him? There's too much confliction!!

He says that, but at the same time he doesn't try any sort of diplomacy. The WC's group expresses surprise that he can talk, and he answers them back. Yet he hardly says "Wait! This was not meant as an attack, let us talk!"

[TEWR]

fair point. But to be fair, the group pretty much declared they were going to attack.

Anders: It IS talking!
Oghren: Well, let's shut it up already!


I doubt anything that the Withered would've said would've changed their stance.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Humans, elves, dwarves and kossith are all alpha predators as well. Sapient ones, generally, can come to some sort of understanding with one another.

True, but sapient ones generally don't taint everything around them by their mere presence and require unspeakable horrors upon victims of other races to reproduce.

Actually, an alien lifeform would most likely "contaminate" the area around it, for the purpose of making the area around it habitable. Darkspawn aren't native to Thedas the same way as Dwarves or Humans are, they are completely alien, albeit not the kind from another planet. All the Darkspawn are doing is making the area around them habitable for the Darkspawn, so to speak. Though I doubt any alien lifeform would actually require other lifeforms to reproduce, unless we go all the way down to bacteria or vira.

[Rifneno]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Actually, an alien lifeform would most likely "contaminate" the area around it, for the purpose of making the area around it habitable. Darkspawn aren't native to Thedas the same way as Dwarves or Humans are, they are completely alien, albeit not the kind from another planet. All the Darkspawn are doing is making the area around them habitable for the Darkspawn, so to speak. Though I doubt any alien lifeform would actually require other lifeforms to reproduce, unless we go all the way down to bacteria or vira.

It's possible, but we can't know the likelihood.  If aliens exist, we know nothing about them.  A popular scientific theory is that all life on Earth evolved from a single life form.  If this is true then for all intents and purposes the countless trillions of living organisms here are rooted in only a singular example.  Meaning we have a sample size of *one* to determine the possibilities of how life can and cannot exist.  Needless to say, no conclusions drawn from that hold any water.

[Xilizhra]

Given the huge amount of infighting likely to take place among the darkspawn (that's already starting), the Deep Roads are likely to soon become a lot emptier. They'll have plenty of room for a while. Though reproduction is still a problem... I wonder how that could be changed?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Rifneno wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Actually, an alien lifeform would most likely "contaminate" the area around it, for the purpose of making the area around it habitable. Darkspawn aren't native to Thedas the same way as Dwarves or Humans are, they are completely alien, albeit not the kind from another planet. All the Darkspawn are doing is making the area around them habitable for the Darkspawn, so to speak. Though I doubt any alien lifeform would actually require other lifeforms to reproduce, unless we go all the way down to bacteria or vira.

It's possible, but we can't know the likelihood.  If aliens exist, we know nothing about them.  A popular scientific theory is that all life on Earth evolved from a single life form.  If this is true then for all intents and purposes the countless trillions of living organisms here are rooted in only a singular example.  Meaning we have a sample size of *one* to determine the possibilities of how life can and cannot exist.  Needless to say, no conclusions drawn from that hold any water.

If i'm not mistaken the whole theory about "water being a requirement for life" was proven to be wrong recently. A bacteria was found which lived in pure amino acid or something, which pretty much proves that we know squat about what life requires.

Okay.. That was a bit off topic..

[dragonflight288]

Anders: It IS talking!
Oghren: Well, let's shut it up already!


I doubt anything that the Withered would've said would've changed their stance.

Well how else would anyone react. Before the Warden even enters the keep, Genlocks are trying to kill him/her.

[TEWR]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Anders: It IS talking!
Oghren: Well, let's shut it up already!


I doubt anything that the Withered would've said would've changed their stance.

Well how else would anyone react. Before the Warden even enters the keep, Genlocks are trying to kill him/her.

Nah they just wanted to have some tea with the new Warden-Commander

[dragonflight288]

Oh. Right. How could I have missed that? Very well Mr. Withered, I'll take my tea with two lumps of sugar and five dead wardens please.

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

@ The Ethereal Writer Redux:

Yep. I'm totally convinced. The Architect just lies.

but if the Architect truly was hostile, would the Withered have said "Be taking this one gently. We are wishing no more death than is necessary."


Bah! I'm so confused. Do I trust the Architect or kill him? There's too much confliction!!

Living test subject? Something the Architect didn't get until the Warden walked into the Silverite Mine.

...never found out what he did to us either...

[TEWR]

you know, I really want to see a sophisticated Disciple. Along the lines of Sophistilax

[TEWR]

Foolsfolly wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

@ The Ethereal Writer Redux:

Yep. I'm totally convinced. The Architect just lies.

but if the Architect truly was hostile, would the Withered have said "Be taking this one gently. We are wishing no more death than is necessary."


Bah! I'm so confused. Do I trust the Architect or kill him? There's too much confliction!!

Living test subject? Something the Architect didn't get until the Warden walked into the Silverite Mine.

...never found out what he did to us either...

for all we know he found a way to rid us of the Calling without the stuff that Fiona had to go through.

[Foolsfolly]

Or sped it up to find the next Old God to experiment on.

I mean, really, there's no answers for us here. I'm sure some of the writers have ideas but there's nothing I can point to that says exactly what the Architect wanted us for.

...just vagueness. Which seems to be the preferred method of storytelling for the DA series.

[dragonflight288]

The more vague they are, the more we can debate the issues without every knowing what we're talking about.

[Rifneno]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If i'm not mistaken the whole theory about "water being a requirement for life" was proven to be wrong recently. A bacteria was found which lived in pure amino acid or something, which pretty much proves that we know squat about what life requires.

Okay.. That was a bit off topic..

Ahh, now I understand what you meant. Yes, NASA recently discovered a type of microbe that uses arsenic for "building blocks" that all other known life forms use phosphorus for. Arsenic is actually extremely similar to phosphorus, and that's why it's poison to us: our bodies will try to use it thinking it's phosphorus and we're only designed to use the latter.

So in essence we found another form of life that's made out of poison. I can see how that could be interpreted as a completely foreign life form essentially tainting all around it by its mere existence. It certainly makes a case that such is possible, but I don't think it shows it's likely. The main lesson we took away from this discovery is that the "6 things essential for life" is a modern day flat Earth theory. We have no idea what's impossible, only what is definitely possible.

A little bit of off topic is inevitable and sometimes fun. Besides, we should be able to get away with this little exchange since it's rooted in discussing the real life equivalent of darkspawn's corruption.

Foolsfolly wrote...

Living test subject? Something the Architect didn't get until the Warden walked into the Silverite Mine.

...never found out what he did to us either...

An excellent point. Funny how he didn't explain that crap when he confronts the WC at the end of Awakening. If he really is being honest and has truly noble goals, Bioware did a poor job of writing him in Awakening.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I don't actually think he got to do all his test on us. Perhaps we were busted out of his holding cells before he could start or conclude his tests.