338 réponses à ce sujet

[Darc_Requiem]

I actually like that my Lady Hawkes wear real armor. I actually like to thank Bioware for not making Lady Hawke look like an employee of The Pearl or The Blooming Rose.

[Amanda Jo Dragon]

I appreciate what Blue Face Beast had to say on this subject, and i agree of course. I do not however appreciate what Akka le vil said, referring to someone as a retard simply because there opinion is different than your own, i didn't realize i would see the high school bully mentality on a forum based on an 18 cert game i assumed we where all adults, and i also assumed we where all capable of an intelligent discussion without resorting to insults.

When i first posted to this forum, i simply wanted to join in with a community of gamers that like the same type of game as me, normally i wouldn't even bother, and i don't think i will again.

[CaptainBlackGold]

I always find it amusing when people dismiss feminine "fantasy" styles of armor with the "realism" argument.

In "reality" given the socio-economics of "fantasy" worlds steel would be extremely difficult to produce and hence, incredibly expensive. In our own world, in Medieval times, plate armor cost the equivilent of a small farm (i.e., several hundred thousand dollars, US) and even a "long sword" the price of a luxury sports car (somewhere between $75 - 100,000 US).

So unless the PC is a King or wealthy Knight, he simply could not afford to own either. Furthermore, if anyone on these boards can trace their ancestry to any Northern European peoples like the Celts or Germans, then we have actual historical evidence that your great-great-great grandfathers and mothers, often fought naked!

The only reason why fantasy RPG's allow low level characters to have plate or maille armor is not for "realism" but for "coolness" - people like the way those armors look so the game makers create them. But if we were actually IN those worlds, "realistically" we would have cheap cloth, maybe a little bit of leather (also expensive) and would be armed with knives, spears and small axes or even farming impliments.

Given that "reality" - if we envision a world where women can fight as well as men (because of the difference in muscle mass) and that armor would be too expensive for the average person, (not to mention factoring in climate and social customs) it is very credible that some women would dress "provocatively" while others more "modestly."

So if we are going to fantasize about having access to all that expensive armor, let us at least admit it is all about personal tastes and aesthetics. Real people dressed very much like Isabela actually were real pirates just a few centuries ago - they boarded ships clothed in silk, cotton and wool garments, fought and died, sometimes (shockingly) bare chested!

Personally, I am in favor of the Developers allowing us to dress our characters the way we want, however we want - hence the popularity of the PC modding community. For you console folks, I feel for you - I really do - because you are stuck with whatever armor styles the makers create for you.

But it is never about realism - it is about Bioware (and a lot of their fans) not wanting their game to be accused of catering to adolescent male fantasies, or being like those "hated" JRPGs or even being politically incorrect. Reality simply has little, if anything to do with armor or weapon designs.

Modifié par CaptainBlackGold, 17 mai 2011 - 10:56 .

[Abispa]

Realism is one thing, but this is about consistency and credibility. If all the male elves are smart enough to keep their abdomen's covered in combat, so should the women. That being said, I agree that players should have options. If an armor makes a woman look like Red Sonja, then that same armor should make the male look like Conan. By the same token, a Templar's armor shouldn't make a woman look like a courtesan.

[Mecha Tengu]

Abispa wrote...

Realism is one thing, but this is about consistency and credibility. If all the male elves are smart enough to keep their abdomen's covered in combat, so should the women. That being said, I agree that players should have options. If an armor makes a woman look like Red Sonja, then that same armor should make the male look like Conan. By the same token, a Templar's armor shouldn't make a woman look like a courtesan.

no

I want chainmail bikinis and impossible necklines, sideboobs, and ridicolous hairstyles.

[Abispa]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Realism is one thing, but this is about consistency and credibility. If all the male elves are smart enough to keep their abdomen's covered in combat, so should the women. That being said, I agree that players should have options. If an armor makes a woman look like Red Sonja, then that same armor should make the male look like Conan. By the same token, a Templar's armor shouldn't make a woman look like a courtesan.

no

I want chainmail bikinis and impossible necklines, sideboobs, and ridicolous hairstyles.

Dude, I know this cute little shop in New York that'll fix you right up.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

If you want to run around in a frilly dress and feel like a pretty pretty princess, go play Barbie Fashion Show.

[AtreiyaN7]

I don't know that I'd want anything super-revealing, but in my opinion...mage robes do still need work. Thankfully, I was happy with my mage champion armor at least.

[Darc_Requiem]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Realism is one thing, but this is about consistency and credibility. If all the male elves are smart enough to keep their abdomen's covered in combat, so should the women. That being said, I agree that players should have options. If an armor makes a woman look like Red Sonja, then that same armor should make the male look like Conan. By the same token, a Templar's armor shouldn't make a woman look like a courtesan.

no

I want chainmail bikinis and impossible necklines, sideboobs, and ridicolous hairstyles.

You'd love the female cast of the new Mortal Kombat game then

[PSUHammer]

OP, If you had it on PC, mods would have been your saving grace.

[element eater]

@captain black i would say it is't just about realism or coolness but also about making a convincing world many things like the medieval economy aren't needed to do this, However if you do go to far into the fantasy you start to make the world to difficult to immerse in and this when you start having problems with the setting.

Also in regard to your comparisons to actual history you jump around a bit to much and take things out of context which doesn't realy make for fair comparison.Yes 'celts' went to battle without a lot on but then they fought people that did the same if they had for example engaged a medieval army they would get absolutely slaughtered naked guys with crappy weapons wouldn't be able to do anything against a good unit Frankish nights. Like wise you say isa's a pirate so light or no armour is acceptable yes thats true but a 'few centuries' ago as you say people have guns making heavy redudant armour redundant if you took them out of context and had them in a medieval setting they wouldn't quite work the same. If your going to use real history as comparison I strongly suggest you stick to using it in its context other wise you can just say all kinds of things

any way i apologise for the rant i dont mean to be argumentative

ON TOPIC
well the problem with sexy armour on warriors is it kind of has the added affect of making the proper armour look pointless although on characters like rogues and Mages i'm all for it in moderation. seeing as they generaly were little armour anyway.

Also if you start adding to much sexy armour it kind of just becomes demeaning to an extent. I like that female warriors look equal to there male counterparts rather then just an excuse to show some cleavage

[Blue Face Beast]

element eater wrote...

@captain black i would say it is't just about realism or coolness but also about making a convincing world many things like the medieval economy aren't needed to do this, However if you do go to far into the fantasy you start to make the world to difficult to immerse in and this when you start having problems with the setting.

Also in regard to your comparisons to actual history you jump around a bit to much and take things out of context which doesn't realy make for fair comparison.Yes 'celts' went to battle without a lot on but then they fought people that did the same if they had for example engaged a medieval army they would get absolutely slaughtered naked guys with crappy weapons wouldn't be able to do anything against a good unit Frankish nights. Like wise you say isa's a pirate so light or no armour is acceptable yes thats true but a 'few centuries' ago as you say people have guns making heavy redudant armour redundant if you took them out of context and had them in a medieval setting they wouldn't quite work the same. If your going to use real history as comparison I strongly suggest you stick to using it in its context other wise you can just say all kinds of things

any way i apologise for the rant i dont mean to be argumentative

ON TOPIC
well the problem with sexy armour on warriors is it kind of has the added affect of making the proper armour look pointless although on characters like rogues and Mages i'm all for it in moderation. seeing as they generaly were little armour anyway.

Also if you start adding to much sexy armour it kind of just becomes demeaning to an extent. I like that female warriors look equal to there male counterparts rather then just an excuse to show some cleavage

You know what? Everyone is right in this thread.

Because all this is about is a matter of personnal taste and we all have the right to enjoy a single player game any way we want. What we do with our single-player game can't affect or hurt anyone.

You want realistic stuff? Sure why not. It is your game.
You prefer sexy and unrealistic armor instead? No problem. It is YOUR game.

The only real issue here is the lack of options given in the game to players.

And that can only be fixed with DLC or even better : Free Toolset Release.

[Drachasor]

Abispa wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Realism is one thing, but this is about consistency and credibility. If all the male elves are smart enough to keep their abdomen's covered in combat, so should the women. That being said, I agree that players should have options. If an armor makes a woman look like Red Sonja, then that same armor should make the male look like Conan. By the same token, a Templar's armor shouldn't make a woman look like a courtesan.

no

I want chainmail bikinis and impossible necklines, sideboobs, and ridicolous hairstyles.

Dude, I know this cute little shop in New York that'll fix you right up.

I don't know if you noticed his pic, but besides the blue eyes there isn't much to work with.

[CaptainBlackGold]

Blue Face Beast wrote...

element eater wrote...

@captain black i would say it is't just about realism or coolness but also about making a convincing world many things like the medieval economy aren't needed to do this, However if you do go to far into the fantasy you start to make the world to difficult to immerse in and this when you start having problems with the setting.

Also in regard to your comparisons to actual history you jump around a bit to much and take things out of context which doesn't realy make for fair comparison.Yes 'celts' went to battle without a lot on but then they fought people that did the same if they had for example engaged a medieval army they would get absolutely slaughtered naked guys with crappy weapons wouldn't be able to do anything against a good unit Frankish nights. Like wise you say isa's a pirate so light or no armour is acceptable yes thats true but a 'few centuries' ago as you say people have guns making heavy redudant armour redundant if you took them out of context and had them in a medieval setting they wouldn't quite work the same. If your going to use real history as comparison I strongly suggest you stick to using it in its context other wise you can just say all kinds of things

any way i apologise for the rant i dont mean to be argumentative

ON TOPIC
well the problem with sexy armour on warriors is it kind of has the added affect of making the proper armour look pointless although on characters like rogues and Mages i'm all for it in moderation. seeing as they generaly were little armour anyway.

Also if you start adding to much sexy armour it kind of just becomes demeaning to an extent. I like that female warriors look equal to there male counterparts rather then just an excuse to show some cleavage

You know what? Everyone is right in this thread.

Because all this is about is a matter of personnal taste and we all have the right to enjoy a single player game any way we want. What we do with our single-player game can't affect or hurt anyone.

You want realistic stuff? Sure why not. It is your game.
You prefer sexy and unrealistic armor instead? No problem. It is YOUR game.

The only real issue here is the lack of options given in the game to players.

And that can only be fixed with DLC or even better : Free Toolset Release.

For what it is worth, I think Blue Face Beast hit it right on the head - people ought to be able to play the game they want - and really, that's all my long above post was trying to make. The desire for "realistic" armor is just that taste.

And for element eater; yes, I did jump around historical periods - but only to illustrate that fighting near naked, or unarmored is a part of the historical record. Lots of people did it therefore it cannot inherently be "unrealistic."

However, the problem is that Bioware cannot win - no matter what they do. If they offer more revealing armors, they will get flack from one side. If everyone wears the equivilent of plate - then they get complaints from the other. The tool set works for PC players but not for consoles.

I do not envy them. Meanwhile, I see the NT guys have uploaded some new mods on the Nexus so I gotta go see what they look like in game!

[Shazzie]

Ok, I posted earlier about wanting my armor to actually BE armor. That's true, for me, and always will be...

But..

It's also great when everyone can get decked out the way they, personally, wish to.

I think my strong aversion comes from the past decade+ of MMO gaming... watching as my female character's armor got skimpier and skimpier, while all the male characters got the reverse. I got really sick and tired of wearing something that looked more like pasties and a thong than platemail. It was beyond irritating to know that my character was there to be on-display eyecandy for other gamers. That kind of causes me to have a kneejerk reaction when I catch even a whiff of such things, still, even though it's gotten better in a lot of games over the years.

In a single player game, though? Your character is YOUR character, it affects no one else, and everything in the game is there for YOU. Including how you dress that character up (or down).

[Harid]

Chainmail bikinis are stupid and you should feel bad for liking them.

[Theagg]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...


For what it is worth, I think Blue Face Beast hit it right on the head - people ought to be able to play the game they want - and really, that's all my long above post was trying to make. The desire for "realistic" armor is just that taste.

And for element eater; yes, I did jump around historical periods - but only to illustrate that fighting near naked, or unarmored is a part of the historical record. Lots of people did it therefore it cannot inherently be "unrealistic."

!

But, if you are going to use the point that people did fight naked in defense of near nakedness in armour design ( typically just for females ) in Dragon Age, then you also haveto include the fact that people fighting naked, or in simple cloth tended to die very quickly, or be incapitated from the first sword blow that hit them, one hack to the leg and thats it. Its only the fact that poorly protected irregulars in battle were there in massive numbers that negated this fact. Many would fall quickly, from the first blow but there were enough of them moving forward to keep the battle momentum going.

One on one near naked battles with bladed weapons though would more likely be over in seconds.

Modifié par Theagg, 18 mai 2011 - 10:22 .

[Theagg]

simfamSP wrote...

*cough* Isabella already filled in for the role.

I'm not sure what gives with Isabela's design in this game. I mean, most other combatants are wearing something that strives to approximate real world armour, be it leather or metal.

And then, Isabela strides in wearing a slip and a thong. That outfit doesn't even attempt to approximate to anything remotely close to the outfit a real world pirate would have been wearing (and by real world pirates I don't mean Captain Jack Sparrow eitherl).

[element eater]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

Blue Face Beast wrote...

The only real issue here is the lack of options given in the game to players.

For what it is worth, I think Blue Face Beast hit it right on the head - people ought to be able to play the game they want - and really, that's all my long above post was trying to make. The desire for "realistic" armor is just that taste.

And for element eater; yes, I did jump around historical periods - but only to illustrate that fighting near naked, or unarmored is a part of the historical record. Lots of people did it therefore it cannot inherently be "unrealistic."

i agree aswell the lack of variety is the main issue hear as long as one persons tastes dont completely overide anothers its all good

yeh sorry captain i just got alittle carried away perhaps, i have it drilled into my head never to use history out of its context and was also very tired is see the point  ur making 

[tmp7704]

Amanda Jo Dragon wrote...

You know the type of armor that you could imagine would cause the male warriors and yes even some female ones to hesitate and underestimate her, just long enough for her to turn them into bloody pools of goo

You know how when people play a multiplayer game and see someone running around in their underwear (but still carrying weapons) they don't hesitate but the opposite -- zero in on that idiot, because it's a fast, easy kill and removing that person still takes a valid threat out?

That's why the idea generally doesn't work in practice. People aren't going to think less about killing someone unprotected but armed when they're in real battle. To the contrary if anything, because then their life is actually at stake.

[Wulfram]

Theagg wrote...

I'm not sure what gives with Isabela's design in this game. I mean, most other combatants are wearing something that strives to approximate real world armour, be it leather or metal.

Varric's clothing isn't armour.  Nor are some of Rogue Hawke's armour options.

[tmp7704]

Isabela's introduction story makes it sound her outfit is just something she had on when her ship was sunk, and she's been literally washed ashore in it. It's made sound like even she realizes how dumb it looks to everyone around her, but that's all she has on her. Again, literally.

Of course, then she spends seven years without changing into anything more practical, but that's another story.

[the_one_54321]

Abispa wrote...
If an armor makes a woman look like Red Sonja, then that same armor should make the male look like Conan.

That sounds perfectly awesome to me.

People need to understand that there is no such thing as reaslism in these games. It doesn't exist. There is only internal consistency.

[Sabriana]

Varric is supposed to be a range fighter. Although in my play-through he often launched himself head-first into melee and got wiped by Fenris/mage.

Isabela made me cringe every time she jumped into melee. I already have put the companions in different armor. I couldn't stand looking at them another second. As soon as I find one, I'll put Isabela into proper armor. The armor the DA:O Isabela had on was revealing enough, imo.

I don't care how other people play their game and dress their pixel dolls. Do what you have the most fun with. If fighting/playing with half-naked men and women is fun for you, go for it. I don't mind looking at scantily clad, well build men (glistening:)), I just don't want them in *my* battle party, personally.