Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I still have yet to hear anyone who prefers DA2 explain exactly what DA2 does that, on balance, improves the gameplay experience.RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
I'm not sure about brilliant, but it was better than DAO.
;)
CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Did the OP just seriously compare DAII to BG? Seriously? This has to be a troll post.
suntzuxi wrote...
I only can say the concept of the game is brilliant, 10 years's spam for a single game is quite challenging to make, but the game itself is just ok, did not deliver its promise
RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Did the OP just seriously compare DAII to BG? Seriously? This has to be a troll post.
The games do compare. DA2 >>>> (BG + BG2 + NWN) * 10
Drasanil wrote...
Lol! That's not even Biodrone talk there, I think we have EAdrone here folks or some one that just doesn't like RPGs in which case yes... I guess DAII would be superior, the question would be why would you buy and play a genre you clearly don't like?
RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
suntzuxi wrote...
I only can say the concept of the game is brilliant, 10 years's spam for a single game is quite challenging to make, but the game itself is just ok, did not deliver its promise
Agree on the concept, but I think the game is mechnically great, not brilliant.
RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
RPGs are great. Great story, great fun. Mixing and matching +2 STR or +1 DEX +1 CON? Not fun.
It makes more sense to have visual effects come and go for purely metagame reasons?nerdage wrote...
Personally: removing the sustained ability effects made it alot nicer to look at and let it run an awful lot better on my computer, not to mention it makes a lot more sense;
And while it's true that in some cases, DA2 characters are more responsive than DAO characters, this is again not universally true. In DA2, in the midst of combat, it is not possible to stop your character doing whatever he is doing to make him do something else (perhaps because the circumstances of the battlefield have changed since your last command). Since DA2 attacks happen prior to the bulk oftheir associated animation, the characters are now trapped in that animation doing nothing while the battle takes place around them. DAO's design, where the attack happened at the end of the animation, allowed for more responsive characters in cases where you were revising previously issued instructions.for all the "Button Awesomz!" and " 'splosions" talk that goes on here, the fact that when I tell a character to do something they actually do it is a massive improvement, as opposed to watching that guy go for my mage for a bit, swiveling on the spot, then moving to attack them, they'll actually intercept them;
But at the same time, he can only show a very limited range of emotion as determined by the designers. While DAO allowed your character to experience many more emotions, but simply not express them, DA2 allows you to express a very small set, and all others are forbidden you.my character being able to show emotion, partly through dominant personality but mainly by simply having a voice
"Watching the story" is not gameplay. If you're not doing anything, then it's not gameplay. I specifically asked about gameplay. That requires that you be doing something. Simply absorbing the story passively is the absence of gameplay.meant they felt more like a real character and not an inanimate, person-shaped camera I was watching the story through.
Not all, but you've also sometimes ignored the costs of implementing them. You explained only why you like those features - not why they're better than the corresponding DAO features.There are some of my reasons. I bet you disagree with all of them,
There are areas where I think DA2 is superior to DAO. I think the unstructured narrative in Act I is really very good. There's no central plot driving the player's action. There's no overal linearity - Hawke is simply set loose in a city to make his way as he sees fit. DA2's Act I is the best example of this we've seen from BioWare since the Taris section of KotOR (and before that, Chapter 1 of Baldur's Gate - even Chapter 2 of BG2 had Imoen's kidnapping hanging over you).Also, there are areas where I prefered DAO too, I know this, personally I think both games come out about equal in the end, I can't clearly put one above the other anyway. Again, that's my opinion, I'm not saying one game is better than the other, just talking about my experiences with them.
Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 17 mai 2011 - 08:45 .
nerdage wrote...
Personally: removing the sustained ability effects made it alot nicer to look at and let it run an awful lot better on my computer, not to mention it makes a lot more sense; for all the "Button Awesomz!" and " 'splosions" talk that goes on here, the fact that when I tell a character to do something they actually do it is a massive improvement, as opposed to watching that guy go for my mage for a bit, swiveling on the spot, then moving to attack them, they'll actually intercept them; my character being able to show emotion, partly through dominant personality but mainly by simply having a voice, meant they felt more like a real character and not an inanimate, person-shaped camera I was watching the story through.Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I still have yet to hear anyone who prefers DA2 explain exactly what DA2 does that, on balance, improves the gameplay experience.RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
I'm not sure about brilliant, but it was better than DAO.
There are some of my reasons. I bet you disagree with all of them, but I like DA2 and you (I assume) don't, so why would we agree? If you agreed with me then one of us would have to change our opinions, not likely to happen.
Also, there are areas where I prefered DAO too, I know this, personally I think both games come out about equal in the end, I can't clearly put one above the other anyway. Again, that's my opinion, I'm not saying one game is better than the other, just talking about my experiences with them.
Modifié par Mick301981, 17 mai 2011 - 08:38 .
Yep. I don't actually dislike the game, it had the potential to trump DA: O, but the execution was...less than satisfactory.Drasanil wrote...
darknoon5 wrote...
In all fairness, everytime I press a button, something awesome does happen.Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I still have yet to hear anyone who prefers DA2 explain exactly what DA2 does that, on balance, improves the gameplay experience.RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
I'm not sure about brilliant, but it was better than DAO.
So I take you've moved on to playing something that isn't DAII then?
Modifié par nerdage, 17 mai 2011 - 09:09 .
It makes more sense that companions don't exude purple ooze because someone happens to be singing, or emit a big orange disk because they're being particularly inspiring. Moving most of the visual effects over to mages also seems to make more sense.It makes more sense to have visual effects come and go for purely metagame reasons?
I can't really answer that, but if I used more than three or four party-wide sustained abilities in DAO the game became almost unplayable with lag. Just my own experience.I have the opposite experience with performance. I find DA2 stresses my computer more than DAO did - DA2 makes my GPUs run hotter and thus my fans are louder. The difference could well be due to the vagaries of computer hardware, but my case shows that DA2 is not unequivocally easier to run.
You could call that realistic. If you're in the middle of throwing a punch it's hard to change your mind and stop mid-way through. It's still a rationalization, but it's justifiable.And while it's true that in some cases, DA2 characters are more responsive than DAO characters, this is again not universally true. In DA2, in the midst of combat, it is not possible to stop your character doing whatever he is doing to make him do something else (perhaps because the circumstances of the battlefield have changed since your last command). Since DA2 attacks happen prior to the bulk oftheir associated animation, the characters are now trapped in that animation doing nothing while the battle takes place around them. DAO's design, where the attack happened at the end of the animation, allowed for more responsive characters in cases where you were revising previously issued instructions.
If you have to change your combat tactics because of a faulty game mechanic, it's bad. I know the same could be said of the animations in DA2, but personally "He's casting a spell so he can't take any other action" is easier to swollow than "He can't move to attack that enemy because his AI is broken".Yes, it didn't make much sense in DAO that you couldn't intercept an enemy with a standard attack, but you could still intercept them with any attack that included a knockdown or stun effect. The player's inability to intercept opponents in DAO has been overstated.
Expression is what I want. This is probably one of those personal taste things we won't agree on but, if all the other characters can visibly and audibly express emotion, I feel my character should too. In (let's say..) BG, a lot of other characters' emotion was read in the text, so it made more sense that the PC's would be there too, but DAO just felt like an awkward middle ground.But at the same time, he can only show a very limited range of emotion as determined by the designers. While DAO allowed your character to experience many more emotions, but simply not express them, DA2 allows you to express a very small set, and all others are forbidden you.
I'm talking about dialogue, my character doing what I tell it to (i.e. saying that I tell it to), surely that's gameplay?"Watching the story" is not gameplay. If you're not doing anything, then it's not gameplay. I specifically asked about gameplay. That requires that you be doing something. Simply absorbing the story passively is the absence of gameplay.
I did, didn't I? DA2 ran and looked better than DAO, it had more resposnive combat than DAO, and I felt my character had more emotion than in DAO. The reasons I thought those things were worse in DAO were really implied in the statements. It's all purely opinion, of course, but still valid.Not all, but you've also sometimes ignored the costs of implementing them. You explained only why you like those features - not why they're better than the corresponding DAO features.
DAO was the reference, it was in the question and the answer. That said, it's all subjective anyway, this whole thread is, as is the idea that one thing is better than another (in this context, anyway).And since preferences are relative, describing things you like in the absence of an established frame of reference is literally meaningless.
BG2 spoiler here, if anyone cares...There are areas where I think DA2 is superior to DAO. I think the unstructured narrative in Act I is really very good. There's no central plot driving the player's action. There's no overal linearity - Hawke is simply set loose in a city to make his way as he sees fit. DA2's Act I is the best example of this we've seen from BioWare since the Taris section of KotOR (and before that, Chapter 1 of Baldur's Gate - even Chapter 2 of BG2 had Imoen's kidnapping hanging over you).
All as subjective as my points, but "the worst [...] encounter design BioWare has ever made" I would agree with completely.But I don't think that is nearly enough to overcome what I consider to be a dreadful loss of player agency in dialogue, and possibly the worst combat system and encounter design BioWare has ever made.
Modifié par nerdage, 17 mai 2011 - 09:36 .
Not that I know of. I looked on the nexus for one and didn't find any but that was a long time ago, might be worth a check.Mick301981 wrote...
Are there mods that remove the sustained ability effects? I'm genuinely curious, as I am getting DAO for my bare minimum requirements laptop next week and anything that helps the game run better would be great for me.
nerdage wrote...
Not that I know of. I looked on the nexus for one and didn't find any but that was a long time ago, might be worth a check.Mick301981 wrote...
Are there mods that remove the sustained ability effects? I'm genuinely curious, as I am getting DAO for my bare minimum requirements laptop next week and anything that helps the game run better would be great for me.
Drasanil wrote...
That makes no sense, if anything DAII's stat and bonus system is screwier than it's predecessor's. The only difference is dual-stat requirements making your choices for you and misleading star ratings telling you to equip junk stuff making it even more of a hassle.
RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
The stars are meh, I usually ignore them. I don't mind doing stat comparisons for one character... Hawke. I do mind doing it for eight characters. I find it painfully boring. I would rather spend my 60-90 minutes of nightly gaming playing rather than spend 40 minutes playing and 20 minutes going "hmmm, hat #1 or hat #2 for companion #5? companion #6?"
Grimmwor Runeforger wrote...
I have been playing DA2 since it came out. I still have not finished my first play through. I guess I am slow LOL. But...that is what I love about it...it reminds me of BG2...which was the game that got me into PC gaming. Developers...producers...fine job. I LOVE it.
Drasanil wrote...
Really? I generally equip my companions with the PC's handi-downs or things that I thought would have been fun but I already had something better or couldn't use , pretty easy to get a handle of and takes 10-30 seconds tops.
Managing companion inventory was also a lot easier in DAO than in DAII, since you could do it at camp. In DAII you have to constantly fiddle with the party selection screen to see what your group has and what to move around making things even worse.
Modifié par Drasanil, 17 mai 2011 - 11:35 .
Drasanil wrote...
RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
The stars are meh, I usually ignore them. I don't mind doing stat comparisons for one character... Hawke. I do mind doing it for eight characters. I find it painfully boring. I would rather spend my 60-90 minutes of nightly gaming playing rather than spend 40 minutes playing and 20 minutes going "hmmm, hat #1 or hat #2 for companion #5? companion #6?"
Really? I generally equip my companions with the PC's handi-downs or things that I thought would have been fun but I already had something better or couldn't use , pretty easy to get a handle of and takes 10-30 seconds tops.
Managing companion inventory was also a lot easier in DAO than in DAII, since you could do it at camp. In DAII you have to constantly fiddle with the party selection screen to see what your group has and what to move around making things even worse.
Drasanil wrote...
RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
So then what's the problem with removing the entire aspect of gearing companions? It's something people spend ten seconds on, I don't think it's a problem.
Because I like outfitting my companions the way I want them to play. I wanted to use Fenris and Carver more, but Aveline's sole perview of over sword and shields made that less possible. I wanted to put to use some of the stuff I looted/could buy but couldn't because my mage-Hawke could only wear robes with out being crippled and I couldn't give them to my companions. The amount of time it takes doesn't matter, it's what you're able to do with it.
erynnar wrote...
They needed to make a place they all met...like the Hanged Man.
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