288 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord_Valandil]

Realmzmaster wrote...
I always thought a difference that makes no difference is no difference. Maybe gamers are upset with DA2 because it mirrors life a little too much. No matter what choices your charcter makes the overall ending event is beyond their control. A lot of times in life you think your choices matter, but in the overall scheme they have no effect. Why? Because outside forces nullify your choices.
People want to have a sense of control in their gaming. DAO gave gamers the illusion of control. DA2 shows the opposite that sometimes your choices do affect the outcome.

I'd say it's a result of lazy writing and lack of time to do something better. Nothing more.

[Persephone]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

DAO didn't let you influence the plot much either. It was a tiny bit more flexible but at the end of the day, the bigger picture is identical regardless of your actions.

I won't deny that. The choices aren't that big.
But still, they were nice. And also, we had different endings and an epilogue telling us what happened after the main story...DA2 didn't even give us that.

I hated the DAO epilogue dos boxes. They were bugged and blah. Not really many consequences IN game. (TW2 blows DAO out of the water) 

DAII's ending left me wanting MORE. In a good way. I love the writing. And I'm sick to death of people telling me "You enjoy DAII? Awesome buttons found ya, lulz? Newb!" or "Never played an RPG, Biosheep?" or "You really should prefer DAO/TW2/whatever crap they prefer" . I think what I think. I like what I like and just because the herd follows the "Death to Bioware! Burn the witch called DAII!" mantra, doesn't mean I have to.

Oops....did I say herd? But I am the one who's a sheep, right?

Seriously, people have the right to love this game and I bet many do. I know of several members on this forum who do and have been bullied into silence. (And I bet they aren't the only ones)

People have the right to love it, I agree with that.
I wouldn't call you a sheep, or a drone, or whatever. Not cool. I'm not a bully.
As far as I know, I haven't picked up a torch and marched in order to bring Bioware down. But still...I'm kinda upset.
I LOVED the writing in Origins. Also in Awakening. But DAII...I don't know what happened. I just hate the story, the potential is there, there are some good ideas, but everything is wasted in a button-masher, go there and kill stuff. Meh.

I hated Awakening and I still do, heh.

I've not experienced button mashing at all. But I'm sorry if the story isn't your cup of tea. That's fine. I hope the next DA will be more to your liking.

[SoulRebel_1979]

DA2 is better than DAO like Phantom Menace is better than A New Hope.

Modifié par SoulRebel_1979, 24 mai 2011 - 09:28 .

[Persephone]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
I always thought a difference that makes no difference is no difference. Maybe gamers are upset with DA2 because it mirrors life a little too much. No matter what choices your charcter makes the overall ending event is beyond their control. A lot of times in life you think your choices matter, but in the overall scheme they have no effect. Why? Because outside forces nullify your choices.
People want to have a sense of control in their gaming. DAO gave gamers the illusion of control. DA2 shows the opposite that sometimes your choices do affect the outcome.

I'd say it's a result of lazy writing and lack of time to do something better. Nothing more.

And that's where I most vehemently disagree. I liked what I got in DAO and DAII. And I LOVED what I got in TW2. Strange, huh?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Realmzmaster wrote...
 Maybe gamers are upset with DA2 because it mirrors life a little too much.

First, they shouldn't market it as the complete opposite.

Second, the contrast this has with Hawke being able to single handedly kill hordes of enemies, monsters and dragons, makes the premise of Hawke being "normal" already weak and unsupported. 

Third, if realism is supposed to be about lazy PCs who sit around for years doing nothing while they have the power to, not use their brains once and just keep slaughtering what gets in their way, then yea of course you won't make a difference in DA2 with a lazy protagonist who does nothing.  That however, is not my idea of fun. Nor is it my idea of interesting. Rather, a pro-active PC that is at least trying to do something and being demonstrated that he is ultimately powerless, is something I can appreciate. It would be tragic. With Hawke however, I'd qualify it as the annoyance genre and not tragedy. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 mai 2011 - 09:35 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Persephone wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
I always thought a difference that makes no difference is no difference. Maybe gamers are upset with DA2 because it mirrors life a little too much. No matter what choices your charcter makes the overall ending event is beyond their control. A lot of times in life you think your choices matter, but in the overall scheme they have no effect. Why? Because outside forces nullify your choices.
People want to have a sense of control in their gaming. DAO gave gamers the illusion of control. DA2 shows the opposite that sometimes your choices do affect the outcome.

I'd say it's a result of lazy writing and lack of time to do something better. Nothing more.

And that's where I most vehemently disagree. I liked what I got in DAO and DAII. And I LOVED what I got in TW2. Strange, huh?

When everything leads to the same conclusion, despite making different choices, it's certainly not a result of "Oh mah god, life is like this, not everything is going to be the way I want".

[KnightofPhoenix]

SoulRebel_1979 wrote...

DA2 is better than DAO like Phantom Menace is better than A New Hope.

TW2 is the Empire Strikes Back of this analogy.

[Lord_Valandil]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
 Maybe gamers are upset with DA2 because it mirrors life a little too much.

First, they shouldn't market it as the complete opposite.

Second, the contrast this has with Hawke being able to single handedly kill hordes of enemies, monsters and dragons, makes the premise of Hawke being "normal" already weak and unsupported. 

Third, if realism is supposed to be about lazy PCs who sit around for years doing nothing while they have the power to, not use their brains once and just keep slaughtering what gets in their way, then yea of course you won't make a difference in DA2 with a lazy protagonist who does nothing.  That however, is not my idea of fun. Nor is it my idea of interesting. Rather, a pro-active PC that is at least trying to do something and being demonstrated that he is ultimately powerless, is something I can appreciate. It would be tragic. With Hawke however, it's annoyance. 

+1
I couldn't have said it better.

[Persephone]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
I always thought a difference that makes no difference is no difference. Maybe gamers are upset with DA2 because it mirrors life a little too much. No matter what choices your charcter makes the overall ending event is beyond their control. A lot of times in life you think your choices matter, but in the overall scheme they have no effect. Why? Because outside forces nullify your choices.
People want to have a sense of control in their gaming. DAO gave gamers the illusion of control. DA2 shows the opposite that sometimes your choices do affect the outcome.

I'd say it's a result of lazy writing and lack of time to do something better. Nothing more.

And that's where I most vehemently disagree. I liked what I got in DAO and DAII. And I LOVED what I got in TW2. Strange, huh?

When everything leads to the same conclusion, despite making different choices, it's certainly not a result of "Oh mah god, life is like this, not everything is going to be the way I want".

That's NOT what I said at all. *Headdesk*

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
 Maybe gamers are upset with DA2 because it mirrors life a little too much.

First, they shouldn't market it as the complete opposite.

Second, the contrast this has with Hawke being able to single handedly kill hordes of enemies, monsters and dragons, makes the premise of Hawke being "normal" already weak and unsupported. 

Third, if realism is supposed to be about lazy PCs who sit around for years doing nothing while they have the power to, not use their brains once and just keep slaughtering what gets in their way, then yea of course you won't make a difference in DA2 with a lazy protagonist who does nothing.  That however, is not my idea of fun. Nor is it my idea of interesting. Rather, a pro-active PC that is at least trying to do something and being demonstrated that he is ultimately powerless, is something I can appreciate. It would be tragic. With Hawke however, I'd qualify it as the annoyance genre and not tragedy. 

Sorry, KOP, gotta disagree. My Lady Hawke tried her damn hardest to keep the peace, keep her family safe and protect her friends. (Rivalry with Anders & Merrill in particular) No matter how hard she tried (And she was neither lazy nor doing nothing) , everything she loved slipped away from her one way or the other. And that moved me deeply.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

SoulRebel_1979 wrote...

DA2 is better than DAO like Phantom Menace is better than A New Hope.

TW2 is the Empire Strikes Back of this analogy.

As is Mass Effect 2.

Eh, not for me. I love ME2. And ME1 (and I love both much more than DA2). But TW2 is on a whole other level.

[Lord_Valandil]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
 Maybe gamers are upset with DA2 because it mirrors life a little too much.

First, they shouldn't market it as the complete opposite.

Second, the contrast this has with Hawke being able to single handedly kill hordes of enemies, monsters and dragons, makes the premise of Hawke being "normal" already weak and unsupported. 

Third, if realism is supposed to be about lazy PCs who sit around for years doing nothing while they have the power to, not use their brains once and just keep slaughtering what gets in their way, then yea of course you won't make a difference in DA2 with a lazy protagonist who does nothing.  That however, is not my idea of fun. Nor is it my idea of interesting. Rather, a pro-active PC that is at least trying to do something and being demonstrated that he is ultimately powerless, is something I can appreciate. It would be tragic. With Hawke however, I'd qualify it as the annoyance genre and not tragedy. 

Sorry, KOP, gotta disagree. My Lady Hawke tried her damn hardest to keep the peace, keep her family safe and protect her friends. (Rivalry with Anders & Merrill in particular) No matter how hard she tried (And she was neither lazy nor doing nothing) , everything she loved slipped away from her one way or the other. And that moved me deeply.

And yet, you cannot do something about your mother's fate. Nothing.
Or your brother. Or sister.
The lack of choice didn't move me...it just annoyed me. But I'll leave it there, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if you like the game, that's fine with me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

Sorry, KOP, gotta disagree. My Lady Hawke tried her damn hardest to keep the peace,

How?
For 3 years, she did nothing.

Other than constant slaughter, what did she do?

keep her family safe

Can you explain to me why she didn't investigate the death of her mother after finding evidence that implicates a member of the Circle to Quentin? Doesn't she think that this is a lead that should be followed up on and be investigated? 

And why didn't she invite Gamlen to come live with her instead of leaving him to rot? Minor point, but it greatly annoyed me.

As for keeping freinds safe. She constantly watched Anders slip for 7 years and didn't do a thing. Send him to a Dalish camp. But of course, Anders had to remain for the plot to work.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 mai 2011 - 09:44 .

[MorrigansLove]

Why is anyone even on these forums anymore?! Forget Dragon Age 2, and play the astronomically stunning Witcher 2!

Modifié par MorrigansLove, 24 mai 2011 - 09:46 .

[Lord_Valandil]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Why is anyone even on these forums anymore?! Forget Dragon Age 2, forget its mediocrity, and play the astronomically stunning Witcher 2!

Probably a good idea.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lord_Valandil wrote...
And yet, you cannot do something about your mother's fate. Nothing.
Or your brother. Or sister.
The lack of choice didn't move me...it just annoyed me. But I'll leave it there, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if you like the game, that's fine with me.

Actually, I personally liked all this and wished that DA2 focused more on family and not try to delve in larger issues, as it did it pretty badly (turned everyone into an incompetent idiot or a crazy lunatic). It would have had a stronger impact. 

[MorrigansLove]

*takes flame shield*

Give me all you got, punks!

Modifié par MorrigansLove, 24 mai 2011 - 09:49 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

MorrigansLove wrote...

*takes flame shield*

Give me all you've goooooooot...

The same one Radovid used in Act 3?
It's pretty potent.

[Lord_Valandil]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...
And yet, you cannot do something about your mother's fate. Nothing.
Or your brother. Or sister.
The lack of choice didn't move me...it just annoyed me. But I'll leave it there, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if you like the game, that's fine with me.

Actually, I personally liked all this and wished that DA2 focused more on family and not try to delve in larger issues, as it did it pretty badly (turned everyone into an incompetent idiot or a crazy lunatic). It would have had a stronger impact. 

For me, it failed from the beginning. I mean...what happened with the ogre and a family member is supposed to be sad, but I cannot feel bad about a character I just met.
And also...I still think they should have started with the destruction of Lothering, instead of showing us Hawke and his family running away, and then a lame "embellishment" from Varric, which was only Bethany's big boobs (because the enemies still explode all the time).

[Ariella]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Why is anyone even on these forums anymore?! Forget Dragon Age 2, forget its mediocrity, and play the astronomically stunning Witcher 2!

Astronomically stunning Witcher 2?

I'll wait for it to get patched and hope to God that they fix the lip synch for English language while they are at it. What I've gotten so far in the prologue of TW2 is barely able to read tutorial advice, climbing up several ladders, extremely jumpy movement, and lousy combat. Combat in DAO was better than what I've experienced so far in TW2.

And at least in Dragon Age 2 you got right into the story and the action rather than following someone around for the first 5-7 minutes.

I'm not saying TW2 doesn't have potential to be a good game, but calling it stunning is a reach.