288 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

This game is not brilliant.
Its an OK game...with SOME lulls in mediocrity and SOME flashes of brilliance.

Its a slightly above average game that provided a slightly above average level of enjoyment.

But brilliant....lets not get to far ahead of ourselves.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lord_Valandil wrote...
For me, it failed from the beginning. I mean...what happened with the ogre and a family member is supposed to be sad, but I cannot feel bad about a character I just met.

Yea agreed and I have suggested in the past keeping those two characters, but by Act 2 have them hold completely opposite views in regards to the mage / Templar question and have Hawke be right in the thick of it. DA2 wants to be a story about Hawke trying to keep his family intact and failing (or barely succeeding), something similar to Michael Corleone (fair to compare them? Nope)? That would have done the trick ande would have added a lot more tension and heartaches (the good kind).

And also...I still think they should have started with the destruction of Lothering, instead of showing us Hawke and his family running away

Yea, the beginning was bad imo. It neither starts with a bang, nor does it start slow. I am not sure how it wants to start. 

Being in Lothering and witnessing its destruction at the hands of darkspawn would have been better imo. As it stands, we're just running across mountain corridors, even though there's not supposed to be a mountain near of Lothering IIRC.

[MorrigansLove]

Ariella wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Why is anyone even on these forums anymore?! Forget Dragon Age 2, forget its mediocrity, and play the astronomically stunning Witcher 2!

Astronomically stunning Witcher 2?

I'll wait for it to get patched and hope to God that they fix the lip synch for English language while they are at it. What I've gotten so far in the prologue of TW2 is barely able to read tutorial advice, climbing up several ladders, extremely jumpy movement, and lousy combat. Combat in DAO was better than what I've experienced so far in TW2.

And at least in Dragon Age 2 you got right into the story and the action rather than following someone around for the first 5-7 minutes.

I'm not saying TW2 doesn't have potential to be a good game, but calling it stunning is a reach.

*hits with flame shield*

STAY DOWN, FOUL BEAST!

[Persephone]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
 Maybe gamers are upset with DA2 because it mirrors life a little too much.

First, they shouldn't market it as the complete opposite.

Second, the contrast this has with Hawke being able to single handedly kill hordes of enemies, monsters and dragons, makes the premise of Hawke being "normal" already weak and unsupported. 

Third, if realism is supposed to be about lazy PCs who sit around for years doing nothing while they have the power to, not use their brains once and just keep slaughtering what gets in their way, then yea of course you won't make a difference in DA2 with a lazy protagonist who does nothing.  That however, is not my idea of fun. Nor is it my idea of interesting. Rather, a pro-active PC that is at least trying to do something and being demonstrated that he is ultimately powerless, is something I can appreciate. It would be tragic. With Hawke however, I'd qualify it as the annoyance genre and not tragedy. 

Sorry, KOP, gotta disagree. My Lady Hawke tried her damn hardest to keep the peace, keep her family safe and protect her friends. (Rivalry with Anders & Merrill in particular) No matter how hard she tried (And she was neither lazy nor doing nothing) , everything she loved slipped away from her one way or the other. And that moved me deeply.

And yet, you cannot do something about your mother's fate. Nothing.
Or your brother. Or sister.
The lack of choice didn't move me...it just annoyed me. But I'll leave it there, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if you like the game, that's fine with me.

I lost my mother and a sister in real life too. And no matter how hard I tried, they both died. (And I was neither lazy nor doing nothing) I know that feeling all too well. And that's why this connected with me and why a "Yay! She's fine!" path would have been meh to me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
I lost my mother and a sister in real life too. And no matter how hard I tried, they both died. (And I was neither lazy nor doing nothing) I know that feeling all too well. And that's why this connected with me and why a "Yay! She's fine!" path would have been meh to me.

Just to clarify as anyone suggesting that loved ones dying is the result of a person's laziness is offensive and insulting, my comment about laziness and doing nothing is vis-a-vis the larger conflict, especially since Hawke could have done something and that the time interval was 3 years.

Like I said, I enjoyed Hawke's powerlessness in regards to family members and being hopeless in front of death (though question the logic behind the death of one of the siblings from the very start. I did not have as much impact on me as it could have).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 mai 2011 - 10:03 .

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sorry, KOP, gotta disagree. My Lady Hawke tried her damn hardest to keep the peace,

How?
For 3 years, she did nothing.

Other than constant slaughter, what did she do?

keep her family safe

Can you explain to me why she didn't investigate the death of her mother after finding evidence that implicates a member of the Circle to Quentin? Doesn't she think that this is a lead that should be followed up on and be investigated? 

And why didn't she invite Gamlen to come live with her instead of leaving him to rot? Minor point, but it greatly annoyed me.

As for keeping freinds safe. She constantly watched Anders slip for 7 years and didn't do a thing. Send him to a Dalish camp. But of course, Anders had to remain for the plot to work.

According to Varric she did "nothing" for three years. In my RPG way she did quite a lot.

The "O" signature struck her as strange but she didn't think of the First Enchanter then. (She had not even met him yet) 

She didn't invite Gamlen to live with her because he cheated her mother out of her inheritance, sold her into servitude and treated her rather cruelly, no matter how hard she tried to be kind to him. Only family moment with him she actually enjoyed involved Charade.

She did. She told him time and time again to let this go & not get himself killed. If not for his sake, then for hers. She did not support him (Except in "Dissent"). Anders/Justice made up his mind long before my girl even entered the picture. If someone is intent on self-destructing, no persuasion or orders will convince them otherwise.

And KOP....you know I respect you an awful lot. But please do not judge a playthrough you haven't seen. I RPGed the hell out of it & enjoyed it. You did not enjoy yours. But I enjoyed mine. (My canon Hawke esp.)

[Lord_Valandil]

Persephone wrote...
According to Varric she did "nothing" for three years. In my RPG way she did quite a lot.

Imagination is a wonderful thing.

[MorrigansLove]

In my "RPG way" Dragon Age 2 never happened, and it was all a really bad nightmare of the wardens'.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
I lost my mother and a sister in real life too. And no matter how hard I tried, they both died. (And I was neither lazy nor doing nothing) I know that feeling all too well. And that's why this connected with me and why a "Yay! She's fine!" path would have been meh to me.

Just to clarify as anyone suggesting that loved ones dying is the result of a person's laziness is offensive and insulting, my comment about laziness and doing nothing is vis-a-vis the larger conflict, especially since Hawke could have done something and that the time interval was 3 years.

Like I said, I enjoyed Hawke's powerlessness in regards to family members and being hopeless in front of death (though question the logic behind the death of one of the siblings from the very start. I did not have as much impact on me as it could have).

I'm curious, KOP, I agree that esp. after becoming Champion, she/he COULD and SHOULD have done more. (Act III really was problematic with the skip and its cut potential) What would your Hawke have done?

[Persephone]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Persephone wrote...
According to Varric she did "nothing" for three years. In my RPG way she did quite a lot.

Imagination is a wonderful thing.

I always use it during an RPG. It's how I "become" my character. It's how I can write DA fanfic that isn't just a retelling of the game limited by mechanics. (Whether the fanfic is any good is another matter)

[Persephone]

MorrigansLove wrote...

In my "RPG way" Dragon Age 2 never happened, and it was all a really bad nightmare of the wardens'.

My Canon Warden will know Kirkwall and its troubles. In my fanfic. We'll see how things will play out with her there to give my Champion a hand.

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
 Maybe gamers are upset with DA2 because it mirrors life a little too much.

First, they shouldn't market it as the complete opposite.

Second, the contrast this has with Hawke being able to single handedly kill hordes of enemies, monsters and dragons, makes the premise of Hawke being "normal" already weak and unsupported. 

Third, if realism is supposed to be about lazy PCs who sit around for years doing nothing while they have the power to, not use their brains once and just keep slaughtering what gets in their way, then yea of course you won't make a difference in DA2 with a lazy protagonist who does nothing.  That however, is not my idea of fun. Nor is it my idea of interesting. Rather, a pro-active PC that is at least trying to do something and being demonstrated that he is ultimately powerless, is something I can appreciate. It would be tragic. With Hawke however, I'd qualify it as the annoyance genre and not tragedy. 

Sorry, KOP, gotta disagree. My Lady Hawke tried her damn hardest to keep the peace, keep her family safe and protect her friends. (Rivalry with Anders & Merrill in particular) No matter how hard she tried (And she was neither lazy nor doing nothing) , everything she loved slipped away from her one way or the other. And that moved me deeply.

And yet, you cannot do something about your mother's fate. Nothing.
Or your brother. Or sister.
The lack of choice didn't move me...it just annoyed me. But I'll leave it there, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and if you like the game, that's fine with me.

I lost my mother and a sister in real life too. And no matter how hard I tried, they both died. (And I was neither lazy nor doing nothing) I know that feeling all too well. And that's why this connected with me and why a "Yay! She's fine!" path would have been meh to me.

I know my Hawke would've taken Bethany with her, and gotten the hell out of Jerkwall: the worst place in the universe.

I can think of quite a few places worse than Kirkwall, be it in RPGs or reality. But that's just me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
According to Varric she did "nothing" for three years. In my RPG way she did quite a lot.

Like?
We know for a fact that no one knew her position in regards to mages vs templars for 3 years.

Unless you want to tell me that she'd been subtly planning to grab power behind the scenes, which would be compeltely unsupported as there is nothing in the game or in Act 3 that remotely hints at Hawke being that pro-active.

The "O" signature struck her as strange but she didn't think of the First Enchanter then. (She had not even met him yet)

It's clearly from the Circle. It doesn't have to be the First Enchanter.

She did. She told him time and time again to let this go & not get himself killed. If not for his sake, then for hers. She did not support him (Except in "Dissent"). Anders/Justice made up his mind long before my girl even entered the picture. If someone is intent on self-destructing, no persuasion or orders will convince them otherwise.

Then why can't she stop him if she knows he's dangerous to himself and more importantly, to others?

Obviously, because Anders has to be there for the plot. which is not contradictory to giving people choice. Morrigan was crucial to the plot, and you can still kick her out of camp and she comes back. Why couldn't Hawke try to restrain Anders for instance and have him escape, only to re-appear in Act 3?

Instead, I am forced to watch my Hawke do nothing as Anders barges into his place with no permission, invades his property and shoves his manifesto everywhere. Now luckily, my Hawke sort of liked Anders. What if I want to play a Hawke that hates Anders? This would annoye me as heck.

And KOP....you know I respect you an awful lot. But please do not judge a playthrough you haven't seen. I RPGed the hell out of it & enjoyed it. You did not enjoy yours. But I enjoyed mine. (My canon Hawke esp.)

It's not that I haven't seen it. It's that I can't see it because it's not in the game.
You can enjoy it all you want, I am not questioning your right to enjoy anything.

What I am quesitoning is basing the idea of Hawke being proactive and not lazy on RPying that is not supported by the game. I am sorry, but it's not an argument. Act 3 did not show Hawke being proactive, just a ball between players, and it showed that for 3 years, she did not take a stand on any position.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 mai 2011 - 10:22 .

[TGiNcRySiS]

Far from brilliant. Decent at best. I am in my third and final playthrough now(barring any ground breaking DLC). Played all three classes and made different choices and that'll do it. Going to move onto the witcher 2 and leave this disaster behind me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
I lost my mother and a sister in real life too. And no matter how hard I tried, they both died. (And I was neither lazy nor doing nothing) I know that feeling all too well. And that's why this connected with me and why a "Yay! She's fine!" path would have been meh to me.

Just to clarify as anyone suggesting that loved ones dying is the result of a person's laziness is offensive and insulting, my comment about laziness and doing nothing is vis-a-vis the larger conflict, especially since Hawke could have done something and that the time interval was 3 years.

Like I said, I enjoyed Hawke's powerlessness in regards to family members and being hopeless in front of death (though question the logic behind the death of one of the siblings from the very start. I did not have as much impact on me as it could have).

I'm curious, KOP, I agree that esp. after becoming Champion, she/he COULD and SHOULD have done more. (Act III really was problematic with the skip and its cut potential) What would your Hawke have done?

Since Meredith is an incompetent idiot, she created a lot of potential enemies.

- We know that the people dislike Meredith from Act 2 (and even before that). Hawke can use her status as champion to lead them.
- We know the nobility dislike Meredith for her usurpation of power. Hawke can use her status of nobility and fortune to establish connections.
- We know tha the Ferelden refugees are desperate. Hawke can use her status as Ferelden to assemble them.
- We knwo the guards hate Meredith for her encorachement and trying to kick Aveline out. As a friend and supporter of Aveline, as well as a supporter of Kirkwall political soveregnity, Hawke can also lead the guards.
- Naturally, mages dislike Meredith and Hawke could have also gathered them under her banner.
- Possibly have Starkhaven as an ally at least for the long run via Sebastian.
- Finally, we know there are Templar dissidents since Act 2. Hawke can also assemble them.


Hawke had the fame, money, status to establish all those connections and forge a mass opposition movement against Meredith, who again due to her incompetence, was in a very fragile position and created all sorts of enemies.

And Hawke had 6 years to do this or at least start. He / she did nothing however.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 mai 2011 - 10:26 .

[Ariella]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Ariella wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Why is anyone even on these forums anymore?! Forget Dragon Age 2, forget its mediocrity, and play the astronomically stunning Witcher 2!

Astronomically stunning Witcher 2?

I'll wait for it to get patched and hope to God that they fix the lip synch for English language while they are at it. What I've gotten so far in the prologue of TW2 is barely able to read tutorial advice, climbing up several ladders, extremely jumpy movement, and lousy combat. Combat in DAO was better than what I've experienced so far in TW2.

And at least in Dragon Age 2 you got right into the story and the action rather than following someone around for the first 5-7 minutes.

I'm not saying TW2 doesn't have potential to be a good game, but calling it stunning is a reach.

*hits with flame shield*

STAY DOWN, FOUL BEAST!

Foul Beast, my rear cheek. You just don't want to hear about that TW2, like every other just released game, has its faults. And why haven't you taken your own advice yet? Go play TW2 and stop kvetching about DA2. It'd make the forums a lot nicer.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Play on Nightmare and tell me the fights are easy.

And have the ruleset make even less sense?  No thanks.

Also the speed of the swords isn't overdone at all. Clearly you are not a swordsman or have never seen a swordsman at work otherwise you would know this.

No person in the history of the world has ever swung a sword bigger than him as fast as these characters do - or run as fast while carrying one.  If the weapons in DA2 were closer to a realistic size, then I might accept these speeds, but as it is it just looks silly.  DAO's slow weapons made sense, I thought, because the weapons were so big.

And regardless of weapon size, those closing attacks are completely absurd, and you know it.

[MorrigansLove]

Ariella wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Ariella wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Why is anyone even on these forums anymore?! Forget Dragon Age 2, forget its mediocrity, and play the astronomically stunning Witcher 2!

Astronomically stunning Witcher 2?

I'll wait for it to get patched and hope to God that they fix the lip synch for English language while they are at it. What I've gotten so far in the prologue of TW2 is barely able to read tutorial advice, climbing up several ladders, extremely jumpy movement, and lousy combat. Combat in DAO was better than what I've experienced so far in TW2.

And at least in Dragon Age 2 you got right into the story and the action rather than following someone around for the first 5-7 minutes.

I'm not saying TW2 doesn't have potential to be a good game, but calling it stunning is a reach.

*hits with flame shield*

STAY DOWN, FOUL BEAST!

Foul Beast, my rear cheek. You just don't want to hear about that TW2, like every other just released game, has its faults. And why haven't you taken your own advice yet? Go play TW2 and stop kvetching about DA2. It'd make the forums a lot nicer.

So are we best friends now, or what?

[Skilled Seeker]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
And have the ruleset make even less sense?  No thanks.

What do you mean by this? You complained that the fights are too easy. DA2's higher difficulties are commonly accepted as being harder than DAO's. If you want more challenge then ramp the setting up. Don't complain about lack of tactics when you play on the kiddy difficulty.

[Ariella]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Ariella wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Ariella wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Why is anyone even on these forums anymore?! Forget Dragon Age 2, forget its mediocrity, and play the astronomically stunning Witcher 2!

Astronomically stunning Witcher 2?

I'll wait for it to get patched and hope to God that they fix the lip synch for English language while they are at it. What I've gotten so far in the prologue of TW2 is barely able to read tutorial advice, climbing up several ladders, extremely jumpy movement, and lousy combat. Combat in DAO was better than what I've experienced so far in TW2.

And at least in Dragon Age 2 you got right into the story and the action rather than following someone around for the first 5-7 minutes.

I'm not saying TW2 doesn't have potential to be a good game, but calling it stunning is a reach.

*hits with flame shield*

STAY DOWN, FOUL BEAST!

Foul Beast, my rear cheek. You just don't want to hear about that TW2, like every other just released game, has its faults. And why haven't you taken your own advice yet? Go play TW2 and stop kvetching about DA2. It'd make the forums a lot nicer.

So are we best friends now, or what?

A cheleyre, bubele

[Sylvius the Mad]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

What do you mean by this?

Look at how many HP your enemies have.  Compare that to yours.  Look at how much damage your enemies' attacks do.  Compare that yours.  There's no way those numbers make sense, and Nightmare just makes the problem worse.

You complained that the fights are too easy.

I didn't, actually.  I lamented how quickly they were over, and pointed out that their ease meant that tactics weren't important.

DA2's higher difficulties are commonly accepted as being harder than DAO's.

I'm very comfrotable saying that DA2's Hard is easier than DAO's Hard.  In DAO it was entirely possible to execute a bad tacitcal plan and get yourself killed, while DA2 doesn't really give you time to do that, so you never face any real danger.

If you want more challenge then ramp the setting up. Don't complain about lack of tactics when you play on the kiddy difficulty.

"Hard" is the kiddy difficulty?  Why are there two settings below the kiddy difficulty?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

If you want more challenge then ramp the setting up. Don't complain about lack of tactics when you play on the kiddy difficulty.

"Hard" is the kiddy difficulty?  Why are there two settings below the kiddy difficulty?

Fetus and sperm.