31 réponses à ce sujet

[M. Rieder]

I am making a resting system which will randomly generate encounters if you rest in cetain areas, modified by the highest survival skill rank in your party.  This opens up the possiblity of XP mining for players who choose to continuously rest in these areas.  Here are the options as I see them:

1)After the first few encounters in a given time period, stop awarding XP for the creatures killed in these encounters.

2)Systematically ramp up the difficulty of creatures encountered in a given resting period

3)Add a time limit to how long players must wait before resting again.

I like 3 but I'm not sure exactly how I would do it.  I am concerned about the scenario where a player rests, then enters a big battle, gets injured and uses up lots of spells and wants to rest again, but gets the message that they just rested, even though it would be normal to have to rest again after a big battle even if you had just rested.  I'm not sure how I could efficiently check to see if the player has recently been in combat.


Thoughts?

[MasterChanger]

I vote 2. Repeated battles being fought in one spot should draw all kinds of attention. The smart adventurer will soon learn that discretion is the better part of valor!

[Shaun the Crazy One]

I wouldn't worry about XP mining, as long as it's not a core part of the game play. There's no reason to put unnecessary constraints on the player. If they want to pull in a bit of extra exp to make the game the game a bit easier for them why not let them.

I would not recommend Systematically ramping up the difficulty of encounters. You don't want a player who rests a lot early on, to unknowingly cripple themselves when rest encounters become too difficult later on. This can make the game very frustrating.

[Alupinu]

Just use a lot of low xp creatures, also chance of encounter about 1-1D6. That way the player can farm all they want but it will take them around 5 hours to level and another 10 hours to level after that. This is how Fanglewood is set up for its world map wandering monster system.


BTW, no treasure! Make it a strain on the party resources. This will also discourage farming.

Modifié par Alupinu, 18 mai 2011 - 06:07 .

[PJ156]

1 for me.

If you ramp up the encounters where does it stop? are you going to have orcs that get tougher in each event or different critters. If it's different then when do the litches and dragons arrive and how would that spoil you feel for the game play.

Also I have this image of a long queue of mosters at the campsite waiting for you to go to sleep. Ice troll at the front all excited about the treasure they are sure to get and two greater demons at the back having a cigarete and taking bets on who would get to eat the adevturers.

If the encounters were fixed it would be in keeping with you area and if the players did mine themselves a level the amount of exp they got would drop making the next level a long way away.

I hesitate to cite technical difficulty as a reason not to do 3 as you will go away and do it anyway but also it's not realistic. The player should be free to do as they please to some extent resticting rest as you pass through an area seems sensible. Once you ave a safe place, if the player wants to build a log cabin and stay (perhasp a little hot waffle franchise) then they shouls be able to.

PJ

[Morbane]

Incorporate the MoTB rest system - eventually the message will say it is "unsafe" while initially it might say "safe to rest".

*Just another version of what MC suggested.

Modifié par Morbane, 18 mai 2011 - 10:26 .

[Arkalezth]

I tend to agree with Shaun, if a player wants to spend hours farming XP, let him/her. I don't find that funny, but others do. If a player spends 50 hours to reach level 30 and then complains about the module being too easy, well...that's not your problem. Maybe a player finds a boss too powerful. I think that the option to reload a previous save and gain an extra level should be allowed. The MotB/SoZ resting system is ok, too.

If you really want to include one of those 3 options, I'm between 1 and 2 (just don't put wandering liches, as PJ said). 3 is just plain boring and it doesn't solve anything either. If I want to rest and have to wait 10 minutes, I can just stare to the screen in the meantime. Boring, but effective. If I'm supposed to rest before a boss battle, but I've cleaned the previous area too fast, maybe I'll need to wait 1 or 2 minutes, doing nothing. So it's 1 or 2 for me. 1 doesn't seem very just, but it depends on the scaling of enemies in 2. If you just scale encounters to level, I'd vote 2.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 18 mai 2011 - 11:07 .

[Shallina]

Just set a max lvl for your campaign that wouldn't unbalance the game with a player too powerfull.

After if someone wants to reach the cap by XP mining let him be....

[M. Rieder]

Morbane wrote...

Incorporate the MoTB rest system - eventually the message will say it is "unsafe" while initially it might say "safe to rest".

*Just another version of what MC suggested.

Does the MOTB rest system take survival skill into consideration?

[Arkalezth]

In my experience, each rest adds a chance to meet wandering monsters, reaching a point when a fight is assured, and then the system restarts. I'm no builder, but I don't think Survival has any use there.

[nicethugbert]

#2 would make sense in some cases, but, up to a point. Otherwise the party could stay in the same spot until the universe is wiped out.

[The Fred]

Generally speaking, the critters which are usually spawned in for these kinds of systems are generic mobs, which are relatively easy (1 - wandering monsters are not going to be harder than boss-types, and 2 - the players are already tired out and low on HP, spells etc) and don't tend to have anything exciting in the way of loot. This means that you don't normally get an lot of gain from fighting them, at least not without them being actually challenging.

Furthermore, the game is geared up so that if you are a higher level, you will get less XP from combat. So imagine someone *does* grind up a couple of extra levels. Well, they're going to get progressively less XP, and they'll get less XP from the creatures they kill in the "main" game. Now, they'll always have more XP than someone who didn't grind, but their advantage will get progressively less as they go on. It's kind of how side-quests don't unbalance things too much, because players who are too low can't continue, and players who are too high may have an easy time of it for a while, but then hit the higher level stuff and the game catches back up with them.

Basically, I'd say don't worry about it unless it looks like a problem in testing. If quest XP is relatively high compared with random encounter XP, the chances are that it's not going to be worth people's time to "farm" it.

One thing you could do is make it so that after X attacks, you won't get attacked again for Y seconds. This would stop the game from being too hard or just really annoying as well as limiting the XP gain per unit time.

[steelfire_dragon]

think I'll vote for two, but hey its up to you

[Hellfire_RWS]

I wouldn't worry about it. its a single player campaign, if players want to ruin the exp by mining let them, after all they just as easily use the command console to give themselves as much XP as they want.

[manageri]

Why would you have them give any XP? If you don't want XP farming then don't implement XP farming at all, I don't know why you feel the need to make it any more complicated. The difficulty slider is there for difficulty, as well as the console if you really want a higher level instead.

[nicethugbert]

You could award XP for completing story mile stones instead of per kill?

[Omega27]

Its kinda hard to pick between 1/2. 2.sounds much better in a PW environment, with 1 being more desirable for a solo play environment.

[Omega27]

nicethugbert wrote...

You could award XP for completing story mile stones instead of per kill?

I also like that idea, ive decided to awared more xp throuhgh completion of Story parts. With monsters of course  giving the player 100-567 xp. When stories reward around 500-9000 xp 

[Eguintir Eligard]

just make rest encounters give zero xp. put your effort into the game, not timesink projects that are easily solved.

Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 19 mai 2011 - 02:07 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I have a resting restriction in my campaigns. For those who don't like it they can play in easy mode and that shuts it off. They can also edit a 2da to shut it off. I don't agree that after a big battle people should be able to rest so I don't allow for that. Resting is restricted to once within an 8 hour period.

The random encounters I use are generally fairly low level creatures (in wooded areas for example, there would be wolves, maybe a bear.) With the rest restriction in place farming for xp isn't really possible because once resting is successful (no interruption by beasties) you can't rest again for 8 hours. If someone wants to play in easy mode and keep killing wolves for meagre xp I'm not going to invest any time in trying to prevent that. I think they will tire of it long before acquiring any significant xp.

Regards

[Dann-J]

You can set the challenge ratings of the encounter creatures to zero. That way XP mining is only viable at level 1 to 3. Even then you'd need 50 kills to reach level 2, 112 more to reach level 3, and 177 more to reach level 4. After that you're only getting between 4 and 7 XP per creature.

Anyone that patient deserves some sort of reward.

[Morbane]

DannJ wrote...
Anyone that patient deserves some sort of reward.

Patients or persistence?

Anyway - a system just builds in detail to the gameworld - no system and players lose the plot - so I feel that having some sort of threshold is not a complete waste but a more complete control of how things happen.

Farming in a realtime/turn structure would definitely get boring fast and anyone attempting it would be truely be numb if they did not take note of the xp they were getting - so setting the threshold would be something to keep the plot on track not prevent cheaters(?) from, well, also losing the plot in place of playing in the designed power structure - which M.Reider seems to have a handle on.

So maintain the power threshold and the traditional ideas of D&D remain focused on adventure and combat simulation.

[Arkalezth]

Omega27 wrote...

Its kinda hard to pick between 1/2. 2.sounds much better in a PW environment, with 1 being more desirable for a solo play environment.

Care to explain why? This is for a single player module, by the way.

I also like that idea, ive decided to awared more xp throuhgh completion
of Story parts. With monsters of course  giving the player 100-567 xp.
When stories reward around 500-9000 xp 

Is there any reason for 567 exactly? Just out of curiosity.

I've never understood the point of having to wait 8 hours between rests, RP wise. Maybe not sleep, but rest? I understand it as a restriction, but I'd prefer a different system.

There are some good suggestions here (no XP for fighting, limited population, level cap...). But in the end, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you can't find a good solution soon, just focus your efforts in the module, you don't need to control every player's habits.

[The Fred]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

just make rest encounters give zero xp.

Why should I get XP for killing a monster I find in a cave but not for one who wakes me up in the night? What's the difference between them? Unless you're making the decision to give no kill XP at all (something I don't personally think is a good idea, but which I can see people doing), it makes no sense.

As soon as you allow unlimited monsters of any sort in a game, whether through resting, an overland map or other random encounters, or some sort of "fail the puzzle quest and you get attacked" thing, you get the issue of essentially unlimited XP. At the end of the day though, it's probably not going to be that big an issue. Farming for XP is not really any different to doing a quest for XP, it's just more boring. Once you have a decent number of side-quests you already have a situations where players can get to a point at varying levels so a resting system like this isn't going to hurt things much more. If it turns out to be an issue during testing, you can just tweak things a bit (e.g. lower kill XP and raise quest XP, or whatever).