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Steam IS preloading sometime on November 1st!


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#26
SilentCid

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Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Since I was one of the famous few fortunate enough to grab the DDE while it was 54.99 at Steam, I'm glad I didn't succumb to the temptation to cancel and go elsewhere to guarantee my immediate gratification on the 3rd.

Still, being the curious sort, I still can't help but wonder why the negotiations went as long as they did- From Derek's cryptic comments, it sounds like they had some sticking points they needed to work past on both sides. It probably doesn't matter, but I still wonder what went on between those two...


I would assume everyone's running around with their head cut off and that preloading wasn't on the very top of the list. I was one of those lucky people who got it cheaper too, I had faith that they would of done preloading. 

#27
DeviantJoker

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And now I can retire my F5 key for a while. Thankee Derek French, w00t.

#28
fairandbalancedfan

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SilentCid wrote...

I would assume everyone's running around with their head cut off and that preloading wasn't on the very top of the list. I was one of those lucky people who got it cheaper too, I had faith that they would of done preloading.


Maybe the EA guys mentioned something about Gabe Newell's weight.

EA: Yes Valve is certainly big name game devs, but not as big as you.

Gabe: what did you say!

#29
Lord Clocks

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Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Still, being the curious sort, I still can't help but wonder why the negotiations went as long as they did- From Derek's cryptic comments, it sounds like they had some sticking points they needed to work past on both sides. It probably doesn't matter, but I still wonder what went on between those two...


1) Putting a game up takes resources.  Allocating those resources X days earlier requires planning and movement.  Someone has to make the decision somehow on making sure that can happen, on one side or the other.

2) Publisher has to find a way that they can be ok with the way that valve puts the files on the end user PC such that they are protected against piracy, early play, etc.

3) Legal has to review anything agreed to to ensure that the distribution agreements in various territories are not violated by the work being done with a global digital distributor.

4) Its EA.  Greedy Bastardom has a cost.  Im sure it reared its ugly head somewhere in there.

5) This much content takes a while to prepare and make ready. 

#30
Lord Clocks

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fairandbalancedfan wrote...

Maybe the EA guys mentioned something about Gabe Newell's weight.


or valve teased him for his compromised laptop fiasco a few years back :)

#31
fairandbalancedfan

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Lord Clocks wrote...

Vylan Antagonist wrote...

Still, being the curious sort, I still can't help but wonder why the negotiations went as long as they did- From Derek's cryptic comments, it sounds like they had some sticking points they needed to work past on both sides. It probably doesn't matter, but I still wonder what went on between those two...


1) Putting a game up takes resources.  Allocating those resources X days earlier requires planning and movement.  Someone has to make the decision somehow on making sure that can happen, on one side or the other.

2) Publisher has to find a way that they can be ok with the way that valve puts the files on the end user PC such that they are protected against piracy, early play, etc.

3) Legal has to review anything agreed to to ensure that the distribution agreements in various territories are not violated by the work being done with a global digital distributor.

4) Its EA.  Greedy Bastardom has a cost.  Im sure it reared its ugly head somewhere in there.

5) This much content takes a while to prepare and make ready. 


Thanks, that's very insightful. I am however curious to know how Valve gets it's revenue from Steam, do the devs pay a definite amount in the biginning or is Valve taking a small slice from the sales ?

#32
fairandbalancedfan

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Lord Clocks wrote...

fairandbalancedfan wrote...

Maybe the EA guys mentioned something about Gabe Newell's weight.


or valve teased him for his compromised laptop fiasco a few years back :)


your own co workers mocking you, how heartless.

#33
Deadus

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Nice ! was all set to cancel my steam preorder on sunday if they didnt preload, glad to hear you guys pushed it through





fairandbalancedfan wrote...



Thanks, that's very insightful. I am however curious to know how Valve gets it's revenue from Steam, do the devs pay a definite amount in the biginning or is Valve taking a small slice from the sales ?


One of the devs on the torchlight forum mentioned steam got a percentage, didnt mention anything about an upfront cost, nor did he specify, saying they strike different deals with every company. I'd assume its similar for every game.

#34
Deadus

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double post =[

Modifié par Deadus, 31 octobre 2009 - 12:46 .


#35
Lord Clocks

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Deadus wrote...


One of the devs on the torchlight forum mentioned steam got a percentage, didnt mention anything about an upfront cost, nor did he specify, saying they strike different deals with every company. I'd assume its similar for every game.


K, the way that this works is that it is negotiated up front.  When you are working with a large publisher, they take care of this beforehand and usually have existing relationships that specify how your title gets onto the various platforms and what comes back to the publisher in terms of the revenue stream.   This gets you around (or at least part way around) many of the platform specific requirements that it takes to be able to get a title onto a platform and approved for distribution in that channel, build the preorder page, etc.

If you arent working with a large publisher or you are bringing an old game onto the platform, they want a demo or a game all ready to go and look at and then they will start the business discussion with you on whether its a good choice for the steam platform and whether or not they think it is a good fit for the games library.

From the financial end of things, yes I have done business with steam before but all of the stuff you get from them basically is under NDA once you start the relationship.  The SDKs, the documentation, even the terms of the agreement, because each agreement is different and steam does not make pricing public for all of the obvious reasons.  So anyone who has ever really worked with steam will never be able to tell you real specifics of what thier agreement was like.

In general terms, think of it kinda like using a lawyer on contingency.  They take X percent off the top of the game sales.  They turn over the rest of that money, MINUS REASONABLE FEES, to the publisher who has established the relationship.  Included in there, depending on what you have negotiated, is usually some bandwidth cost and depending on what other services they are providing, appropriate coverage for those.  Steam is much more than just a dumb storefront.  There is tracking of buying, buying vs platform specifications, traffic patterns, media performance, etc.  Maybe the more appropriate analogy is the records companies because there is a base cost for the platform stuff that has to get covered before you get money back.  Its not "free if you dont win" kind of thing.

Anyway, for a game like this, the number of copies sold and the money goes back to the publisher, they take thier cut and the appropriate royalties usually make it back to the development house, usually minus the appropriate expenses.  Because bioware is in-house to EA, I dont know the specifics of how that works, it may vary somewhat from how the usual developer/publisher relationship works.

DLC however is usually a direct no-cost stream because its not shelved and it doesnt go through steam.  Unless you use a business model like the Empire Total War expansions.  If the DLC is valve distributed, then it usually works similarly.  In Burnout and EAO and games of that nature, the download and store experience is direct.  MUCH more of the dollars spent in that channel make it directly to the publisher/developer depending on the agreements between the two.  But the publisher also hosts more of the infrastructure for that.  Thats one of the reasons you see DLC pushed more aggressively these days. 

Its a revenue stream that has been made available by high speed internet connection and is much "cleaner" in terms of being free from other parties fees and expenses before it gets back to those who made and published the content.

So $50 answer to a $0.40 question but there you go....

Modifié par Lord Clocks, 31 octobre 2009 - 01:07 .


#36
Lord Clocks

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After a quick google search, I dont feel comfortable writing a part 2 on how the publishing stuff works because not a lot is out there publicly.

Check out http://www.steampowe...ngservices.php and
http://www.steampowe...pmenttools.php and
http://www.steampowe...amworks/FAQ.php

And then look at https://partner.steamgames.com/

And thats as far as I feel comfortable going.  I dont need legal trouble Posted Image

Modifié par Lord Clocks, 31 octobre 2009 - 01:22 .


#37
Deran2

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Lord Clocks wrote...

After a quick google search, I dont feel comfortable writing a part 2 on how the publishing stuff works because not a lot is out there publicly.

Check out http://www.steampowe...ngservices.php and
http://www.steampowe...pmenttools.php and
http://www.steampowe...amworks/FAQ.php

And then look at https://partner.steamgames.com/

And thats as far as I feel comfortable going.  I dont need legal trouble Posted Image


A year or two ago Capcom talked about how the cost breaks down with console titles and a retail store. I'll see if I can find it, that should help shed a bit more light on your excellent posts.

#38
Lord Clocks

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Yes, I really am intentionally writing a post within a thread that independently has no value of its own just to bump the thread.



"Why?" you might ask?



Because there are 32,572 people who were clammoring about steam not preloading who need to be equally as silent now and therefore need this thread.



Therefore one may consider it bumped once by someone who usually does not do so.



If you have read this far, sorry to have wasted 30 seconds of your life.

#39
DeadlyVortex

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Not to de-rail, but D2D has pre-load now too :P

#40
MrGOH

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Which made a lot of Steam pre-order people nervous about the lack of official word on Steam's pre-load. Hence this thread. D2D pre-load is old news and everybody who pre-ordered got an email confirmation of preload and IGN is swathed in DA:O pre-load ads.

#41
templarcrosland

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Now if only Impulse can get a pre-load!!! You here me Stardock??? Get on this now!!!

#42
FinchyHoha

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Glad Steam got it together, but their servers will still get hammered even with the preload. Heck, their servers got hammered when Torchlight came out, and that was a 400 MB download.

#43
Martagin

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Praise be to Bioware/Steam! :P

#44
gewthenKartoga

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Yeah, that may be great. Assume the game is 15 gb. With a 6 Mb connection it would take around 7 hours at 600kb a second. Assuming of course the servers are fast enough to handle the transfer. Assuming you start it immediately when it begins to preload you tell it to preload. Really 2 days for preload? I suppose it is better than nothing. Doesn't help people with medium speed internet (~5Mbit) who want to play it as soon as possible and who also share that connection and use it for other things constantly throughout the day. If the servers are swamped, then expect 300kb and around 14 hours and even longer if steam messes up. Your better of doing Amazon's release day delivery in my opinion.

Edit: got my numbers wrong. That's what I get for making a post when I'm falling asleep at the keyboard.

Modifié par gewthenKartoga, 31 octobre 2009 - 04:36 .


#45
carlosjuero

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DeadlyVortex wrote...

Not to de-rail, but D2D has pre-load now too :P


Heh - D2D has had confirmed preload for about a week now.

#46
MrGOH

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gewthenKartoga wrote...

Yeah, that may be great. Assume the game is 15 gb. With a 6 Mb connection it would take around 45 hours at 800kb a second. Assuming of course the servers are fast enough to handle the transfer. Assuming you start it immediately when it begins to preload you tell it to preload. Really 2 days for preload? I suppose it is better than nothing. Doesn't help people with medium speed internet (~5Mbit) who want to play it as soon as possible. Your better of doing Amazon's release day delivery (or some other similar service) if you don't have a internet connection good enough to get it within time.


Took me 8 hours to download Empire: Total War, which was around 12 GB and had no pre-load (pre-load was cancelled at the last minute). I have your general Comcast cable modem service. I think 2 days will be just fine to download 16GB. Well, 3 days for me because I won't get a chance to play until Wednesday.

#47
DeadlyVortex

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Ahh, thats what i get for not checking the forums for 2 days...i come back, and D2D has pre-load, and everyone knows it but me, and i somehow missed it for the last 5 days while being on he forums :P I need to open my eyes more often :D

#48
Ravenshrike

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gewthenKartoga wrote...

Yeah, that may be great. Assume the game is 15 gb. With a 6 Mb connection it would take around 7 hours at 600kb a second. Assuming of course the servers are fast enough to handle the transfer. Assuming you start it immediately when it begins to preload you tell it to preload. Really 2 days for preload? I suppose it is better than nothing

*blinks* The game went gold a week and change ago. They had to negotiate preloading itself. Then they had to get a package to Valve to set up. Valve then had to test it out with their file structure to double check anything, and/or add security. They then had to distribute that to the servers used for downloading. Moreover, they started preloading L4D2 yesterday, so they want to get the majority of the people that are preloading that out of the way before preloading something as large as DA:O. It makes perfect sense for them to start preloading on the First.

#49
Lux

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templarcrosland wrote...

Now if only Impulse can get a pre-load!!! You here me Stardock??? Get on this now!!!


Alas, Impulse is not yet ready for pre-loads. Stardock will have this set up in the future.

#50
giskard44

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Thanks for the info invert180 :)