51 réponses à ce sujet

[Autoclave]

So you don't save the council and let them die. And humans take over completely the council? All human members?

Seriously? I just cannot believe that the other races will just accept humans taking over the council in just a few decades while asari, turians and salarians have a history of thousand years on citadel. 

I mean, imagine you have been a member of citadel council for over 2000 years, and so petty human now takes over it and you must follow their decisions in all aspects of alien political life? How can an all human council decide a dispute between asari and turians for example.

Modifié par Autoclave, 18 mai 2011 - 05:27 .

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, both games had a funny habit of pulling stuff right out of their asses.

[Autoclave]

I see your point. But the council has a history of thousand years. They have won wars with rachni and krogans. I don't really think they were so demoralized as Udina tried to make it

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Autoclave wrote...

I see your point. But the council has a history of thousand years. They have won wars with rachni and krogans. I don't really think they were so demoralized as Udina tried to make it

Those wars were some 1200 years ago. That is many dozens of turian and salarian generations. Galactic culture and society has changed a lot in that time. They are no longer the fearsome entity they were in the past.

The Renegade ending is also (incidentally) one of the most common ways for Republics (Or at least systems with elected leaders) Fall, over time the system grows less and less effective, a crisis rears it's head and a strong leader steps forward to save the day...and never gives that power back.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

The council races shouldn't be much worse off with the renegade end. I figured they would just appoint some new representatives. If they still have fleets then they are useful so they should be on the council. The only reason the elcor and volus aren't on the council is because they suck at fighting.

[Elvis_Mazur]

Yes, it is. I never chose that path.

[Kogaion]

i always end up with a full renegade Shepard but i let the concil die only once in my first playthrough ...long time ago...so i don't remember corectly ...the new concil placed after the old one dies is only made of humans ? or it's LED by humans and the other races still have councilors but don't get to make decisions as they use to?

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, both games had a funny habit of pulling stuff right out of their asses.

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

The council races shouldn't be much worse off with the renegade end. I figured they would just appoint some new representatives. If they still have fleets then they are useful so they should be on the council. The only reason the elcor and volus aren't on the council is because they suck at fighting.

Pretty much this.

[maxernst]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, both games had a funny habit of pulling stuff right out of their asses.

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

The council races shouldn't be much worse off with the renegade end. I figured they would just appoint some new representatives. If they still have fleets then they are useful so they should be on the council. The only reason the elcor and volus aren't on the council is because they suck at fighting.

Pretty much this.

Me too.  My mostly paragon Shep let the Council die and I was flabbergasted by the all-human council in ME2.  They just lost a bunch of politicians and bureaucrats; they have entire planets to draw on to replace them.

[Lord Exar]

I'm not saying it makes sense, but I always imagined that the Alliance came out of the war so strong that they muscled themselves onto the council. Then when other races disputed it, humanity sort of flew a few warships past and all was forgotten. And the people of the galaxy didn't know that Shepard was being a jerk when he let the council die, so there were probably a handful of pro-human aliens.

I also reasoned that during ME2 there's a huge power struggle going on behind the scenes with the human council and the other races. That the other races want back on the council and were, essentially, plotting a coupe or something that we never heard about because it was still in its infancy. It would be nice to see a brief scene where a coupe fails and then they put their differences aside to fight against the Reapers.

[Someone With Mass]

Also, the Council had been strong for over two thousand years. They must've replaced some dead members during all those years. What makes the Citadel attack any different?

I really doubt their fleets were that decimated in the attack, considering that the turian fleet alone literally outnumbers the Alliance's 5-1.

[The dead fish]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Also, the Council had been strong for over two thousand years. They must've replaced some dead members during all those years. What makes the Citadel attack any different?

I really doubt their fleets were that decimated in the attack, considering that the turian fleet alone literally outnumbers the Alliance's 5-1.

After Virmire , the " Allies " gathered their fleets to protect the Citadel against Saren. Shepard even said he wants to see the Normandy at the head of the fleet. But I agree, not all their vessels were destroyed. But they are weakened.

-Humans have protected the citadel, unlike aliens who have been incapacitated. Their legitimacy is made. There is no other fleets that at the end of the first episode can protect the citadel of any attack. Humans have taken advantage of this popularity, this fear, to force their leadership.

-There is no reason to threaten humanity without good reason, they have saved millions of people. They just abandoned a ship with three politicians aboard.

-The Turian are weakened, so they do nothing now. but if you listen to information about their non compliance with the standard about battleships, we see that they have not said their last words.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 mai 2011 - 07:51 .

[Wulfram]

In the renegade ending the human fleet sneaks in at the back and shoot a stationary Sovereign while the council races do the real fighting.  I'm not all that impressed, really, and I don't see why the aliens would be.

[The dead fish]

Yes but they lost their entire fleet, it is a fact, that's what counts. Currently they are unable to attack humanity.

Besides, they have no reason to attack humanity. They need humanity faced with new threats looming. They need humanity to protect the citadel, they can not do it themselves since they have lost their fleet. They need what it remains to defend their territories and their systems.

The aliens are responsible for the destruction of their fleet, they only had to listen Shepard. They refused, so they were taken by surprise. a strategic mistake that cost them.

And tell me what's the point of an attack against humanity in that ? To engage in total war, while they saved the world? While they are weak and they tend to focus on rebuilding their health? It makes no sense.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 mai 2011 - 08:19 .

[Wulfram]

If they'd listened to Shepard the citadel would have been less well defended, as far as I can see, since they'd have sent it (edit: the fleet) away to Ilos.

There's no reason for them to attack humanity, but there's no reason to accept human "leadership" either.

Modifié par Wulfram, 19 mai 2011 - 09:06 .

[The dead fish]

If they had listened to Shepard, they could stop Saren on Ilos and attack the Geth fleet. They certainly would not have lost their entire fleet. It is their fear of the politican consequences about Terminus system's reaction that has condemned them.

Humanity has enjoyed a moment of weakness, fear of geth just after the attack on the Citadel. Humanity has become the strongest race. They need humanity against new ennemies in their weakeness. Humanity is the only able and have the will to protect the Citadel.

The Council is composed of all races, but with humanity at its head. It's its fleet that protects the Citadel. It is therefore logical that it takes leadership.

And once again the aliens have not accepted their leadership imposed. See the behavior of turians. First they believe to rebuild their fleet, to rebuild their health. It's stupid to get into a war of influence in a weak position.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 mai 2011 - 09:13 .

[Wulfram]

If they'd sent the fleet to Ilos, then they'd probably have got there later - Frigates are built for speed - and got blown into small pieces by Sovereign if it hadn't already left.

I don't see how decrepit earth and a few scattered and tiny colonies can realistically constitute the strongest race.

[The dead fish]

Wulfram wrote...

If they'd sent the fleet to Ilos, then they'd probably have got there later - Frigates are built for speed - and got blown into small pieces by Sovereign if it hadn't already left.

Risky speculation, Shepard has been delayed with the capture of his ship. To each to imagine how long time sank before Anderson acts. One evening probably. Citadel fleet was already ready to take the plunge before the arrival of Shepard on the Citadel. A waste of time because of politicians.

They would have arrived on time and the geth fleet concentrated  would have been eradicated , taken by surprise. Saren would not have had time to make what he wanted. We see that when shepard jumps on Ilos, he wasn't even yet in the base.

I don't see how decrepit earth and a few scattered and tiny colonies can realistically constitute the strongest race.

The strongest fleet. that's what count. Witout any strong fleet, there is no real power.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 mai 2011 - 10:16 .

[Nightdragon8]

wait all the members of the council are human?? then why do they deny you the right to speak up, because effectively they all owe you a serious debt. but from what i understand is that the other races are still there, its just they don't want to see you because you are too pro-human to be called a specter, one who will defend the council from a threat.

The problem is that we don't know what exactly was destoryed in the battle. like how many dreads died and what not.

[Ghost Warrior]

It could still bite us in the ass in ME3. Probably will,actually.

[CroGamer002]

Humans are enforcing the coup.

[Someone With Mass]

The aliens hardly lost their entire fleet. The only dreadnought that participated in the battle was the Destiny Ascension, a asari dreadnought.