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[Someone With Mass]

Fully intact?



See that? Sovereign destroyed about five Alliance ships in that scene alone.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 21 mai 2011 - 01:14 .

[lolwut666]

If you let the Council die, the other aliens are cleary afraid of humanity.

Like that gun-shop owner. He is hostile at first, but when you choose the Renegade dialogue option for the discount, Shepard says "Yeah, well, you're fleet got pwned by Sovereign and we humans beat them all, now give me a discount, loser" and then the turian is all like "Grr... Yeah, fine."

They probably lost so many people to the geth, and were so terrified, that when humanity - who is the dominating force by then - said that they should be in charge, they all agreed because they'll do anything to survive.

[Bright_Ops]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

The aliens hardly lost their entire fleet. The only dreadnought that participated in the battle was the Destiny Ascension, a asari dreadnought.

They lost lots of other ships and a fleet of dreadnoughts isn't that uber with out cruisers and frigates to back it up.

It is also worth noting the location in which the fleets were lost. This left the Citadel undefended with only humanity's already highly mobile (and nigh fully intact!) fleet in the position to provide security. That's how humanity got power.

Sounds about right. 

Humanity seems to be the only race in the MEU that is well rounded in its warfare. They are the Jack of all Trades of the universe. All the other races have something they they are really good at (Like Krogen being great ground fighters.) But humanity trains its solders and pilots so that they can hopefully deal with any given situation at anytime.

But I do agree that the Renegade ending is unrealistic. If Shepard picked the 'Let the bastards die' option, I can understand why people would be really worried.  If it was just a 'Save our forces till the real battle with the Reaper starts' decision, I find that a sound decision to make and merely shows just how big a threat the Reaper ship was.

[Someone With Mass]

We're still talking about the Fifth Fleet, right?

[Someone With Mass]

Yeah, I don't think the whole human fleet can pull in and protect the Citadel.

[Someone With Mass]

You are aware of the human colonies that are spread throughout Citadel space, right?

[The dead fish]

Bright_Ops wrote...

But I do agree that the Renegade ending is unrealistic. If Shepard picked the 'Let the bastards die' option, I can understand why people would be really worried.  If it was just a 'Save our forces till the real battle with the Reaper starts' decision, I find that a sound decision to make and merely shows just how big a threat the Reaper ship was.

First. The aliens have lost a lot of ships. They had massed their fleet to fight Saren before the arrival of Shepard. They didn't expect to be attacked by a huge geth fleet on the citadel.

Second. What is unrealistic to focus on winning during a desperate fight  and not help a single ship ? Tell me because I don't understand your logic. Tactically, help the destiny ascencion is a big mistake. 8 cruisers lost for only three politicians who are easily replaced in contrast to a fleet. Eight cruisers lost  + five others cruisers  under fire from Sovereign.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 21 mai 2011 - 07:02 .

[Clonedzero]

i find it REALLY odd theres no like "vice-council" members for the turians and asari and salarians.

you think they'd have a plan incase one gets killed, or gets sick, or retires, or theres some scandal that forces them out of office ect. i mean every major government on earth today has some sort of backup plan like that

[KiraTsukasa]

I think something you're all missing is that the humans pushed for investigation into Saren's actions, into the Geth attacks, into Sovereign. The council merely laughed it off, not lifting a finger to find out what was really going on. And this was all public knowledge. During the attack on the Citadel, there was a large loss of life, militarily as well as civilian. This is going to be blamed on the Council, due to their lack of action to prevent the catastrophe. This would be reported as arrogance and lack of foresight of the Council and the actions taken by the humans would be regarded as heroic. If Undina pushed for an all human council, a council that would take action when it was required as already proven, then there is very little that would stand in the way of that. Maybe the Turians have a bigger space fleet, maybe the Asari have better ground troops with their commandos, maybe the Salarians have greater scientific minds, none of them were put to use to prevent the attack. This is the same strategy used by modern US presidency candidates, pointing out everything that was done wrong by the previous term holder and pushing what they can do right. What is more surprising to me, is not the all human council, but the fact that the three survived the political fallout of the attack and remained as the head representatives of their respective races.

[Aimi]

Maybe the alien Council has their own Malcolm Tucker.

Regardless, I doubt that, even if the Council were squarely blamed for the attacks and if they all got the axe, the asari, turians, and salarians would approve of a human-led Council to replace it. It just wouldn't make sense; just because the humans were right about one thing wouldn't make them right about everything, and the Fifth Fleet was more lucky than anything else. Look at it this way: the Americans came into the First World War in force around the time of the German Spring Offensive and helped plug the line and push the Germans back, performing an undoubtedly crucial role, but nobody was suggesting that Pershing get the nod as Allied Commander-in-Chief over Foch or that Wilson could write the Treaty of Versailles himself. The British and French had more men, more cash, more ships, and still effectively held the reins. Not a great analogy, of course, but most of the essentials hold up.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

You are aware of the human colonies that are spread throughout Citadel space, right?

Yes, and your point is...?

Use your brain for that one. I'm sure you vast intellect can come up with a satisfactory answer.

[tsk16]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

wait all the members of the council are human?? then why do they deny you the right to speak up, because effectively they all owe you a serious debt. but from what i understand is that the other races are still there, its just they don't want to see you because you are too pro-human to be called a specter, one who will defend the council from a threat.

The problem is that we don't know what exactly was destoryed in the battle. like how many dreads died and what not.

I assumed the new council dislikes you as you let their predecessors be vapourised by the Geth Fleet. Doesn't really give them confidence about the choice Shepard will make if he/she faces a similar issue

When I play Mass Effect I always let the Council live as I can't bear the responsibility of signing the death warrents 10,000 [I think its around that number] Asari

Modifié par tsk16, 24 mai 2011 - 10:10 .

[TheAzureVanguard]

I just think Bioware seriously f'ed up by having the ONLY 2 options be

1) Humans join the regular council

and

2) Humans eradicate the regular council and make an entirely Human council.

Option 2 is a possibility but I think there should have been option 3

3) Humans lead the formation a NEW 5 or 9 member species council with the Elcor, Volus, etc etc.

As for the losses experienced by the Council races I can understand the Asari being completely dismantle and crushed in spirits thanks to the Destiny Ascension being blown to hell. But the Turians and the Salarians? Umm whatever. I can only assume that Humanity in that scenario brings in the majority of its fleets to the Citadel in order to maintain a firm grip and the Turians decide that its not worth the fight.

[Vladilen]

Another thing I think is worth considering is that one of the main themes in ME1 is the human race proving itself to the rest of the galaxy. Just think about all the times someone tells Shepard that his behavior is going to determine how the other species view humanity. So, considering all of the other things people have suggested in this thread, add in the fact that it's humanity, which has entered the interstellar community only a few decades earlier, that comes in and saves the entire galaxy with a human Spectre who was the only one who saw the writing on the wall and the human navy that is left standing after the destruction of the enemy fleet. It would definitely shake up the other species and encourage a lot of doubts in them.

[Golden Owl]

Sylvianus wrote...

Bright_Ops wrote...

But I do agree that the Renegade ending is unrealistic. If Shepard picked the 'Let the bastards die' option, I can understand why people would be really worried.  If it was just a 'Save our forces till the real battle with the Reaper starts' decision, I find that a sound decision to make and merely shows just how big a threat the Reaper ship was.

First. The aliens have lost a lot of ships. They had massed their fleet to fight Saren before the arrival of Shepard. They didn't expect to be attacked by a huge geth fleet on the citadel.

Second. What is unrealistic to focus on winning during a desperate fight  and not help a single ship ? Tell me because I don't understand your logic. Tactically, help the destiny ascencion is a big mistake. 8 cruisers lost for only three politicians who are easily replaced in contrast to a fleet. Eight cruisers lost  + five others cruisers  under fire from Sovereign.

It was eight cruisers all up if you save the council...not eight + five.

[Golden Owl]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fully intact?



See that? Sovereign destroyed about five Alliance ships in that scene alone.

Just a point of interest...no for's or against's here in regards to saving or not saving the council, yesterday I finished ME1 again and tried to carefully watch the battle play out, I was watching for Alliance losses when saving the Dreadnought, then watched for losses when taking on Sovereign...my eyes may not have been quick enough to pick up losses against the Geth ships, but I am quite sure most of the losses occur when facing Sovereign....just reporting what I could see in the battles.

[Sharpy33]

 Unrealistic?

Your talking about something being unrealistic in a video game that has laser guns, blue aliens who can have sex with their minds, walking flashlight robots, giant genocide causing fish ships, telekinetic mind wielders, mind control indoctrination, talking bugs, and big stupid jellyfish?


 

[aimlessgun]

I was under the impression that the Citadel was the nexus of the relay system. That whoever controlled the Citadel, controlled movement through much of the galaxy. A chokehold if you will. The Alliance would have undoubtedly controlled the citadel in the aftermath of ME1. That would be extremely powerful leverage.