56 réponses à ce sujet

[ArawnNox]

Trefalen wrote...

I got it, mages have Force Magic. They must wave their hands and say "these are not the mages you are looking for".

*falls over laughing*

You, sir, win an internet.

[Trefalen]

[DrFumb1ezX]

Trefalen wrote...

I got it, mages have Force Magic. They must wave their hands and say "these are not the mages you are looking for".

"Move along, then, move along."  

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Trefalen wrote...

And Meredith hiring an Apostate?

She knows he is an apostate. Hawke just got too much political power to kill or imprison immediately.

When he's a refugee barely 15 minutes off the docks?  Really?  Remember it took three DAYS for Gamlen to pick them up after Hawke openly displayed battlemagic in front of the Maker and Everyone in the middle of Templar HQ.

It would be like saying, "I'm with the CIA" in the middle of Red Square in the middle of the 1960s.

-Polaris

[White_Buffalo94]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They are allowed to kill apostates. He pretended to be an apostate, while he was scamming the sick. If he put on a convincing act, the Templars have full authority to kill him. If they saw through it, they could kill him for being a scammer. While not allowed, I doubt a lot of people would complain.

If the templars can't discern that D'Sims wasn't a mage, then it means they can't automatically tell when a person is actually a mage or not.

An obviously lower-ranked templar identifies Morrigan as strange, which gives the impression that he sensed her magic. With all the lyrium they have to ingest, it would make sense that they gain some semi-magical capabilities. Mages being able to sense powerful magic, perhaps Templars can too due to their lyrium sodas.
My hypothesis has to do with the thin veil: The veil being exceptionally thin or nonexistent in Kirkwall, perhaps the constant looming of demonic presence becomes the natural feelign for templars there and thus inhibits or makes it far more difficult for them to sense magic. Plus Meredith going nuts doesn't help them trust their instincts that mages are loose everywhere

[Foolsfolly]

Ever hear of the term implied skill? It's like in Mass Effect 2 where everything about the plot tells you Jack is the most powerful human biotic in the universe but gameplay undermines this at each and every turn because Jack is largely useless in combat, especially on the higher difficulties.

Well the Templars have an implied job. We're told they police and hold mages but at every turn the gameplay and even plot discredits this.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Ever hear of the term implied skill? It's like in Mass Effect 2 where everything about the plot tells you Jack is the most powerful human biotic in the universe but gameplay undermines this at each and every turn because Jack is largely useless in combat, especially on the higher difficulties.

Well the Templars have an implied job. We're told they police and hold mages but at every turn the gameplay and even plot discredits this.

I think the Templars looking so badass (Jack looks like a cultist with a lot of issues) and being so feared makes their incompetence more glaring.

Kind of like:
Obi Wan: "Only stormtroopers are so precise."
Except they can't freakin kill a teenage farmboy and a senator who probably  never used a blaster.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 mai 2011 - 04:55 .

[Xilizhra]

When he's a refugee barely 15 minutes off the docks? Really? Remember it took three DAYS for Gamlen to pick them up after Hawke openly displayed battlemagic in front of the Maker and Everyone in the middle of Templar HQ.

Actually, I don't know if this happened canonically. I haven't tried it myself because it would be very boring to play, but given your guard reinforcements, I'd say it's entirely possible for Hawke to have just hit the deserters with her staff and still win.

Kind of like:
Obi Wan: "Only stormtroopers are so precise."
Except they can't freakin kill a teenage farmboy and a diplomat who probably never used a blaster.

But they can clear out a Rebel starship within minutes. The farmboy and diplomat just have plot armor (also, I don't think the stormtroopers were generally shooting to kill; on both the Death Star and Cloud City, Vader wanted the Millennium Falcon to escape so that he could track it to the rebel base/capture it with the Executor).

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kind of like:
Obi Wan: "Only stormtroopers are so precise."
Except they can't freakin kill a teenage farmboy and a diplomat who probably never used a blaster.

But they can clear out a Rebel starship within minutes. The farmboy and diplomat just have plot armor (also, I don't think the stormtroopers were generally shooting to kill; on both the Death Star and Cloud City, Vader wanted the Millennium Falcon to escape so that he could track it to the rebel base/capture it with the Executor).

Stormtroopers were as incompetent in Empire and Jedi (especially then).

Templars clear the gallows in minutes too. Though not sure if it's due more to Templar competence, or mage stupidity.

[Xilizhra]

Empire, I mentioned with Cloud City. In Jedi... well, yes, that group of stormtroopers did drop the ball. However, that sort of thing happens even in real life.

[TEWR]

sheer dumb luck

[Foolsfolly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kind of like:
Obi Wan: "Only stormtroopers are so precise."
Except they can't freakin kill a teenage farmboy and a diplomat who probably never used a blaster.

But they can clear out a Rebel starship within minutes. The farmboy and diplomat just have plot armor (also, I don't think the stormtroopers were generally shooting to kill; on both the Death Star and Cloud City, Vader wanted the Millennium Falcon to escape so that he could track it to the rebel base/capture it with the Executor).

Stormtroopers were as incompetent in Empire and Jedi (especially then).

Templars clear the gallows in minutes too. Though not sure if it's due more to Templar competence, or mage stupidity.

If someone told the mages that the Templars were coming to Annul the Circle the mages would freak out, resort to blood magic, summon demons and ultimately suffer the exact same amount of casualities as if the Templars invaded.

Likewise, if someone told the Templars that the mages had all gone Abomination the Templars would freak out, run around shouting that other Templars are possessed, kill each other, fall on their swords in their terror, and ultimately suffer the exact same amount of casualities as if the Mages attacked.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

Empire, I mentioned with Cloud City. In Jedi... well, yes, that group of stormtroopers did drop the ball. However, that sort of thing happens even in real life.

Wouldn't it it have been considerably smarter to kill Lea, Chewbacca and the rest, prevent them from getting in the Millenium falcon, and thus prevent them from saving Luke in the first place? Who would either be "rescued" by Vader, or dies.

Unless Vader grew soft, but how could he have possibly known this would have all happened? They escape while he's dueling Luke. So I highly doubt he gave them specific orders to keep missing.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 mai 2011 - 05:07 .

[Sajuro]

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They are allowed to kill apostates. He pretended to be an apostate, while he was scamming the sick. If he put on a convincing act, the Templars have full authority to kill him. If they saw through it, they could kill him for being a scammer. While not allowed, I doubt a lot of people would complain.

If the templars can't discern that D'Sims wasn't a mage, then it means they can't automatically tell when a person is actually a mage or not.

An obviously lower-ranked templar identifies Morrigan as strange, which gives the impression that he sensed her magic. With all the lyrium they have to ingest, it would make sense that they gain some semi-magical capabilities. Mages being able to sense powerful magic, perhaps Templars can too due to their lyrium sodas.
My hypothesis has to do with the thin veil: The veil being exceptionally thin or nonexistent in Kirkwall, perhaps the constant looming of demonic presence becomes the natural feelign for templars there and thus inhibits or makes it far more difficult for them to sense magic. Plus Meredith going nuts doesn't help them trust their instincts that mages are loose everywhere

Morrigan who wears a cloth loop for a shirt, advocates kicking every puppy you see, and wears an ungodly shade of eye shadow. I love her, but you don't have to be able to sense magic to know she's strange.

Modifié par Sajuro, 19 mai 2011 - 05:09 .

[Xilizhra]

Unless Vader grew soft, but how could he have possibly known this would have all happened? They escape while he's dueling Luke. So I highly doubt he gave them specific orders to keep missing.

That's pretty much it. He really didn't want Luke dead, and he also wanted his friends alive. We know he screwed with the Falcon's hyperdrive, after all, so he had some idea that they might escape. There's also the possibility of the Force telling him to do so.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...

Unless Vader grew soft, but how could he have possibly known this would have all happened? They escape while he's dueling Luke. So I highly doubt he gave them specific orders to keep missing.

That's pretty much it. He really didn't want Luke dead, and he also wanted his friends alive. We know he screwed with the Falcon's hyperdrive, after all, so he had some idea that they might escape. There's also the possibility of the Force telling him to do so.

Then why didn't he instruct them to shoot R2 D2, an obvious astromech droid designed to repair stuff? And one that can't doge or roll, moves very slowly and is a sitting duck?

So either Vader is a complete moron (which I wouldn't be surprised considering the prequels). Or the stormtroopers are ****.

And even if Vader didn't tell them, if the stormtroopers knew about the plan they should have shot R2.

But anyways, way too OT. Point was, Templars look too badass to be that incomeptent. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 mai 2011 - 05:19 .

[Foolsfolly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Empire, I mentioned with Cloud City. In Jedi... well, yes, that group of stormtroopers did drop the ball. However, that sort of thing happens even in real life.

Wouldn't it it have been considerably smarter to kill Lea, Chewbacca and the rest, prevent them from getting in the Millenium falcon, and thus prevent them from saving Luke in the first place? Who would either be "rescued" by Vader, or dies.

Unless Vader grew soft, but how could he have possibly known this would have all happened? They escape while he's dueling Luke. So I highly doubt he gave them specific orders to keep missing.

The point of capturing them was to torture them to force Luke's appearance before he was properly trained. Well, they may not have known about the training, but it was to lure Luke to Cloud City as a trap.

So just killing them wasn't enough.

However, your point can still remainsince they should have just killed the lot of them as Luke approached. He was already coming there and killing them would have had a great affect on his mind. He'd lash out and maybe fall to the Dark Side.

I R Star Warz Geek.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Was talking about them escaping while he's dueling with Luke.

[Foolsfolly]

Oh, yeah. That's Stormtrooper accuracy vs Plot Armor.

[Sajuro]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Oh, yeah. That's Stormtrooper accuracy vs Plot Armor.

I thought that canon said somewhere their accuracy was poor because of how cheaply made the blaster rifles they used were, having a low effective range. They were able to clear the ship because the narrow hallways meant they would probably hit something no matter where the blast landed and it was at close range.

[SilentK]

ArawnNox wrote...

The whole point of the expedition was to get enough money to hide behind. It seems to me that the Templars are corrupt enough that they can be bribed to look the other way. Then you get enough status to cause a political problem if you were to be taken away by the Templars.

My justification: Gascard DuPuis. This bothered me, that, even though the Templars found nothing, he's still obviously a mage (unless he was always an apostate), but evidently had enough noble clout that Merridith had to write a personal apology to him.

My theory, anyway.
Honestly, the Templars are pretty bloody incompetent without a Mage Hawke running around the city.

I see my Hawke running around with a big bundle of notes, just in case. Like Bethany said it, you need money, status or connections to hide. Kirkwall is one corrupt little city. With rasicm. Nothing like home     =)     I would have liked a scene when you actually had to bribe your way free from a templar or something like that in game. Would have made me happy.

[Trefalen]

Templars know who is in charge

SilentK wrote...
I see my Hawke running around with a big bundle of notes, just in case. Like Bethany said it, you need money, status or connections to hide. Kirkwall is one corrupt little city. With rasicm. Nothing like home =) I would have liked a scene when you actually had to bribe your way free from a templar or something like that in game. Would have made me happy.

Likewise I would have liked an exchange and even a short battle between Anders and Flemeth at the Altar.  Even Flemeth can't spot a mage..

Flemeth: "I? I am a very old old woman..."
Anders: (Justice takes over) "You are but a child compared to me Witch!"

Modifié par Trefalen, 19 mai 2011 - 06:45 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Perhaps Flemeth is older than even the spirits. Who knows? Flemeth certainly knows Anders is an abomination.

[Shamajotsi]

Trefalen wrote...
to be fair to EA/BW, to have a truly realistic portrayal would have taken another year or so in development etc..

I doubt that it was a matter of putting or not another year in developement. DA:O took several years to be done, and still, you coud light a templar on fire (or at least cast a cone of fire that passes through him) and he would not do anything.