87 réponses à ce sujet

[xkg]

Maybe more official definition will help

Computer Hacking Law & Legal Definition
http://definitions.u...mputer-hacking/

[Godak]

[quote]Celrath wrote...

 I don't think so because isn't being hack a result of bad security. [/quote]

Not necessarily. White hats usually tell companies to operate under the belief that nothing can ever be completely secure (probably because it is true). It could be from lax security...it could be from determined crackers.


[quote]Celrath wrote...

No matter if they where hack or not they had bad security in the first place. [/quote]

I will not deny that, but their new systems are supposed to be top of the line, super secure, etc, etc...I'm simply suggesting that, if Sony were cracked, they could say, "Hey! We aren't the bad guys here! We are the victims!" Instead, the have said that it was an exploit due to an oversight on their part. Which one paints the better picture?

[quote]Celrath wrote...

Blaming it on the hackers doesn't make it anymore secure. [/quote]

Agreed.

[quote]Celrath wrote...

And the fact that it too a Hacker attack for them to admit the Flaw in there security is even worse. No just to customers but to investor who where lied to buy the company.[/quote]

I do not know what Sony told their investors. I cannot comment on potential lies, etc.

[quote]Celrath wrote...

As for what is and isn't a hack, you are just play with semantics now. In its simplest form hacking is gaining unauthorised access to something using unscrupulous means. Meaning Hacking is a type of fraud. each time you try and argue about it, your argument becomes thinner and thinner. [/quote]

I think you seriously misunderstand the term "hack". Hacking is not necessarily malicious, thus it cannot ALWAYS be a type of fraud (a crime). Hackers can utilize fraud (sending an email with fake company logos, and when you click on the logo there is a malicious program). The malicious program would be the hacking - the cyber crime- while the fake company logo would be fraud.

[quote]Celrath wrote...

lets go through your arguments shale we. [/quote]

Yes, let's.

[quote]Celrath wrote...

[*] Hacking Requires a forceful attack
Hack- To gain access to something illegally or without authorization:[/quote] You have cited a free online dictionary. I have cited an actual computer programmer/technical writer. [quote]Celrath wrote...
[*] Obtaining information form a previous hack means its not a hack
I mean come on that is just silly[/quote] I do not believe that was my argument. My argument was something along the lines of, "There was information gained from a previous hack that gave hackers peoples' personal information. However, this is not necessarily a hack." [quote]Celrath wrote...
[*] Its not hacking its fraud
Hacking is a type of fraud[/quote] That is simply not true. Hacking != fraud.
[quote]Celrath wrote...
[*] But Sony said
Sony also said no Credit card information was stolen.[/quote] If I'm not mistaken, did they not suggest that users begin changing passwords, usernames, and credit cards? I cannot say if they lied about credit card information in those first few days. They may have truly been oblivious, or they could have been lying out of their butt.

EDIT: [quote]xkg wrote...


Maybe more official definition will help

Computer Hacking Law & Legal Definition
http://definitions.u...mputer-hacking/[/quote]

The
Computer Fraud and Abuse Act is not solely about
hackers/hacking/crackers/cracking. It is supposed to be a general list
of illegal computer activities. Hacking in and of itself is not an illegal activity.

Modifié par Godak, 19 mai 2011 - 09:13 .

[xkg]

@Godak
Ok, ok. Whatever you say. No offence but you wont convice me. Ill rather believe in official (legal) definition. So in my eyes it was a hack.

[Godak]

Celrath wrote...

Look at the link just posted above you Godak.

I did. They labeled the page of the law incorrectly, under the assumption that it dealt soley with hackers/hacking/crackers/cracking. It does not. There are many sections for different crimes. That site posted a summary of what the law dealt with, and not everything pertains to hacking.

Indeed, what they paint as 'hacking' is actually in the fraud section of the law.

"(4)
knowingly and with intent to defraud, accesses a
protected computer without authorization, or exceeds authorized access,
and by means of such conduct furthers the intended fraud and obtains
anything of value, unless the object of the fraud and the thing obtained
consists only of the use of the computer and the value of such use is
not more than $5,000 in any 1-year period;"

Hacking comes after.

"(5) (A)
knowingly causes the transmission of a program,
information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct,
intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected
computer;

(
intentionally accesses a protected computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, recklessly causes damage; or

©
intentionally accesses a protected computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, causes damage and loss."

From Cornell Law School.

Celrath wrote...

See some fraud is hacking and some Hacking is fraud but not all are both.

I agree with this...

Celrath wrote...

in the case we were talking about it was both a hack and fraud.

Not this.

EDIT:

xkg wrote...

@Godak
Ok, ok. Whatever you say. No
offence but you wont convice me. Ill rather believe in official (legal)
definition. So in my eyes it was a hack.

As you should. But that website took the law completely out of context, assuming that it ONLY dealt with hacking. Which is simply not the case.

Modifié par Godak, 19 mai 2011 - 09:28 .

[Godak]

Celrath wrote...

So everything said in it is worng because of a clerical error. Now who sounds like a lawyer?  

It is wrong because they make it seem like everything enclosed deals with hacking and hackers. Which is not true.

If it were saying "cyber criminals," I would absolutely agree. It would be spot on. But it doesn't. For the record, the US has VERY lax cyber crime laws. The definition of a "protected computer"? Pretty much only computers that affect official US entities, or US financial organizations. I guess they thought that they would be able to get most hackers on fradulent activity, but I still see room for loop holes, etc.

Now that I've derailed this thread far more than I should have (I apologize), would you be willing to talk about this more in PM?

[naughty99]

wow, that is some impressive debate! u guys mad?

it's like walking onto the set of CSI: Hacking Lawyers Unit

[v_ware]

Ringo12 wrote...

J0HNL3I wrote...

WIN FOR XBOX!!!!!!

pfft you still have to pay. Win for PC. I Steam.

BAM!

[naughty99]

It seems that Sony has been hacked yet again

I can't tell if this is the second or third time, but either way it doesn't bode well for future sales

[Rockworm503]

Jeez its starting to look like someone is out to screw over Sony like a competitor *cough* not pointing fingers MICROSOFT but *cough* damn.

[C9316]

Damn, my brother has a PSN account, I'm glad I'm not him right now...

[Nerdage]

Eh. I was hoping to download Dead Money for FNV sometime soon, now I'm afraid to turn my PS3 on unless it jumps up and strangles me or something...

[Rockworm503]

lionalio87 wrote...

Puff, my oh my, I'm going to get the PS3 console but i'm still wondering which console is better, PS3 or XBOX 360, now I have only 1 candidate: XBOX. Never heard XBOX has anything like this before. Screw you, PS3, better luck next time!!!

People seem to forget that Xbox Live goes down twice as much as this but its ok because "we pay to play so their protecting us more"  LOL if all it takes is a few hack jobs (not sure what this last thing is) to get you away then you shouldn't have bothered to get one in the first place.  Something tells me you would've sold your PS3 3 months after you bought it because "the 2 games I got it for wasn't enough"
I can count maybe 1 game on the Xbox that interests me and even if it was twice as much as my 20+ games that are on the PS3 I'd still be hesitant.  Microsoft has a nack for screwing over costumers (just look at Windows live and well Windows in general) I just don't trust them enough to buy their console.

Modifié par Rockworm503, 23 mai 2011 - 10:24 .

[HiddenKING]

Rockworm503 wrote...

lionalio87 wrote...

Puff, my oh my, I'm going to get the PS3 console but i'm still wondering which console is better, PS3 or XBOX 360, now I have only 1 candidate: XBOX. Never heard XBOX has anything like this before. Screw you, PS3, better luck next time!!!

People seem to forget that Xbox Live goes down twice as much as this but its ok because "we pay to play so their protecting us more"  LOL if all it takes is a few hack jobs (not sure what this last thing is) to get you away then you shouldn't have bothered to get one in the first place.  Something tells me you would've sold your PS3 3 months after you bought it because "the 2 games I got it for wasn't enough"
I can count maybe 1 game on the Xbox that interests me and even if it was twice as much as my 20+ games that are on the PS3 I'd still be hesitant.  Microsoft has a nack for screwing over costumers (just look at Windows live and well Windows in general) I just don't trust them enough to buy their console.

XBL has gone down Once in 2007.

[CroGamer002]

All I want to know is what douchebags hacked PSN in first place.

[naughty99]

 Sony has revised previous earnings estimates to forecast a $3.18 billion loss for fiscal year 2011

[UBER GEEKZILLA]

YEAH PROOF THAT XBOX IS KING AND SONY CAN SUCK IT

[naughty99]

 This is getting RIDICULOUS

Is this the 4th time they were hacked now?

Modifié par naughty99, 24 mai 2011 - 09:46 .

[Rockworm503]

and yet PSN is still up

[Chromie]

UBER GEEKZILLA wrote...

YEAH PROOF THAT XBOX IS KING AND SONY CAN SUCK IT

Steam > Live. Just saying. I get more then Live users do and it's free including Cloud Saving ingame screenshots (unfortunately not every game supports screenshots ME2 doesn't)  daily deals. I bought all 5 Prince of Persia games today for $15. I really enjoyed the 3 that launched last gen and wanted to try the latest one. Good deal.