Hello everyone,
Since I can't find any similar thread in DA2 forum, I
just want to ask you a naive question: Now i'm going to build a warrior, what do you think I should build
a warrior Hawke? Weapon+shield or Two-handed? Which advantage can I have from weapon + shield or two handed weapon, and also provide me some cons, as you wish, i'll be very appreciate it.
I tried hard to find anything in Dragonage.wikia.com, but it seems to lack informations.
Cheers.
Warrior: Two-handed or shield
Débuté par
lionalio87
, mai 19 2011 09:42
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#2
Posté 19 mai 2011 - 10:07
mr_afk
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hmm, let's see if i can do a quick summary:
The only real difference is between the weapon trees 2H and Weapons & Shield and the weapons that are equipped:
- 2H focuses on having large area effect damage and has CCCs off brittle targets
- Weapon & Shield focuses on a mixture of defensive and CCCs off disoriented targets
- 2H weapons have a higher base damage but slower attack speed so overall dps-wise it's pretty similar and it's mostly the weapons available that makes the difference - there are a lot more elemental S&S weapons early game but late game quite a few very good elemental 2H weapons become available. (elemental weapons allow for much more damage due to enemy vulnerabilities and ignore armour properties)
- The shield also adds to the armour score of the S&S build, meaning that it will probably end up more sturdy
- Due to the size differences between their damage arcs a 2H weapon will allow a greater number of enemies to be hit at once and thus a larger amount of damage and staggers to be dealt when dealing with group situations.
- This may be seen as both a pro and con as on nightmare this increased size will mean you are more likely to ff your companions.
Overall, it doesn't make that much of a difference and you will see plenty of successful builds of both types.
Personally, with the new dlc (edge of night) I found an elemental S&S to be the easiest and most powerful of all the playthroughs I've done so far (and I've done quite a few).
By using desmonda's (nature) and edge of night (spirit) there are almost no enemies that are immune to you and plenty that have elemental weaknesses.
Later on, paired with a fatiguing fog, a S&S build will be able to decimate entire groups really fast.
Additionally a S&S build will be able to have great synergy with a walking bomb setup, which is probably the highest damaging and fastest way to kill enemies.
The advantage of a 2H build will probably be in that once you get skilled at microing it, you will be able to rush around killing groups of enemies simply by autoattacks. A S&S build will have more trouble in that regards as its autoattacks will only be able to hit groups if they are really clustered. So I suppose the choice will partially depend on whether you like having a greater emphasis on abilities or autoattacking.
I'm obviously biased towards a S&S build as I'm playing one right now (though I did enjoy the 2H build - my first nightmare playthrough).
Here are two compilations of my current S&S build:
Haha so much for 'quick'.. Anyway, I would link some 2H videos but you might as well just check out the videos in this thread or this one for demonstration videos/explanation of their builds.
Most S&S builds will be loosely based on an approach similar to this.
hope this helps
The only real difference is between the weapon trees 2H and Weapons & Shield and the weapons that are equipped:
- 2H focuses on having large area effect damage and has CCCs off brittle targets
- Weapon & Shield focuses on a mixture of defensive and CCCs off disoriented targets
- 2H weapons have a higher base damage but slower attack speed so overall dps-wise it's pretty similar and it's mostly the weapons available that makes the difference - there are a lot more elemental S&S weapons early game but late game quite a few very good elemental 2H weapons become available. (elemental weapons allow for much more damage due to enemy vulnerabilities and ignore armour properties)
- The shield also adds to the armour score of the S&S build, meaning that it will probably end up more sturdy
- Due to the size differences between their damage arcs a 2H weapon will allow a greater number of enemies to be hit at once and thus a larger amount of damage and staggers to be dealt when dealing with group situations.
- This may be seen as both a pro and con as on nightmare this increased size will mean you are more likely to ff your companions.
Overall, it doesn't make that much of a difference and you will see plenty of successful builds of both types.
Personally, with the new dlc (edge of night) I found an elemental S&S to be the easiest and most powerful of all the playthroughs I've done so far (and I've done quite a few).
By using desmonda's (nature) and edge of night (spirit) there are almost no enemies that are immune to you and plenty that have elemental weaknesses.
Later on, paired with a fatiguing fog, a S&S build will be able to decimate entire groups really fast.
Additionally a S&S build will be able to have great synergy with a walking bomb setup, which is probably the highest damaging and fastest way to kill enemies.
The advantage of a 2H build will probably be in that once you get skilled at microing it, you will be able to rush around killing groups of enemies simply by autoattacks. A S&S build will have more trouble in that regards as its autoattacks will only be able to hit groups if they are really clustered. So I suppose the choice will partially depend on whether you like having a greater emphasis on abilities or autoattacking.
I'm obviously biased towards a S&S build as I'm playing one right now (though I did enjoy the 2H build - my first nightmare playthrough).
Here are two compilations of my current S&S build:
Haha so much for 'quick'.. Anyway, I would link some 2H videos but you might as well just check out the videos in this thread or this one for demonstration videos/explanation of their builds.
Most S&S builds will be loosely based on an approach similar to this.
hope this helps
Modifié par mr_afk, 19 mai 2011 - 10:16 .
#3
Posté 19 mai 2011 - 11:14
lionalio87
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Thank you, that could help me much in the warrior building. I just wonder something about the class: Which class is the most appropriate for the two-handed or the weapon and shield? Assume that we can learn 2 specializations, so which specialization is for which build? (I want to discuss later about the tree talent)
#4
Posté 19 mai 2011 - 11:41
mr_afk
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Ummm given that all the warrior specs are designed for warriors and not the weapon style subsets I would say that it would be the same for both..?
Whatever the case, in almost any and every choice it largely depends on what you want your build to do. DA2's combat mechanics are great in the way that everything is really balanced such that there are few talents that are seen to be as 'necessary'. Of course some are better than others (e.g. cleave, assassinate etc) but in general, especially in terms of specialisations, they are mostly balanced (the only combo generally deemed to be ineffective been a duelist/shadow as the assassin tree is so powerful).
Given that we are discussing warriors, this means that you can easily do any combination of specs depending on what you want to do. If you look at the talent descriptions for each tree you can get a rough feel for things, but I suppose If you want a quick run down of reavers/berserkers you can check out my post here.
I really don't know that much about templar, but i think it can be decent if used right.
Whatever the case, in almost any and every choice it largely depends on what you want your build to do. DA2's combat mechanics are great in the way that everything is really balanced such that there are few talents that are seen to be as 'necessary'. Of course some are better than others (e.g. cleave, assassinate etc) but in general, especially in terms of specialisations, they are mostly balanced (the only combo generally deemed to be ineffective been a duelist/shadow as the assassin tree is so powerful).
Given that we are discussing warriors, this means that you can easily do any combination of specs depending on what you want to do. If you look at the talent descriptions for each tree you can get a rough feel for things, but I suppose If you want a quick run down of reavers/berserkers you can check out my post here.
I really don't know that much about templar, but i think it can be decent if used right.
Modifié par mr_afk, 19 mai 2011 - 11:42 .
#5
Posté 19 mai 2011 - 07:34
atheelogos
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#6
Posté 19 mai 2011 - 08:38
lionalio87
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Ok I may give it a try. Seems that there are many things to do with the S&S than the 2H. Actually after watching what Fenris has done to my party in any combat he presents, I don't think 2H is a good idea unless I want to solo from the beginning to the end of the game.
Modifié par lionalio87, 19 mai 2011 - 08:39 .
#7
Posté 19 mai 2011 - 11:12
Lucav5
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I really enjoyed my 2h warrior playthroughs, the friendly fire issue is minimized with good micro and they can be quite beastly in dishing and absorbing damage.
#8
Posté 20 mai 2011 - 11:12
lionalio87
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can you play 2H warrior without hitting friends in the combat when your group has 2 melee attacker?
It is simple in the group has 3 range attack and just 1 melee (2H warrior), but the 2H is very annoying if he or she stands near allies, they are always hit. I still don't know how to reduce the casualties unless I use 3 range, 1 melee.
It is simple in the group has 3 range attack and just 1 melee (2H warrior), but the 2H is very annoying if he or she stands near allies, they are always hit. I still don't know how to reduce the casualties unless I use 3 range, 1 melee.
#9
Posté 20 mai 2011 - 11:15
AreleX
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lionalio87 wrote...
can you play 2H warrior without hitting friends in the combat when your group has 2 melee attacker?
It is simple in the group has 3 range attack and just 1 melee (2H warrior), but the 2H is very annoying if he or she stands near allies, they are always hit. I still don't know how to reduce the casualties unless I use 3 range, 1 melee.
Even with the 3 range, 1 melee party, you still need to exercise good control of your rudder. Companions (especially Varric and Anders) are incredibly stupid, and will do everything in their power to thwart your attempts to be awesome.
Your party selection is very limited as a Warrior on Nightmare, but the team you DO have available is very powerful.
#10
Posté 20 mai 2011 - 12:07
lionalio87
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I totally agree. The companions are very stupid, they usually move around the battlefield RIGHT into the center of the battle, even when I ordered them to attack in range. I don't blame them since they are just the machine ) . I can assure you that I can handle the control of the range attacker and prevent the melee attacker from hitting their allies. If there is no chance to reduce the casualties caused by the 2H, I should follow the "traditional party's formula" 3 range 1 melee anyway!!!
) . I can assure you that I can handle the control of the range attacker and prevent the melee attacker from hitting their allies. If there is no chance to reduce the casualties caused by the 2H, I should follow the "traditional party's formula" 3 range 1 melee anyway!!!
#11
Posté 20 mai 2011 - 05:26
mr_afk
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One possibility to use if you really want to use two melee attacks is to use elemental weapons and to get your companions to be immune to that element.
There's not a lot of opportunity for elemental 2H weapons until later game besides the anderfel cleaver in act 1.
But using that as an example, if you wanted to get aveline alongside your warrior you could simply put runes of fire warding into her shield and/or have her get elemental aegis. This would make her immune or highly resistant to your attacks such that ff from your side would not be an issue
(if she hates you and you're not immune to her weapon's element she could still easily scatter/assault you despite the smaller damage arc).
Note that the rest of your party will probably face ff issues at least until the 2nd act due to the unavailability of abilities or rune slots to increase elemental resistance.
When you hit the third act you should be able to have a good selection of 2H weapons, making such an elemental resistance work-around much more viable (though you'll be hard pressed to get companions other than aveline and fenris immune to multiple elements).
In act 2, if you went S&S you could easily just get your second melee character immune to spirit.
I was actually considering such a party setup.. but will probably opt for the 1melee 3ranged setup instead..
A bit tangental, but if you were interested in my idea;
The concept was to have a second melee character able to wade around in walking bombs/setting off walking bombs (e.g. an Isabela which twinfangs/spike damages the walking bomb to death) without any concerns about hawke's spirit damage scatters and assaults. As rogues only do single target dps friendly fire from her side wouldn't be an issue.
The reason why it fails as such is that she would have to be the designated lockpicker and disorient-er = less damage talents and high cunning = lower spike damge and dps = Not very good at triggering elite walking bombs = redundant.
Additionally hawke's spike damage will be even greater due to disorient CCCs which further renders the argument for such a party setup pointless.
So yeah, it's not the most practical, but this method of avoiding melee ff might be useful if you can think up a way to fit it into your setup... maybe if you were struggling survival-wise as a glass-cannon elemental robed 2H warrior you could recruit Aveline to help out with disorient CCCs and tanking/threat management. Just a thought
Edit: Actually, if there were any hard Kirkwall fights in act 3 this could be a fun way to speed run it. You could get a 2H hawke and an aveline with that fire sword (from the arishok) and dance around chopping anything and everything while your mages drop firestorms on everbody. Only problem is there might not be any decent act 3 2H fire weapons.. I only know of spirit, ice and electricity ones...oh well
There's not a lot of opportunity for elemental 2H weapons until later game besides the anderfel cleaver in act 1.
But using that as an example, if you wanted to get aveline alongside your warrior you could simply put runes of fire warding into her shield and/or have her get elemental aegis. This would make her immune or highly resistant to your attacks such that ff from your side would not be an issue
(if she hates you and you're not immune to her weapon's element she could still easily scatter/assault you despite the smaller damage arc).
Note that the rest of your party will probably face ff issues at least until the 2nd act due to the unavailability of abilities or rune slots to increase elemental resistance.
When you hit the third act you should be able to have a good selection of 2H weapons, making such an elemental resistance work-around much more viable (though you'll be hard pressed to get companions other than aveline and fenris immune to multiple elements).
In act 2, if you went S&S you could easily just get your second melee character immune to spirit.
I was actually considering such a party setup.. but will probably opt for the 1melee 3ranged setup instead..
A bit tangental, but if you were interested in my idea;
The concept was to have a second melee character able to wade around in walking bombs/setting off walking bombs (e.g. an Isabela which twinfangs/spike damages the walking bomb to death) without any concerns about hawke's spirit damage scatters and assaults. As rogues only do single target dps friendly fire from her side wouldn't be an issue.
The reason why it fails as such is that she would have to be the designated lockpicker and disorient-er = less damage talents and high cunning = lower spike damge and dps = Not very good at triggering elite walking bombs = redundant.
Additionally hawke's spike damage will be even greater due to disorient CCCs which further renders the argument for such a party setup pointless.
So yeah, it's not the most practical, but this method of avoiding melee ff might be useful if you can think up a way to fit it into your setup... maybe if you were struggling survival-wise as a glass-cannon elemental robed 2H warrior you could recruit Aveline to help out with disorient CCCs and tanking/threat management. Just a thought
Edit: Actually, if there were any hard Kirkwall fights in act 3 this could be a fun way to speed run it. You could get a 2H hawke and an aveline with that fire sword (from the arishok) and dance around chopping anything and everything while your mages drop firestorms on everbody. Only problem is there might not be any decent act 3 2H fire weapons.. I only know of spirit, ice and electricity ones...oh well
Modifié par mr_afk, 20 mai 2011 - 05:32 .
#12
Posté 21 mai 2011 - 12:40
Guilebrush
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mr_afk wrote...
The reason why it fails as such is that she would have to be the designated lockpicker and disorient-er = less damage talents and high cunning = lower spike damge and dps = Not very good at triggering elite walking bombs = redundant.
It's factoids like this that make me real sad about the state Isabela finds herself in DA2. In fact, even if you neglect her cunning and focus entirely on Dex to maximize DPS her spike damage potential is still terrible, I'm willing to bet she has the lowest spike damage of any companion outside of Dog... Her big CCC payoff is totally unreliable in the hands of the AI and her personal tree adds nothing to burst potential, poor thing. Hopefully they give her abilities a look during the patching process since they have said some powers may be rebalanced (fireball was mentioned I believe).
Honestly in the scenario you pointed out both Fenris and Aveline would probably fulfill the role better (minus the lockpicking/trap disarming stuff) as a Warrior Hawke you could just equip them with elemental weaponry as well and just run around with a pair of immune melee people blowing stuff up left and right.
#13
Posté 21 mai 2011 - 03:49
mr_afk
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Oh.. she's alright with close to pure dex.
Here's her doing the gauntlet:
She doen't actually need spike damage or CCC when she kills most things in a few hits. Haha but yeah, without anyone microing her she usually is pretty terrible.
THe only problem with the elemental weaponry workaround is that there actually aren't that many elemental weapons in the game. I don't believe there are any random/generic elemental weapons which limits it to the few unique items available from drops or shops. But yes, the advantage of fire and spirit immunity is that it would be dual purpose - allowing you to avoid any ff issues from fireballs, firestorms, bursting arrows, and walking bombs.
But generally speaking, one melee three ranged or all-ranged will probably be the best party speed/damage-wise as having to run from enemy to enemy (especially under tactics) really slows things down.
Here's her doing the gauntlet:
She doen't actually need spike damage or CCC when she kills most things in a few hits. Haha but yeah, without anyone microing her she usually is pretty terrible.
THe only problem with the elemental weaponry workaround is that there actually aren't that many elemental weapons in the game. I don't believe there are any random/generic elemental weapons which limits it to the few unique items available from drops or shops. But yes, the advantage of fire and spirit immunity is that it would be dual purpose - allowing you to avoid any ff issues from fireballs, firestorms, bursting arrows, and walking bombs.
But generally speaking, one melee three ranged or all-ranged will probably be the best party speed/damage-wise as having to run from enemy to enemy (especially under tactics) really slows things down.
#14
Posté 21 mai 2011 - 03:30
lionalio87
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Yeah, it might be very useful to prevent the friendly fire when we get someone immune to some elemental damage and the others equip weapon with that kind of damage. I'll take a try sometimes. But I still have a question: your trick can work well with the 2H warrior, but what about the S&S? When I use Scatter, it ALWAYS hit the allies. Does anyone have any idea to prevent this? I'll apply your trick to my 2H warrior or rogue, but it seems that i get some work to do with S&S
#15
Posté 21 mai 2011 - 04:36
mr_afk
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Umm. which weapons are you using for your S&S? And which melee companions are you thinking of using?
Basically from act 1 to act 2 you'll only have access to two elemental swords - the edge of night and desdemona's blade. Using these weapons you can get through all of act 1 and maybe 2 without having to switch to physical weapons (I'm only up to act 2 atm). This means that as long as you get your melee companions immune/resistant to spirit and nature you won't have ff issues from scatter.
This is very possible with aveline and fenris but a lot harder with isabela.
For your warriors, on top of increasing damage resistance you will want to consider getting elemental aegis: +40% elemental resistance and maybe consider upgrading it so it's +60% elemental resistance.
This means your scatters will be only doing around half the damage to your companions...but if your build is like mine, that'll still kill them easily.
So what you do is dump runes into their armour and/or shields. The issue with S&S is that you can only get access to runes of spirit/nature warding in act 2 = ff issues throughout act 1.
The other issue is that as you will have to be switching elemental weapons (to avoid immunities) you will have to get immune to two elements. While the bonus from elemental aegis covers everything, the bonus from runes is specific.
I'm not too sure how much elemental resistance runes in shields/armour give but for act 2 you will have 2-3 shield rune slots and 1 armour rune slot for Aveline and 2 armour rune slots for fenris.
This means that you may have to prioritise and get immune to only one element (I would recommend spirit).
Anyhow, from then on you should be facing less ff issues.
I'm not sure if it's affecting you, but ff works both ways meaning that Aveline/Fenris can easily ff you. As you are taking up all the elemental swords and fenris won't be able to solely use elemental 2H weapons, your hawke will face ff issues whenever they pull a scatter/scythe.
Unless this is desirable thing (e.g. if you have enough dmg resistance/con not to die and are a reaver which can use that to unleash extra damage).
There is another possible solution by using rally. Rally allows you to convey your elemental aegis to your allies and when upgraded will allow you to give them a temporary +60% to their elemental resistance. This means that it is quite easy to grant your warrior companions a temporary immunity to elemental damage (if the elemental aegis bonus stacks) and will help a lot in the case of isabela, which I will get to in a second. Hawke doesn't have to be the one to do the rally, and if you (for god knows why) wanted to do a 3melee party, your warrior companions could help protect each other/a rogue.
So basically, using rally paired with elemental aegis should allow you to scatter your companions with elemental weapons without as many ff issues (though this bonus is temporary and will not help with the general ff issues from autoattacks etc).
Isabela will be a lot harder to handle. She only will have one runeslot (for act 2) and no abilities to increase elemental resistance. Additionally, as a rogue she is naturally more glassy. Umm.. a possible solution in addition to the rally trick is maybe getting two mages to have fully upgraded arcane shields which would give her an additional 10% elemental resistance (as well as 20% to both your mages which may help friendly fire issues a little bit when trying to haul their asses out of trouble - may help with avoiding the drama of killing the companion you're trying to save)
As is said before, i'm not too sure how much resistance a rune slot will convey (and it will decrease as you level) so i'm not sure whether it's possible to get her immune.
Well good luck with figuring it out, I look forward to hearing if any of these methods (runeslots, elemental aegis, rally, arcane shield) works for you as this is only theory (haven't tested it out yet).
I'm starting to lose my high from the concert I just came back from so I think i'll stop spieling now haha
Basically from act 1 to act 2 you'll only have access to two elemental swords - the edge of night and desdemona's blade. Using these weapons you can get through all of act 1 and maybe 2 without having to switch to physical weapons (I'm only up to act 2 atm). This means that as long as you get your melee companions immune/resistant to spirit and nature you won't have ff issues from scatter.
This is very possible with aveline and fenris but a lot harder with isabela.
For your warriors, on top of increasing damage resistance you will want to consider getting elemental aegis: +40% elemental resistance and maybe consider upgrading it so it's +60% elemental resistance.
This means your scatters will be only doing around half the damage to your companions...but if your build is like mine, that'll still kill them easily.
So what you do is dump runes into their armour and/or shields. The issue with S&S is that you can only get access to runes of spirit/nature warding in act 2 = ff issues throughout act 1.
The other issue is that as you will have to be switching elemental weapons (to avoid immunities) you will have to get immune to two elements. While the bonus from elemental aegis covers everything, the bonus from runes is specific.
I'm not too sure how much elemental resistance runes in shields/armour give but for act 2 you will have 2-3 shield rune slots and 1 armour rune slot for Aveline and 2 armour rune slots for fenris.
This means that you may have to prioritise and get immune to only one element (I would recommend spirit).
Anyhow, from then on you should be facing less ff issues.
I'm not sure if it's affecting you, but ff works both ways meaning that Aveline/Fenris can easily ff you. As you are taking up all the elemental swords and fenris won't be able to solely use elemental 2H weapons, your hawke will face ff issues whenever they pull a scatter/scythe.
Unless this is desirable thing (e.g. if you have enough dmg resistance/con not to die and are a reaver which can use that to unleash extra damage).
There is another possible solution by using rally. Rally allows you to convey your elemental aegis to your allies and when upgraded will allow you to give them a temporary +60% to their elemental resistance. This means that it is quite easy to grant your warrior companions a temporary immunity to elemental damage (if the elemental aegis bonus stacks) and will help a lot in the case of isabela, which I will get to in a second. Hawke doesn't have to be the one to do the rally, and if you (for god knows why) wanted to do a 3melee party, your warrior companions could help protect each other/a rogue.
So basically, using rally paired with elemental aegis should allow you to scatter your companions with elemental weapons without as many ff issues (though this bonus is temporary and will not help with the general ff issues from autoattacks etc).
Isabela will be a lot harder to handle. She only will have one runeslot (for act 2) and no abilities to increase elemental resistance. Additionally, as a rogue she is naturally more glassy. Umm.. a possible solution in addition to the rally trick is maybe getting two mages to have fully upgraded arcane shields which would give her an additional 10% elemental resistance (as well as 20% to both your mages which may help friendly fire issues a little bit when trying to haul their asses out of trouble - may help with avoiding the drama of killing the companion you're trying to save)
As is said before, i'm not too sure how much resistance a rune slot will convey (and it will decrease as you level) so i'm not sure whether it's possible to get her immune.
Well good luck with figuring it out, I look forward to hearing if any of these methods (runeslots, elemental aegis, rally, arcane shield) works for you as this is only theory (haven't tested it out yet).
I'm starting to lose my high from the concert I just came back from so I think i'll stop spieling now haha
Modifié par mr_afk, 21 mai 2011 - 04:43 .
#16
Posté 23 mai 2011 - 09:46
lionalio87
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Ok now I get myself as the S&S warrior, and Aveline, Isabella or Fenris as the second melee in my squad, but whenever I use scatter, it always hit my companies, no matter what kind of elemental resistance that I apply to them. This is annoying, but I tend to think since my attack always based on shield damage, and that's physical damage, so I may have no possibility to reduce it. Your tricks work well when I have an elemental weapon, but I wonder if there exist the other ways to prevent the friendly fire caused by scatter. If not, I should practice more my skill of controlling my team.
Modifié par lionalio87, 23 mai 2011 - 09:46 .
#17
Posté 23 mai 2011 - 11:51
mr_afk
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Umm your shield damage is based on your element type - unless you do that weird shield bash move by autoattacking an enemy behind you..(you'd notice it, it's the weird 1000+ dmg as it's based on your shield armour-rating I think).
So your scatters should be doing elemental damage. It's probably because you don't have 100% immunity? elemental weapons go through armour so the 1000s of damage you should be dealing is pretty much going straight into your companions, only reduced by their elemental resistance and damage resistance.
This means that unless they are next to immune and have lots of health, they will suffer the effects of a scatter a lot more (enemies have a lot more hp). Um.. but yeah, i would recommend just getting good at getting your companions out of there. I don't play with any elemental resist on my melee companions when I play with Isabela (e.g. the long road), and all you need to do is either command them to get out of there (so you can scatter the lot), or otherwise draw threat by a few autoattacks, retreat a bit, then scatter them.
Scatter has a really wide but short aoe. So if your companion is right next to you, say goodbye.
In terms of other ways, most people would just stop at 'don't have more than one melee member'. That is the most effective way to reduce friendly fire. Otherwise practice and making sure the area is clear before scattering is a must (you'll only be able to give your companions immunity later on).
On another note though, are you using the edge of night/desdemona? If you have two runes in aveline's shield and one in her armour and elemental aegis on i'm pretty sure she should be immune?
So your scatters should be doing elemental damage. It's probably because you don't have 100% immunity? elemental weapons go through armour so the 1000s of damage you should be dealing is pretty much going straight into your companions, only reduced by their elemental resistance and damage resistance.
This means that unless they are next to immune and have lots of health, they will suffer the effects of a scatter a lot more (enemies have a lot more hp). Um.. but yeah, i would recommend just getting good at getting your companions out of there. I don't play with any elemental resist on my melee companions when I play with Isabela (e.g. the long road), and all you need to do is either command them to get out of there (so you can scatter the lot), or otherwise draw threat by a few autoattacks, retreat a bit, then scatter them.
Scatter has a really wide but short aoe. So if your companion is right next to you, say goodbye.
In terms of other ways, most people would just stop at 'don't have more than one melee member'. That is the most effective way to reduce friendly fire. Otherwise practice and making sure the area is clear before scattering is a must (you'll only be able to give your companions immunity later on).
On another note though, are you using the edge of night/desdemona? If you have two runes in aveline's shield and one in her armour and elemental aegis on i'm pretty sure she should be immune?
Modifié par mr_afk, 23 mai 2011 - 11:53 .
#18
Posté 27 mai 2011 - 08:35
lionalio87
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This is for update my character building, I have had the elemental damage and all kind of the resistance around my NPC, but whenever I use scatter or assault (My shield is the normal shield), they are still hit as the physical damage, although they are immune to the elemental damage that i've provided them.
Although I've tried Fenris to see what is the different between the 2H and S&S, but the situation is just slightly better, I can equip him the elemental damage weapons and have my squad immune to it, so no problem, of course I'm not fool to equip him the physical damage weapon, which can hit my squad easily.
So I guess in the next time, I should try to control my squad more frequent and keep the other melee out of my reach (at least for me and Fenris). Any other suggestion will be very appreciate
Although I've tried Fenris to see what is the different between the 2H and S&S, but the situation is just slightly better, I can equip him the elemental damage weapons and have my squad immune to it, so no problem, of course I'm not fool to equip him the physical damage weapon, which can hit my squad easily.
So I guess in the next time, I should try to control my squad more frequent and keep the other melee out of my reach (at least for me and Fenris). Any other suggestion will be very appreciate
Modifié par lionalio87, 27 mai 2011 - 08:35 .
#19
Posté 27 mai 2011 - 08:46
mr_afk
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If you haven't seen this yet this may be of interest to you:
This should mean that as long as you and your warrior companions don't use activated abilities (e.g. that scatter/assault that keeps killing your companions haha) and focus on abilities which increase your autoattacks you should be able to have happy ff-free melee party (and you'll be able to use physical weapons if you so wished). But then again, I suppose that isn't really the problem as S&S autoattacks don't cause that much ff usually (I haven't encountered much anyway)
Anyhow I'm pretty sure/definitely sure that the shield-type does not effect the damage type you inflict. There are only rare instances where an autoattack will register the shield as the weapon and you'll see a really high white number (as the attack is based off your shield's armour rating). I doubt that you'd be lucky/unlucky enough to have that occur to you regularly however.
And are you sure that you are 100% immune? My hawke only has 98% (now 92%) spirit resistance and walking bombs will reliable kill her. Much like walking bombs, scatters/assaults dish out 1000s of damage, so if you don't have immunity that few percent of damage may still be enough to kill companions.
But yeah, best solution is to make sure your companions are out of range when using scatters/assaults.
Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Hey, guess what! Melee friendly fire on warrior basic attacks is gone in the next patch.
This should mean that as long as you and your warrior companions don't use activated abilities (e.g. that scatter/assault that keeps killing your companions haha) and focus on abilities which increase your autoattacks you should be able to have happy ff-free melee party (and you'll be able to use physical weapons if you so wished). But then again, I suppose that isn't really the problem as S&S autoattacks don't cause that much ff usually (I haven't encountered much anyway)
Anyhow I'm pretty sure/definitely sure that the shield-type does not effect the damage type you inflict. There are only rare instances where an autoattack will register the shield as the weapon and you'll see a really high white number (as the attack is based off your shield's armour rating). I doubt that you'd be lucky/unlucky enough to have that occur to you regularly however.
And are you sure that you are 100% immune? My hawke only has 98% (now 92%) spirit resistance and walking bombs will reliable kill her. Much like walking bombs, scatters/assaults dish out 1000s of damage, so if you don't have immunity that few percent of damage may still be enough to kill companions.
But yeah, best solution is to make sure your companions are out of range when using scatters/assaults.
Modifié par mr_afk, 27 mai 2011 - 08:48 .
#20
Posté 27 mai 2011 - 09:08
lionalio87
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I just spam the rune of fire or frost warding etc and have one of the mage activate the elemental weapon and up, enter the battle. Maybe they are not completely immune but i'm sure that they cannot suffer a severe damage from the elemental ones. (One exceptional case is Aveline or Fenris, since i have build the Elemental Aegis for them 
, therefore they can be completely immune).
Of course when I don't use any active abilites (except the Giant Reach for 2H), my squad doesn't suffer any unexpected damage from my character. But if I equip the 2H with physical damage weapon and also have the Giant Reach (or Scythe, Whirlwind...), the situation will be very bad (maybe some guy will call me a fool but I get a feeling that the 2H is some type of "naughty" attacker).
So I guess that's the ultimate solution: Try to keep my NPC away from my tank attacker. I often controll the battle, but sometimes I fail, but okay, i just waste some more injury kits!!!
Btw, since you mentioned the new that the melee friendly fire on warrior basic attacks will be suppressed, so I guess one or 2 more weeks I don't have to worry about this and try hard to keep out my NPC from my tank (it's interesting but annoying, somehow)
, therefore they can be completely immune).Of course when I don't use any active abilites (except the Giant Reach for 2H), my squad doesn't suffer any unexpected damage from my character. But if I equip the 2H with physical damage weapon and also have the Giant Reach (or Scythe, Whirlwind...), the situation will be very bad (maybe some guy will call me a fool but I get a feeling that the 2H is some type of "naughty" attacker).
So I guess that's the ultimate solution: Try to keep my NPC away from my tank attacker. I often controll the battle, but sometimes I fail, but okay, i just waste some more injury kits!!!
Btw, since you mentioned the new that the melee friendly fire on warrior basic attacks will be suppressed, so I guess one or 2 more weeks I don't have to worry about this and try hard to keep out my NPC from my tank (it's interesting but annoying, somehow)
#21
Posté 27 mai 2011 - 10:47
mr_afk
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I think you were missing my point about elemental weapons. I'm referring to the actual an elemental weapon base damage, not the mage sustain.
Elemental weapons (mage sustain) gives you an additional 10% damage of a type based on the base element of their staff. Runes work in a similar way.
Been immune to let's say spirit, while your mage has a spirit staff will merely make you immune to the +spirit damage of your weapon (which is usually quite low ~4-5).
The other damage from your base weapon type (the amount multiplied by the damage multiplier of abilities) will still cause damage unless that too is spirit.
So when I refer to elemental weapons I am referring to things like the edge of night which has a base damage that is spirit.
Here is an example of the elemental resistance solution I proposed:
Hopefully this helps to clarify things.
edit: I've added some annotations explaining/translating the shoddy quality.
Elemental weapons (mage sustain) gives you an additional 10% damage of a type based on the base element of their staff. Runes work in a similar way.
Been immune to let's say spirit, while your mage has a spirit staff will merely make you immune to the +spirit damage of your weapon (which is usually quite low ~4-5).
The other damage from your base weapon type (the amount multiplied by the damage multiplier of abilities) will still cause damage unless that too is spirit.
So when I refer to elemental weapons I am referring to things like the edge of night which has a base damage that is spirit.
Here is an example of the elemental resistance solution I proposed:
Hopefully this helps to clarify things.
edit: I've added some annotations explaining/translating the shoddy quality.
Modifié par mr_afk, 27 mai 2011 - 10:56 .
#22
Posté 27 mai 2011 - 11:03
lionalio87
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Yeah, I know what you mean, and I also applied the elemental weapons, but sadly, no elemental weapons for shield. If I can get the "elemental" as you say, I don't have to be so agony with the friendly fire like this.
Anyway, thank you very much for your assistance, hope we can find more other interesting things to discuss
Anyway, thank you very much for your assistance, hope we can find more other interesting things to discuss
#23
Posté 27 mai 2011 - 11:12
mr_afk
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Nooo you missed my point! haha
My point that what we're looking for are elemental weapons like the edge of night, desdemona's, anderfel's cleaver and the act 3 2H weapons NOT the mage spell.
These weapons are all unique and quite rare which makes things harder.
Anyway, I've fixed up the annotations so they actually show (bloody youtube). What the video demonstrates is that it is possible to get immune to friendly fire.
Using a spirit weapon I scattered aveline with 100% spirit immunity and she didn't feel a thing.
I also demonstrated the importance of 100% immunity.
I scattered aveline with only 90% spirit resistance and she died haha.
So if you're willing to use only two weapons for your S&S (it works quite well as you can swap to face immunities and will encounter many weaknesses) and if you use companion rune slots for getting spirit/nature resistance, it is quite possible to have a friendly fire free melee party.
In the case of Isabela you'll probably need two mages sharing elemental arcane shields or one warrior using rally.
But my main point is use weapons with an elemental base damage!!!!
Also, as a side note - your shield doesn't actually contribute anything to the damage dealt. As such the 'damage' it deals from animations etc. will solely depend on the base damage of your weapon. If you have a spirit cleaver (edge of night) you'll only deal spirit damage. Same deal with nature.
My point that what we're looking for are elemental weapons like the edge of night, desdemona's, anderfel's cleaver and the act 3 2H weapons NOT the mage spell.
These weapons are all unique and quite rare which makes things harder.
Anyway, I've fixed up the annotations so they actually show (bloody youtube). What the video demonstrates is that it is possible to get immune to friendly fire.
Using a spirit weapon I scattered aveline with 100% spirit immunity and she didn't feel a thing.
I also demonstrated the importance of 100% immunity.
I scattered aveline with only 90% spirit resistance and she died haha.
So if you're willing to use only two weapons for your S&S (it works quite well as you can swap to face immunities and will encounter many weaknesses) and if you use companion rune slots for getting spirit/nature resistance, it is quite possible to have a friendly fire free melee party.
In the case of Isabela you'll probably need two mages sharing elemental arcane shields or one warrior using rally.
But my main point is use weapons with an elemental base damage!!!!
Also, as a side note - your shield doesn't actually contribute anything to the damage dealt. As such the 'damage' it deals from animations etc. will solely depend on the base damage of your weapon. If you have a spirit cleaver (edge of night) you'll only deal spirit damage. Same deal with nature.
Modifié par mr_afk, 27 mai 2011 - 11:17 .
#24
Posté 27 mai 2011 - 11:17
lionalio87
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Thank you for your point, I've already tried it, you know, the weapons with an elemental base damage, of course I know about them. But only for the 2H, not for the shield . So that's why for the S&S, I have to be careful till the next patch
. So that's why for the S&S, I have to be careful till the next patch
#25
Posté 27 mai 2011 - 11:22
mr_afk
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...but I just demonstrated it was possible with S&S?
I thought it was quite obvious in the video? I scatter and autoattacked Aveline without her receiving any damage. It is also quite simple to achieve (one rune and elemental aegis).
And as I stated, the shield doesn't actually do any damage - if you use an weapon with an elemental base damage you won't deal any physical damage, not from your shield or anything.
Ahhh, nevermind. I'm really confused about what you're trying to say. If you follow my idea you shouldn't encounter any friendly fire issues for both your auto attacks and your abilities. The patch will only help you out in the first part meaning that your scatters will still kill your companions.
So if you were really keen on having your party immune from all your abilities simply use the edge of night and desdemona's and get them immune to spirit/nature. :/
I personally wouldn't bother - just getting good at controlling enemies/not scattering when your allies are closeby is just as effective at reducing ff and you get the bonus of runes of fortune
Ah well, goodluck with whatever you decide to do.
I thought it was quite obvious in the video? I scatter and autoattacked Aveline without her receiving any damage. It is also quite simple to achieve (one rune and elemental aegis).
And as I stated, the shield doesn't actually do any damage - if you use an weapon with an elemental base damage you won't deal any physical damage, not from your shield or anything.
Ahhh, nevermind. I'm really confused about what you're trying to say. If you follow my idea you shouldn't encounter any friendly fire issues for both your auto attacks and your abilities. The patch will only help you out in the first part meaning that your scatters will still kill your companions.
So if you were really keen on having your party immune from all your abilities simply use the edge of night and desdemona's and get them immune to spirit/nature. :/
I personally wouldn't bother - just getting good at controlling enemies/not scattering when your allies are closeby is just as effective at reducing ff and you get the bonus of runes of fortune
Ah well, goodluck with whatever you decide to do.
Modifié par mr_afk, 27 mai 2011 - 11:33 .
