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[Sammy0721]

Based on Leiliana, Dorothea (the character from Leiliana's song) and the Divine, and the gentle nature of Elthina .... the Chantry holds equal distrust of templars (the formation of the Seekers which includes Cassandra) and pro-mage factions like Alistair and his boon and the obvious meddlesome Tevinter mages.

1st. In the Cousland storyline ... Duncan did not want to recruit the noble hero at the risk of "losing" the support of the noblility.  Overall, the power of the Wardens is conditional .. during a Blight, they get a lot of leeway ... with no archdemon ... the natural politics takes over and they want to stay out of poltics even during a Quanari invasion.

2nd. the entire Dorothea ... Cassandra ... Leilana storyline tells that the Chantry is watching the Grey Wardens, Quanaris, and militant mage factions and was very involved in the Grey Wardens defeat of the blight.

3rd. Meredith response to the mage Champion ... was I saw you use magic but she makes no effort to bring the Champion into the cricle.  The power of the templars seem to follow a certain guidelines ... the right of conscription provides the Wardens to ability to recruit any mage ... the right of annullment can only come from the Chantry (Divine and/or Grand Cleric) ... Circles are supposed to be governed by the First Enchanters ... once a mage passes a Harrowing they can not be made tranquil ... templars must work under the local laws and respect rulers (like Alistair or Viscount who spared Hawke from harboring a mage penalty .. Bethany stroyline).. the local Chantry leader selects the local Templar Commander.  It also seems that Kirkwall is a mess, and the templars are overwhelmed by demons, apostates, and blood mages ... which is why Mage Hawke, Bethany, Merrill and Anders spend a lot of time cruising Kirkwall with no templar involvment ... possible lack of phylacteries as well.  

Finally, it seems like Act 3 was a total rush job, not enough back story on Meredith or Orsino and EA just wanted to ship product (no WH or Golems plot flags).   

Meredith can't even rule Kirkwall, has very little support of the nobles, has to follow the guidance of the Grand Cleric, created division within her own templar ranks (Cullen, Thrask) and needs a lot of outside help with powerful apostates ... O, Quentin and Evelina so taking on the King of Fereldan and a mage Warden Commander ... may not of been a top priority. 

[tmp7704]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Did they accept it? We never hear anything about what the Chantry, the Grand Cleric (who seems to have distain for mages and magic from her scene at Ostagar), and Knight-Commander Greagoir think about the Commander of the Grey being a mage.

At the very beginning of the Awakening you get to meet with the queen/king and a templar who comes for Anders. If your assignment was made without the approval of the Chantry you'd hear about it right there and then.

[LobselVith8]

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Did they accept it? We never hear anything about what the Chantry, the Grand Cleric (who seems to have distain for mages and magic from her scene at Ostagar), and Knight-Commander Greagoir think about the Commander of the Grey being a mage.

At the very beginning of the Awakening you get to meet with the queen/king and a templar who comes for Anders. If your assignment was made without the approval of the Chantry you'd hear about it right there and then.

Why would Rylock comment on it if the Chantry or the Grand Cleric didn't approve? She wants to get Anders into custody, so what point would antagonizing the ruler of Ferelden and the new Arl of Amaranthine have when she knows the Right of Conscription can be invoked to rescue Anders from the Circle of Ferelden? Rylock wants the apostate to pay for what he's done, and she later tries to convince the Commander of the Grey that Anders should be handed over. It isn't until the Commander refuses that she condescendingly refers to him as a mage and her group of templars attack them. Considering that Meredith is openly criticial of the Magi boon despite the fact that it was turned down years ago, I would have expected her (of all people) to comment on a mage being the Arl of the nearby arling of Amaranthine, particularly since she sees mages as cursed.

[tmp7704]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Why would Rylock comment on it if the Chantry or the Grand Cleric didn't approve?

For the same reason you believe Meredith would? Out of sudden you think if the member of templar order was faced with the prospect of a mage being put in charge of an arling without prior Chantry approval, i.e. something you insist goes against everything the Chantry stands for... she'd keep quiet about it? That's curiously selective.

And if that was indeed happening without Chantry agreement then the idea she wouldn't do it to avoid antagonizing the ruler and the mage in question is rather ludicrous. Since wouldn't the very move of appointing a mage to such position against the will of the Chantry be an antagonization on the ruler's part? Going with this theory as true for a second, they already are defying the Chantry, and Rylock being nice isn't changing (or preserving) anything.

Modifié par tmp7704, 26 mai 2011 - 05:31 .

[LobselVith8]

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Why would Rylock comment on it if the Chantry or the Grand Cleric didn't approve?

For the same reason you believe Meredith would? Out of sudden you think if the member of templar order was faced with the prospect of a mage being put in charge of an arling without prior Chantry approval, i.e. something you insist goes against everything the Chantry stands for... she'd keep quiet about it? That's curiously selective.

How is it selective? I already addressed that Rylock wants custody of Anders, and isn't willing to antagonize the King (or Queen) of Ferelden, and even asks the Commander of the Grey for custody of Anders when they head to the warehouse. It isn't until the Commander refuses that she even addresses that he's a mage, and orders her templars to attack them. Meredith, on the other hand, takes King Alistair to task for the Magi boon, even though the Chantry turned it down almost seven years prior to their conversation.

tmp7704 wrote...

And if that was indeed happening without Chantry agreement then the idea she wouldn't do it to avoid antagonizing the ruler and the mage in question is rather ludicrous.

Why is it ludicrous? Rylock never says one word about the Magi boon, while Meredith does almost seven years after the Chantry said no. The arling of Amaranthine is governed by the Teyrn of Highever, who hands over the arling to the Grey Wardens. We already know it's illegal for a mage to inherit a title because of the situation with Connor, but the Hero of Ferelden can become the new Teyrn of Gwaren the moment he asks the new ruler for a title and riches, and even a post-Magi boon Hero of Ferelden can become the new Arl of Amaranthine as the Commander of the Grey, which makes him a high noble who has lesser nobles swearing fealty to him and the title gives him authority that's unprecedented for a mage in Andrastian society.

There's nothing to indicate there was any agreement with the Divine or the Grand Cleric in making the Hero of Ferelden the new Commander of the Grey. The Chantry of Andraste has authority over the Circle Tower, the Order of Templars, and the Circle mages, which is why the Magi boon becomes an issue, but even the prohibition against mages being nobles doesn't prevent the Warden-Commander from becoming precisely that.

tmp7704 wrote...

Since wouldn't the very move of appointing a mage to such position against the will of the Chantry be an antagonization on the ruler's part?

It's not like it wouldn't be the first time. The ruler of Ferelden can loudly proclaims to the people that mages have earned the right to govern themselves and should be free from Chantry and templar rule. I doubt the Chantry was happy about the new ruler of the nation and the Hero of Ferelden going against what the Chantry has done to the mages for a thousand years. This is also true for a ruler granting the Hero of Ferelden the title of Teyrn of Gwaren as a mage, which clearly goes against Andrastian law.

tmp7704 wrote...

Going with this theory as true for a second, they already are defying the Chantry, and Rylock being nice isn't changing (or preserving) anything.

Except Rylock wants custody of Anders, which is why she asks for custody of the escaped Circle mage from the ruler of Ferelden at Vigil's Keep and then Warden-Commander in the City of Amaranthine. King Alistair is clearly going against the Chantry by keeping apostates from templars, so I don't see why we should be surprised that the leadership of the nation has no problem with a mage being the new Arl of Amaranthine.

[Nightdragon8]

I think she would and does, yes we don't get to hear it voiced at all but doesn't mean she doesn't ike it. Also I agree, in reality Amaranthine is a Grey Warden place, and to be a grey warden you need to serve others not to rule. So while she may not like the idea of the mage head the grey wardens are also a really special case. While they have armies they are not sposed to use them for politcal reasons.  So in reality its like they are the 3rd level citizan. Unless there is a blight then everyone turns to them for guidance (well maybe not power hungry,  depressed idiots)

Also just because some tempars are asses doesn't mean all of them are. alot of them seem to have problems with there jobs. but they are are soldiers that are also addicted to lyrium. So they really don't have a choice.

So while it could have been added it may have just slipped there minds, who knows maybe the directors of DA2 didn't think it needed to be mentioned.