673 réponses à ce sujet

[corey_russell]

Nice fight with the 5th floor baddies...amazing more of you didn't fall.

[BelgarathMTH]

@Corey: thanks. I found that Haste makes all the difference in the world here. Werewolf Island has very tough melee but very little enemy magic to worry about. It also helped a lot to avoid tight quarters where I couldn't have protected weaker party members. I kept running back down and even out of the ship, splitting them up on the ship levels, and thus refusing to fight them on their own terms. Poor wolfies.

[corey_russell]

Er, I was talking about the Iron Throne, not your journey through TotSC areas...

[BelgarathMTH]

Oh, okay, I thought you meant the top floor of the ship on the island.

Yeah, that one didn't go so perfectly. That's why I was so emotional about surviving it. The "Force" was definitely with us, there, i.e., we were lucky.

[corey_russell]

By the way, don't know if you've read this in my runs, but one of the more reliable ways to take out the Iron Throne 5th floor baddies is a single fighter with scroll of magic protection and arrows of detonation. The scroll doesn't protect against the arrow blasts (guess because they are physical, not magical), so aim at the farthest opponent (the archer is good). Then just blast away until the 4 farthest are dead and use melee on the melees.

[BelgarathMTH]

@Corey, thanks for another good tip, my friend.

Update 4/5/2012:

More Postcards from the Edge:

Here's a shot of my party confronting the last of the doppelgangers of Candlekeep, after being framed for murder. These were very strong with the Darkside, but not strong enough to resist my True Sight:



Here's an invisible Imoen discovering big trouble blocking our way:



Here's my party casting Haste, Web, and Silence x 2. The Sith party doesn't stand a chance:



Here's me moving into the Web equipped with my Spider's Bane lightsaber. I have given Gavin and Branwen field promotions to master. Masters Gavin and Branwen have used the Force to Hold two Sith. This battle is over before the Sith can even strike a single blow:



A Force-invisible Padawan Imoen discovers basilisks blocking our path! She runs back with her report, and I drink a Potion of Mirrored Eyes and kill the two basilisks myself. We proceed to the exit, and I Force Persuade a minion of Darth Sarevok to leave without my having to kill him:



Having discovered that Darth Sarevok and I are actually brothers (Master Gorion, why didn't you tell me!?), we must sneak, using either Force Invisibility or a circuitous route through the sewers, back into Baldur's Gate to confront the dread Darth Sarevok. A distraught Mistress Branwen, with whom I have fallen quite in love, shows that she is stronger with the Force than I, and saves us both from a potential fall to the Darkside by reminding me of our duty as Jedi, and why we must remain celibate and keep only the love of friendship between us:



I have found tomes within the tombs of Candlekeep to raise my Wisdom by 2 points, and my Strength to 19.

No level ups this session.

Reloads: 0

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 06 avril 2012 - 12:27 .

[BelgarathMTH]

Todd the Inquisitor, FINAL update:

-Did what we needed to get to the final battle. Using Invisibility 10', snuck past the outside SIth party so as not to waste resources.



-Drank lots and lots of potions, used greenstone amulet charges. For some reason, going through the door erased oils of speed and greenstone charges. Kivan opened and sacrificed his invisibility first by firing two arrows of detonation at Sarevok and his henchies. Then he promptly got turned to stone and was out. Something kept firing Fireballs at us over and over. (EDIT: It was Angelo, firing Arrows of Detonation. Dang.) Gavin got confused.



-Before the rest of my party died, we managed to take out Tazok, Semaj, and Angelo, and get Sarevok to badly wounded. It was just him and me. Even with Haste active, I could not outrun him to use my throwing axe. It came down to swords and dice rolls. If only I had had a few more Potions of Extra Healing, this might have ended differently. If I had thought to have Potions of Invisibility in my bag, along with more healing, I might also have pulled off the run. I was too dependent on potions of strength, power, magic blocking, and invulnerability, which wound up not doing much good. Also, I might have been able to kill Semaj and Tazok earlier in the game so as to avoid that Flesh to Stone and all that extra damage.





I have decided to make this into a no-reload, so it's over. I need to play something easier for a while (probably Sacred 2) so I can relax - this has wound up just being nerve-wracking, which is the last thing I need IRL right now.

Thanks to all who read and followed my run. I'd love to hear post-mortem comments on things I did wrong during that final disastrous battle. So close!

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 07 avril 2012 - 12:19 .

[SapphireIce101]

Ouchies! That is a good way to go though, no reloads until Sarevok kills you!  Perhaps I'll get that lucky someday. Hah.

Also, I'm not sure if I would have any tactical advice on that fight. Hmm, I usually just get lucky on that. Hah.

Lastly, as per the rules on the OP by CKT, or at least its implied.You wouldn't have been able to reload anyway..All of the party members were dead before you died. So, there wouldn't have been anyone to drag you out and resurrect you in the first place. 

Again, that is a good way to go! Hmm, I don't know if I'm going to update the challenger list. I may, or I may not.

Modifié par SapphireIce101, 06 avril 2012 - 09:17 .

[BelgarathMTH]

@Sapphire, thank you for your consideration and your reply.

Just to try to figure out what went wrong, I replayed that final battle two more times, and I know what is making me lose the challenge.

It's Semaj. He has a "Tatoo of Death" or some such, and it amounts to a Level 8 Sequencer or Chain Contingency, loaded with Flesh to Stone, Death Spell, and a couple of other nasties. The Flesh to Stone ALWAYS gets the first person Semaj sees (there should be a save, but there's not - I looked up a post from someone who said they had a save of 2, buffed into the negatives, and they still got Stoned), and the Death Spell will get all creatures in range (i.e. your whole party, and you too if you got close) if they are less than level 8, which they probably are in BG1.

Also, Angelo has 10 or 12 Arrows of Detonation, and will use them to Fireball you and your party at least a dozen times.

And that's not even counting the two Battle Horrors and Tazok.

This doesn't seem like a fair fight to me. Maybe green scrolls, Arrows of Dispelling on a forced attack to the altar, or something like that. Or a Wand of Summoning fired repeatedly.  I know that the no-reload experts don't seem to have trouble with this battle.

Strangely, I never had trouble on it myself on my previous setups and runs. I can't remember what I did differently, but usually, our potion buffs would not get dispelled upon entry (or upon Semaj's Tatto's Dispel Magic, or Angelo's Arrows of Dispelling), and we usually would kill Sarevok without even seeing Semaj or Angelo.

Oh well. As you say, at least it was an honorable death. Branwen and I should be eternally happy together as blue-shrouded Force Ghosts. LOL.

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 07 avril 2012 - 12:11 .

[ussnorway]

Standard tactics;
Battle Horrors = traps... have your Thief disarm them or at the very least have a Cleric detect them so you can avoid setting them off.

Sad but good tactics;
Wand of Monster Summoning: makes an army of peons to keep them happy whilst you do your thing.
Wand of Polymorphing: takes all the fight out of him nicely but Sarevok has excellent saves so stack the odds with ‘Greater Malison’ first... note that you can target the ground or even an friendly peon and still catch him in the blast area.

Opening moves;
IMO The best way to open this battle is with ‘CloudKill’ (scroll) you can get one from Fire Leaf Forest... directly south of Nashkel. This AOE spell should be cast at the ground in front of the alter i.e. without revealing yourself to them because that will typically delay the arrival of his lackeys whilst they try to find their way out of the clouds... as opposed to Sarevok who is scripted to charge ahead.
The second best opening is probably “Arrows of dispel” on Sarevok... the idea is to remove his haste effect but the fact that he can see you now means the lackeys usually jump in immediately.

[BelgarathMTH]

@UssNorway: Thanks for the tips. I'll be sure to find and save a Cloudkill scroll next time. And open with Arrows of Dispelling.

Where in the game can I get a Wand of Monster Summoning? And a Wand of Polymorphing? I never found them during this failed run.

[ussnorway]

The Ghast tomb (south east corner of Valley of the Tombs*)... you can get this wand very early by sending any Cleric (with ‘Sanctuary’ up) in to loot the 3 tombs without fighting because unlike invisibility it doesn’t break when you loot.
The wand starts with about 8 charges out of 50 but once you reach Sorcerous Sundries (E Baldur's Gate) you can buy more of them.

* From Nashkel Mines head east to Gibberling Mountains then head north and you arrive at the bottom of the Valley of the Tombs map.


“Wand of Polymorphing” is a reward for rescuing Louise and Laerta from the Bogeyman... a paladin can use ‘Detect Evil’ but anyone can work out whom is the responsible party by asking questions. See the NW Baldur's Gate map... it’s the house north of the Helm and Cloak**.

** This has a good bar fight with optional helpers and nice loot... don’t forget to grab the “Helm of Balduran” from the (trapped) safe upstairs.

[Satyricon331]

Wow, Belgarath, I'm sorry about that last battle. I found the vanilla version pretty difficult, and so I've only played it the one time. The SCS version sounds like something I wouldn't enjoy. I don't know how you could deal with their tactics without knowing in advance what they'll be doing.

[BelgarathMTH]

@Satyricon, thanks. This WAS the vanilla version. I shudder to think what it would be like with SCS. I guess I won't be trying SCS any time soon, because I'm being plenty challenged by vanilla, it seems. I think that a lot of people are just better at memorizing equipment, spells needed, and the exact ins and outs of every encounter than I am.

I still wish someone could tell me how to avoid a Death Spell with 6th-7th level characters! And a dozen Arrows of Detonation! They must have some way to get Semaj to waste his Tatoo on summonses or somehow killing him or Sarevok before it gets cast. I think one trick may be to get Sarevok to run out alone and leave his henchies behind at the altar - I seem to remember having killed Sarevok before without having to deal with Semaj and Angelo.

@UssNorway: Thanks for the extra info. This is a very supportive community.

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 07 avril 2012 - 02:30 .

[Satyricon331]

Oh my! I don't remember the death spell at all in vanilla, although it's been years. My first thought would be to try the Death Ward spell, but ussnorway's advice sounds better. Plus mine's the furthest thing from the voice of experience here

Modifié par Satyricon331, 07 avril 2012 - 02:40 .

[BelgarathMTH]

@Satyricon, hmm, interesting thought about Death Ward. That might work, if my clerics had enough spell slots. I think they had two level four slots each.

I'm seeing posts from people who don't seem to have Semaj and Angelo in their final encounters. Do I have a mod that's putting them in there? BG Fixpack or Unfinished Business, maybe?

I'm going to spend some time this morning replaying that final battle several times so I can try to learn some tricks. 

And now, I am re-entering the diviner run I had started about nine months ago into the challenge. It's a four man party, so we may have a better chance at the final battle, since we'll be higher level when we get there.

I always use my real name on my characters, but you can separate my runs by character class, i.e. "Todd the Inquisitor", "Todd the Sorcerer", "Todd the Diviner". If I start re-running classes, I'll go to "Todd 2.0", "Todd 3.0", etc.


**************************

Here is a quote of my last update from this run that I'm picking back up after nine months:

Update: (from August 2011)

-Left the shadow druids of the Cloakwood alone, because I don't have Jaheira in my party, and without her character quest, I couldn't find any solid evidence that they were hurting anybody, despite my Divination Sight going nuts. I'm reminded of the movie Minority Report and the wrongs committed in that society. Merely being evilly aligned or the subject of a vision of doing evil is not enough to convict and punish - if you do that, you will inevitably commit an evil act yourself due to misunderstanding the malleable nature of the future and free will.

"...Difficult to see. Always in motion, is the future."  Yoda, Empire Strikes Back

-Finished Cloakwood mines. Used two Potions of Magic Blocking on AJ and Gavin, and a Potion of Grounding on myself. Had AJ throw an Oily Burning at Davy, only damaged him for 3 hp. Davy attacked AJ and wasted some spells against the potion and the cavalier immunities. AJ went to the side chamber to wait there in case Davy teleported. Gavin attacked Davy with the Hammer +2 and took most of the rest of Davy's spell book without harm. Then I ran up and cast Spell Thrust, and Immy and I obliterated him with Magic Missiles. Finished an ogre he had summoned.

Pulled plug, end of mission.

-Brought Yeslick along as a temp until we got back to FAI, then dismissed him.

- Went bassilisk hunting. Loaded Immy's and my spellbook with Prot from Pet, map was easy. Didn't attack the brat party - they were just brats, not deserving of death, not from good characters. See first note, above.

-Finished Gullykin mission. Avoided the maze completely after having horrifying vision of my party frying on electrified maze floor despite Immy's best efforts to detect and disarm. Found a back way in through the halfling traitor's house. Killed the ogre mage and the wizard, then left. Nothing much to it when one stays out of that gods-awful maze!

-Killed the Gullykin bounty hunters with Web, Silence, Oil of Fiery Burning, and Wand of Fire. Easy peasy.

-Went to Durlag's Tower and killed two battle horrors using boohoodles of Magic Missiles. Was going to do first couple of floors of DT, but got summoned back to Beregost by Gavin's boss.

-Killed necromancer in Beregost for Gavin's boss. Got a +3 staff that I will use.

-Went to Ulgoth's Beard to visit Gavin's parents. Bought another +3 staff and a Greenstone Amulet while we were there. I don't think we'll do any missions here for now - I want to get the east forest (spiders and Thayvians) and the west coast (sirens) and then do part of DT first. I may or may not start the first phase of Baldur's Gate city before heading to Werewolf Island.

Todd - Level 7 Diviner (learned Stoneskin, Emotion, Improved Invisible)
Ajantis - Level 7 Cavalier
Gavin - Level 7 Cleric
Imoen - Level 6 Thief/Level 5 Illusionist

Reloads: 0

[SapphireIce101]

@Belgarath - On the final battle against Sarevok, I really only have Semaj and Tazok spawn because of something going on with aTweaks and SCS. So, its target Semaj and dispel his stuff, while someone distracts Tazok and Sarevok. Also, due to SCS, Semaj won't use BG2 spells. Then, once Tazok is down...I have to handspawn Angelo and the other guy needed to down Sarevok. So, I might end up skipping the Final Battle component next time.

Also, good luck on Todd the Diviner...again? Heh.

[BelgarathMTH]

@Sapphire, thanks.

I finally beat that battle on about the fifth try. Here are some interesting points and things I learned:

-You can stand just out of sight of the altar and bombard them with AoE. Dispel, Silence, Fireballs, Web. Webbing the altar was surprisingly useful in delaying the henchies.

-Satyricon's hint about having a Death Ward on everybody helped.

-Green scrolls of Magic Protection or similar potions aren't worth it. You need your buffs more than you need that.

-One reason I lost so many times was that I didn't have on the Boots of Speed. They are faster than Haste. I was able to do the dance of death with Sarevok at the end using a ranged weapon, run, drink healing potion method.

-Semaj's Flesh to Stone does allow a save. I wound up taking the hit from his Chain Contingency, and I lucked out and rolled a 20 save against petrification. Too bad we couldn't Silence him. We need green scrolls of Protection from Petrification here. Does anyone know where to get one in BG1? Or maybe we should have drank Potions of Mirrored Eyes or cast the spell on everyone.

-Semaj ironically wound up killing Sarevok for me by casting a Cloudkill into the room just before he died. It was hitting me for 2 hp, but hitting Sarevok for 7 or 8 hp every time we ran through it. Lesson learned: Sarevok is very vulnerable to Cloudkill. My diviner will need to make use of this. I will have to make sure he is high enough level to cast it several times. Hopefully Corey's patented "Cloudkill from the Shadows" will make this battle possible for a diviner.

- You really have to play the whole game with this final battle in mind as far as what equipment you hold on to and save charges on, especially wands. Nobody is going to beat this battle without either many, many reloads, or complete foreknowledge of everything that's going to happen.

-I'm not holding out much hope that my diviner can survive this, unless the Cloudkills work. I learned that MMM also can hit Sarevok pretty well if you can get it cast and stand still long enough.

-I'd still appreciate if anyone can identify which mod or mods put Angelo and Semaj into the scenario, especially Semaj's having Chain Contingency, Death Spell, and Flesh to Stone, and Angelo's having arrows of detonation.

-"Badly Wounded" and "Near Death" labels on Sarevok don't mean much. He's as strong as a dragon compared to character levels 6-9.

-I'd stil appreciate any tactical ideas that our resident experts can think of and would care to share. Do all you no-reload guys and gals have the Semaj-Angelo problem in your games?

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate your feedback.

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 07 avril 2012 - 05:06 .

[ussnorway]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

-Went to Durlag's Tower and killed two battle horrors using boohoodles of Magic Missiles. Was going to do first couple of floors of DT, but got summoned back to Beregost by Gavin's boss.

Tip; There is always a random element but 2-4 shots from a wand of frost will kill that Horror much quicker. If you want to try it out then there is a free “Frost wand” (10 shots remaining from 50) hidden in the tree NW corner of the Nashkel Mines map.

[BelgarathMTH]

@UssNorway, thanks for the tip. I appreciate any others you can give me. I marvel at the memory and problem-solving ability of you, Corey, Gate70, and Blackmalkin, which is how I would define high Int in real life. 
 
(You all must have real life high Int. I think that I have above average Int in real life (originally 14 or 15 compared to your 17 or 18),  but which is definitely fading as I grow older, (probably no more than 12 or less at my current age), but my strong suit IRL has always been Wis, defined as ability to perceive wholistically, gain sudden intuitive insights, and make broad connections and categorizations. Maybe I would do better as a cleric than as a mage. Although, no or minimal reload success at BG requires that the player have both real life high Int and real life high Wis. Interestingly, the new generation of games requires neither - they are more oriented on real life Dex if on any stat at all, and they make real life Int and Wis almost irrelevant.)

Update 4/7/2012:

-cleared the TotSC maps. Had a horrible Dream of a blue woman killing AJ instantly with a kiss. Upon seeing a blue woman and divining a horrible sense of doom, I ordered my party to open fire immediately. So much for the blue woman.

-gave AJ the Tome of Constitution, hoping that it might give him a needed edge in the final battle against Sarevok. It was useless to me, as my constitution is already at 16.

-cleared Durlag's Tower down to the guardians. Gavin will wear the Golden Plate +3.

-dealt with the first three guardians. I think it would not have been that bad, except for the sudden respawning of phase spiders! AJ went down, and this got very close to a party wipe! In the end, we had three guardians down, all but the mage Love, and were able to retreat all the way to Beregost to Raise AJ.







-returned to DT, and AJ found Love in a side corridor. He took a lot of damage, but we prevailed:



-I will cast divinations in an attempt to ascertain whether we should descend into the Pit or not. I feel a great evil down there, and I doubt that we can face it, or whether it is worth risking at least part way. Will the pit lid lock on us and force us to confront the demon below? Could we obtain a magic item that might help us against Sarevok if we were to dare just a brief sojourn into the demon's realm? I must meditate and attempt to use my diviner's power to make a decision.

Todd: Diviner level 8
Ajantis: Cavalier level 7
Gavin: Cleric level 8
Imoen: Thief level 7/Mage level 7

Reloads: 0

[ussnorway]

The target demographic of modern games is 12 year olds, hence the dexterity focus... BTW Good luck.

IMO Its more romantic (profitable) to kiss the blue girl then kill the bully who forces her to prostate herself for passing strangers... Does Todd have a familiar or are you unwilling to break the Diviner restriction?

[BelgarathMTH]

@UssNorway: I have no familiar, as I am in fact playing by the rules and thus cannot summon.

I actually tried to get the good resolution of the Shoal scenario in my recently failed inquisitor run, and I agree with you that the ending is much more satisfying if you can get it. I blew it last time because my party kept attacking her and killed her after she submitted - I know now that I have to be careful to just get one party member to be attacking and then pull that party member back quickly after she submits.

Honestly, I just didn't feel like the effort while I was playing last night, so I took the easy way out this time.

[BelgarathMTH]

I have decided to move this run, at least temporarily, to the BG1 no-reload thread. I will resume posting here if I die under the correct circumstances (party could conceivably Raise the fallen Charname), and I want to use it to practice the final battle of BGT Sarevok.

Otherwise, I already have a new idea for a cleric of Oghma (via Divine Remix). Isn't this game amazing in its replayability and constant regeneration of "ideas I want to try"?

[SapphireIce101]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

I have decided to move this run, at least temporarily, to the BG1 no-reload thread. I will resume posting here if I die under the correct circumstances (party could conceivably Raise the fallen Charname), and I want to use it to practice the final battle of BGT Sarevok.

Otherwise, I already have a new idea for a cleric of Oghma (via Divine Remix). Isn't this game amazing in its replayability and constant regeneration of "ideas I want to try"?

Ooh, good luck in the no-reload challenge!

Also, I've never played a Priest of Oghma..I've done a Feywarden of Corellon which was Kalyinara, but I don't use divine remix anymore, mainly because divine remix and spell revisions don't get along. Oh, well, have fun!

[BelgarathMTH]

Moving Todd the Plain Vanilla Cleric, Update 4/14/2012:

-hunted ankhegs for thousands in xp and solved the child cleric of Umberlee quest, returning her bowl.

-got the initial Baldur's Gate business done up to Return to Candlekeep.

-Here's our party defeating the ogre mage in the sewers. Used haste and remove fear before descending. Dynaheir used wand of fireballs, I cast silence (didn't work), Coran and Khalid used arrows of acid, which are no longer gimped in vanilla. Dynaheir's fireballs did most of the work.



-DISASTER. Top floor Iron Throne. Was going to use my usual "split the party between two staircases so as to not get bottlenecked" strategy. Dynaheir cast haste, I cast remove fear, Minsc equipped the Spider Sword so as to move freely among the planned webs. Held Khalid and Jaheira back on the bottom floor as a reserve.

Dynaheir cast web, I cast silence (I think it might have worked on one mage), and Coran started firing arrows of detonation (I had bought 5 for him and 5 for Khalid). I believe the areas of web and fireball may be slightly larger in vanilla than I have been used to. Dynaheir got caught in her own web just as she got a critical hit from an archer who made a save vs. web. Then one of Coran's arrows of detonation comes too close as the archer gets her again. DYNAHEIR IS CHUNKED! Oh, no! Surprisingly, Minsc did not react. I guess his program was too busy with all the fighting he was doing. The rest of us finished up nicely with almost no injuries, but it took me 45 minutes of play time to do all the management for a recovery from this debacle.



-Got Quayle to replace Dynaheir as my arcanist. He has horrible stats (10 wisdom for a cleric/illusionist?), but he's the best I can do. I am pretending that Quayle feels surprising sympathy for a distraught Minsc, and promises to find him a new witch, which should help him go on with life as Dynaheir would have wanted. Quayle gradually becomes moved by Minsc's innocence and easy friendship, and his character begins to change. A year or two later, he will found a travelling circus and discover yet more compassion in himself upon finding a poor, wounded winged elf with her wings having been cruelly amputated...

Here is a shot of a voice-acted dialogue I had never heard between Quayle and Khalid. Apparently, they don't like each other:



Todd: cleric 6
Minsc: ranger 6
Jaheira: fighter 6/druid 5
Khalid: fighter 6
Coran: fighter 5/thief 6
Quayle: cleric 5/illusionist 5

Reloads: 1 (against Davaeorn)

EDIT: Dang! The over-hyped "green scroll of protection from magic" lets me down yet again! I went to Ice Island, thought that using the green scroll would protect me. I was actully going to put it on Minsc, who can't read it. Turns out, in vanilla, the green scrolls autocast on the reader. So I had to go for it. I had Quayle summon two armies of skeletons. The first mage promptly confused all the skeletons. So much for the supposedly useful trick of summoning skellie armies. I killed the first mage, but one of the other two summoned two ghasts. Most things in TotSC material have no problem hitting AC -6, rendering AC useless already. Ghast Hold Person ignores protection from magic. So much for the overhyped green scrolls. Reload number 2. I will not be returning to Ice Island. We'll chalk this one up to "a warning in a horrible dream from the gods".

Reloads: 2 (against Davaeorn and Ice Island summoned ghasts)

EDIT #2: SIGH. Quayle just got chunked by the ogre berserker in the Blushing Mermaid. This was partly because the game inverts your marching order upon area entry. (Avoid by reversing your party order yourself every time you enter an area?) Here is a shot of my unfortunate encounter with the ogre berserker, permanently losing us Quayle (the thing simply would not leave him alone, and he could not navigate away among all the waitresses and patrons.)


I will now be making a beeline for the end of this run. Quayle's chunking didn't happen, due to a "vision from the gods".
Reloads: 3 (Davaeorn, Ice Island summoned ghasts, Quayle chunked in the Blushing Mermaid)

Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 14 avril 2012 - 11:42 .