75 réponses à ce sujet

[deuce985]

Yea, I know, another one of these threads. Seriously though. I'm playing through this game and it does so much right. I could see this game appealing to people who aren't huge fans of RPGs too. The combat is so fluid. Combat usually happens two ways in a RPG for me. It gets more fluid(action) with the sacrifice of streamling RPG elements(DA2). Or it gets clunky because it is too RPG heavy trying to be a action game, so the RPG elements get in the way of the fluid combat(ME1).

Witcher 2 does it perfect. You have a combat system that is all about action...and it is fluid. It doesn't streamline much at all either. The best thing about it is the RPG elements and action compliment each other. This is very rare in a RPG like this.

The world is simply amazing in Witcher 2 also. This is another weak point in Bioware games. Everything is alive. Contrary to belief, a alive/beautiful world can help convey the atmosphere better. It is also, at least to me, helps me feel like I'm there. This makes character interactions feel so much better, I can get involved with them more.

I'm still very early in the game and this is just my personal observations so far. This game seems like the perfect balance of the action/RPG genre. Their conversation system is somewhat similar to Bioware, only their decision system isn't as linear. I noticed that within the first 5 minutes of playing. Bioware has made some of the most epic games I've played but they can learn A LOT from Witcher 2. A lot of the weak areas in Bioware games are resolved in this game, at least to me. Their story/characters seem to be better than Witcher 1 but not quite on Bioware's level yet. At least from what I've played. That is about the only thing I can say isn't better than other Bioware games I've played. This is only a few points I love about this game but some of my favorite so far.

My question is, are Bioware employees playing this game? Do you think Bioware can learn a lot from it? What do you like about it and can see Bioware using in the future? And if you haven't played it GO GET IT NOW. Easily my GOTY so far. Very talented devs in only their second game.

Modifié par deuce985, 19 mai 2011 - 08:52 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Who cares if it's another Witcher thread? People need to toughen up here. Creating a thread with the same name as another is offensive to people here. Tough. This is a forum and forums are the places people go to talk. Forums gain their names from the Roman public spaces of ancient times where people would go to talk and gather together. Don't worry if the ill-tempered regular forum users get angry at this topic. They just need to go outside once in a while and calm down. It's like half of the regulars here are constantly angry and always find a reason to moan and complain over something so minor.

Now to the subject at hand:

While I don't like The Witcher 1 (it's decent IMO but not good), it did have good ideas and features; the day and night cycles and how the cities seemed more alive. None of this is hard to achieve. Modules created for NWN contain NPC scripts where they perform certain tasks at different times and even go to sleep. NWN also contains a day and night system. I don't know why this couldn't be implemented into Dragon Age: Origins. God knows Dragon Age 2 needed such a system most since most of the game is set in a city that didn't even feel realistic.

I think with dialogue and characters...Bioware get them right and Bioware games do give choices, they just don't do them very well and need to improve upon that. Bioware can learn from many other games but who says they don't know these things already? They just want to try their own things but they have failed with the decent Dragon Age 2. However, they've already made it clear that they aren't going to listen to fans fully and that they will continue developing the Dragon Age series as they developed Dragon Age 2. Just expect for less recycled areas, better graphics and improved combat which would most likely be as fast as Dragon Age 2's combat.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 19 mai 2011 - 09:42 .

[Aaleel]

Making a living world. The cities and villages, even the forests are just so alive. Just walking through the areas they seem so real. People walking around, people working, people talking, running from the rain. The day night cycle. The rain at night is awesome.

Choices that matter, but moreso, that you don't even know the full effect until farther down the line. It may not even be something you thought would be an important choice, and it turns out to be.

[astrallite]

DA2 got mailed in. Running around in a lifeless city that doesn't change over 10 years, recycled areas, reused assets from DAO, 90% of DA2 is the chanter's board style quests that made up about 5% of DAO.And they charged $60, while Witcher 2 was $45.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Definitely the living world aspect. Day/night cycle too.

I would also like some of the morally grey decisions though, Bioware's always had a bit of trouble deviating from the Paragon/Renegade paths. There is an inbetween, you know. Dragon Age 2 tried to remedy this, but it just ended up invalidating your choice a lot of the time.

Aside from that though, it's a matter of execution. Bioware is not some newbie studio, they know their craft.

[Chuvvy]

Choices. That's a decision flow chart for TW2.

[gotthammer]

Edit: yeah. BioWare can learn a lot of stuff from both Witcher games.

Also, IMHO, they should look at Dragon Age: Origins and build up from there (and not from DA2...tho' they should learn from their mistakes on DA2).

Things to be improved/considered:
- atmosphere: TW1 and TW2 handles this very well, whether it's the lighting, the look/feel of the locations, or the sound (music and ambient sounds).
TW1's and TW2's environments feel alive, DA:O's, too, for the most part. DA2...not really (esp. not the city, which is, I think, supposed to be a 'major character').

- scale (or a sense of it) and showing more (as opposed to telling us: video games are, primarily, a visual medium): again, TW1 and TW2 do quite well in this aspect. DA:O was so-so, but definitely better than DA2 in this regard.
IMHO, the lack of 'showing' (such as establishing shots for key locations, like Kirkwall) in DA2 hurt the 'experience'.

- as w/ the guy who posted a 'decision flow chart' above: more choices. Also, choices that matter: it really felt like Hawke was more of a passive observer than an active participant, most of the time.

- are you an action RPG or a 'classic RPG': DA2 felt like it was trying to be both (exploding bodies, over-the-top action, but still pretty much like DA:O in it's core mechanics). IMHO, BioWare should keep the DA series a 'classic CRPG', like DA:O...or go full-ahead to being an action CRPG. Not something that feels, IMHO, 'half-baked'.

- don't release a rushed product. Granted that TW1 and TW2 (I haven't finished the latter, yet) had release day problems, for TW1, the game still felt complete (and, bugs and my slow PC aside, I have very little issues w/ TW2). DA:O was also pretty solid at release. DA2 was quite bad, in this regard, IMHO.

Modifié par gotthammer, 19 mai 2011 - 10:49 .

[Ischkwezrn]

Weapons, clothing, armor, architecture, landscape, just pretty much everything.
As good as DA series is, the guys at CD project are simply the best by far in our times.

Compared to the Witcher 2, the buildings in DA2 or DAO look like plastic toys. Same thing with so many things.

The fencing moves in the Witcher are also based on real fencing (and not on wushu acrobatics), which is quite cool and makes the world far more believable than not. The jumps and all in DA2 feel a bit ridiculous in comparison.

Sex scenes are also better in the Witcher.

[suprhomre]

the Witcher 2 just killed DA2, why because the game is fun to play. It's a game made by adult for adult. The sex scene actually contains sex and nudity. Also if you press a button something awesome actually happens. The story is also very good written. Now, I have to go back and play this awesome game.

[marshalleck]

I think Witcher is a pretty cool guy. eh kills munsters and doesnt afraid of anything.

[Monica83]

The real problem is Da2 claimed as dark fantasy is not a dark fantasy per se... In fact the game don't feel mature at all..

Character:
In Da2 the only character interesting is varric the other ones are pretty stereotypal like

Fenris: classic emo drama queen mad with the world with a dark past and badass voice.... Those character are really popular on manga...
Merryl: A try to bring tali in dragon age saga.. With the result that seems one of the most stupid character in a videogame
Isabela: the classic pirate and oversexualized woman that wear a corset long boots and pants...
Aveline: The im a female soldier wannabe.. Law Law Law
Anders: A mage possessed with a spirit...Justice.. Quite good character..
Carver: the classic i'm better of you! brother
Bethany: The classic:oooh im a good girl virgin one i clean myself all day with a perfumed soap!

Character in the witcher 2 are very much more complex..With merits and demerits..we have:
Dandelion: The bard and a funny jerk.. In beginning it seems a jerk a unthrustable people but him is always ready to help friends like Geralt..
Triss Merigold: She is a really complex character.. In fact in the first the witcher you tend to think she is an opportunist and she play with people.. But she is also lovable with geralt and inloved of him..She is also a perfect teaser..Very smart..She follows her feelings..
Zoltam: Is a drunken dwarf it seems very rude but him have nice feelings.. Him is involved bigger things.. But is a nice friend for geralt and tend to help him...

I not mention the other character because well.. play the game and you will see

Since now i played the witcher 2 and i must say... ALL is maked with love and passion... The story is great... Character are great... A very dark Envirovment but also with feelings and tender moments..When you play it you notice how evrything in this game felt alive.. And hov the areas are well detailed.. Yes is a dark world but whitout lose the beauty of it...

DA2 is rushed.. streamlined.. trowed out... full of lack of detail..Dialogues are weak as a long the paraphrasing didin't mach well whit what your character is going to say.. The animation kill the immersion.. They are stilized and choppy not like the witcher one that have style but they are well maked... And a bit too much exagerrated...Wawes wawes of ennemy... out of enywhere.... In the witcher 2 you can solve many situation also whitout fight...

[Monica83]

i add this:

Bioware of the past can have nothing to learn from cd-project.. But now yes... They have to learn how to make a great rpg...If they continue to release things like DA2 they always release Garbage...

[Persephone]

I love both DAII and TW2 but I do believe that just as CDPR learned a lot from Bioware in the past, there is much Bioware can learn from TW2. (Most of which has already been mentioned)

[Bryy_Miller]

As much as I'd love to participate in this thread, the very premise puts forth the idea that DA2 would have been the same game if not rushed. So it's futile to say what they can and can't learn.

[naughty99]

inb4 end of line

EDIT: @Monica I'm a big fan of Dandelion, Zoltan and Triss, but if I had to choose between Triss or Merril?  Hmm...very tough call, but I have to go with Merrill 

Modifié par naughty99, 20 mai 2011 - 01:02 .

[Khayness]

Sex sells.

[Maverick827]

Clearly they can learn more about in-game romances from CD Projekt, the studio who pioneered such features.

[Nithrakis Arcanius]

The game needs to come first.

The focus needs to be on making a great game with as few compromises as possible. With CDProjekt I get the sense that they are all about making the best possible game that they can make with the confidence that succeeding at that will bring them financial success. They are trusting their fans and gaming fans in general.

BioWare seems to have lost sight of this and want to guarantee financial success by cutting corners and relying on past successes to drive momentum. This will not pay off in the long run if they continue to produce games like DA2.

TW2 is an example of a sequel heading in the right direction and DA2 is an example of the opposite.

[deuce985]

Another thing that I notice while I'm playing Witcher 2 is this isn't a PC only thing. They could port Witcher 2 to consoles easily. Obviously toning down the graphics but aside from that, I don't think anything really needs to be streamlined. They could easily port the combat engine directly to consoles without having to change much if anything at all. They should definitely make a 360/PS3 version, everyone deserves to play the game, IMO.

[deuce985]

Persephone wrote...

I love both DAII and TW2 but I do believe that just as CDPR learned a lot from Bioware in the past, there is much Bioware can learn from TW2. (Most of which has already been mentioned)

Witcher 2 has many similarities to Bioware games but they heavily refined off their ideas with their own. As of right now, the bar has been raised for RPGs in general and Bioware needs to respond. I'm expecting ME3 to answer the calling. I still have lots of faith in Bioware.

@people talking about the romances in Witcher, well, I do have to say that is something I enjoy.  Not because zomg b00bs sell either. The romance scenes in Bioware games are just completely awkward. I guess they fear backlash from politicians by adding nudity to their games but seeing as their games are suppose to be for adults, I don't see the problem. Sex is sex. When you have a romance like that you have sex. Nudity does add substance just like in a rated R movie. Nudity isn't a big deal, it is apart of everyone's life. Why does 95% of rated R movies have it in there? I could see why they avoid it though.

Modifié par deuce985, 20 mai 2011 - 02:37 .

[Boiny Bunny]

deuce985 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

I love both DAII and TW2 but I do believe that just as CDPR learned a lot from Bioware in the past, there is much Bioware can learn from TW2. (Most of which has already been mentioned)

Witcher 2 has many similarities to Bioware games but they heavily refined off their ideas with their own. As of right now, the bar has been raised for RPGs in general and Bioware needs to respond. I'm expecting ME3 to answer the calling. I still have lots of faith in Bioware.

Indeed, the companies should be noting what works and what doesn't from one another's titles.  If nothing else, I think we can all safely say that CDPR has put itself on the map, in a large way, and it would be well worth Bioware paying some attention to the features of their games (and vice versa of course).

[Loup Blanc]

deuce985 wrote...

Another thing that I notice while I'm playing Witcher 2 is this isn't a PC only thing. They could port Witcher 2 to consoles easily. Obviously toning down the graphics but aside from that, I don't think anything really needs to be streamlined. They could easily port the combat engine directly to consoles without having to change much if anything at all. They should definitely make a 360/PS3 version, everyone deserves to play the game, IMO.

I agree with that. Sadly, a lot of selfish folks tend to say it should remain PC only. I really don't see how it would be wrong to develop great RPGs on PC first, and then port them to console if possible.

[Boiny Bunny]

JL81 wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

Another thing that I notice while I'm playing Witcher 2 is this isn't a PC only thing. They could port Witcher 2 to consoles easily. Obviously toning down the graphics but aside from that, I don't think anything really needs to be streamlined. They could easily port the combat engine directly to consoles without having to change much if anything at all. They should definitely make a 360/PS3 version, everyone deserves to play the game, IMO.

I agree with that. Sadly, a lot of selfish folks tend to say it should remain PC only. I really don't see how it would be wrong to develop great RPGs on PC first, and then port them to console if possible.

I don't think that there are many who believe console porting is bad in principle.  The problem more becomes, if CDPR do port TW2 to consoles, and it is a relative success, there is a good chance that TW3 will be co-developed for PC and consoles at the same time, meaning that the scope of the game will be dramatically reduced for PC players.

[Bryy_Miller]

Maverick827 wrote...

Clearly they can learn more about in-game romances from CD Projekt, the studio who pioneered such features.

I was wondering when someone would go there.

[HoonDing]

I wonder whether people here will ****** over Skyrim as furiously as TW2.