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[Morroian]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Maybe it could be enabled as a tool-tip, showing up at the top of the screen as a subtitle does?

Incidentally, here's something else that DA2 does that irritates me.  It calls that text at the top of the screen a "subtitle"

Subtitles appear at the bottom of the screen.  If the text is at the top of the screen, it's a surtitle.

I wish they were subtitles.  I'd find them easier to read if they were subtitles.

I agree, as someone who watches quite a lot of subtitled films I'm conditioned to look for it at the bottom.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Read Mike's second post in this thread

And yet, during DAO's development David said that whether they switched to a voiced protagonist for subsequent Dragon Age games would likely be based on how well received DAO's silent protagonist was.

That's a relative measure, and the book isn't yet closed.

Moreover, Mike's remarks consistently make his next game look like his best game.  He's universally positive about whatever mechanic he's using right now, but as soon as he moves on he's more than willing to tell us what's wrong with that previously faultless feature.  And he has also had recent failures in terms of predicting what features are going to be in the game he's currently working on - see any pre-release discussions of a detachable targetting camera for DA2.

Mike's a useful guy to talk to when dealing with design philosophy generally, but he's awful at predicting what features he's going to include in upcoming games.

[CyberSnakeME2]

Alistairlover94 wrote...
Which is why I dislike the dialouge wheel. It doesn't allow me to predict the character's actions/words. While a silent PC and the dialouge list, did.

You see, this is why I think people like you are stupid, no offence but really? I played Mass Effect not knowing how the Dialogue Wheel was gonna do for me, eventually I figure it out and knew how Shepard would react, Mass Effect 2 came around but people complained even more, even though it was clear as day, Upper Choice = Paragon Lower Choice = Renegede.

Played Bioware games since KotOR came out liked the dialogue tree but felt that the Hero was "Quiet" per say, just standing there, same for DA:O besides if people prefer that then the original Witcher must be their wet dream come true cuz everything that tree showed was what Geralt said voiced!

Personally Mass Effect, DA2 and Witcher 2 (I know not a Bioware game but proves my point) are games that tell what the Hero is going to say while making you wonder "Hmm, wonder what he´ll say in this one?"
And if people complain about DA2 Dialogue Wheel when they dumbed it down even more than ME2 telling what kinda of action Hawke would take on the given conversation and you still say that you cant predict what Hawke says? Then you my friend are too stupid to understand someones personalty, I mean, its either a Noble, Funny or Direct action that, sure I dont claim I knew everthing Hawke was going to do in my first play, but given his character (Sarcastic type) I had a good idea.

Hell, if you dislike DA2 dialogue then go play Alpha Protocol cuz there you really jump into it totaly blind.

[Tommy6860]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Read Mike's second post in this thread

And yet, during DAO's development David said that whether they switched to a voiced protagonist for subsequent Dragon Age games would likely be based on how well received DAO's silent protagonist was.

That's a relative measure, and the book isn't yet closed.

Moreover, Mike's remarks consistently make his next game look like his best game.  He's universally positive about whatever mechanic he's using right now, but as soon as he moves on he's more than willing to tell us what's wrong with that previously faultless feature.  And he has also had recent failures in terms of predicting what features are going to be in the game he's currently working on - see any pre-release discussions of a detachable targetting camera for DA2.

Mike's a useful guy to talk to when dealing with design philosophy generally, but he's awful at predicting what features he's going to include in upcoming games.

That aside, I just provided what you said you haven't read here before, but though he noted in that thread there will be, and must be changes, he was pretty certain in his words regarding using a VO. . I don't like it beause it takes away more gaming because to do VOs take more devlepment time. With the cost of development with today's hardware and graphics, the sacrifice will come from somewhere.

[TEWR]

xnoxiousx wrote...

Origin Storylines ftw

Origin storylines and set races ftw.



honestly, if I play as an elf society should treat me differently. Humans should all talk to me with vitriol in their mouths, other elves should open up to me, and.... well I have no clue how Dwarves should act. They'd probably just say "You're an elf. Meh...."


The races should change peoples' reactions to the player character to give us a better sense of being that character. Some people use "But you were the Warden, not an elf/dwarf/human." Well not everyone immediately knows I'm the Warden because I don't have a big sign with it emblazoned on my chest. I'm not wearing a purple target that says "Shoot me! I'm the Warden!"

Likewise, set races should have enough of a difference between classes. DA2 failed in this regard because the mage playthrough changed nothing. It did what Origins did after the origins storylines. One or two lines of dialogue differ, but that isn't enough.

If I'm a mage and I'm shooting Fireball Fireworks into the sky in front of the Templars, they need to react. The Qunari should be wary of you because you're a mage, especially the Arishok. At the very least convince him to trust your word that things are safe when he calls you basalit-an. I know they slay mages when they speak, but something should have changed to reflect that you're a mage.

A game with a set race needs to have enough difference between classes so that people don't feel as restricted. DA2 didn't do this because as I said the game was largely the same. Origins didn't do much either. One or two lines of dialogue change in certain areas of the game:

• Human Noble: The Landsmeet when you talk to nobility.
• Mage: Broken Circle
• Dalish Elf: Brecilian Forest and two lines in the Alienage portion of the Landsmeet
• City Elf: Alienage. I'm assuming the BF too, but I never played CE past Ostagar.
• Dwarves: Orzammar.

But all of those changes were barely anything. Sure a Dwarf Noble got an additional quest if he had sex with that woman in the Origin story, but what does that really do? It's just another change that only applied to the Origin Story setting and not the whole entire game.


I believe Bioware will do both set races and Origin stories depending on the story of the game. David Gaider's post saying they haven't ruled out the concept of Origin stories makes me believe this even more so.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Tommy6860 wrote...

That aside, I just provided what you said you haven't read here before,

Yes, you did.  Thank you.

but though he noted in that thread there will be, and must be changes, he was pretty certain in his words regarding using a VO.

Yes he was.  I don't think that makes any difference.

[Tommy6860]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

That aside, I just provided what you said you haven't read here before,

Yes, you did.  Thank you.

but though he noted in that thread there will be, and must be changes, he was pretty certain in his words regarding using a VO.

Yes he was.  I don't think that makes any difference.

To what? He made a statement regarding VO, after that, it is supposition to what you want to extrapolate further to be honest. It really isn't worth discussing if you're just going to deal with it using rhetoric. I made my case to him my disapproval to not having an SP in the future, but Bioware is going to do what they see fit. I can only go by his words there that VO is the future.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 31 mai 2011 - 12:33 .

[Dave of Canada]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[*]City Elf: Alienage. I'm assuming the BF too, but I never played CE past Ostagar.

Two lines change where they insult you with city-elf insults but then it falls into standard human hate.

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


[*]City Elf: Alienage. I'm assuming the BF too, but I never played CE past Ostagar.

Two lines change where they insult you with city-elf insults but then it falls into standard human hate.

 

And that just doesn't cut it for me. I don't know how the City Elves should be treated ideally, but two different lines just isn't enough.

[Dave of Canada]

Oh, forgot to say. I don't count changing a word in a line as a different line, like hearing "Flatear" instead of "Shem" isn't counted. Though I doubt that's what you meant by differencing dialogue.

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Oh, forgot to say. I don't count changing a word in a line as a different line, like hearing "Flatear" instead of "Shem" isn't counted. Though I doubt that's what you meant by differencing dialogue.

No not really, but I don't count it either. What I would look for at the very least are the dalish elves treating me with scorn, humans showing racism unless otherwise shown they don't look down on elves (Duncan and Alistair), maybe even spitting on the elf character like Hubert did to that Fereldan. That gave a sense of the Orlesian thought process of Fereldans being less than dirt beneath the frilly shoes that the Orlesians wear.

If there's racism in Thedas, then it should be shown to the player character if he's playing as the victimized race, y'know?

[In Exile]

Filament wrote...

So, I was just thinking, regarding origins... couldn't they give you a racial choice with one origin, if that origin happened to give you an elf mother? Correct me if I'm wrong, but with elves, elf+human=human, elf+dwarf=dwarf, and elf+elf=elf, right? So if it's an elf mother origin, you could be any race and even plausibly have the same voice actor (same mother, same accent).

For a game? I would say yes, but you'd have a lot of people up in arms about racial variation and voice. Even though I disagree.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

I pick "Hey! I'm a mage!" She goes "I have friends who are mages". I sat there going wut?

At least you didn't pick a line which resulted in Geralt dying in a cutscene giving me a game over forcing me to pick the other option. 

I believe that is what is called "consequences to your actions". DA2 was really, really in need of those. Handing over Isabela to The Arishok is effectively negated by her escaping. And Hawke should have actually said something similar to the paraphrase. She would've gotten hauled off by the templars, and we could've gotten a quest where seh's an escaped apostate. Much more interesting.

It would have been interesting yes but then warriors and rogues would be left behind. Unless special content and quest were created for them too and without knowing BioWare's budget it is impossible to say if this would have been possible.

But I would love class specific or even race specific (if we get to pick race again) quests.

[Leoroc]

To me it wasn't really paraphrasing, it always looks as though your character says what is on the dialogue wheel, and then adds to it with whatever is actually voiced over. Some of the dialogue doesn't make a lick of sense if you don't think of it that way.

[TEWR]

Leoroc wrote...

To me it wasn't really paraphrasing, it always looks as though your character says what is on the dialogue wheel, and then adds to it with whatever is actually voiced over. Some of the dialogue doesn't make a lick of sense if you don't think of it that way.

weeks back I thought the same thing but it doesn't work for everything. Or even half of what you say.


Either way, what we pick needs to actually be said.

[Leoroc]

Regardless, va and origins aren't exclusive. It was already stated many times before this thread that the lack of origins was due to the family involvement and the mage/sibling relationship. I am mostly upset with the choice of va. Maybe it should be neccessary for there to be two or three voices for each gender. More expensive sure but it would also help replay value greatly.

With dao, each playthrough it was a different person experiencing the same events in their own way. With da2 replays are just mirror universe versions of Hawke. I definitely prefer choice of origin (even if there are only 3 instead of 6).

[TEWR]

That's much better than what DA2 does. That's what I suggested the dialogue wheel for DA do. No paraphrase, just a snippet of text that is actually said somewhere in the sentence when you pick that option.

[TEWR]

Leoroc wrote...

Regardless, va and origins aren't exclusive. It was already stated many times before this thread that the lack of origins was due to the family involvement and the mage/sibling relationship. I am mostly upset with the choice of va. Maybe it should be neccessary for there to be two or three voices for each gender. More expensive sure but it would also help replay value greatly.

With dao, each playthrough it was a different person experiencing the same events in their own way. With da2 replays are just mirror universe versions of Hawke. I definitely prefer choice of origin (even if there are only 3 instead of 6).

yup that's another thing I suggested somewhere in the constructive criticism thread. Being able to choose from multiple voices for your character.


In Origins, that battle voice you picked effectively solidified how your Warden sounded to the rest of Thedas. That was his voice.

[TEWR]

while I personally don't mind having one voice (meaning if I had one voice I wouldn't complain so long as the VA was good), I would like to have the option to choose from various voices.

I always choose the same voice for Xanthos Aeducan because it just fits. But the fact that I can choose another voice if I wanted to is what I appreciate. It's the option that we can change who our character is to Thedas that makes it worthwhile.

A sex fiend, a psychotic murderer, a goody-two-shoes, whatever.