650 réponses à ce sujet

[element eater]

I like being able to create my own character anything that limits this is a bad thing for me a voiced character just has too many disadvantages to justify its advantages.

As to the races maybe it didn't have a huge impact in the game beyond the origin but it did frequently change how people reacted to your character in a lot of instances which imo was excellant.

also@ harold how is it a limitation? i see what your saying but that's really such a small aspect of the story do you really need to sacrifice so much to include it? after the first act theres is absolutely no requirement for a mage in the family and even act one there could easily be a work around. besides as lots of people have said an elven Hawke would still fit the story even with the requirement for a mage

[Sharn01]

huwie wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...
That doesn't follow. The fact that I understand spoken words in any accent is organic to me being human. The accent only is used to highlight differences between the character to give them singularity apart from other characters, not to denote some nationality (we are not talking about real people here from the real world). Though there are other races in the game, how does that change when I need to hear the spoken words? Is Merrill an Elf or Welsh (see what I mean)?

I don't think I do ... she's an elf, and in this game elves have Welsh (and "similar") accents. If my elf character then has some cut-glass English accent, that would sound wrong for me, just as if my human character came from a cut-glass English family, yet somehow had picked up a Welsh or American accent.

Accents are not inherent to a particular race, they exsist because that is the way they learned to speak, and I believe city elves lack the welch accent.  Any dwarf, elf, human or qunari will speak with the accent that was present where they where raised.

[Beerfish]

I like the voiced player. I really don't care about the races as much. Origins worked nicely because you have a variety of different starting mini quests. I could go either way and it wouldn't kill me as long as the companions are good and the story is decent.

[Drasanil]

I didn't like the VA all that much for the protagonist, for one the dialogue wheel and the mini-phrases didn't really convey what Hawke would say half the time, which often meant I'd find myself second guessing my choices and hedging my bets when replying.

I'd much rather select text and imagine reactions fitting to my own and/or my character's rather than have some VA show me what I "should" be feeling. A voice PC really feels like a crutch for people with ADHD.

As an aside I want race choices back. I hate playing human characters in fatansy games, I find them incredibly dull, mostly due to their perspective being limited by the fact they are so inherently common in every sense of the word.

Modifié par Drasanil, 20 mai 2011 - 03:04 .

[kglaser]

BP20125810 wrote...

From what I know, the voiced main charachter was one of the reason DA2 had only a human PC.  Would you be willing to ditch that for more replayability and customization in DA3, at the loss of not having a voiced protagonist?

Yes.  Especially since I found Fem!Hawke's VO to be so "meh".

[nicethugbert]

I'd rather keep the voiced protagonist. It brings the game to life.

[Shadowlit_Rogue]

I'd prefer to go back to the DA:O style of gameplay. If having a voiced PC means that the game can't even come close to reaching the kind of depth that the last game had, then it's just a gimmick to me.

I also greatly prefer a silent protagonist, but if they were able to do something as big as DA:O with a voiced main character, I'd be for it. But think of all the conversations there were in DA2. For each NPC response, there were several that Hawke could make in return. Hours' worth of dialog. Double that for the other gender, and Hawke's voice is taking up a lot of space that could be used for other things.

I just don't see the point, or how the benefits outweigh the cost, especially considering the genre (the BG-inspired, tactical medieval-fantasy RPG genre). It works for Shepard, but the ME series is a whole different thing entirely; a sci-fi shooter/RPG with a voiced main character is exactly what the series set out to be.

[GodWood]

Silent protaganist.
Even without race selection a silent protaganist is superior.

[huwie]

Sharn01 wrote...
Accents are not inherent to a particular race, they exsist because that is the way they learned to speak, and I believe city elves lack the welch accent.  Any dwarf, elf, human or qunari will speak with the accent that was present where they where raised.

That's true ... and a particular game could be built around such ideas (BG would have had no trouble; the character would  probably have absorbed Gorion's accent, or the Candlekeep accent if there's such a thing). However, it's not a general solution to this problem, since it constrains the kinds of stories that can credibly be told.

[nicethugbert]

Silent protagonist is superior when the protagonist is a telepathic mute.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 20 mai 2011 - 01:23 .

[Huntress]

People complained about the warden been mute, blank sheet, poker face, you named, now that we all got the voiced main character, you are complaining of poor story.. well guess where the money from the "better story" went to?

I like the warden story and hawk, now if I have to choose, I want it all the main character to be voiced.

[laertid]

Drasanil wrote...

I didn't like the VA all that much for the protagonist, for one the dialogue wheel and the mini-phrases didn't really convey what Hawke would say half the time, which often meant I'd find myself second guessing my choices and hedging my bets when replying.

I'd much rather select text and imagine reactions fitting to my own and/or my character's rather than have some VA show me what I "should" be feeling. A voice PC really feels like a crutch for people with ADHD.

Yes.
I want to know what my character is going to say (in DA2 when you choose "I'm a mage", and Hawke says "Well, some of my friends are mages"... you feel like O_O), and the silent protagonist means more time and disk space for really interesting things. Companion banters in the camp and outside the camp, for example.

And I really miss Origins. Maybe your Origin was not so important in the story: elf, dwarf, or human - it doesn't matter, you're a Warden - that's what matters. But Origins itself were very beautuful and interesting little stories: I suppose a lot of gamers played each Origin just to see it. Having an Origin was like having a history, your own unique history.

[Zem_]

Huntress wrote...
People complained about the warden been mute, blank sheet, poker face, you named, now that we all got the voiced main character, you are complaining of poor story.. well guess where the money from the "better story" went to?

Interestingly, it ALSO costs more to provide multiple origins and that does nothing for the quality of any ONE of the origin play-throughs, which is what people will judge the game by (if they even finish it ONCE... and many do not).

But that said, it's quite the exaggeration to hang the whole problem with the story on voice acting.  VO isn't cheap but unless you're using a big-name Hollywood actor, it's not outrageous either compared to the many other expenses of developing a modern video game.  DA2 only has one male and one female VO.  Getting rid of that would not magically have extended the development time from 18 months to equal that of DAO and gotten us some fabulous new story with no map re-use, multiple origins, etc.

[Carol L S]

The voice helped me to connect with my character, and I would NOT want to give that up and get the mute staring ones I had in Origins. Being human is fine with me.  Now, If I were stuck being an Orc or something, it might be different!

[Zem_]

laertid wrote...
And I really miss Origins. Maybe your Origin was not so important in the story: elf, dwarf, or human - it doesn't matter, you're a Warden - that's what matters. But Origins itself were very beautuful and interesting little stories: I suppose a lot of gamers played each Origin just to see it. Having an Origin was like having a history, your own unique history.

You may want to have a look at IGN's recent article on DA2 and RPGs.  They make reference to the XBOX achievement aggregator page which has some very interesting stats (at least for the XBOX version) about what people actually achieved in Origins.  When you have a game with six origins and half your playerbase doesn't even finish it ONCE... you might start to re-think the cost-benefit of having multiple origins.  

For those who play and re-play their RPGs:  The hardcore fanbase... sure, it sucks.  But this is reality.  They can't spend this much money on a game and only market it to a small niche of hardcore RPGers.  They'll be out of business and then you won't have anything.  That said, if they're going to save money by focusing on a single origin story then they need to SPEND that money doing it right.  

[Lord Nikon 001]

I'd loose it. I like the idea of mentally creating my own voice. I'd rather have the choice of different races at character creation. I also had no problem with the wall of text from Origins. I felt I had more control of what I wanted to say.

[Addai]

Zem_ wrote...
You may want to have a look at IGN's recent article on DA2 and RPGs.  They make reference to the XBOX achievement aggregator page which has some very interesting stats (at least for the XBOX version) about what people actually achieved in Origins.  When you have a game with six origins and half your playerbase doesn't even finish it ONCE... you might start to re-think the cost-benefit of having multiple origins. 

For those who play and re-play their RPGs:  The hardcore fanbase... sure, it sucks.  But this is reality.  They can't spend this much money on a game and only market it to a small niche of hardcore RPGers.  They'll be out of business and then you won't have anything.  That said, if they're going to save money by focusing on a single origin story then they need to SPEND that money doing it right.  

I take it you mean this article.  The problem is, what does that statistic (only 52% of Xbox 360 players got the achievement for finishing the game) really mean?  Origins still sold gangbusters and was critically praised, so I'm tempted to ask- so what if people didn't finish?  If they still liked the game and told others to buy it, what does that matter?

[Huntress]

Zem_ wrote...

Huntress wrote...
People complained about the warden been mute, blank sheet, poker face, you named, now that we all got the voiced main character, you are complaining of poor story.. well guess where the money from the "better story" went to?

Interestingly, it ALSO costs more to provide multiple origins and that does nothing for the quality of any ONE of the origin play-throughs, which is what people will judge the game by (if they even finish it ONCE... and many do not).

But that said, it's quite the exaggeration to hang the whole problem with the story on voice acting.  VO isn't cheap but unless you're using a big-name Hollywood actor, it's not outrageous either compared to the many other expenses of developing a modern video game.  DA2 only has one male and one female VO.  Getting rid of that would not magically have extended the development time from 18 months to equal that of DAO and gotten us some fabulous new story with no map re-use, multiple origins, etc.

Well am not going to hunt for old post about what people wanted DA2 to be, am just reminding everyone of what so many OTHERS wanted and thats what we got, more or less. I didn't mind warden been mute, and I got fire from every side including from Bioware saying how clumsy warden looked and so on.

I like Origens, I love every single one of my wardens and none are dead, and yet, because of OTHER players doing the US, the warden story ended after he/she sunk the blade on the archdemon. Again this is a reminder of why the warden story is gone for ever. ( sadly)

Now I am sure DA2 main character is Human because it was a poll about  what race was more popular or because of players achievements, the truth is HUMAN won the War. Do I want different races main character yes of course, but let it be clear that everything that DA2 is today is because of what people asked to/from bioware.

[Zem_]

Addai67 wrote...
I take it you mean this article.  The problem is, what does that statistic (only 52% of Xbox 360 players got the achievement for finishing the game) really mean?  Origins still sold gangbusters and was critically praised, so I'm tempted to ask- so what if people didn't finish?  If they still liked the game and told others to buy it, what does that matter?

It matters because obviously they weren't going to be allowed to spend as much time or money making DA2 as they did DAO.  Given that, they have to take a hard look at where they really got their money's worth and given how many people apparently played just humans and, on top of that, didn't even finish the game once, the major selling points of multiple origins (1. that you can play other races, and 2. that it adds re-playability) are rather diminshed compared to the cost of actually implementing them.

[DegenCutter]

 Ugh . . . no I do not want the silent protagonist back.

In fact, as a long time tabletop gamer, I say why limit what computer games can do well to cater to things better handled by other mediums entirely? If you want freedom to play whatever you want, go play a tabletop RPG - they're simply better for that sort of thing.

A voiced, semi-fixed protagonist is fine with me so long as I get to make some of the choices to shape the character (like I did with DA2 or Mass Effect).

Look, I played and enjoyed Origins, but the truth is that the origins had little effect beyond a few pieces of throw away dialog here and there. I remember being very disappointed at how little reaction and satisfaction I got when I finally got to confront Arl Howe as a Cousland warden. So disappointing. Hawke's reactions in the second game are much more satisfying than the silent, cardboard warden.

Modifié par DegenCutter, 20 mai 2011 - 04:24 .

[laertid]

Zem_ wrote...
You may want to have a look at IGN's recent article on DA2 and RPGs.  They make reference to the XBOX achievement aggregator page which has some very interesting stats (at least for the XBOX version) about what people actually achieved in Origins.  When you have a game with six origins and half your playerbase doesn't even finish it ONCE... you might start to re-think the cost-benefit of having multiple origins.

Well, I don't think that XBOX gamers dropped DAO because of the Origins only. And is there any statistics about people finishing\\not finishing DA2? It might be interesting.

Ok, ok, I want too much *tries to make puppy eyes* but...  maybe not Origins but a simple race\\class\\history choice. For example, even if our hero is a Ferelden refugee, he\\she can still be a human, a surface dwarf (there were dwarves in Lothering, I'm sure), a Dalish elf (like Merrill), a city elf, a runaway Circle mage (like Anders). Of course, DA2 story is for human and only for human, but DAO and Awakening stories were good for everyone.  I'd like another good for everyone story.
Dreaming, just dreaming, I suppose :innocent:

Modifié par laertid, 20 mai 2011 - 05:59 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

DegenCutter wrote...

 Ugh . . . no I do not want the silent protagonist back.

In fact, as a long time tabletop gamer, I say why limit what computer games can do well to cater to things better handled by other mediums entirely? If you want freedom to play whatever you want, go play a tabletop RPG - they're simply better for that sort of thing.

Tabeltop games need other players.  CRPGs do not.

That's the only difference that matters.  Every difference beyond that is a mistake in CRPG design.

Origins or not, I want a silent protagonist back.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 20 mai 2011 - 06:06 .

[Pedrak]

The voiced protagonist affected the lack of origins, but in a much greater sense then the " the accent would be wrong!" problem - they could simply have solved this with a "neutral" voice with no particular accent, which could have been ok for all three races without much of a stretch.

The fact is that: VA for the PC-->too expensive to make a game as big as DAO-->something has to go. Hence a shorter game focusing on a pre-set character, AND a "luxury" feature like the origins gone.

The devs themselves, years ago, admitted on these forums that a game with a voiced PC would simply have to be much shorter than DAO.

For me, it's a lousy trade-off, although I don't hate a voiced PC per se.

They won't go back to a silent pc anyway.

Modifié par Pedrak, 20 mai 2011 - 06:38 .

[haroldhardluck]

Addai67 wrote...
I take it you mean this article.  The problem is, what does that statistic (only 52% of Xbox 360 players got the achievement for finishing the game) really mean?  Origins still sold gangbusters and was critically praised, so I'm tempted to ask- so what if people didn't finish?  If they still liked the game and told others to buy it, what does that matter?

The article has a link to the original statistics and it shows 73% completed the human noble origin but only 37% completed the dwarf nobe origins with the others falling in between. The 52% is the average and is misleading because it hides the fact that not all the origins were equally appealing to gamers. That is real take away from DAO. The Xbox players prefer playing humans over mages over elves over dwarves. However since race is irrelevant for mages, it is not known whether the mage played was human or non-human. I suspect (s)he was human.

So the results of the Xbox statistics is that players prefer playing humans over all other races. The elf origin was the next highest at 45% which is significantly lower than the 73% for humans. However the second highest was the "raceless" mage at 57%. I suspect that is the real reason Hawke is human only. There is no sense in creating a non-human Hawke when less than half of the players will play that character.

Harold