650 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Not if it didn't have VO and a paraphrase. Without VO, it could essentially be a game like DA2 without VO and the paraphrase. And I would wager you would like that game a lot.

True.  I incorrectly supposed that because the game would explicitly suggest a limited selection of supported personalities it would then enforce that limitation through dialogue mechanics.

If that is not the case, then yes the game could be terrific.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
True.  I incorrectly supposed that because the game would explicitly suggest a limited selection of supported personalities it would then enforce that limitation through dialogue mechanics.

If that is not the case, then yes the game could be terrific.

Like I said: I'm not married to VO. DA2 showed me that VO can lack features that I like. It is, in principle, possible to design a silent VO system that would actually provide more reactivity than VO by reducing the cost to zero. But I don't think anyone would be interested in the idea.

[Lumikki]

No voice is for me like silent movie, it's like something is missing. People assume the voice is limiting you choises, that's not true. It's money to make voices, that is limiting the choises. How ever, because the npcs are also voiced, it's also limiting the choises. So, it's not just "main" character voice that is limiting choises, but every "spoken" voice in the game.

So unless you people want totally silent games, you never get a lot of choises. If you take all voices off, then you can also take cinematic off, because no lip sync and face emotions is needed. It would be awkward to have emotions and lips moving, what doesn't fit in choises player is making. So more choises would also require more graphics animation, what cost also more money. Less is allways cheaper..

If you how ever say, it's not about the choises, but impression is what matters. Then that's personal issue. For me voiced give main character a lot better impression than not voiced. That's why we have graphics, animation, sound and voices, to give us better impression of living world. We have cinematic story telling to get our self in the correct mood in story, suck into the story. Not just feel like everyting is just hack and slash

My point is that voice, sound, animation and graphics are part of what creates the better impression.

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 juin 2011 - 02:42 .

[Sister Helen]

... I'm guessing by voice acting, the OP meant "voice acting for the player character" rather than voice acting for the npcs the player character meets in game.

I'm all for voice acting for the player character, as long as the voice actors are pretty good. I liked both Hawkes' voices (male and female). In the ME2 game, I liked femShepard but didn't care for maleShepard.

...If I were to make a suggestion, it would be to hire multiple actors to give the player a choice of voices - but I know sound files take up a lot of memory, so it's probably not doable, when balanced against memory considerations for the graphics.

[BP20125810]

More voiced charachters also takes up a lot of space. Take LA Noire as an example; their facial technology took up un an enormous amount of data space.

[Cutlasskiwi]

I have nothing against a silent main character in general, it worked great for me, in games like Baldur's Gate. But for me it becomes a problem or at the very least very bothersome with todays technology and the way games are made nowadays. Having the Warden standing around expressionless while everyone else in the world talked and showed emotion kept breaking my immersion.

[Captain_Obvious]

I much prefer voiced characters. I'm used to the paraphrasing, so I think it's fine too.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Simply having the PC voice be optional would make a great many people happy.

[topster88]

Personally I'd MUCH rather they scrapped that stupid dialog wheel where the VA doesn't say what you actually picked in favor of a non-voiced protagonist that actually fleshes out your dialog options.

ironically, dialog with the VA seemed way more shallow than dialog with a mute protagonist and a list of sentences purely because it was actual *dialogue* instead of punchy blurbs.

[PSRdirector]

I mostly felt I had little impact on shaping how the game turned out, If losing the voice and losing the "epic" story line will get more freedom of charecter Im for it. the family interactions were not that interesting to me, hell I felt family was more importent in the first games elf origin then in DA2. Still a better game then mass effect 2

[Medhia Nox]

No voice is fine for me - my imagination takes over and places a voice over the text.

Do you people who "must" have VO's not read any books? And if you do - what happens to the characters voices in the stories? Or perhaps they're all "Books on CD" with voices provided?

At any rate - I prefer silent characters

- So I can actually name them what I'd like.
- So the text doesn't deviate from the words being voiced.

Those are two major factors. Yes, the name thing is big for me. I feel it completely unnatural for someone to walk around calling me "Hawke" or "Shepard" - I've never seen anyone do that in real life ever.

IF they insist on this I'd rather they just pick a title - "Captain" "Commander" etc.

[Dianjabla]

Well how about I actually reply to the OP?

BP20125810 wrote...

From what I know, the voiced main charachter was one of the reason DA2 had only a human PC.  Would you be willing to ditch that for more replayability and customization in DA3, at the loss of not having a voiced protagonist?

Yes. Hell yes. While it's been noted that previously by David Gaider that DA2 was restricted to human only more for story line convenience etc than VA; I'd gladly give up cinematic conversations with the PC having VA for more alternate beginings, mutually exclusive story arcs based on said choices, either of character race, class or previous decisions. But then, those are things I like.

Ok tangent time for constructive criticism. I also like having all my options for exactly what my character's going to say presented to me in text. Having thought about why, I'd say it's partly because I'm a control freak, but also because I'm highly visually orientated. I simply don't remember or pick up on enough of what's said if it's in audio. Probably why I had such a hard time keeping track of what the heck was going on in DA2 - the journal had one line maybe two about any current quest. There is no conversation history. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd love to be. But I felt really kind of disconnected from what was going on in game because while I was told very consisely what to do, there was no explaination of why I should. I got to play DA2 in spans of a bout 40 mins at at time with maybe days inbetween. By the time I got to where I was going (after grinding through the inexplicable waves) I'd forgotten why I was there.

But I realise that there is a large portion of players who are more aurally orientated and having a VA works wonders for their immersion. So maybe much of my (and possibly others) antipathy for VA might be alleviated by adding more content into the Journal and the suggestions for dialogue wheel improvements I've already made. I guess there's not much as can be done if I just don't like the sound of the VA's voice, but that's my problem for being picky. There's plenty of cringe worthy material in my favourite all text dialogue no VA games as well.

David Gaider wrote...

This is not to say we
will only have human player characters from here on, simply that this is
how it worked out for DA2. If the assumption is that player voice
automatically means human PC, that is an extrapolation which is simply
untrue.

I really do hope that the assumption is proven false. I had a barrel of fun playing the spiteful CE hating on all humans and the peace maker dalish trying to reeducate them all...

[BP20125810]

Personally, I would be fine on either method. It's just the execution of said methods that matters in the long run.

[In Exile]

Medhia Nox wrote...

No voice is fine for me - my imagination takes over and places a voice over the text.

Do you people who "must" have VO's not read any books? And if you do - what happens to the characters voices in the stories? Or perhaps they're all "Books on CD" with voices provided?

The characters don't have voices. At least for me. I read with one tone. Didn't think other people actually did that.

Those are two major factors. Yes, the name thing is big for me. I feel it completely unnatural for someone to walk around calling me "Hawke" or "Shepard" - I've never seen anyone do that in real life ever.

IF they insist on this I'd rather they just pick a title - "Captain" "Commander" etc.

DA:O called you Cousland. And you had a fixed name in every Origin. Having a fixed name isn't a feature of VO or non-VO. They could as easily have used nicknames for Hawke (and brother, son, etc.).

[ozenglish]

JohnEpler wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I hate this argument so much. Two camps, both filled with elitism. Both have their ups and their downs. With a voiced you get tone and your character feels alive. With no voice you get more dialog and races. With a voice your character interacts more in conversation. With no voice you can create your own voice.

Sir, I don't know if you've just never been on the internet before, but I'm going to have to ask you to be significantly less reasonable.

Maybe you're new to these parts, I don't know, but by gods, I expect you to pick a position and defend it to the death.

Now that was awesome! Logic and reason on the chaotic medium of the internet? Whodathunkit? Then the lovely bit from John just put the icing on that gem right there. This was planned wasn't it? 

[ozenglish]

And as to the point of VA or non VA.

Believe me, I would love to see VA more often. I think it offers a chance to hear what is going on so that you can pay more attention to the what the other characters are doing while you are talking to them.

But you have to remember. If the game goes back to multiple races, story arch permitting, then this is going to be a giant amount of data. Now being a pc owner, I would not have a problem with that, as I have the space to do so. But those people who prefer to play on console for whatever reason, be it time/economic/enjoyment or other, this would not be logistically possible. We can't expect a company to put out a different game for each different medium of play, otherwise the forums would be full of people being angry that they actually did get a "lesser" product and can easily pin it on elitism.

So yes, I like my characters voiced, and unless as John Epler JOKED, that we had microphones that allowed us to voice the characters, I could NOT handle the staring warden. Maybe the warden was reading their options also, but, voicing adds inflection and emotion a bit easier... when acted properly.

EDIT: Just had a disturbing thought. We could always go back to games like Command and Conquer, and have live actors for the speaking and cinematics in front of CGI backgrounds, and then go back to animated characters for the combat etc... *shudders*

Modifié par ozenglish, 03 juin 2011 - 04:36 .

[Medhia Nox]

@In Exile = there's really nothing to discuss about the books part. I've never had a monotone voice when reading books. Females "sound" like females in my mind - males like males - and each one has differences depending on the way the text is written.

Concerning the second. DA: O did do it - and it's stupid (opinion) - but a VA game will, for the time being, have a set name you're called. Even "son" is foolish - do your parents walk around calling you "son" all the time?

In a silent game - a name can be easily scripted. The fact that they didn't do it in DA: O was a personal (bad - in my opinion) design choice.

Origins would have actually been easier - though still crappy - if they VAed it and just kept saying "Warden" cause at least that's a title. And a mix of "Warden" and "Cousland" would have at least been more consistent with how people might speak.

At any rate - it's just a matter of taste.

I find voice acting superfluous to the storytelling.

[In Exile]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@In Exile = there's really nothing to discuss about the books part. I've never had a monotone voice when reading books. Females "sound" like females in my mind - males like males - and each one has differences depending on the way the text is written.

I get that. If it counts for anything, I don't dream with sound (or colour, really). It's a weird a-sensory experience I have.

Concerning the second. DA: O did do it - and it's stupid (opinion) - but a VA game will, for the time being, have a set name you're called. Even "son" is foolish - do your parents walk around calling you "son" all the time?

They could just avoid refering to you by name at all. The thing is, sometimes you don't need a name substitute.

In a silent game - a name can be easily scripted. The fact that they didn't do it in DA: O was a personal (bad - in my opinion) design choice.

What do you mean scripted?

Origins would have actually been easier - though still crappy - if they VAed it and just kept saying "Warden" cause at least that's a title. And a mix of "Warden" and "Cousland" would have at least been more consistent with how people might speak.

It depends. No one would call someone Lawyer, though they might use Doctor. The problem is when they have Alistiar/Warden sections.

I find voice acting superfluous to the storytelling.

VO tends to go hand in hand with an active protagonist. I haven't ever been able to evaluate the two separately because games without VO always go for passive PCs.

[Xewaka]

In Exile wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...
In a silent game - a name can be easily scripted. The fact that they didn't do it in DA: O was a personal (bad - in my opinion) design choice.

What do you mean scripted?

CHARNAME.
To elaborate, when characters aren't voiced, you can simply have a flag in the text dialogue which is substitudes by your character's chosen name.

In Exile wrote...
VO tends to go hand in hand with an active protagonist. I haven't ever been able to evaluate the two separately because games without VO always go for passive PCs.

Old school scumm adventures disagree with this statement.

Modifié par Xewaka, 03 juin 2011 - 07:46 .

[wright1978]

Voiced main character for me everytime. Mute expressionless warden has curbed my desire for any repeated playthroughs of Origins. It just breaks the immersion for me.

[Absafraginlootly]

I always enjoyed origins and was neither bothered by the silence or expressionlesness of my PC, I just imagined the voice and expression just as I do with the emotions, personality and thoughts of my characters.

I was worried at first about the voice acting in dragon age 2 because when I did a second playthrough on mass effect I found the fact that my two different charactors sounded exactly the same jarring.

I found with the tone system that I quite enjoyed the voice acting. But I hated the paraphrasing. Most of the time it was ok, the short paraphrases combined with the tone got me through, but every now and then when I was choosing a choice dialogue option things would go awry. In act 3 when you talk to Isabela at the hanged man and she asks you if you remember what you said to her after the quanari incident for example, I chose the option "I Should Have Seen it Coming" or something to that affect, thinking my charactor will be all self blaming and say how she should of seen the arishoks actions coming or something. Instead she starts ripping into Isabela about how she never should have trusted her and how shes so horrible (I don't remember the exact words).

That was a serious "what?" moment for me, I had to reload. I also miss being able to look at all the dialogue options and carefully choose which one I wanted to say. So, yeah, I'm fine with either voiced or not voiced PC, but I want full dialogue options not blurbs I can misinterperet.

I also prefer multiple race options though I understand why this was not done in DA2, but maybe in future games? I know that if it turns out in DA3, if such a thing exists, that you can only play a human again I will hesitate to buy it. Maybe wait to see reviews, but certainly not pre order.

[Huntress]

Medhia Nox wrote...

No voice is fine for me - my imagination takes over and places a voice over the text.

Do you people who "must" have VO's not read any books? And if you do - what happens to the characters voices in the stories? Or perhaps they're all "Books on CD" with voices provided?

At any rate - I prefer silent characters

- So I can actually name them what I'd like.
- So the text doesn't deviate from the words being voiced.

Those are two major factors. Yes, the name thing is big for me. I feel it completely unnatural for someone to walk around calling me "Hawke" or "Shepard" - I've never seen anyone do that in real life ever.

IF they insist on this I'd rather they just pick a title - "Captain" "Commander" etc.

I read books yes, and in my books I see the characters SHOWING EMOTIONS, Like smiling, laughing, TALKING, and I can see their faces showing the emotions...still reading but it seems real because the writer is describing them to you, now lets go back to DAO, tell me when you saw the warden sad? 2 times maybe if you are Human noble? Reading about something is NOT the same as looking so your stupid point is flat dead.  am sure if DG made a book about my warden I'll see her face smiling, talking, crying, desmissing stupid ideas by waving her hand because, he will describe it and put little images in my head, but when I look at The warden none of that shows.

The warden adventure, story is great, but she/he can't  compare to Hawk, believe or not ( TO ME) hawk seems MORE human like, that the warden. I am sorry if you don't see it that way.
Oh and if you read book that describe a character without any emotions the only pictures you get in your head is " the warden staring" or a rock, take you're pic...
Do i like my wardens? OH Fck YEAH!, do I want them to act like Hawk? Oh yes! please?

Modifié par Huntress, 03 juin 2011 - 04:20 .

[FiachSidhe]

Medhia Nox wrote...
Do you people who "must" have VO's not read any books? And if you do - what happens to the characters voices in the stories? Or perhaps they're all "Books on CD" with voices provided?

WOW! Now that, is how you strawman. That's a quality job, I almost expected that line to come skipping onto my screen alongside a tin man, and lion.

Do YOU go to movies, expecting the main character's actor to remain silent, so you can imagine his voice, while the other actors speak? No? Of course you don't.

Switching back and forth between two types of narrative, rapidly, is annoying. It was acceptable back when technology prohibited it, but if you're going to have a fully voiced cast, large chunks of silence peppering conversations, is awkward.

To use your ridiculous books reference, do YOU switch back and forth, between books on tape, and reading yourself whenever the main character is speaking?

Yes, I've read plenty of books, and I've listened to a few on CD as well, when the library didn't have the book in. But books don't have fully voiced casts, EVER No one expects them to and if somehow they did, every character would have one.

Modifié par FiachSidhe, 03 juin 2011 - 05:27 .

[erynnar]

In Exile wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@In Exile = there's really nothing to discuss about the books part. I've never had a monotone voice when reading books. Females "sound" like females in my mind - males like males - and each one has differences depending on the way the text is written.

I get that. If it counts for anything, I don't dream with sound (or colour, really). It's a weird a-sensory experience I have.

Concerning the second. DA: O did do it - and it's stupid (opinion) - but a VA game will, for the time being, have a set name you're called. Even "son" is foolish - do your parents walk around calling you "son" all the time?

They could just avoid refering to you by name at all. The thing is, sometimes you don't need a name substitute.

In a silent game - a name can be easily scripted. The fact that they didn't do it in DA: O was a personal (bad - in my opinion) design choice.

What do you mean scripted?

Origins would have actually been easier - though still crappy - if they VAed it and just kept saying "Warden" cause at least that's a title. And a mix of "Warden" and "Cousland" would have at least been more consistent with how people might speak.

It depends. No one would call someone Lawyer, though they might use Doctor. The problem is when they have Alistiar/Warden sections.

I find voice acting superfluous to the storytelling.

VO tends to go hand in hand with an active protagonist. I haven't ever been able to evaluate the two separately because games without VO always go for passive PCs.

Wow! No dreaming in color and no sound? I dream in full color and full audio. I thought everyone dreamed in color until a friend told me she dreams in black and white.  The sound thing, never occurred to me either. How cool we're such different dreamers. No offense, but I would hate to dream that way. I love to dream.

I also have voices in my head when reading, different sounding. My only crime is to not do accents...Harry Potter sounded like a ten year old boy in my head, but I forgot to give him a Brit accent, and I love accents. ROFL!

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Voiceless player characters are dead.

They are dead dead dead dead dead.

No one cares about how they made videogames in 1990 when you were a kid and the world was wonderful. Voiceless player characters are dead.

A voiced character is easier to connect with, more cinematic, and way more fun.

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 03 juin 2011 - 05:39 .