650 réponses à ce sujet

[happy_daiz]

Zem_ wrote...

People said the same thing about 3D graphics when NWN came out.  How far back should we turn the clock?  You think those games would sell well today?

Not likely.

Going back to text would be exactly that. Going back.

[bEVEsthda]

Quite frankly, I've never understood the point of a pre-recorded, voiced protagonist.
I'm totally clueless why people think this is so cool.
I mean, geez, what is it that gives you such a positive and thrilling experience from this fluff?
I don't get it. There's zero worth in it for me. A total waste.
No, it's worse, because it robs me of speaking for my char, robs me of selecting/imagining the voice of my char myself.

I'm also not understanding why some people think a pre-recorded voice represents moving "forward".
What's forward about it? Edison recorded voices way back.
A recorded voice is as much "forward" as building a game with movie-shots. Thank god totally stone dead today, even if there's way to much story-telling with generated CG movies. Original 'Half Life' didn't need a single second of such. It was all seemless inside the 3D game.

Now, the day when you can synthetisize a voice, and that voice follows a scripted intonation, which may have been created through acting, but is in otherways a generated voice which can be configurated in color and pitch, then you can talk about moving forward.

[Captain_Obvious]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Quite frankly, I've never understood the point of a pre-recorded, voiced protagonist.
I'm totally clueless why people think this is so cool.
I mean, geez, what is it that gives you such a positive and thrilling experience from this fluff?
I don't get it. There's zero worth in it for me. A total waste.
No, it's worse, because it robs me of speaking for my char, robs me of selecting/imagining the voice of my char myself.

I'm also not understanding why some people think a pre-recorded voice represents moving "forward".
What's forward about it? Edison recorded voices way back.
A recorded voice is as much "forward" as building a game with movie-shots. Thank god totally stone dead today, even if there's way to much story-telling with generated CG movies. Original 'Half Life' didn't need a single second of such. It was all seemless inside the 3D game.

Now, the day when you can synthetisize a voice, and that voice follows a scripted intonation, which may have been created through acting, but is in otherways a generated voice which can be configurated in color and pitch, then you can talk about moving forward.

Quite frankly, I've never understood why certain gamers feel the need to belittle others for no reason.  I don't get it.  It's just not worthwhile, and it's a total waste of time.  No, it's worse, because it robs me of the ability to dicuss things and share the joy of gaming with my fellow gamers.  It makes new gamers feel unwelcome, and it makes veteran gamers like myself disappointed that this is how they end up being represented in the gaming community. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Voiceless player characters are dead.

They are dead dead dead dead dead.

No one cares about how they made videogames in 1990 when you were a kid and the world was wonderful. Voiceless player characters are dead.

A voiced character is easier to connect with, more cinematic, and way more fun.

I  think you've directly contradicted yourself, there.  More cinematic is the opposite of more fun.

And by 1990, games had already started to become too linear and directed in their gameplay.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

Quite frankly, I've never understood the point of a pre-recorded, voiced protagonist.
I'm totally clueless why people think this is so cool.
I mean, geez, what is it that gives you such a positive and thrilling experience from this fluff?
I don't get it. There's zero worth in it for me. A total waste.
No, it's worse, because it robs me of speaking for my char, robs me of selecting/imagining the voice of my char myself.

I'm also not understanding why some people think a pre-recorded voice represents moving "forward".
What's forward about it? Edison recorded voices way back.
A recorded voice is as much "forward" as building a game with movie-shots. Thank god totally stone dead today, even if there's way to much story-telling with generated CG movies. Original 'Half Life' didn't need a single second of such. It was all seemless inside the 3D game.

Now, the day when you can synthetisize a voice, and that voice follows a scripted intonation, which may have been created through acting, but is in otherways a generated voice which can be configurated in color and pitch, then you can talk about moving forward.

Quite frankly, I've never understood why certain gamers feel the need to belittle others for no reason.  I don't get it.  It's just not worthwhile, and it's a total waste of time.  No, it's worse, because it robs me of the ability to dicuss things and share the joy of gaming with my fellow gamers.  It makes new gamers feel unwelcome, and it makes veteran gamers like myself disappointed that this is how they end up being represented in the gaming community. 

I hope you're not suggesting that bEVEsthda was belittling anyone, because I don't really see it.  There was that one "fluff" comment at the beginning, but the rest of the post was substantive and relevant.

[maxernst]

I have to agree with Sylvius that cinematic is not something I consider a positive in games. I want to play games, not watch them. I don't mind the voicing as much as I mind the dialogue wheel (and at seems like an easy fix would be to have an option to turn the voice off), but I disagree that a voiced character helps to give more connection to the player. It could, but depending on how you respond to that particular voice actor, it could have a completely opposite effect, just like you could have a negative reaction to any other predefined characteristic of a protagonist. And such responses are going to be very personal--it's not a question of the voice actor being "bad"

Geralt is not a badly written character nor is the Witcher a bad game, but I abandoned it and have no interest in playing the sequel (or reading the books for that matter), because I just don't like him and I don't care about him. And I'd guess at least some of my dislike comes from his vocal presentation because it doesn't allow me any "wiggle room" in interpreting how he behaves to make him somebody with whom I can empathize.

[Mick301981]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Voiceless player characters are dead.

They are dead dead dead dead dead.

No one cares about how they made videogames in 1990 when you were a kid and the world was wonderful. Voiceless player characters are dead.

A voiced character is easier to connect with, more cinematic, and way more fun.

I  think you've directly contradicted yourself, there.  More cinematic is the opposite of more fun.

And by 1990, games had already started to become too linear and directed in their gameplay.

Hmm... 1990.

Ah, Super Mario 3.  First time I laid eyes on Bowser, I completely spazzed out and jumped Mario into the lava.

Good times.

Modifié par Mick301981, 08 juin 2011 - 01:44 .

[Mick301981]

Oops.. dbl post:unsure:

Modifié par Mick301981, 08 juin 2011 - 01:49 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Mick301981 wrote...

Hmm... 1990.

Ah, Super Mario 3.  First time I laid eyes on Bowser, I completely spazzed out and jumped Mario into the lava.

Good times.

I have never owned a Nintendo product.  I don't really know what you're talking about.

I remember 1990 primarily for the release of Ultima VI, the first Ultima game that wasn't tile-based.

That is not to say games have been going downhill since 1990.  1991 saw the release of Civilization, and 1992 introduced 3D environments to mainstream gaming - most notably with Ultima Underworld as a 3D RPG, and Wolfenstein 3D as FPS.

[Zeevico]

Zem_ wrote...

Zeevico wrote...

Ditch PC voicing. Ditch voicing every character in the game. Use voicing for key scenes and dialogue only. And then we'll have a bigger, longer, deeper, more complex and better game for it. It's not that I dislike voicing, cinematics, or a voiced PC as such. They do add something to the game. But they're so expensive! They cut into the game budget a lot, which means there's less time and money to make a game as a result. I'd rather have more game and less voicing. Just imo.

People said the same thing about 3D graphics when NWN came out.  How far back should we turn the clock?  You think those games would sell well today?

Certainly. "Game does not feature enough cinematics" is like saying "game is just too fun." But you may disagree and others might too. You've got a right to. Until it's tested I don't know what the outcome will be.

As to NWN OC:
I didn't play it thinking "wow, this could do with more voicing and awkward pixels gyrating to bad music or ordering invisible drinks."  Or: "Wow, this could do awkwardly animated lip synching."

I played it thinking "wow, you really gimped on the companions and the OC combat couild be better, why'd you gimp on those things?"

So it's a cost/benefit exercise. If it means investing less in cinematics than before, yes, I'll take a better developed game.

Modifié par Zeevico, 08 juin 2011 - 10:26 .

[lobi]

Because of commercial concerns the game industry is over populated with dick heads from movie industry who want to make games more like movies. Hooray for mindless entertainment.

[hobbit of the shire]

I'd rather not have a voiced protagonist since the voice of the character is as personal as the face, and which we all know (com'on, admit it) we spent an insane amount of time customizing. Even in previous games where the voice only came out in battlecries or 2 or 3 word blips, sometimes I kicked myself for choosing the "wrong" voice early on and got stuck with something incompatible. And having a choice of a few voices is too costly and we probably still won't be happy. One of the messages above suggesting an audio editor sounds interesting (one voice-actor, but able to change, inflect, modify the voice). Does such software exist that can be used in a game, though?

All voice-acting aside, what I want is more dialogue. Half of the time I have no idea what Hawke is going to say and it usually comes out wrong. Adding more (non-voiced) dialogue should be simple (compared to say, another cinematic or more voice acting).

[BP20125810]

hobbit_of_the_shire wrote...

I'd rather not have a voiced protagonist since the voice of the character is as personal as the face, and which we all know (com'on, admit it) we spent an insane amount of time customizing. Even in previous games where the voice only came out in battlecries or 2 or 3 word blips, sometimes I kicked myself for choosing the "wrong" voice early on and got stuck with something incompatible. And having a choice of a few voices is too costly and we probably still won't be happy. One of the messages above suggesting an audio editor sounds interesting (one voice-actor, but able to change, inflect, modify the voice). Does such software exist that can be used in a game, though?

All voice-acting aside, what I want is more dialogue. Half of the time I have no idea what Hawke is going to say and it usually comes out wrong. Adding more (non-voiced) dialogue should be simple (compared to say, another cinematic or more voice acting).

But they still have to record NPC voices.  Take those out of the equation and you have WOW. 

[osmiumskin]

Yes.

[Zem_]

lobi wrote...

Because of commercial concerns the game industry is over populated with dick heads from movie industry who want to make games more like movies. Hooray for mindless entertainment.

Credit where it is due.  The industry does not lead.  It follows.  When something succeeds, it is copied.  When it fails, it is discarded.  We have the kinds of games we have today not because of the people who make them but because of the people who BUY them.  There is no silent majority of traditional CRPG fans demanding LESS cinematic experiences.

Get over it.

Modifié par Zem_, 10 juin 2011 - 04:29 .

[MonkeyLungs]

Zem_ wrote...

lobi wrote...

Because of commercial concerns the game industry is over populated with dick heads from movie industry who want to make games more like movies. Hooray for mindless entertainment.

Credit where it is due.  The industry does not lead.  It follows.  When something succeeds, it is copied.  When it fails, it is discarded.  We have the kinds of games we have today not because of the people who make them but because of the people who BUY them.  There is no silent majority of traditional CRPG fans demanding LESS cinematic experiences.

Get over it.

That's why I don't like Newfans.

Having the voiced protag is like hearing yourself talk OR like playing someone elses character. It is LESS fun for me. But the masses have indeed spoken and voiced protagonist is here to stay.

[Zem_]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

That's why I don't like Newfans.

It's got nothing to do with new fans.  I've been a fan of Bioware games since Baldur's Gate and don't really have a problem with voiced protagonists.  Don't have a big problem with un-voiced either, to be fair.   Each has pros/cons in my book.

Having the voiced protag is like hearing yourself talk

What an odd comment.  I always hear myself talk.  Don't you?

OR like playing someone elses character. It is LESS fun for me. But the masses have indeed spoken and voiced protagonist is here to stay.

You're always playing someone else's character.  Did YOU decide to become a Warden in DAO?  No.  It was decided for you.  I was allowed to choose from a set of six different character origins, which admittedly is more than DA2 but none of them are my characters.  I didn't define their backgrounds, their family situation, pets, nothing.  I got to pick a first name.   I find the whole idea that an unvoiced protagonist is ever so much more customizable to be a ridiculous exaggeration.  But that's just my opinion.  It doesn't take anything away for me because I am not under the illusion that this is my character to begin with.  The DM has slid a character sheet across the table and said, "Here... play this one.  I'll let you fill in the first name and class."

[Tirfan]

Okay, I did metagame a bit when creating my second and most loved warden, I know what choices I wanted to make, but, I did actually write a few pages of history for him, so he most definately was MY character, he had a backstory (which, admittedly, exists only in my head and those few pages. which I had to modify a bit when it conflicted with what options I had when someone asked me of my past)

And as far as voice goes, I didn't pay much attention to the battlecry voices, my Warden had his own voice in which I read the lines, he had his own body language. Of course, I didn't see/hear them in the actual game but that didn't matter to me, I could get into the character well enough to actually just imagine them, I couldn't be bothered that on the screen he just stood there.

[maxernst]

Zem_ wrote...

lobi wrote...

Because of commercial concerns the game industry is over populated with dick heads from movie industry who want to make games more like movies. Hooray for mindless entertainment.

Credit where it is due.  The industry does not lead.  It follows.  When something succeeds, it is copied.  When it fails, it is discarded.  We have the kinds of games we have today not because of the people who make them but because of the people who BUY them.  There is no silent majority of traditional CRPG fans demanding LESS cinematic experiences.

Get over it.

So they discrded silent protagonists because games like Dragon Age: Origins, Oblivion, the Fallout games, and Bioshock have been such commercial disasters?  And aside from DA:O, none of those games could be described as particularly cinematic.

Modifié par maxernst, 10 juin 2011 - 11:06 .

[erynnar]

maxernst wrote...

Zem_ wrote...

lobi wrote...

Because of commercial concerns the game industry is over populated with dick heads from movie industry who want to make games more like movies. Hooray for mindless entertainment.

Credit where it is due.  The industry does not lead.  It follows.  When something succeeds, it is copied.  When it fails, it is discarded.  We have the kinds of games we have today not because of the people who make them but because of the people who BUY them.  There is no silent majority of traditional CRPG fans demanding LESS cinematic experiences.

Get over it.

So they discrded silent protagonists because games like Dragon Age: Origins, Oblivion, the Fallout games, and Bioshock have been such commercial disasters?  And aside from DA:O, none of those games could be described as particularly cinematic.

Yep, such commercial failures, all of them. ROFL! Yeah the industry follows my ass. DAO sold very well and still does sell. But money is addictive like crack, apparently, and there is never enough. So they looked to a crowd of gamers and tried to make an arcade, anime, action, hack n' slash, ME medievval, lite RPG hybrid which...yeah, last time I saw the sales for it, not so great.

All those shiney millions of players who like CoD, or JRPGs, or MMOs. It was an experiment. We get DA3 so it was fruitful enough. How successful only sales for DA3 will tell. If the sales of DA2 are any indication, I don't think there will be the large bump from pre-orders. But, hey, I could be wrong. Maybe all those shiney happy millions who don't tend to like cRPGs will actually manifest for DA3. Dunno, no magic crystal ball or Magic 8-Ball here.

[Barkortran]

I think there shouldnt be a voiced protagonist not because of the race restriction but because I WANT TO BE THE HERO i am not hawke. the way i responded emotionally and the way hawke responded were completely different. With a silent character i add my own emotional tone and my character becomes exactly like me (or at least the person i am pretending to be). In DA:O i was able to completely immerse myself my decisions mattered my characters became real to me.

I am a guy and halfway through my female playthrough i stopped playing and found myself wishing an hour later that Alistair would take me shoe shopping. As my dwarf i was doing redcliff at night when i heard a bird. I instantly thought that redcliff didn't have birds because i hadn't heard any before and move my party somewhere where they can defend from all angles only to notice later its 5 oclock in the morning.

In DA2 i would just start to get immersed when i would pick a charming option to comfort bethany or someone expecting it to be suave and compassionate and then hawke would make a weak attempt at a joke to remind me i wasn't him and we react differently. also hawke dosent sound like me. and emotions are affected by our past so i couldn't put my own back story onto hawke.

My heroic dwarf castless in origins would say every line with the earnest expectation of a child because his sister told him so many stories about heroes growing up and he was ecstatic to be one himself so i created a deeper character even if i chose the exact same lines as another character I cannot do this with hawke not by a long shot.

[Barkortran]

And one more thing i want more dialogue options GET RID OF THE WHEEL im just sayiing it in any froum i come to NO MORE WHEEL

[Funkcase]

Tbh, in dragon age 3 I would like to continue to play as Hawke, I loved femHawks voice! I would hate to think that DA2's lame ending is the end of Hawke, although I want to see what happens with my Warden too.

[MonkeyLungs]

Zem_ wrote...

Having the voiced protag is like hearing yourself talk

What an odd comment.  I always hear myself talk.  Don't you?

Probably should have said 'like watching yourself talk' ... since the game likes to show me a cutscene of the hero's face all the time.